Turrets vs Traditional Hunting

A

arroyobuck

Member
Messages
93
I would like to start a discussion on hunting scope preferences. I'm not talking about sitting at the bench, but rather out in the field. It seems like there is a huge fad these days of ranging the game, checking weather conditions and then spinning turrets based on a trajectory table. What a PITA that seems. I would be PO if I wasn't able to get a shot off while I was messing with all of that stuff. I am from the old school where you sight in 2-3 inches high at 100 and you are pretty much covered for most situations (without having to jack with anything). With that sight in, you are good aiming at hide out to 400. It's hard to judge the quality of animal out past 400, but if you want to go out past there you know how much "daylight" to hold over out to about 500.

I would rather spend the few seconds I have setting up a good rest. Keep it simple. I just mounted a 2x7 with LR recticles on a rifle and shot it out to 550 yards. Pretty impressive... it's fast, light, slim, and has nothing that needs adjusting.

What am I missing? Have any of you lost any shots because of not getting the stuff set up in time?
 
It's actually pretty simple in that people are using them now so they can shoot out to 1000+ yards with turret adjustments and hold the reticle right on the animal, just like they are shooting at a paper target or gong during range time. If a person has the equipment and time to do all the practice it takes to make the shot is one thing. My fear that has been expressed before is that those who see these guys on TV doing it won't realize what it really takes and will be banging away at live critters instead of staying on a range where paper doesn't bleed and run away when you miss the ten ring!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-12 AT 12:36PM (MST)[p]Ok Ill bite.

Im not sure what caliber you are shooting but wondering how well you can shoot at 500 while knowing how much "daylight" to hold. Have you ever shot on paper at 500 yards trying to hold daylight? With a LR reticle its a whole different game as you at least have a reference dot or line to help.

I personally shoot turrets and love them. I like having the ability to aim exactly where I want and just turn the turret. I can adjust for any bullet combo and such factors as altitude or temp. Also I can dial in for wind.

Have I ever lost a shot because of the stuff setup? Nope I havent encountered this yet. I have my drop chart pretty well memorized but it only takes me a few seconds to look at it on my stock and turn my turret. If a few seconds makes me miss a shot then the shot opportunity really wasnt all that good at the longer range anyway. I won't take a hurried shot at longer range and have never really encountered a situation where I needed to. Most of the time the animals are feeding or unaware of my presence.
 
Cahunter805

"Im not sure what caliber you are shooting"

IMO it doesn't really make that much of a difference out to 500, most flat shooting popular big game hunting cartidges are all relatively close.

"Have you ever shot on paper at 500 yards trying to hold daylight?"

Yes, I have practiced holdover out to and beyond 500 yards with my rifles over the years and agree it is not a " guarantee" situation but it is doable and has been done (if you are unable to get closer).

"With a LR reticle its a whole different game as you at least have a reference dot or line to help."

Agree. It seems this would be the preferred scope unless you needed to go out past 500 yds. You have less moving parts to fail,less workload, and more time to get the shot off.


Don't get me wrong, I am interested in learning about long range hunting techniques and I am by no means saying I am against it. It just seems like it has more margin of error (in many different ways) than stalking within 500 yds or closer. If it's just the sport of shooting long distances and not placing as much emphasis on the quality/size of the rack, then that's cool too.

How do you judge the animal out past 500-600 yards? Seems like lot's of risk for ground shrinkage.
 
I agree with you that most average hunting situtations the basic popular big game rifles are fine and will get the job done. A perfect example is a 257wby. Also the average hunter doesnt seem to shoot more than 300 yards and 500 yards is considered long range by many. Also many hunters hit the range a few weeks before season and shot a few shots at 100 yards making sure its 3" high and they are good to go, which for most normal situtations works. Most never shoot say 400 and check the actual drop or group size of the bullets they are shooting.

Here is something to think about.
30-06 shooting 165gr Nosler accubond @2850FPS
100 2.8
150 3.2
200 2.3
250 -0.0
300 -3.8
350 -9.1
400 -16.2
450 -25.0
500 -35.8
550 -48.7
600 -63.9

If a deer was say 475 yards how would you know how much "daylight" to hold. I understand a deers body is a somewhat big target but when I shoot that far I want to ensure I am making a good hit to the vitals not just in the body per say. Also consider the difference in inches from 450 to 500. How do you judge how much daylight 10" is at 500 yards?

