Very sad for our Sport

LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-11 AT 10:42AM (MST)[p]Well had to make it an even 100 posts

seems to be on the last leg- one more day of huntin for all those archery guys - wonder if 400 is stillthe magic number or anybull will do today!
 
Still would like to see a picture of this 400 bull.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Ok.....For what all of you have been waiting for....I am now the famous/infamous "Bowtech Guy" or "DBLLUNG"..The guy most of you thought would never show my face here..Believe me, I have nothing to hide..Its amazing how many people think they are the judge, jury and executioner on here..Everyone on here is an 800 lb bully when you are behind a keyboard..LOL

If you want to know the true story, I have an offer for you..Send me $200 and I will give you the straight scoop..I know it sounds pricey but it includes:

1) I will pick you up in the now most wanted truck in Arizona..The Bowtech truck
2) Bring you to my house for dinner while I tell you the TRUE story..
3) Make you an official member of my "Bowtech Posse" so now you too can be somebody..
4) Outfit you with an official Bowtech hat, license plate and sticker..Now you can be an official staff shooter or employee with only these credentials.
5) Take you back to your house where you and your family can have a picture shoot with me and the Bowtech posse with the Bowtech truck..

This would make a great gift for that special someone in your life..Order now because it won't last long..

Believe me.............more to come
 
That is what is so funny.....lol. Guys like you sitting by your computer waiting for it.
 
He hasn't said anything. Just waiting for his side of the story!

Donnie :)


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-22-11 AT 11:01PM (MST)[p]Sign me up. 200 bucks for some cool bowtech stuff and a line of BS over dinner.
 
>Nobody's saying anything. That's weird, you
>all had so much to
>say before.


whats there to talk about - he didnt say anything about what happened DUH
 
>He hasn't said anything. Just waiting
>for his side of the
>story!
>
>Donnie :)
>
>
>"The deadliest weapon in the world
>is a Marine and his
>rifle." General John J. "Black
>Jack" Pershing, US Army
>"Most men go through life wondering
>if they made a difference,
>Marines don't have that problem."
>President Ronald Regan


thats hilarious - cz didnt even notice - guess richard aint watchin - sorry but thats funny ya little }>
 
Damn sounds like a good deal to me. I would jump on it but im already a proud member!
 
Enough of the crap! Lets get this over with so everyone can get on with their lives..LOL

Lets set the stage for you:

Me: Not a rich guy at all...just a working guy like everyone else..And yes I am the hunter.
My Posse: My nephew and two of my best friends that I grew up with in San Manuel...I did hire a guide and he was with me..It was a guide only trip and not the full blown fully guided deal..First time I have ever hired a guide to hunt elk..I just didn't know the unit and didn't have a lot of time to scout it..

Unfortunately this was a huge misunderstanding...In the end it turns out pretty good, and I know most of you don't want to hear that..

One wise poster on here said perception is their reality...and he couldn't have been more correct..

Opening morning had me on the flat where the bull has been seen numerous times..(One thing never mentioned is that this bull lived very close to a main road and there were camps surrounding him pretty much..) My two friends (or posse whichever you prefer) were on a hill south of the bull and my nephew was on a peak north of the bull..My nephew glassed him up at first light..and then my buddies picked him up too..They radioed me the bull was feeding my way..I was 300 yards or so south of the bull..(yes, I admit to using radios...however you feel about that, really doesn't concern me) My nephew had a good view of the elk but he was glassing them from over a mile away...So we were sitting there waiting for the bull to feed to me, when my nephew radioed me and said the elk are running..We had no clue to as why..He said they are gone in a cloud of dust..So we packed our stuff and started walking back to our truck..We get to my truck and start heading up the road when my nephew radios me that the elk are heading towards him..So we drive over to where he is parked..On the drive over we see a red ford or dodge pickup truck and two hunters getting into the truck exactly below where the elk were and we figured these dudes bumped them out of there..WE HAD NO CLUE THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE IN THE AREA OTHER THAN THOSE TWO GUYS WE SAW IN THE RED TRUCK DRIVING AWAY..And I know Craig and his guide didn't know it either...

