Utah Expo Contract Decision

This whole RFP process and the way they evaluate bids was completely stacked against RMEF. We all knew this was going to happen. We just didn't know how they could actually pull it off and make it look legit. Shurtliff and Swallow have nothing on these guys.
 
After watching this and from reading some of the pro SFW posters here on this page, i feel as if slime has somehow gotten on me. i will now go take a long hot shower!

To hawkeye and Griz, i don't know if you could have done any better at getting out the info needed and keeping us abreast of the goings on but you guys, and some others here, did a heck of a job, Thank You.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
feel bad for you folks in Utah, that sh!t is just crazy.
sure am glad we've been able to keep most of all that incredible coruption at bay in Idaho..
best a luck to ya Utah.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15
>AT 11:25?AM (MST)
>
>>TG,
>>
>>Do you even know what SFW's
>>proposal was?
>
>No, do you, LOL?! I'm
>sure SFW "did their thing"
>behind the scenes to even
>get the state to go
>the way of the RFP
>after they were made aware
>of what RMEF had offered.
> When the entirety of
>the two bids becomes public
>knowledge it will be more
>than interesting to see how
>the "impartial" committee voted the
>way it did. One
>thing that should be in
>there IMHO is an identical
>offer to give all the
>money involved with the $5
>application fee back just as
>a starter and we'll go
>from there to compare the
>two bids and see how
>the "impartial" committee picked who
>they did! What
>a stacked deck other organizations
>were handed the way this
>was done!!!

No I don't. I think we can save the outrage until we know the particulars in the bids. For all we know SFW decided to offer up all $5 plus a $2 adder for each application. If RMEF decision to enter the RFP process encouraged SFW to do more then that is exactly as competition is suppose to work. Save the hysteria until we have facts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 12:06PM (MST)[p]>>>TG,
>>>
>>>Do you even know what SFW's
>>>proposal was?
>>
>>No, do you, LOL?! I'm
>>sure SFW "did their thing"
>>behind the scenes to even
>>get the state to go
>>the way of the RFP
>>after they were made aware
>>of what RMEF had offered.
>> When the entirety of
>>the two bids becomes public
>>knowledge it will be more
>>than interesting to see how
>>the "impartial" committee voted the
>>way it did. One
>>thing that should be in
>>there IMHO is an identical
>>offer to give all the
>>money involved with the $5
>>application fee back just as
>>a starter and we'll go
>>from there to compare the
>>two bids and see how
>>the "impartial" committee picked who
>>they did! What
>>a stacked deck other organizations
>>were handed the way this
>>was done!!!
>
>No I don't. I think
>we can save the outrage
>until we know the particulars
>in the bids. For
>all we know SFW decided
>to offer up all $5
>plus a $2 adder for
>each application. If RMEF
>decision to enter the RFP
>process encouraged SFW to do
>more then that is exactly
>as competition is suppose to
>work. Save the hysteria
>until we have facts.

Hysteria my rear! SFW would had to have offered a whole lot more than what you just mentioned in order to get the contract! The fact is that since the RFP wasn't in place BEFORE the final bid day closed, the initial bids should have been looked at and voted on. Then the RFP could have been put in place for future contracts. This whole RFP delay IMHO was because everyone knew the RMEF was making a bid and that was the only way the "crooks" could figure out how to keep the SFW in the forefront. This was an end run to get around RMEF getting the contract and anyone with one firing brain cell, as BuzzH would put it, can figure this out. There is absolutely no way that SFW can better the money that RMEF would have brought in and put back on the ground if they had won the contract. When the bids are made public, as required by law, we will see what was offered and accepted. That should then show how the decks were stacked by the way this whole thing was mishandled. I'm with Joey and think I'll also go take a shower to get the stink off after seeing the way this went today, but it was really no surprize!!!
 
>>>>TG,
>>>>
>>>>Do you even know what SFW's
>>>>proposal was?
>>>
>>>No, do you, LOL?! I'm
>>>sure SFW "did their thing"
>>>behind the scenes to even
>>>get the state to go
>>>the way of the RFP
>>>after they were made aware
>>>of what RMEF had offered.
>>> When the entirety of
>>>the two bids becomes public
>>>knowledge it will be more
>>>than interesting to see how
>>>the "impartial" committee voted the
>>>way it did. One
>>>thing that should be in
>>>there IMHO is an identical
>>>offer to give all the
>>>money involved with the $5
>>>application fee back just as
>>>a starter and we'll go
>>>from there to compare the
>>>two bids and see how
>>>the "impartial" committee picked who
>>>they did! What
>>>a stacked deck other organizations
>>>were handed the way this
>>>was done!!!
>>
>>No I don't. I think
>>we can save the outrage
>>until we know the particulars
>>in the bids. For
>>all we know SFW decided
>>to offer up all $5
>>plus a $2 adder for
>>each application. If RMEF
>>decision to enter the RFP
>>process encouraged SFW to do
>>more then that is exactly
>>as competition is suppose to
>>work. Save the hysteria
>>until we have facts.
>
>Hysteria my rear! The fact
>is that since the RFP
>wasn't in place BEFORE the
>final bid day closed, the
>initial bids should have been
>looked at and voted on.
> This was an end
>run to get around RMEF
>getting the contract and anyone
>with one firing brain cell,
>as BuzzH would put it,
>can figure this out. There
>is absolutely no way that
>SFW can better the money
>that RMEF would have brought
>in if they had won
>the contract. When the
>bids are made public, as
>required by law, we will
>see what was offered and
>then we'll see how the
>decks were stacked by the
>way this whole thing was
>mishandled. I'm with Joey
>and think I'll also go
>take a shower to get
>the sink off after seeing
>the way this went today,
>but it was really no
>surprize!!!