I judge game at that distance with my binoculars and spotting scope. Swarovski 10x42SLC binos and a swarovski 20-60x65HD spotting scope.
Obviously there are certain situations that lend themself to a more long range style than others. Antelope hunting is one that comes to mind very quickly.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-12 AT 05:43PM (MST)[p]Most of my guns, (varmint & big game), have the Leupold varmint reticle. Hold over is pretty simple out to 500 or 600 depending on zero range. You also you have windage holds.
I have used turrets also, especially for over 500.
If I am not going to shoot over 500 I use the varmint reticle, over that a turret is the way to go.

7377varmint-hunters.jpg
 
Bunch of mall snipers.... My gramps did it with an old 4x weaver and a pendelton shirt and so do I. Put your purses down.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-12 AT 11:45PM (MST)[p]
But you tell that to kids today and they don't believe you.
 
In the immortal words of Dirty Harry, "A mans got to know his limitations."
If you can't, don't, its as simple as that, but don't b!tch about those of us that can.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-12 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]I'm willing to bet most of those that "think" they can really cant. Carry on with the wounding and gut shooting though.

P.S.. I wonder how many "long range" guys also drive big jacked up trucks?
 
And grandad didn't wound any animals with his 4 power scope either did he? The self rightiousness of internet jockeys amazes me. Lets go shootin sometime maybe you can show me how its done with your 4 power scope and Pendleton shirt.

PS I drive an F150, unlifted, with a sleeper on the back, my kids call it an old mans truck.
 
LOL, You see the title of this thread? I posted my opinion and then you personally called me out cause it did'nt agree with your agenda. Sounds like a guilty concious. I'm willing to bet the old timers were and always will be better marksmen than us no matter what new fangled technology you got. It was a way of life not a game.

P.S.. Dirty Harry is a Liberal, tree hugging, Obama supporter.
 
>And grandad didn't wound any animals
>with his 4 power scope
>either did he? The self
>rightiousness of internet jockeys amazes
>me. Lets go shootin sometime
>maybe you can show me
>how its done with your
>4 power scope and Pendleton
>shirt.


Oh yeah, remember your dumbazz post above about knowin limitations and such? I do know what I can do with my rig and got no problem provin it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-12 AT 12:51PM (MST)[p]
This battle will never be won which is fine by me. To each person his own. I personally like to take advantage of the new advances in modern technology. Some people choose not to and that is fine by me. I also like to bed all my rifles, lap the rings, build handloads and torque all my rifles to spec. Some people don't do any of that and yes still take game. More power to them. Its their choice and thats fine.

I personally practice out to 1000 at least once a month if not more. I think more important than the range is practicing proper shooting techniques and more time behind the rifle builds confidence for me. I have found that my groups have improved greatly even at short range. For me its all about practice.
 
I'm willing to believe that for alot of LR shooters "How Far" is the badge of honor. Cant tell me that these jack wagons takin 1000yd shots at an animal have no oppertunity to get closer. Its just lazziness...call it what it is.
 
" Bunch of mall snipers.... My gramps did it with an old 4x weaver and a pendelton shirt and so do I. Put your purses down."

>Oh yeah, remember your dumbazz post
>above about knowin limitations and
>such? I do know what
>I can do with my
>rig and got no problem
>provin it.

So you call anyone that uses turrets "mall snipers" and we need to "put our purses down" and you don't expect a response?
I bow to your awesomeness, your johnson is bigger, your wife is prettier and your kids are all smarter than mine, I get it.

By the way Dirty Harry is a character in a movie played by Clint Eastwood his political affiliation is of no concern since he is a fictional character.

Cahunter
I practice out to 1000 yards at least once a month also and have a blast doing so. If anyone wants to hunt with a fixed power scope sighted in for whatever range they want I could care less. I do know that all the guys I shoot long range with work on their loads, practice, practice and practice some more, unlike a lot of weekend warriors that buy a box of shells, shoot one at a rock at unknown yardage and then head to the hills.

Hardway
Next time we go shooting you can tag along with us "mall ninjas" and see if we really can shoot or if its all just BS.
My profile is not disabled (unlike yours) give me a call and we'll hook up, if you live in the area.
 
>Hardway
>Next time we go shooting you
>can tag along with us
>"mall ninjas" and see if
>we really can shoot or
>if its all just BS.

I dont need to "tag along" with anyone. I have long range guns, load all my own ammo and have shot 1000's of squirrels way out past 6-700 yds. If I wound one of those who cares... the poisin I put out will get em anyway. I just dont do it with big game. So what do you want to show me? That sometimes you miss and that you can never guarantee that every shot will be a hit at those ranges....even more important, are you man enough to turn down the shot? 200" buck..... 900 yds..... 20mph inconsistent wind.... no one around?
 