We park next to my nephews truck..Get my gear out and start heading into the area..Once we are going in my nephew radios me that the bull is 80 yards from him and he is bleeding from the hump..Looks like he has been hit..We are stunned to hear this because we didn't understand why someone would shoot a bull like this and not even try to look for him..(remember at this time we had no clue Craig and his guide were in there)..So once we hear he is hit..My nephew said the bull has bugled about three times..his cows split up and half of them left him..The bull was last seen in that cut below my nephew and he said I believe he is going to bed down..So once we know the bull is hit and has blood on him, we back out and go to my truck..And head back up to camp which is about a mile away.. My nephew said the bull was hit very high in the hump of his back and was not really bleeding bad..at least from his vantage..Keep in mind that the hit elk had run over 1.3 miles and jumped a fence to get to where my nephew was..

So we are all back at camp discussing the events when the hunter and his guide come into camp..Let me say this before I go any further...Looking through the eyes of the guide and his hunter I can truly see why they thought I was chasing "their bull"...But we never saw them waving at me as stated..They never yelled or anything when I got out of my truck to go into where the bull had went..

The guide was heated and I understand from his point of view why...Nobody ever came into camp asking for help..It was a yelling match from the word go..So insted of us helping each other out it gets into a full blown argument, which was not started by any of my "posse"..I truly belive if calmer heads prevailed that day we could have been their best friends..They didn't want to listen and off they went..

Game and fish comes later and gets our side of the story..He doens't write anyone up..Asked me if I wanted to press charges for disorderly conduct and I said no, that I didn't want to ruin anyones hunt just didn't want any more trouble..I later find out that they too could have pressed disorderly concuct charges on me and didn't..

Game and fish brought the hunter into camp..I told him our story..He said he didn't know what happened between me and the guide because he was closing the gate..we camped right at a gate..After telling the hunter where we last seen the bull we told him to go kill him..I told him if he needed any help we were there, and if he did recover the bull please bring him by because I would have loved to seen him up close..I don't recall telling them they have two days to recover him but I did tell them I wouldn't go in there for awhile.. What pisses me off is me and the hunter had a very civil discussion, looked each other in the eyes and shook hands and thought this would be the end of it..But he had to come on here spewing venom, half truths and lies..Putting my license plate on here was also idiotic..If he wanted any info on me he knew exactly where I was camped..Be a big boy and come and talk to me like a man, not going home to get on the internet to do a smear campaign on me..Anyone that knows me, knows this, that I am an ethical hunter and would do anything to help anyone..

We didn't go into that canyon two hours later as stated..We didn't go in there for a few days...Perception again...They were on the top of the canyon where we told him the bull was last seen and they glassed my truck over a mile away to the south...And they saw two guys in this canyon cow calling..So of course, IT HAD TO BE ME..It wasn't..There was a camp next to us that had 8 bull tags and I believe it could have been a couple of those guys or someone else in there hunting.....It wasn't a very remote spot and like I said there were camps everywhere around there..They never had visual confirmation it was me, they jumped to conclusions...and assumed and you know what happens when you do that..

Later on we were contacted by Stan (AZ402) that the guide wanted to talk to me..So me and the guide got together and discussed the events..We agreed that the turn of events were unfortunate for everyone..I told him how I understand how it looked in their eyes and don't blame him one bit for thinking that..Bottom line is we never saw the hunter or the guide in there at all..We both agree that all this internet crap needed to be nuked..We get ahold of Stan and said nuke these threads if you can..Stan is completely innocent and everyone jumps him because the hunter and the guide weren't completely on the same page..Another misunderstanding..I don't personally know Stan, but I do know that he is well thought of by many, and I have no reason to think otherwise..I thank him for trying to help us out..He didn't have to..

As for the million dollar question, no the elk was never recovered that I know of..I hunted the whole hunt and came back yesterday afternoon..Thats why I had not responded yet..I was hunting...I came home with tag soup and I bet that thrills a lot of you..Tough hunt...not much rutting..I did pass some nice bulls that maybe looking back I should have shot..but I wanted a monster or nothing...and I rolled the dice and lost..

Here is where it becomes a win win situation..After talking to Craig's guide we actually became friends..He tried like hell to help me kill a bull after his hunters were gone..He didn't have to but really wanted to help me..My guide was only hired for seven days..So we were hunting by ourselves after this..I want to thank Craig's guide for his courtesy and help..He is a stand up guy that I would hunt with any day..

At the end of the day it was an unfortunate situation all the way around..I am still somewhat pissed at Craig though..because of false information..