The only thing you or I know at this point is that your team didn't win today. You know the final score but you never got to watch the game. They will show the game shortly and if it turns out the wrong team won then I will be pissed. Until then save it.
 
>Your are right that SFW has
>been stacking the deck in
>the fact that no other
>organization has put as much
>money on the ground in
>Utah than SFW has.
> They have been closely
>followed by Mule deer fooundation.
> Behind them has been
>Utah FNAWs. Not sure
>that makes a difference.

Obviously Birdman is a true blue SFW brainwashed follower. I have been involved with RMEF, SFW, and MDF from their inception. I find it comical that you didn't even list RMEF as one of your groups putting money into Utah. All of the groups have contributed to our wildlife and mad great improvements and I continue to support them all but I would recommend you do your homework before making claims from the hip. Prior to the creation of conservation permits, the RMEF contributed more money to Utah projects than all the other organizations you listed combined. It is no secret SFW and MDF rely on conservation and convention permits as their contribution. Up until this last year, RMEF was the only Conservation organization bringing additional funding (other than tag money)to the PAC process. All I am saying is for folks to research instead of spout off. If it wasn't for conservation permit money, SFW and MDF's contributions would be very minimal and FNAWS would be nonexistent.
 
Everybody hold their fudge till we see the particulars.







"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 12:27PM (MST)[p]>>>>>TG,
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you even know what SFW's
>>>>>proposal was?
>>>>
>>>>No, do you, LOL?! I'm
>>>>sure SFW "did their thing"
>>>>behind the scenes to even
>>>>get the state to go
>>>>the way of the RFP
>>>>after they were made aware
>>>>of what RMEF had offered.
>>>> When the entirety of
>>>>the two bids becomes public
>>>>knowledge it will be more
>>>>than interesting to see how
>>>>the "impartial" committee voted the
>>>>way it did. One
>>>>thing that should be in
>>>>there IMHO is an identical
>>>>offer to give all the
>>>>money involved with the $5
>>>>application fee back just as
>>>>a starter and we'll go
>>>>from there to compare the
>>>>two bids and see how
>>>>the "impartial" committee picked who
>>>>they did! What
>>>>a stacked deck other organizations
>>>>were handed the way this
>>>>was done!!!
>>>
>>>No I don't. I think
>>>we can save the outrage
>>>until we know the particulars
>>>in the bids. For
>>>all we know SFW decided
>>>to offer up all $5
>>>plus a $2 adder for
>>>each application. If RMEF
>>>decision to enter the RFP
>>>process encouraged SFW to do
>>>more then that is exactly
>>>as competition is suppose to
>>>work. Save the hysteria
>>>until we have facts.
>>
>>Hysteria my rear! The fact
>>is that since the RFP
>>wasn't in place BEFORE the
>>final bid day closed, the
>>initial bids should have been
>>looked at and voted on.
>> This was an end
>>run to get around RMEF
>>getting the contract and anyone
>>with one firing brain cell,
>>as BuzzH would put it,
>>can figure this out. There
>>is absolutely no way that
>>SFW can better the money
>>that RMEF would have brought
>>in if they had won
>>the contract. When the
>>bids are made public, as
>>required by law, we will
>>see what was offered and
>>then we'll see how the
>>decks were stacked by the
>>way this whole thing was
>>mishandled. I'm with Joey
>>and think I'll also go
>>take a shower to get
>>the sink off after seeing
>>the way this went today,
>>but it was really no
>>surprize!!!
>
>The only thing you or I
>know at this point is
>that your team didn't win
>today. You know the
>final score but you never
>got to watch the game.
> They will show the
>game shortly and if it
>turns out the wrong team
>won then I will be
>pissed. Until then save
>it.

"My team", LOL! My team should be the team of all of us working together for the betterment of all wildlife and the habitat. To see the SFW get that contract the way it was done IMHO shows they aren't on any team, but rather are on their own strictly looking out for their best interests and that is their pockets. Again I will say that there is no way that little organization could come close to putting the money back on the ground along with bringing a much larger number of people into SLC that would buy those $5 applications, as well as put money into the Utah economy. No way, no how, and for you to say anything different shows that you are either in with the top cronies or have been hoodwinked and are very naive like Birdman, bless his big heart!
 
