Variety of 308 Factory Hunting Loads

[FamilyMan]

Hey all,

I need to purchase a rifle for my boys who are now of hunting age. I am focusing on a .308 caliber because it would be fine for deer and antelope and could be beefed up a little to work fine for elk also. Here is my question - I have been told that the selection of factory hunting loads for .308 caliber rifles is not all that great because so much of the .308 ammo manufacturing is focused on target and AR rounds. Have any of you found the variety of .308 hunting loads to be lacking?

Mark

My hunting spot is so secret, not even the elk have found it yet.

 

[RELH]

Take a look at what Federal ammo is offering for the 308 caliber. If they offer the Nosler Partition in 308, like they do for the 30-06 and 300 Win. mag. There is your bullet for elk and even large mule deer.
In the past they use to offer Sierra Game King bullets in many calibers that would make a great antelope and deer bullet.

RELH

 

[dang302]

There are a lot of good hunting loads available for the 308. I would say not to buy expensive loads though. The 308 does not need fancy bullets because it is so slow. A remington cor-lokt, or winchester soft point, or equivalent will work just as well as the fancy partition, because the 308 does not have the velocity to destroy any of these bullets.

Just to be clear, I am not recommending target bullets.

One of the best advantages of the 308 is that ammo should be less expensive, take advantage of that.

 

[RELH]

dang302;

I do not know where you got your information concerning the Remington Core-Loct will work as well as the partition. I quit using the Core-loct over 20 years ago due to seeing too many blow up on shoulder shots and not making it into the vital organs.
The partition will punch though the shoulder bone with ease on normal range shots.
As for the "slow speed" of the 308, you should check your ballistic tables that show true speed of factory ammo and reloads. The 308 is running only 150-200 fps behind the 30-06 in barrels of the same lenght. No where as slow as you make it out to be.
RELH

 

[sageadvice]

There are people that like the core-loct, i'm not one of them. Sure, they killed stuff but so do clubs and arrows. all in all, they were a terribly designed bullet suited for casual target practice and fire forming of cases. That's my opinion, you are welcome to yours.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[stumpjumper]

I've used the 308 all my life as did my Dad. I shoot a 110 gr. for Antelope, 165 Partition for deer and a 180 partition for Elk.
Won't take shots over 400 yrds. cause that's where I'm comfortable. Will sure get the job done.

 

[dang302]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-03-13 AT 08:30AM (MST)[p]My dad killed elk 6 or 7 years in a row with a 30-06 and factory loaded 180 grain cor-lokts. He made shots from 50-250 yards. He shot several in the lungs/shoulder, one in the spine, and one through the liver. He reports that the bullets were all found just under the offside hide. He never tracked any of them.

I think the partition is a great bullet. I also believe that the front part of a partition is very fragile (jacket is very thin up there). If the partition was removed from the partition bullet, I believe the cor-lokt would be a tougher bullet. I know that is a stupid thing to say, but my point is that a partition is only tougher than a cor-lokt or even a ballistic tip if you make it mushroom to the point of the partition. (I think the ballistic tip's tapered jacket is tougher than the partitions non-tapered jacket). I don't believe that a 308 has the speed to make a partition need its partition.

The beauty of the partition is that you get rapid "mushrooming" and all of the energy associated with that, but at a certain point that stops and you are guaranteed about 60% of that thing will hold together and continue to penetrate.

The partition was invented to combat a problem that came about when things like weatherby's came out and the extreme speeds were destroying bullets.

I don't have much experience with the 308, but I don't think the there is a 180 grain bullet made that a 30-06 can make "blow up" on an elks shoulder.

Now drop down to a 130 grain 270 and its a whole different argument.

 

[sageadvice]

dang said, "My dad killed elk 6 or 7 years in a row with a 30-06 and factory loaded 180 grain cor-lokts. He made shots from 50-250 yards. He shot several in the lungs/shoulder, one in the spine, and one through the liver. He reports that the bullets were all found just under the offside hide. He never tracked any of them."


All the bullets were found just under the offside skin? Thru the liver, ribs, shoulder, spine, but every bullet on each animal was found just under in the offside Skin? Most remarkable, simply amazing, testimony i have ever heard of a bullet's performance...and you have to believe your Dad but i don't got to!

Sorry Dang because you've given good info in the past, but IMO, your whole post is jacked up with BS.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[RELH]

Dang302;

If your dad had used 180 gr. Partitions instead of those Core-lokts, the bullet would have gone though that far side and provided a better bleed out and blood trail if it had been needed.
I have seen 150 gr. core-lokts from a 30-06 blow up on a deer's shoulder bone and the deer dropped, got back up and took off on three legs. My buddy had shot it and I had to put a second round into the deer to prevent him from going over the ridge top. You can keep your core-lokts and one of these days it is going to fail you on a shot you will not expect it to fail.