Here is my rebuttal to Craig

1. We have been up here in unit 10 for 2 weeks prior to the hunt scouting this bull every day.

2. The other hunters claim to have been up here scouting for 4 weeks but they were not, their pop up trailer has been up here but they were not prior to the day before the hunt.
FALSE!We knew this bull was in there as were a lot of people knew about the bull..We had two scouting trips in the prior month and saw the big bull.

3. As soon as I shot the bull they started cow calling to turn him around back towards them.
FALSE..I never saw the bull let alone cow call at him..I belive the cow call must have come from th hunters that were parked directly below where the elk were..

4. They had spotters on all the surrounding mountains.
Somewhat true..Had my nephew on one mountain and two buddies on another..

5. Once the bull got to the meadow the other hunter, which has told people he is with Bowtech, whether he is a shooter or rep I don't know. I do know he has a Bowtec sticker in the back window of his truck and across his windshield, so I am just assuming he is affiliated in some way. He knowingly proceeded in his vehicle to cut us off while we were on foot, putting himself between my buddy and the bull.
FALSE..I never once said I was with Bowtech..He says that I said this then says he assumes this because of the sticker in my back windshield..Nothing on front windshield..Also do have a bowtech license plate in the front.. This makes me laugh because three weeks before the hunt I was shooting a PSE Omen Pro but PSE couldn't get my limb to stop creaking so I decided to get a bowtech..My old easton sticker was getting old so I put a bowtech sticker on it..LOL Had no clue how big a deal this sticker would turn out to be! I didn't cut anyone off..never saw the guys..

6. My buddy ran to the other hunters truck to flag him down to tell him to back off.
I believe this happened..I just didn't see the guy..And that is the truth..He never yelled or anything..never saw him at this time..If I did, believe me, I would be the first to back off..

7. The other hunter looked at my buddy, then grabbed his bow out of his truck and took off after the bull.
I believe this again is perception..I never saw him but after talking to the guide he said it did look like I looked at him..and I believe the guide...I just never saw him..

8. My buddy was waving at the other hunter spotters to get their attention. All they did was wave back.
His guide did wave at one of my friend and they did wave back, but they were a mile away and had no clue who he was and my guys did wave back to him..

9. We ran back to our trucks to drive back around the hill to where they were at. Once we made it back around we called Game & Fish and notified them of the situation and they were on their way out.
One of the few truths..lol

10. When we came back with our trucks and went through the gate we noticed their camp was right there. Which by that time they were back at their camp and we were able to ask why they did that.
FALSE!!!!!!!! They never asked a damn thing..They just accused and yelled..

11. The conversation then turned into a confrontation, which was not our intention at all.
FALSE!!!! It was confrontation from the word go when they pulled into our camp on their part and after being yelled at I did get in their faces too because no one would listen to reason

12. They admitted to knowing we were on the bull.
Again, FALSE!!! We never saw them until they were in our camp..This lie pisses me off..

13. They admitted knowing the bull was shot.
TRUE..We admitted knowing the bull was shot after my nephew told us..Once we knew we backed out of there..If I was pushing that bull, I wouldn't have been in camp, but out there in front of them..
14. And the spotters admitted to seeing us tracking the bull.
FALSE..The first time they saw the guide was when he was walking around my truck..

15. They admitted to putting their hunter in between us and the bull so he could get on him.
FALSE AGAIN!! We never knew they were there..

16. Yes my shot could have been better the entrance was 5-6 inches below his spine on the right side behind his shoulder blade and exited in the same position only 7 inches lower on his left side. It was a fatal shot; I most definitely took his left lung.
From what the hunter told me he shot from his knees..The bull was in a flat..I am no physicist but if you shot him from your knees and your arrow enters 5-6 inches below the spine how could it exit lower?

17. They still proceeded after the bull after knowing all the facts and knowing that I hit him. They followed him to where he tried to bed, and then kicked him out of that.
FALSE..The bull never bedded from what we know..My nephew thought he was going to bed in that cut, but not sure if he did because we all backed out of there..That is the biggest lie of all, is that we jumped the bull from his bed..Just an outright lie..

18. We were on good blood, if they had not unethically pursued him he would have bedded down and died.
If the blood was so good, why did it stop? He jumped a fence which the game and fish warden told me the blood had pretty much stopped..Seems like if he was bleeding good he would either not jump the fence or by jumping the fence blood would have gushed out of him..

19. After Game & Fish arrived to help resolve the situation the guy with the big Bowtech sticker in his back window, that claims to be with Bowtech, told Game & Fish that he would give us 2 days to recover the bull without pressure from him or his spotters pushing the bull.
FALSE! Again never claimed to be with Bowtech..Again, assumptions..