RMEF presented a RFP pertaining to the Expo Permits. We all know that the RFP process was suddenly initiated after RMEF put in their original bid. Many have questioned the timing of the original bid, and why it was hand delivered on the last day of the before the bid was required. First of all this was done to assure that no information could be possibly leaked out pertaining to their bid, and then allow another organization the opportunity to alter theirs. There was never any games being played. RMEF was then notified of the (new) RFP requirements shortly after their bid was delivered. It is well documented that RMEF offered to return 100% of the Expo Tag Revenues back to the State of Utah to be used for on the ground projects.

RMEF took the high road on this process and decided to submit a formal RFP pertaining to the permits. RMEF actually altered their original bid by not only returning 100% of the Expo Tag Revenue to Utah for projects, but also offered 50% of the net proceeds from the actual Convention.

Having just left the Utah Wildlife Board meeting I was amazed at how SFW was awarded the Expo Tags. I can only speculate that the State of Utah is the big winner in this process. One must think that SFW must have offered similar incentives to be awarded the Expo Tags. Currently their bid details are not available. When this information becomes available it should be an interesting read.
 
205,000 members? Ability to reach millions of people to advertise it? Already a proven record of double the attendance without expo permits? Don't you ever ****** tell me SFW will be "far superior" to this state than RMEF. That's a bold faced lie. Utah wildlife lost today overall, but benefited because RMED stepped up to the plate and forced SFWs hands.
 
I must really be missing something, I never seen or heard anything other than "A" or "B". Somebody please help the deaf and blind out here?
 
I was there in person to watch. This is complete conjecture and totally my opinion only. It went down exactly as I expected it to.

The only thing I can add from being there in person versus what was not visible on Youtube due to the slide presentations and camera angles, was the reaction or lack thereof from those in attendance. I sat with a clear view of both the RMEF team and the SFW entourage. I say entourage because that's exactly what it was. 15-20 fully clad SFWs encircling Don, no joke.

There was a very discrete yet clear anticipation/disappointment by the RMEF folks. SFW on the other hand?not a word, not a gesture, not a release from anticipation, just straight up checking the box of formalities. Again, my opinion only, but the faces of 20 men showed me they already knew the outcome. Not one inkling of anticipation, surprise or relief.

Sure, after the meeting there were black slaps and laughs, but at the moment of truth, what I saw, was not what anyone would expect if millions of dollars were TRULY on the line.
 
>
>"My team", LOL! My team
>should be the team of
>all of us working together
>for the betterment of all
>wildlife and the habitat.
>To see the SFW get
>that contract the way it
>was done IMHO shows they
>aren't on any team, but
>rather are on their own
>strictly looking out for their
>best interests and that is
>their pockets. Again I
>will say that there is
>no way that little organization
>could come close to putting
>the money back on the
>ground along with bringing a
>much larger number of people
>into SLC that would buy
>those $5 applications, as well
>as put money into the
>Utah economy. No way,
>no how, and for you
>to say anything different shows
>that you are either in
>with the top cronies or
>have been hoodwinked and are
>very naive like Birdman, bless
>his big heart!

If wanting to see the facts before I start making judgements regarding the legitimacy of the RFP selection process or the character of those involved is me being na?ve then so be it. If you wish to keep ranting about how corrupt the selection process was without having any idea what 50% of the bidders even offered then please continue.

As far as me being "in with the top cronies" all I will say is that I have no idea who those people are. I have never had any affiliation with SFW, whether it is in Utah, my home state of Wyoming or any state for that matter. I intentionally left out a possible outfitter selection for an upcoming hunt in the NWT because of their affiliation with SFW and its leadership. I did stop and talk with a person at an WYSFW booth at an expo in Rock Springs back in 2003-2004 sometime for about 5 minutes. Wonder if that makes us pals? I have however been a member of RMEF for about 10 years. Left for a brief time after I thought they got too far from their core mission but came back when I felt they got there stuff together. I am also the one at my place of work that has decided to make us a corporate sponsor of RMEF for the last 3 years. To this point we have donated several thousand dollars as well as sponsoring the Wall Tent donation for the Rock Springs chapter annual banquet.

I'll admit I was surprised by the outcome and I struggle to see how they could have scored so much higher than RMEF but I will save my possible condemnation of the process and people involved until I have even basic facts. Obviously you have a different approach.
 
>There was a very discrete yet
>clear anticipation/disappointment by the RMEF
>folks. SFW on the other
>hand?not a word, not a
>gesture, not a release from
>anticipation, just straight up checking
>the box of formalities. Again,
>my opinion only, but the
>faces of 20 men showed
>me they already knew the
>outcome. Not one inkling
>of anticipation, surprise or relief.
>
>

Sounds like gracious winners to me!
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 01:11PM (MST)[p]I sincerely hope it was all on the up-and-up. RMEF submitted a solid proposal, supposedly better than their first, and I'M hoping SFW submitted one worthy of beating it.

We'll find out soon enough, but this may not be over.
 