The "tag along" was for you to show us how its really done, after all we're just "mall snipers", guess we won't get that lesson.
I'm secure in my manhood, and I do practice in varying winds because thats the only way to learn how they affect your bullet flight, I know when to shoot and when to pass.
I bow to your awesomeness and it's time to move on Mr squirrel assassin, wow 700 plus yards and probably with a 22 long rifle, now thats some shootin right there.
 
>I would like to start a
>discussion on hunting scope preferences.

It is usually a tradeoff between accuracy and simplicity.
I have seen shots messed up by being on a high power at close range.
Bushnell had a drop compensator 20 years ago, but it was so loose that it was easy to rub the turret and not be on the right yardage.
I have seen people use the varmint reticle and hold on the wrong cross wire.
BUT, I have also used all of the above with great success. In most cases the additional accuracy due to power, turret, or reticle has been well worth the bother and learning.
For me the determining factor of success has being familiar with, and practicing with whatever scope I had chosen.
 
>The "tag along" was for
>you to show us how
>its really done, after all
>we're just "mall snipers", guess
>we won't get that lesson.
>
>I'm secure in my manhood, and
>I do practice in varying
>winds because thats the only
>way to learn how they
>affect your bullet flight, I
>know when to shoot and
>when to pass.
>I bow to your awesomeness and
>it's time to move on
>Mr squirrel assassin, wow 700
>plus yards and probably with
>a 22 long rifle, now
>thats some shootin right there.
>

Sorry, I misunderstood. You are welcome to tag along with me anytime.
 
I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers but as an old guy that bought the top of the line scope as a kid (leupold), I just bought a target knob for that scope. The way I look at it with only the elevation knob I can zero my rifle in at 100 yards and (with practice) I can have a zero hold to 5 or 6 hundred yards. I am not interested at anything extended beyond that. This is huge, even old farts must conform.
 
Contender
I'm an old fart too, I still have a Redfield accutrac 4x12 scope that has rangefinding stadia wires on the reticle and a turret that is adjustable to 600 yards circa about 1975 that I bought new. Adjustable turrets on scopes have been around a long time the biggest factor in shooting accurately at long range has been the advent of lazer rangefinders. Half the battle is knowing the correct range to the target and these fairly inexpensive LRF's are reason the average guy can be quite accurate at long range. Most of the animals I've killed have been with a 300 Win Mag sighted in 3 inches high at 100 yds but I'm not too old to learn new tricks and its amazing what you can do with the right equipment. Practice at 5-600 yards and then extend it to 7-800 you'll be amazed at what you can do with good equipment and some practice. Oh and you might want to dump the Pendleton shirt, my kids say Under Armor is the way to go these days.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-12 AT 04:19PM (MST)[p]> I'm willing to believe that
>for alot of LR shooters
>"How Far" is the badge
>of honor. Cant tell me
>that these jack wagons takin
>1000yd shots at an animal
>have no oppertunity to get
>closer. Its just lazziness...call it
>what it is.

You hit the nail on the head there. I'm on the fence since i've been spinning turrets long before it became cool..It bothers me to no end seeing the various TV shows geared around long range "hunting", and peddling their wares to joe average that has about as much business using them as I do piloting a shuttle in to space.

That said, its nice to have a trump card for that big buck or bull you just cant close in on..Have i missed a shot "diddling" with a weather station/turrets? Never. You see, I can fall back on "traditional" methods as well, and if the buck/bull wont give me time to set up on a long shot, then it was a no shot situation..

But tell me this, how many old timers would have held for the moon and dumped the mag on their 30-30 or '06 while i was setting up for nearly a sure kill? I'd say about 95% of the older guys i know would have dumped the mag, with about a 2% chance of a connection...so save the self righteous BS of the "traditional old timers".
 
Ya reddog, but the 30-06 and 30-30 have more knock down power}>


horsepoop.gif


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The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12 AT 07:41AM (MST)[p]REDDOG stated: "But tell me this, how many old timers would have held for the moon and dumped the mag on their 30-30 or '06 while i was setting up for nearly a sure kill? I'd say about 95% of the older guys i know would have dumped the mag, with about a 2% chance of a connection...so save the self righteous BS of the "traditional old timers"."