20. Game and Fish took a picture of the bloody arrow that I shot the bull with.
I would guess this is true..I have no clue about that..Game and fish never told me..

21. In less than 2 hours of Game and Fish leaving we went back in on a high point to glass and they were already back in there after the bull.
FALSE AGAIN! My truck was over a mile away and we were hunting in the opposite direction..I do know that the guide said they saw two guys in there and assuemd it was me, but it wasn't..Like I said..tons of hunters around this area..

22. I would have been able to accomplish my dream and everyone else?s dream in this world if it wasn?t due to selfishness, greedy and unethical hunter.
FALSE..We could have been his best friend that day if they would have just listened..

I know you all wanted a mudslinging contest and its not going to happen..I am not naming any of the guides or anyone else..No reason to..

Even with the unfortunate cirumstances, I am glad that Craig's guide and I got to hash it all out..I wish Craig would have been as open minded..At the end of the day, I actually gained a friend (Craig's guide)out of this mess..

I want to thank my "Posse" and Craig's guide for a memorable hunt...Even though we ate tag soup, we gave it hell..Hunted hard for 13 days..Couldn't hunt the 14th because the blisters on my feet wouldn't allow me to even get my boots on..lol

Here is the one undisputed fact:
Craig had the shot of a lifetime..20 yard broadside shot at a monster bull that was pushing that magical mark..And he blew it..That will hurt him a lot longer than me saying anything bad about him..I am sure when he thinks of elk hunting, he will forever want that shot back..If he makes that shot none of this happens..Its unfortunate for the magnificent elk that was hit..I hoped he lived..and believe he may have..

Finally............THE END!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-11 AT 02:17PM (MST)[p]THANK YOU

filled in the spaces nicely, not all of them

what happened to the bull, was he seen agin later in the hunt?
 
I'm glad you followed up from your first post because I thought that was all you were going to say about it. I truly even doubted that post was from the actual hunter. I hope most guys posting on here had the same feeling as me. That given the set of facts that were given we felt what was done was wrong, but were open to the other side of the story. This appeared to be the case with the guys giving their opinion on the situation, except for maybe the ones directly involved. I'm also glad you took the time to give such a detailed account. It answered all of my questions. Even if this thread didn't matter that much in the scheme of things it made life a little more interesting anyway. I think it goes to show that most people will do the right thing given the chance.


"I'm just a guy in front of a computer, wishing he was out hunting, living vicariously through the hunting stories of others." Mountainman99
 
Keep'in it real!

To everyone..........

Happy hunting, be safe and happy New Year, save your firepower for the ANTI HUNTERS!

Im out.....
 
Dblung,

Does this mean we have to get back to our normal, boring days at work? Good thing the rifle hunt started today, maybe someone will start another "Very sad for our Sport" thread. Sorry you had to eat tag soup. I find it often tastes better with some salsa on it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-23-11 AT 05:00PM (MST)[p]>Dblung,
>
>Does this mean we have to
>get back to our normal,
>boring days at work? Good
>thing the rifle hunt started
>today, maybe someone will start
>another "Very sad for our
>Sport" thread. Sorry you had
>to eat tag soup. I
>find it often tastes better
>with some salsa on it.
>


It's best when wrapped with bacon......LOL
 
Thought you would feel that way. Just on this forum to backup my buddy. I'm no different than any of you guys. Call out your buddies, and you would go to bat for them. So this will probably be my last post...peace out.
 
If I were MR. BOWTECH I would never have even answered the questions on here. It is none of our business and I think people of our age have had enough confrontations to realize that when people get worked up their facts aren't necessarily the truth.

If I were MR BOWTECH I would have played along and painted myself to be a total villan. Why? because whats in a mans heart is what matters not what other people think about him. If we all go around worrying what everyone else thinks about us and try to always fix it we will all have completely wasted our lives.

My motto is that I can care less what you think about me. If your not my wife or kids your thoughts of me are of no concern. This is why I'm cold and confrontational on here. IT DOESN'T MATTER! be good to your friends and family and treat everyone with respect and let god deal with the feelings. MR. BOWTECH did right by god and that is the end. He only owes god an explanation and noone else.

I answer to one and that is all!
 
Thanks for the other side of the story. Sound like there is alot of truth in it. It's always good to hear both sides.