It sounds like good ole boy system is alive and well and still hurting the people and wildlife of Utah.

What a sham the RMEF is 10 times the organization of SFW.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15
>AT 12:06?PM (MST)
>

>
>Hysteria my rear! SFW would
>had to have offered a
>whole lot more than what
>you just mentioned in order
>to get the contract!
>The fact is that since
>the RFP wasn't in place
>BEFORE the final bid day
>closed, the initial bids should
>have been looked at and
>voted on. Then the
>RFP could have been put
>in place for future contracts.
> This whole RFP delay
>IMHO was because everyone knew
>the RMEF was making a
>bid and that was the
>only way the "crooks" could
>figure out how to keep
>the SFW in the forefront.
> This was an end
>run to get around RMEF
>getting the contract and anyone
>with one firing brain cell,
>as BuzzH would put it,
>can figure this out. There
>is absolutely no way that
>SFW can better the money
>that RMEF would have brought
>in and put back on
>the ground if they had
>won the contract. When
>the bids are made public,
>as required by law, we
>will see what was offered
>and accepted. That should
>then show how the
>decks were stacked by the
>way this whole thing was
>mishandled. I'm with Joey
>and think I'll also go
>take a shower to get
>the stink off after seeing
>the way this went today,
>but it was really no
>surprize!!!

This!!! There is a whole lot wrong with what has happened. Although if sfw had to sweeten the deal than RMEF did actually accomplish something.

Justin
 
Very interesting decision made by the State. Turn down a proposal from an organization that has over 205,000 members and award an organization with 13,000 members. Turn down an organization that just held a national convention with over 87,000 attendees (without 200 convention tags) for an event that was reported to be 32,000 attendees and say the SFW proposal was far superior. Very puzzling indeed. It will be very interesting to see the actual proposal submitted by SFW.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 01:25PM (MST)[p]edit: good luck!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I doubt we will see lawyers. If RMEF was going to threaten a lawsuit they could have had a strong case when they turned in their bid on the deadline and then the state completely changed the process. At this point RMEF came in, greatly improved what Utah wildlife will get, and it is very embarrassing the decision that was made was made the way it was.

Once the information is out on both bids, I would encourage anyone who doesn't agree with this to do a few things; contact those involved with the selection process, don't attend the expo, and contact sponsors of the expo. If this wasn't done right and we didn't get the most beneficial result for our wildlife and state, we have a right to speak up.
 
>The only thing you or I
>know at this point is
>that your team didn't win
>today. You know the
>final score but you never
>got to watch the game.
> They will show the
>game shortly and if it
>turns out the wrong team
>won then I will be
>pissed. Until then save
>it.

Anybody who needs to wait and see what was in SFW's "revised proposal" simply hasn't been paying attention to SFW the last 10+ years. Book it................Smoke, mirrors, and consultant fees.

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
Unless I am wrong. SFW keeps 3.50 of the 5.00 to use as they see fit to benefit wildlife and RMEF gives 5.00 back. Too bad the money train drives on.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 02:15PM (MST)[p]>>Reasons just hit the divisions page,
>>read up
>>
>>http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/2015-12-18_justification_statement.pdf
>
>I doubt any of these justifications
>will satisfy the loosing bidders
>camp.


If you read that in it's entirety like I did when I saw it on HuntTalk awhile ago and you or anyone else can still say that this wasn't a complete sham, then shame on you and them. Randy Newberg (BigFin) has now stated that he can identify some of the biggies in the RMEF bid. Not only would they give back the entire $5 application fee, but they would also give back 100% of the auction net profits (now a 30% requirement to the best of my knowledge) along with 50% of the net proceeds made at the convention. Also, they have an attendance of over 40,000 at their convention and most are NRs, unlike the much lower numbers and who attends the present Expo. Now you tell me that just with those known huge money benefits alone with RMEF getting the bid that it wasn't a sham and setup for SFW BEFORE it even got started. There is nothing mentioned in the link that any changes or upgrading of what money SFW will give back and it doesn't sound like that was even taken into consideration the way the thing was set up. If any changes were not made to generate more money than just for SFW, then nothing was gained other than more folks now know how corrupt it is in Utah!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15
>AT 02:14?PM (MST)
>
>When I get my way government
>for once is starting to
>work because of organized grass
>roots influences. When I don't
>get my way they have
>all become corrupt and this
>marks the end of everything
>America stands for.
>
>:D
>
>I love reading a Flopgun post
>that you can tell he
>is so pissed off he
>can't type a clear sentence.
> He actually starts to
>stutter type.

Sorry, but if all but the SFW lovers and especially Utah residents aren't more than pissed over this debacle and the way it was run, then shame on them! Yea, I have to go back and edit a number of times because for some reason I cant get Spellcheck to work on this website and have to read and reread to make corrections including spelling and grammar, of which I'm usually pretty darn good compared to many on the net.
 
