Top worse units for deer AZ ?

[quest]

I will start the list UNIT 10. Whats on your list? quest

 

[YukonDall]

UNIT 9 SHOULD BE WAY BETTER THAN IT IS ALSO.......YD.

 

[nonet]

I remember bowhunting 5 a and b about 10 yrs ago and seeing good numbers of deer and even a few really good bucks 160+.. Now if you hunt there you are lucky to see a few deer and maybe a forkie. The list of crapy deer units is a long one so this could be interesting to see peoples opinions.....I live in 19a. Talk to some of the ranchers and older guys and they will tell you 19a used to be a great place to take a 30 inch buck... not anymore... 20c.... used to be great for deer... not anymore..


This list WILL be a long one...

 

[quest]

nonet ya I cant wait to see the list. Unit 10 had a 9 percent harvest last year, I believe. quest

 

[goinhuntn]

Unit 16a is a rough one. Hunted it hard in 2010 for 7 days and didn't even see a doe let alone a buck. I know they are in there, but it is some tough hunting

 

[creed]

I think many of the mule deer units are in not to good of shape. I've been hunting the 40 units for 45 years and they are nothing now compared to what they were just 15 years ago.

We used to have 5-8 tags in our camp during the general hunt and be packing up and going home Sunday morning of opening weekend with all tags filled. Out of that many tags they are lucky to fill half of them now.

I don't know what the worse unit is since I hunt only a handful of units.

 

[quest]

creed I think unit 10 got to be number 1. quest

 

[DanBnAZ]

I think there could be a 30-way tie for the worst unit for mule deer in AZ. In the time it takes to reply to this thread, one could send an email to [email protected] stating how you feel and help get the ball rolling to improve things. These threads are good for social interaction but have no bearing on how wildlife is managed. Now is the time to act because the guidelines are open for comments. Otherwise it will be the same for another two years.

Send those emails if you're concerned and would like to see changes!

 

[quest]

DanBnAZ Ive already sent my comments off. I believe its all about money money talks everything else walks you know the saying. quest

 

[DanBnAZ]

Quest, thanks for sending your comments in. If changes are made in the right direction, like a few others you can know you were part of the solution.

Sure money has alot to do with it, they have a department to run and most of us know that. Whether or not we as hunters are getting our money's worth is personal opinion. The department has stretched itself pretty thin and gotten side-tracked with alot of non-game efforts. However, to their credit they didn't have to call the emergency meeting to cancel all the pronghorn tags in 19B and lose all that revenue when the closing of the CV was out of their control.

We just need to keep the pressure on them and this issue will have to be addressed.

 

[quest]

DanBnAZ I think we should be focused on hunter success in our efforts to get the deer herds up. Once a unit drops below 20% (hunter success) there needs to be some action taken by fish and game for the next years hunt such as a reduction in tags. Those units with less than 20% success are not going to have quantity or quality. My question is how do we get Game and Fish to reduce those tags in those units? The loss of revenue is not going to set well with them. I would compromise by raising our deer tags up $1.00 in hopes that would offset the loss of income that year.
I would like to see the Game and fish take a unit like 18b and make it a quality unit. Lets take some of that pressure off of the strip. I'm not saying 18b is in the same class as 13b or 12aw but it would be nice to have a unit where you could harvest a good bucks in the 26 to 28 inch range and be close to the center of the state. These are just my thoughts. I wish Don Martin would post on here. I would like to hear what he has to say.

quest

 

[Buckhunter1]

All sub units of 15, more sheep than deer. You could raise a lot more revenue for the management of the deer if you charged residents the same fees as non residents... Just a thought. BH1

 

[muleymaniac]

LAST EDITED ON May-08-11 AT 08:30PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-08-11 AT 08:29?PM (MST)

raise the fees to non resident fees ---are you out of your mind??? - we as hunters in the state of AZ can barely afford the high costs now - we are one if not the highest costs for resident tags

 

[quest]

I wish we could let these units with low success rates take a brake. We need to boycott these units.. quest

 

[ElmerFudd]

I hunted late elk in one of these "top worst" units last fall. Yes, deer season was closed and rutting starting...and did not see many deer. But I saw three really nice big mature bucks (170-180ish) in about a week of time out. Pretty good compared to what I see here in CA in non migratory simmilar country... Yes, I agree few deer there and management could be better. But it could be worse.....