I wish some-one had ended up with the bull. Well maybe a rifle hunter will how put a tag on his rack.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
dbllung?

You looked at him, but didn't see him?

Enough blood to be seen a mile away, but that was only after you went in after the bull? Your guy on the radio didn't tell you that before you went after the bull?

Your guy on the hill with the radio waved back at the guy before or after seeing the blood? Or your other spotter announced it over the two way to you that there was blood??



Of couse all eye withnesses have a different story.

Never mind, it's none of our business.


I think it is great that you were able to get a shot (pun intended) in on the guy in the end of your...err.. explaination.

I wonder how you would have felt on the other side of this deal?
 
Sorry boy's.....still stinks. Smell is from both sides. Read it from top to bottom.....can't argue that.
 
The only thing that's sad for our sport here is posting second hand he said she said Crap. Both parties stories just sound like what happens on a unit 10 hunt. A lot of hunters chasing a few giants. It gets very competitive and feelings get hurt. Keep the rumors in the Utard threads.
 
No, Craig got on and posted first hand stuff and we had to wait a bit for DL.

It is an important topic and the things that are heppening on these hunts as far as intimidation and likes need to be dealt with.

If you don't think so maybe you're part of the problem.

"Both parties stories just sound like what happens on a unit 10 hunt."

If thats the case things need to freakin change.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
sounds like the spotters and radios just about "hunted" down that 400 bull until that darn Craig came in and tried to get it done the old fashioned way....what the heck is this world coming too?

If Craig would have had a bigger posse and some radios they would have seen the other posse and this whole thing could have been avoided......if you cant hunt the "new" way, stay on the porch!

VERY SAD FOR OUR SPORT INDEED!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-11 AT 01:59PM (MST)[p]>No, Craig got on and posted
>first hand stuff and we
>had to wait a bit
>for DL.
>
>It is an important topic and
>the things that are heppening
>on these hunts as far
>as intimidation and likes need
>to be dealt with.
>
>If you don't think so maybe
>you're part of the problem.
>
>
>"Both parties stories just sound like
>what happens on a unit
>10 hunt."
>
>If thats the case things need
>to freakin change.
>
>"The deadliest weapon in the world
>is a Marine and his
>rifle." General John J. "Black
>Jack" Pershing, US Army
>"Most men go through life wondering
>if they made a difference,
>Marines don't have that problem."
>President Ronald Regan


Caelkhunter started the post and drug both parties into it. I am sure his buddy appreciates him typing his conversations up while he is in the field. Way to start a bunch of crap you dont have any business in. Most of the information was made up, or grossly exagerated as often happens in the Utah forums (why I dont know, just an observation). I stand by my comments that this stuff often happens on hunts in 9,10, 13 ect. You get that tag of a lifetime in your hand and people take it pretty serious. The problem is that there are 200 other hunters that are thinking the same thing. Your going to cross paths during the hunt and confrontations can happen. What doesnt happen is the made up stuff you internet hunters dreamed up prior to getting the real story. Most people respect the other hunters but at the same time they arent just going to walk the other way when its a public land hunt. I have had similar incidents where I thought a different group was screwing me or did something intentional to cut me off from a bull. Your mind really gets going with conspiracy theories because your tired, running out of time, frustrated, and realizing your chances are running out as the hunt goes on. When you confront the other hunter(s) you usually get rational reasoning for what and why they did what they did. I am sure there are exceptions, but most of these posts get the lynch mob going, then fizzle when the truth comes out. Like I wrote before, the only thing sad about this is the way it was handled by the posters.
 
I remember the good old days when killing a 300" bull was a great accomplishment. These days it seems as if nobody cares about a 300" bull and everybody wants a 400" bull. Very sad what this sport has come to. Im just happy hunting the least favorite units chasing 300's-350" bulls.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-11 AT 03:29PM (MST)[p]> I remember the good old
>days when killing a 300"
>bull was a great accomplishment.
>These days it seems as
>if nobody cares about a
>300" bull and everybody wants
>a 400" bull. Very sad
>what this sport has come
>to. Im just happy hunting
>the least favorite units chasing
>300's-350" bulls.


Same here. I remember when some one killing a 350-360 bull was a huge deal....

I think it has became this way is due to the internet. I seriously think the internet has changed hunting.
 
New to both archery and elk hunting. I have taken a cow with my rifle. I would be happy with anything with my bow and to take a bull with my bow would be absolutely amazing, a bull with a rifle would be fantastic also.
 

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