You know I may just have to go to the show this year. I am so angry I may give them some of my hard earned money on some of those draw tags they've got. I might even rent a car, and get a hotel room, and eat a few meals while I am there. Just disgusting. I imagine I will run into a few thousand more disgusted people while I am there. :D
 
As a member of RMEF that does not live or hunt elk in Utah I am not disappointed that they did not get this bid. 50% of the net proceeds of the convention going strictly to Utah would have meant potentially less for other states. I personally think you could throw endless amounts of money at Utah and it would still be a mess of a place. I think Utah could F up a wet dream if you gave them a chance. I would much rather see that money go elsewhere.

I can also look at the justification and read it that Utah put more emphasis on procedure than they did money. Looks like RMEF got the points for money to the state but lost on detail and specifics. Interesting result since I would have assumed RMEF would have had all their ducks in a row.

In my job I evaluate bids a lot and I have seen this before. Large companies that really have their stuff together, at times, can try to run on reputation alone. Sometimes that works, sometime not. Don't know if that was the case here but I am definitely surprised by the outcome.
 
Well Mr. Capitalism, it's nice you're coming. Bring your big wallet, cause Utah government just screwed Utah business, hotels, restaurants, rental car agencies and bars out of 20,000 additional visitors and their wallets.
 
Is anything stopping RMEF from having their next 5 conventions in SLC? That should help keep Utah's businesses in the black which apparently now is a concern.
 
The State obviously put more emphasis on the process that what was best for Utah's wildlife. They admittedly stated that the RMEF would be the best option for money to Utah's wildlife. So who is really the biggest loser in the process? Definitely Utah's wildlife. So let me explain the numbers so you have an idea of how much this cost our wildlife. A friend of mine within the RMEF sent me a copy of their actual proposal and I was able to read through it while looking at the DWR justification for each topic. Let me first say that I agree to some of the things they said. The RMEF could definitely have done a better job with their application but hell I could have sent in an application and made up a bunch of stuff and won the bid based on how it was done.

So here are the details of the RMEF's proposal: They did offer 100% of all $5 application fees to be returned to the DWR for projects. They did offer 50% of expo revenue to the DWR for projects and they did guarantee 42,500 attendees the first year with an expected growth I subsequent years.

By the SFW and MDF numbers posted from previous expos around 1.4 million has been generated from the $5 application fees. The regulation only requires the conservation organization to return 30%. In the SFW proposal it clearly states they will keep the 70%. That is approximately 1 million dollars that will not be guaranteed to benefit Utah's wildlife (at the current expo permit sale numbers). The RMEF guaranteed an initial attendance of over 10,000 more than the current expo numbers. If each one of those attendees put in for only two tags that is an additional $100,000 lost. The RMEF also guaranteed 50% of expo revenue. This is the $10-$20 entrance fee to get into the expo. At just $10 a person for $42,000 people this calculates to another $210,000. SO from my calculations, the State of Utah just lost a guaranteed 1.3 million dollars for Utah's wildlife.
 
>I was there in person to
>watch. This is complete conjecture
>and totally my opinion only.
>It went down exactly as
>I expected it to.
>
>The only thing I can add
>from being there in person
>versus what was not visible
>on Youtube due to the
>slide presentations and camera angles,
>was the reaction or lack
>thereof from those in attendance.
>I sat with a clear
>view of both the RMEF
>team and the SFW entourage.
>I say entourage because that's
>exactly what it was. 15-20
>fully clad SFWs encircling Don,
>no joke.
>
>There was a very discrete yet
>clear anticipation/disappointment by the RMEF
>folks. SFW on the other
>hand?not a word, not a
>gesture, not a release from
>anticipation, just straight up checking
>the box of formalities. Again,
>my opinion only, but the
>faces of 20 men showed
>me they already knew the
>outcome. Not one inkling
>of anticipation, surprise or relief.
>
>
>Sure, after the meeting there were
>black slaps and laughs, but
>at the moment of truth,
>what I saw, was not
>what anyone would expect if
>millions of dollars were TRULY
>on the line.

It's called being a professional. Good Lord.
 
I agree totally. RMEF should come to SLC and do their show there anyway. According to yall they attract tons more people without the tags. Nothing stopping them from bringing a bigger better show and showing all these "corrupt" people how it's done. Right?

Come on Randy bring the show. I think that's the best idea yet. Show these guys how a righteous group of do gooders gets it done. Bigger and better. You've got at least 14 people right here on these forums that will be there in a heartbeat.

Hello. Hello? Is this thing on?
 
As a member and supporter of all three organizations involved I must say I am really pissed at the outcome of this decision. Not for the fact that RMEF did not get the bid but because it cost our wildlife so much. I would recommend everyone that cares about our wildlife write a letter to SFW and MDF asking them to fork over the entire $5 application fee for our wildlife. I am basically in shock because I was expecting their proposal to include giving back that money especially after the RMEF offered it up and they knew it. I am especially addressing all fellow SFW and MDF members to write those organizations and ask them to give the application fees to the DWR for our wildlife. I am planning to write them and if they refuse to give the money up then I will be forced to withdraw my membership. If we as sportsmen demand this and pull our support they will have to listen. A conservation organization is nothing without the support of its members. Those are public animals being sold to support paychecks, consultation fees or whatever SFW desires and that is not right. It should go to the benefit of Utah's wildlife.
 