 

[quest]

With 750 tags unit 10 had a 9% success rate. I don't think it can get any worse. quest

 

[DanBnAZ]

Quest, you may want to take a look at the thread titled "south of the ditch deer herds..." if you haven't already. It may shed a little light on how to go about getting things changed. If you would like to see tag numbers reduced, the guidelines need to be changed. For example, raise the buck:doe guidelines and/or increase the success guidelines. According to game branch, the state-wide success is on par and buck:doe is increasing and all of this concern over mule deer is just peoples personal perception. I do notice that alot of these units mentioned are in region III and I'm not sure it falls in this state-wide "everything's fine" status.

In a perfect world we could boycott these units and send a "don't bite the hand that feeds you" message but I don't think there's that much unity among sportsmen these days.

 

[ElmerFudd]

You are right, they need to cut tags.


But as far as worse, the zones I'm talking about are 2000 tags @ 6.2% and 8000 tags @ 5.8%. The 2000 tag unit has roughly the same size hunting area. They are wors. I was thinking your place looked pretty good in comparison. It really sucks here!

 

[azbackwoods]

Unit 1 I hunted in the wilderness area hiked in ever day of the 5 days I got to hunt, never saw any other hunters and only saw does as I was driving out in the dark. I have never in all my years of deer hunting not seen at least a buck. They need to close the units for 3 or 4 years then open them to archery, then muzzleloader then rifle. We need to get the deer herds back to where they were at, at least 10 years ago. But that goes back to the hunters also. It doesn't mean just because you drew the tag that you have to go hunting. Draw the tags then not go, they would still make their money We would not kill any deer. Go figure!! I know how hard it is not to go hunting when you have a tag burning a hole in your pocket. Doesn't mean you can't go camping and do your own deer survey.

 

[quest]

Lets try not putting in for those units with less than 20% success. Game and Fish will listen if the money not coming in. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying there not trying. What I am saying is money is tight and I don't believe they can afford to cut tags right now its a catch 22. So what do you think?

 

[nonet]

Dan, I can appreciate you wanting us to be letter writers, and I have sent mine in by the way, but it falls on deaf ears. It is a song and dance by AZGFD to make us think we are involved with the process. They are money driven and do not care about managing animals, they manage people and money.

I have been to meetings and stood up to voice my concern and also to present ideas to correct them about various issues i am concerned with. The vast majority of the time I am told that what I would like to talk about is not on the adjenda and that they will not comment. Some of my ideas I think are really good and they still wouldnt loose revenue.... It is a song and dance!!! Healthy robust herds are NOT a priority with them. In some isoloated areas yes but in most cases they couldn't care less.

I am friends with one WM in a desert unit. His survey data tells him that he should drastically cut deer tags in his unit. He presents his data and his recomendations at his meetings. He is then told to actually raise tags in his unit by his boss and thats what happens... CRAZY!!! Its money!!! Plain and simple!!

I really think that there are a bunch of really good WMs out there that care a lot about their units but have thier hands tied by a agency that has lost sight of their intended purpose... Manage animals and the habitat they live in to create healthy robust populations...

Sorry to rant but they (the dept) are a frustrating bunch.....

 

[ElmerFudd]

So, if it's about money, how many would be willing to pay the extra price per tag to reduce the tag quota by an equivilant amount? How else could they generate the money besides raising tag and license fees? What services could they cut? Anyone willing to raise the current 10% nonresident cap to help keep tag prices low?

When it's about money, there are tough choices...

 

[akamissedagain]

what I don't get is why the game and fish has to be the only self sustaining government agency in the country.