If you do not want to buy more expensive bullets, buy Sierra game kings or Sierra pro hunter as they are cheap and are better constructed then the Remington core-lokt. Most of the times they are more accurate also over the core-lokt.

RELH

 

[mtmuley]

I've posted this before, but I killed a bunch of elk (deer and antelope too) when I was a kid with a .30-06 and 180 grain Core-Lokts. This was way before the internet said I couldn't. They are what my Father bought my brother and I. I never had one blow up, and I never lost an animal. No, I don't use them anymore. I agree there are better choices. To say they don't or can't work isn't true either. If all I had was my ol .30-06 (and I still have it) and a box of Core-Lokts, I bet money I'd still kill elk with no problem. I don't get why people have a problem with guys using them. Guess I've used enough of them to know there isn't a problem. mtmuley

 

[sageadvice]

Muley, so you haven't had a problem. Lots of guys have though. Just because you personally haven't had a problem with them, i don't believe gives you the right to say that there is no problems with them.

I probably killed close to 40 trophy bucks with Rem factory corelocts. Yeah, they kill stuff. But i could see lots of times that they came apart, the lead went on but to pieces, and the jacket didn't penetrate when it hit solid bone. Not just me, my Dad shot them and lots of other guys i hunted with did as well.

Believe me i get what you are saying and if you continue to want to champion Remington Core-locts, fine. I think you'd be much better off being one of the early proponents of Accubonds myself but continue on if that's what you wish!

Like i said, they can kill stuff, no doubt...but so do arrows and clubs. There's much better choices out there and some priced almost as reasonable.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[mtmuley]

Joey, I'm not gonna argue this one. If you look, I said there are better choices. Just giving my on-game experience with the bullet. mtmuley

 

[dang302]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-13 AT 09:05AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-04-13 AT 09:03?AM (MST)

Joey,

That was my whole point. I was always amazed that they were found under the offside hide and it didn't matter the distance. I had a buddy shoot an Oryx and made a high shoulder shot that went through both shoulders and the spine and that one exitted. Oryx are only 400-500 lbs though.

I don't use cor-lokts. I have had several buddy's get into hunting and ask me for advice on an initial setup and I recommend the 30-06 with that cheap remington 180 grain ammo. I don't know anything about the 150grain stuff, its obviously going about 3000 FPS and I would have concerns about it on elk, but would think it ok on Deer. Your info would indicate not so much.

I got caught up in the expensive and fancy bullet craze and I still can't make myself shoot cheap cup and core bullet, and I reload almost all of what I shoot. I have come around a little on my thinking though. For instance:

a 130 grain Nosler ballistic tip out of 270 can be a fragile bullet.

a 200 or 215 or 225 grain ballistic tip (whatever they make) out of a 338 win mag is not a fragile bullet at all and is suited to kill elk with.

I use the ballistic tip as an example because I think of it as a fragile, almost varmint type bullet. But when you get up to larger calibers they are inherently stronger just due to their mass and increased jacket size. In the above example I use 338 win mag, which basically mirrors 30-06 velocities. 338 lapua is a different ball game, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk with my 338 lapua and 300 grain match bullets, because they are only going 2650-2700 FPS and lets face it, its a 300 grain bullet!...its not gonna stop on anythings shoulder (speaking this continent of course).

I am saddened that you think less of me Joey.

It was stated that in my original example that partitions would have exitted. That may be true, but its tough to argue that its needed when the first example was "dead right there." Although, again, I shoot ones that I know will exit, because, ya, its better!, but certainly not mandatory.

I tend to always use more gun than I need, so I don't exactly practice what I preach. I use a lot of barnes and I basically never want to have to wait for that perfect broadside shot. If the condition is conducive than by all means, i will wait. But if I have 3 seconds to shoot that giant bull as he faces me at 40 yards, then by all means I want to be able to put one straight into him and know that that bullet will go all the way to his pelvis.

If I had to pack up and leave tonight for a rifle elk hunt, I would take my 300 win mag shooting 180 grain TSX's or my 358 STA shooting 225 TSX's. Both going 3000 FPS.

Would I recommend that you have to use that much for elk? No way.

Back to the original post. I suppose that a 308 could destroy a 110 grain bullet on something, but I doubt it could ever destroy a 180 grainer, and I imagine that it could damage a 165 like a 30-06 damages a 180 grainer (same speed).

I might be biased because I have no respect for the 308 as a hunting cartridge. If you are going to shoot light bullets then I would rather have my 270 (shooting 130g barnes of course). If your are going to shoot heavy slow bullets than I would rather have my 338-06 with 225g hornady SP's (probably equivalent to cor-lokts by the way)...but only going 2650 FPS. Or, of course the two previously mentioned rifles (if I wanted more speed).

I have 2 30-06's and one shoots 150 grain barnes TSX's and the other shoots the 168 TSX. Both shoot very well, but neither get out to hunt...might just be because of the nice wood stocks though., but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot an elk in the shoulder with each. If I had to shoot cor-lokts through them i would make sure they are 180's...then I wouln't give it a second thought.