This is my first post, soooo be gentle...

I've been lurking on this site for many years, I've always been a visitor, enjoying the posts, laughing at many and yelling at others.

Years ago I would head down to the basement in the Lion and Hound hunting suction and get some great comic relief. HoundDawg, Ed Hunter and Kevin had some great stories to tell. When Ed told us he liked his women ?just like his dogs, big black and trashy.? I ruined a keyboard because of the diet coke I blow all over it. When Fivepoint Buck decided to callout Cass on all the trophy class bucks and bull elk he was seeing on Monroe, ?it was classic in your face get a reality check? (Cass was just a kid back than) they were great reads. Coach used to get on here and I always enjoyed what he had to say, you knew he truly cared about the kids he coached in track and he brought some real class to the MM site. There have been many other posts or topics that I could bring up to verify I've been lucking as a watcher for many, many years.

The Utah Expo contract decision has driven me to some action.

A little about me before we began. I've been a Utah resident all my life. I'm in my early 50?s and hunting has been a big part of mine and my families life?s. I remember and know what hunting in the state of Utah was like in the sixties, seventies, eighties to present. I've hunted in many areas of the state Bookcliffs, Wasatch, Mount Dutton, Crawfords, Cache, Uintas, Summit County, Manti and the West Desert.. I've killed a lot of Deer and a good number of Elk and although they may be trophies to me they wouldn't be considered trophies in any books. The hunting in the state has changed dramatically over the years. There?s some good changes and some terrible changes with regards to the perspective of a father who wishes to include the whole family. The recruitment of the young hunter has taken the biggest hit.

A number of years ago I was part of a chapter that organized a banquet for MDF. Bob Wharff the MDF representative helped us head up a local chapter. That was my first experience with a conservation group and I walked away from this experience after many hours of donated time and money extremely disillusioned and swore I would never participate with any conservation group again. Bob at that time was signing the MDF song and any chance he got he would tout the evils of SFW and their greedy hold on Utah?s wildlife. Not long after the banquet Bob switched to the dark side and became an avid supporter and representative for SFW. When Bob did this it just reinforced my beliefs about the conservation groups. I have steered clear of any conservation group sense.

I have been in the business of biding on various different types of government contracts (federal, state and city) for over the past 25+ years. And from what I'm reading. The awarding of the expo tags and contract to SFW stinks of corruptions, favoritism, and cronyism? Simply put, RMEF its supporters and possible the wildlife and citizen Utah have been screwed by the state of Utah the wildlife board and SFW... Sadly, from my experience it will be very difficult or impossible for RMEF to be made whole in this process.

I can't sit back and just be a watcher any longer. For the first time in many years I have sufficient motivation to join a conservation group and it will be RMEF. (thank you SFW) RMEF has conducted themselves in a professional and stand-up manner considering the shenanigans going on during this whole process.

I would assume there are others like me with similar views?

My support will go to an organization that shows class, character and openness and bestows the principals of honesty, integrity and the betterment wildlife.

For you Utah hunters, is this truly the best we can do? How many of you are disgusted with this good ole boy corruption?
 
>Grizz's response happened to fall in
>order under yours but it
>was directed to #84.

Yeah. I don't know what happened, so I just edited to reply to 101 since that is where it fell in the thread.

Grizzly
 
Cherry, well said. Why do we as sportsmen not demand better for our wildlife. I have been contributing to all these organizations since their inception because I care about hunting and wildlife in Utah. It is a true passion for me. I think all of these organizations have done a lot of good for our wildlife. I was really hoping to see the SFW proposal offering the entire $5 application fee revenue back to the DWR but this is not the case. I don't know how anyone that is a true outdoorsman, sportsman, hunter, wildlife lover or whatever you call yourself can feel good about the outcome of this. Utah's wildlife are the biggest losers. I am formally calling you out Don Peay, Byron Bateman, Jon Larsen and John Bair. Do what is right, give all 100% of the Convention Permit fees back to "Our - We the People's" wildlife.
 
Don't support the expo from here on out if you don't support this decision. If there numbers start plummeting they'll know sportsmen don't support this.
 
Citizens of Utah were just scammed out of $6 Million plus dollars for wildlife. Political cronyism at its finest was on display at the Utah Wildlife Board Meeting today. RMEF proposed to give 100% of the Expo Tag monies back to Utah for habitat projects, but the political jockeying by SFW allows them to keep approximately $880K per year for their efforts. No accountability for these monies. What a SHAM, and they call themselves a Conservation Group. Money over Wildlife. Disgraceful
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15 AT 05:17PM (MST)[p]Just a few thoughts.
Some used to complain about the 200 permits. Non res have reason since fewer permits are available in the regular Non Res draw. I apply to 5 other states, for the most part Non Res get the short end of the stick every time.