The first time I hunted mulies in Wyoming east of Buffalo in 1992 I had that kind of situation happen. There was an illegal camp of 4 Wisconsin hunters on state land up the road from where we were camped on BLM land legally. Opening morning I heard shooting over their way and it was like one guy shooting every few seconds about as fast as he could work the bolt. The next morning I was sitting at daylight down that way some and I saw a small 4x4 a good 400-500 yards away and every time he took a step he would really sway to his left rear. I could tell he really had something wrong and watched until he went into a little cut, marked the spot and went over there. As I got to the edge of the cut and looked down about 8' he was standing there with the left rear leg almost blown off below the ham. I shot him in the neck to put him out of his misery, but the wound was really bad and I had to leave him there for the yotes. That afternoon I ran into one of those guys and asked if that was him shooting opening morning. He said yea and pointed to a hill he was on and then to a hill at least 600 yards away where he said the buck was standing. I asked how the he** he could shoot offhand that far with his 06 and his response was that he "just raised her up and into the wind because he could see where the bullets were hitting into the hill!". I was pizzed and told him that BS cost a nice deer 24 hours of misery and the deer was wasted because of his lack of ethics. He just looked at me like it was an every day occurence and went on his way. I will never forget that day!!!
 
I maintain a person just can't judge the quality of animal out pst 4-500 yards. Even with all of the fancy $2K binocs, you will screw up eventually. I have screwed up at 500; very nice rack on an unusually small body deer. If you are meat hunting, then I understand; you like the challenge of making a long shot with all of your gadgetry. IMO with trophy hunting your better off getting inside 400 yards...or letting the shot go. I'd rather go home with empty ice chests than gamble on something out at 700 yards.


PS. My dad shot the M1 in the army out to 500 (prone and sitting)and had no problem hitting the bull most every shot. No fancy gadgetry back then, just peep sights and a good weapon.
 
>I maintain a person just can't
>judge the quality of animal
>out pst 4-500 yards.
>Even with all of the
>fancy $2K binocs, you will
>screw up eventually. I
>have screwed up at 500;
>very nice rack on an
>unusually small body deer.
>If you are meat hunting,
>then I understand; you like
>the challenge of making a
>long shot with all of
>your gadgetry.

Not sure but feels like that was directed toward my response so Ill take it as that. I can surely tell you that at 500 yards I can easily judge the quality of an animal. 60x is pretty powerful at 500 yards. Not saying I can tell you a buck is gonna be 166 3/8 but I can tell you if he was a mature 4x4 with good forks and mass or a narrow willow 4x4 with small forks. There are also many other factors that help determine the quality of an animal at longer range. Also a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. I enjoy more being in the outdoors, spending time hunting with family and friends and a step back from the busy world of today. A trophy animal is just icing on the cake.
 
Thanks for clarifying but I still feel the same way about judging game. Just curious how do you judge game at longer distance.
 
How do I judge?

I don't carry spotting scopes. Just a pair of 10x42s. I do a lot of walking. I am more of a minimalist...keep it simple. I'm old and gone thru many trials and tribulations over the years. I have made dumb mistakes and I have gotten lucky a time or two. I never had any debate with myself before pulling the trigger on any of the mounts that are on my wall. I knew when I saw it, it was good and didn't waste any time. I don't try to add up inches as I don't care what they score. I can't give you a cook book recipee on how I judge; I guess it is more instinct and experience. It gets very hard to determine size, the further it is. I don't get the thrill some do by shooting at game 700-800 yards out; to me, there is more sport in trying to get close. Some people just can't do that though.
 
Once I learned how to use turrets for hunting, I have never gone back. It added a whole new dimention to my hunting technique.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-12 AT 06:55PM (MST)[p]
>I maintain a person just can't
>judge the quality of animal
>out pst 4-500 yards.


Thats why most of my shots on pronghorn have been around 150-200 yards..I have to be good and close to judge them (even with a 60x scope!), and with lope you have all day to look, aint like they are gonna disappear on you (for good anyway).

Deer and Elk aint hard to judge from 500+ but i do pack a spotter..and with them the first time you see them may be the last time, so i do like to capitalize on the first opportunity at a shooter, if possible.I can still see the image of one particular colorado muley in my spotter, range was around 1200 yards but I knew immediately he was a shooter..with absolutely no way to get close, no I didnt take the shot but i sure debated it! I backed out and decided i'd get my chance to put my hands on his antlers if i was patient, and the next day I got my hands on him...When a 15 year old kid shot him.. ouch

Yes I have screwed up and shot the wrong bull before, but it was my fault,a result of mistaken identity and being impatient, but i certainly had the ability to judge him had i taken my time.
 

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