Not sure I helped myself out here...but these are my crazy thoughts, and now I am just rambling.

Danny

 

[dang302]

Conceptually, I do believe that some bullets will penetrate deeper at slower speeds so it definately makes sense that when you find the perfect combination you can get the same amount of penetration at different yardages.

Up close a soft expanding bullet will mushroom rapidly and violently, thus slowing itself down rapidly.

Farther out, it will be going slower and the mushroom/expansion will be slower and slow the bullet down less rapidly perhaps allowing it to penetrate deeper, or in my case to the same depth.

I just feel like my dads 30-06 with 180g cor-lokts happens to fit some magic window with elk to perfectly expend all its energy on the animal and not quite have enough to exit.

I DO BELIEVE THAT THE NOSLER PARTITIONS DESIGN IS TO MAXIMIZE THE ABOVE POSSIBILITY (same penetration regarless of what speed).

The beauty of the nosler partition is that the front have will expand violently and cause a lot of damage yet the partition ensure penetration. Some very tough penetrating bullets will undoubtably do less damage than the partition because their toughness prevents this rapid expansion (and fragmentation-which the partition certainly does(front half)).

Answer this for me:
If the partition retains more than 60% of its weight and thus does not mushroom all the way to the partition, why would it out penetrate a cup and core bullet that under the same circumstance retaines the same "more than 60%" of its weight?

I think ultimately they look the same and do the same thing. The partition is only needed when all the lead in the front end has fragmented away and the bullet is being destroyed to the point of what we all call failure. Then the partition prevents that failure and continues along as a full metal jacket to ensure that you still have 60% of that bullets weight to carry some momentum.

I don't think the 308 can take a 180 grain partition to that point. My thoughts were always about 180 grainers, but perhaps other have been thinking about lighter bullets...maybe that is our disconnect.

 

[sageadvice]

Dang, as with mtmuley, there are going to be some topics that we are all just not going to be able to agree on. Like muley and maybe yourself, we have formed our opinions on the results of many many kills on big game animals.

Though i had to use Core-locts or soft points on my hunts early on in my most prolific hunting days, i never hunted with anything bigger than a 25-06 until i had maybe half a hundred animals under my belt, both in state and as a non resident in several others. So most of my experience is with the smaller, .243 and .257, calibers and those CL bullets.

That said, i don't discount what others have negatively reported about their performance in the larger calibers and heavier bullets as they mirrored my findings with the smaller stuff.

In the end, i don't care what a person shoots or hunts with, as long as they have success and are able to recover their animals. That is why i stopped bow hunting, that is why i learned to limit my shots, and that is why i stopped using Core-loct bullets.

If a guy said that he thought round lead balls out of his sling shot were good on deer out to 20 yards, there would be another to strongly agree with him and others ready to debate the issue. That's how it goes sometimes.

Joey




"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[dang302]

Shoot!...forgot about the moose my dad shot with his 30-06 abd 180 grain cor-lokts that only went 40-50 yards. 1 shot. I guess I forget about the moose cause my taxidermist stole both mine and my dads along with a few other stuff of ours he had.

Sorry I hijacked this thread and sorry I got my feelings hurt over it.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Family Man,
I do not have much to help on the factory ammo for the .308. I do know cheap brass is hard to find for it, and not much to choose from for factory loads on the shelf at stores. Lucky for me I hand load. I really like the 7mm's for myself, but I am building 2 .308's for my children (son 13 & daughter 18). Both have shot my 7mm's and shot them well, but neither could carry them all day. My 7mmWSM is 14.5 lbs field ready (ammo, bipod, sling, etc).

I have one done, a Rem. 700 LTR with a heavy 20" barrel (11.8 lbs field ready). These will make great 400 yard rifles for them. I am different from most in that I like a heavy as possible rifle. They are more consistently accurate under field conditions. With a good back pack like Eblerstocks with gun scabbard a child can easily carry a 10 to 12 lb rifle. The other suggestion I was going to make was it might beneficial to you to start reloading. I know it is a big initial cost, but then when times are like they are now you can still reload your own when you can not find the correct ammo on the shelf.

As far as loads, I started reloading Barnes TSX 168 gr all copper bullets (arouond 2700 to 2750 fps). With the California condor range being lead free, and other places talking about it, I decided it would be wise to start trying these. By hand loading I was able to get good accuracy and the end results were good (only shot 2 deer, both around 100 yards). One through both shoulders, the other through the lungs and out off side shoulder. Both exited the deer. First dropped in its tracks, second ran 30 yards. Both broke bone, and a hell of a lot less mess than the Bergers from the 7mm. I plan to take this rifle on my Montana moose hunt this year and use it in the thicker short range areas.

Hope this helped
Bill