IF the 200 permits went back in the regular draw. Zero of the 5 dollar application fee goes to help wildlife.

It looks like RMEF didn't write a detail proposal in some of the areas they were judged on. They didn't have a record in Utah for major conventions, like SFW/MDF did, which was some of the criteria.

IMO both SFW and RMEF are both good groups with different areas of focus on wildlife. RMEF is more of a habitat, and purchasing easements for big game type group.

As mentioned there is no reason why RMEF couldn't hold a convention in Utah, they have a larger membership by a long ways. That may help them secure future bids for the 200 tags?

I would support two expos.
 
>Don't support the expo from here
>on out if you don't
>support this decision. If there
>numbers start plummeting they'll know
>sportsmen don't support this.
Unfortunately it doesn't matter how bad things get or how good it could have been those tags will make the expo a "success"

Justin
 
Just as I thought it would be... And from what I have heard from people there, the only guys surprised were the RMEF. I believe this explains why the silence of the sfw crew recently ended. And the explanations,justifications, self promotions, and here drink this kool aid, we do it all for the children,, er I mean wildlife speeches began.
I would like to thank Top, and Hawkeye, for keeping us up to date. Trisexual, Please do come spend your money hear in Utah, Live it up and have a good time, bring all your friends, or friend..or acquaintance,or,, well do you have a dog?... Anyway you have a wonderful time. I have a question for you Colorado,Wyoming,Idaho, folks What Cities there could accommodate a truely HUGE expo, held the same days as the sfw/utah dwr expo if something like that, were ever to happen...hmmmmm I for one would sure like to see it. BTW does anyone know the real MM names of all the jv posters???
 
>Just a few thoughts.
>Some used to complain about the
>200 permits. Non res
>have reason since fewer permits
>are available in the regular
>Non Res draw. I
>apply to 5 other states,
>for the most part Non
>Res get the short end
>of the stick every time.
>
>
>IF the 200 permits went back
>in the regular draw.
>Zero of the 5 dollar
>application fee goes to help
>wildlife.
>
>It looks like RMEF didn't write
>a detail proposal in some
>of the areas they were
>judged on. They didn't
>have a record in Utah
>for major conventions, like SFW/MDF
>did, which was some of
>the criteria.
>
>IMO both SFW and RMEF are
>both good groups with different
>areas of focus on wildlife.
> RMEF is more of
>a habitat, and purchasing easements
>for big game type group.
>
>
>As mentioned there is no reason
>why RMEF couldn't hold a
>convention in Utah, they have
>a larger membership by a
>long ways. That may
>help them secure future bids
>for the 200 tags?
>
>I would support two expos.

The problem was the criteria was written in a skewed way. For instance, no weight was given for very high attendance. Bringing 10,000 attendees was scored the same as bringing 40,000 attendees. RMEF estimated 42,500 attendees and was told they didn't back up their estimate with statistics (they had 87,000 attend Elk Camp in Vegas last week). The law that originally defined the Expo specifically stated it was to benefit wildlife and tourism, RMEF's offer appears to have been significantly better in both regards.

50% of the criteria was written with the term "in Utah" which unfairly punishes a group that has a substantially larger footprint with an exemplary track record, but happens to have national appeal (which should appease other concerns like attendance, security, and marketing strategy).

The criteria was written to favor a previous Expo holder rather than take each proposal on its own merits. This is seen throughout the scoring sheets.

The fact that RMEF, by all accounts capable of hosting conventions much larger than the Expo, could offer 100% of Expo tag fees, 100% of Conservation tag revenue, 50% of net profits, and attendance by a much larger and more national audience, and still lose to somebody who offers nothing except the legal-minimum 30% of Expo tag fees is a travesty.

Grizzly
 
It's worse than it looks.

How the hell do some people sleep at night.

Let the games begin.




"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
And which of the SFW boys is going to be the first to tell all of us
That this is what's best for wildlife.

Please step on up.



"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
So tags go back and Zero goes to conservation. Very true. 99% of people who put in for those tags see it as a service fee just as the state charges $10 service fee to put in. It goes to Fallon NV and nothing goes to conservation. So people get another chance to draw a awesome tag. The fact that some of that money goes to conservation is a bonus. Do you think changing the rules and percentages will change anyone's mind. Maybe a few, prob not a lot. People still want a chance! People will put in regardless......Just like they do when they put in for LE hunts and get nothing. Look if your so worried about your $5.00 then keep it, that way you are doing Nothing! Good for you, don't like Expo- don't go, don't like the .orgs then don't join. Pretty simple!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-15
>AT 05:17?PM (MST)
>
>Just a few thoughts.
>Some used to complain about the
>200 permits. Non res
>have reason since fewer permits
>are available in the regular
>Non Res draw. I
>apply to 5 other states,
>for the most part Non
>Res get the short end
>of the stick every time.
>
>
>IF the 200 permits went back
>in the regular draw.
>Zero of the 5 dollar
>application fee goes to help
>wildlife.
>
>It looks like RMEF didn't write
>a detail proposal in some
>of the areas they were
>judged on. They didn't
>have a record in Utah
>for major conventions, like SFW/MDF
>did, which was some of
>the criteria.
>
>IMO both SFW and RMEF are
>both good groups with different
>areas of focus on wildlife.
> RMEF is more of
>a habitat, and purchasing easements
>for big game type group.
>
>
>As mentioned there is no reason
>why RMEF couldn't hold a
>convention in Utah, they have
>a larger membership by a
>long ways. That may
>help them secure future bids
>for the 200 tags?
>
>I would support two expos.