>So, if it's about money, how
>many would be willing to
>pay the extra price per
>tag to reduce the tag
>quota by an equivilant amount?
>How else could they generate
>the money besides raising tag
>and license fees? What services
>could they cut? Anyone willing
>to raise the current 10%
>nonresident cap to help keep
>tag prices low?
>
>When it's about money, there are
>tough choices...

 

[DanBnAZ]

nonet, let me start by saying thank you for sending your letter. Every little bit helps! I can understand your frustration from past experience. I've been getting the "run around" too. The reason I'm pushing this now is I think there are a lot of people who feel like we do and I believe the current commission is one of the best we've had in quite some time. We all need to turn out in force at these meetings next month and put the pressure on! I had a feeling when all this started a few years ago with our deer herds that the bottom would fall out eventually. I think it's starting to fall!

 

[quest]

nonet I agree with you money is the problem here. I don't thing Game and fish are greedy they need the revenue and so our deer herds suffer. I too have met WM they wish they could change the situation. I will keep trying to go to these meetings and send in my comments. quest

 

[Ed]

Quest, I used to hunt 17A pretty consistently from the early 80's through late 90's and a little through 2004. I don't hunt it anymore. I hunted when there was an early hunt and late hunt. I hunted when there were 900 permits (17A is small) and I hunted when there were 350 permits. The quality and number of bucks was consistently better when there were a ton of permits and worse when there weren't many permits. The problem is there just aren't as many deer out there anymore and I don't think it has anything to do with being overhunted. The browse is terrible compared to what it was in the mid 80's when there was a bunch of permits and a bunch of good bucks. The consistent moisture just hasn't been there for twenty years and the animals suffer.

I applaud you for what you're doing but none of it matters until we get 3-5 years, maybe more of consistent good moisture across the state to help the deer herds.

 

[ArizonaStripBucks]

I agree with Ed on the fact that the biggest contributing factors to the declining deer numbers is the long term drought and encroachment of elk in many of the central arizona units. The growing elk herds only compound the drought situation leading to poorer and poorer feed conditions for the deer. Couple that with a predator problem that has a very limited number of ways of controlling it and you have the perfect recipe for a vanishing mule deer herd. There is no doubt that that the AZGFD is a revenue driven money making machine that has little regard for overall herd health and the utmost regard for making as much $$ as possible. But....It is also true that the current commission is the best we have had in years. Not perfect by any means but the best in a long while. As more and more hunters speak up as each year goes by I think we can in fact reverse some of the outlandish tag numbers in most all the units. Just keep writing letters. e-mailing and showing up. It is the only thing we can do...



www.arizonastripbucks.com

 

[ElmerFudd]

LAST EDITED ON May-10-11 AT 06:40PM (MST)[p]AZ is the least pimped out to money of any of the western states. It is the most for the poor local of any. Low nonresident tag cap, no landowner tags, few auction/raffle tags. In order to keep prices low, they must sell more tags..Totally based on low priced high participation. Nobel sand good, but comes with a price. There is no free lunch. Services can't be cut much, so the question is how to generate more money. Tapping general funds, raising tag prices, upping nonresident (who pay 10X + more) participation, more auction/landowner/raffle tags...I'm sure there are more ways, but theese come to mind. Raising tag prices across the board seems the most obvious way to get tag reductions while keeping needed service....

Maybe a "Quality" deer tag price that is high enough to make up for reduced tag numbers and revenue in quality units?

 

[quest]

The drought doesn't help matters. Game and Fish is stuck in a hard spot with less deer and they need the revenue. I agree with everyone, we should speak up and put in our two cents for what it's worth. I still think we need to boycott the units with less than 20% harvest rate! Maddglasser tried to organize a association primarily to help the desert mule deer herds but found himself running into many obstacles. Wish there was more hunters around like him being willing to step up, going the extra mile to make a difference!

quest

 

[Ed]

I've been boycotting units with less than 20% success for several years. I hunt coues .....

 

[quest]

sounds good Ed.