You'd Support 2 EXPO'S?

Where's them 200 Permits coming from?




I'm Living & Dieing with the Choices
I've Made!

Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/us
er_photos3/9001hank2.jpg
 
So, where does MDF fit in all of this? Or do they? Were they kicked out of the partnership after this year? Did they leave? Or are they now the Jr. partner sitting in the background? Inquiring minds want to know! (Well, at least one inquiring mind.)
 
>And which of the SFW boys
>is going to be the
>first to tell all of
>us
>That this is what's best for
>wildlife.
>
>Please step on up.
>
>
>
>"The State of Utah has not
>given BGF anything.
>They have invested in BGF to
>protect their
>interests."
>Birdman 4/15/15

Or best for the majority of Utah's hunters?
 
One other thought that has been mentioned in prior posts but should be highlighted is that SFW did not increase the amount it is contributing to actual conservation above the minimum $1.50 required by the rule. By the time they submitted their response to the RFP, SFW knew that RMEF had already submitted a proposal that voluntarily committed 100% of the application fees to actual conservation,which would result in millions of dollars over the life of the contract. Why didn't SFW up the ante and offer more toward conservation? My guess is they did not feel threatened and we're confident they would retain the contract. If SFW was truly worried it might actually lose the contract, they likely would have increased that amount -- kind if like when SFW/MDF "voluntarily" agreed to commit $1.50 toward conservation after sportsman threw a fit in 2012. The fact that SFW's proposal allows them to pocket $3.50 out of every $5 application fee and still won by a wide margin is a travesty. It is a testament to the fact that they RFP favored the current contract holders. RMEF submitted a detailed proposal but it was based upon projections and commitments stating what RMEF would do IF awarded the contract. The DWR and the selection committee were apparently more impressed with what SFW is currently doing even if the return will be less. Some might say the DWR chose a bird in the hand over two in the bush. Others may argue that the RFP was drafted in this manner to favor the current contract holders. You be the judge. But at the end of the day, RMEF's proposal not not even motivate SFW/MDF to take a step in the right direction and commit a larger portion of the $5 application fees toward actual conservation, and that is disappointing,

-Hawkeye-
 
Im glad we don't have to deal with this in our state.

I have said before I tried seeing what the sfw was about only cause a friend got me a ticket to a banquet. My result was run the other direction. Several things happened just at a banquet that made me quickly judge. The highlight is all the credit the Sfw took for stuff they did. HMMMMMMMMMMMM it was more like put there brand on it and take credit from others and make money.

I try to do my part warning others of the danger. I have made several people also see the issues.


Im sorry Utah. Looks like the SFW will will take away from you. hey kinda like Obama!!!
 
>Im glad we don't have to
>deal with this in our
>state.
>
>I have said before I tried
>seeing what the sfw was
>about only cause a friend
>got me a ticket to
>a banquet. My result was
>run the other direction. Several
>things happened just at a
>banquet that made me quickly
>judge. The highlight is
>all the credit the Sfw
>took for stuff they did.
> HMMMMMMMMMMMM it was more
>like put there brand on
>it and take credit from
>others and make money.
>
>I try to do my part
>warning others of the danger.
>I have made several people
>also see the issues.
>
>
>Im sorry Utah. Looks like the
>SFW will will take away
>from you. hey kinda like
>Obama!!!

This fiasco further displays how fortunate Arizona was to escape from their grasp and kick their sorry arses out before they got a foot wedged in the door. Pathetic organization that should be ashamed of themselves.


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
How is it the news media doesn't get involved with this corruption.

I wonder what Fstop' s stance is on all of this?
 
But will fstop dig into the guts of it like he said he would. We will see I guess.

Sad part is they don't care about how much the public complains. They know that in a few weeks this will go away until expo time then there will be more talk for a couple of weeks and it will go away again until the next year.

The writhing was on the wall when they changed to the RFP without written notification to those involved. SFW, the WB and DWR went away yesterday saying hee,hee,ha,ha we did it again and there is nothing they the public can do about it. A blind person can see the corruption that took place in this whole process.

Sad very sad.
 
As we gather around this Christmas season we are so proud to be engaged in an organization that has the values that this great country we call America was founded upon. This commitment will never lead us away from our mission of habitat preservation and sound wildlife stewardship. We are proud of our accomplishments, and our excited to see what more can be done. If you share the values in the picture below we would ask you to join us as we move forward. Merry Christmas

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