Enough of the crap! Lets get this over with so everyone can get on with their lives..LOL
Lets set the stage for you:
Me: Not a rich guy at all...just a working guy like everyone else..And yes I am the hunter.
My Posse: My nephew and two of my best friends that I grew up with in San Manuel...I did hire a guide and he was with me..It was a guide only trip and not the full blown fully guided deal..First time I have ever hired a guide to hunt elk..I just didn't know the unit and didn't have a lot of time to scout it..
Unfortunately this was a huge misunderstanding...In the end it turns out pretty good, and I know most of you don't want to hear that..
One wise poster on here said perception is their reality...and he couldn't have been more correct..
Opening morning had me on the flat where the bull has been seen numerous times..(One thing never mentioned is that this bull lived very close to a main road and there were camps surrounding him pretty much..) My two friends (or posse whichever you prefer) were on a hill south of the bull and my nephew was on a peak north of the bull..My nephew glassed him up at first light..and then my buddies picked him up too..They radioed me the bull was feeding my way..I was 300 yards or so south of the bull..(yes, I admit to using radios...however you feel about that, really doesn't concern me) My nephew had a good view of the elk but he was glassing them from over a mile away...So we were sitting there waiting for the bull to feed to me, when my nephew radioed me and said the elk are running..We had no clue to as why..He said they are gone in a cloud of dust..So we packed our stuff and started walking back to our truck..We get to my truck and start heading up the road when my nephew radios me that the elk are heading towards him..So we drive over to where he is parked..On the drive over we see a red ford or dodge pickup truck and two hunters getting into the truck exactly below where the elk were and we figured these dudes bumped them out of there..WE HAD NO CLUE THERE WAS ANYONE ELSE IN THE AREA OTHER THAN THOSE TWO GUYS WE SAW IN THE RED TRUCK DRIVING AWAY..And I know Craig and his guide didn't know it either...
We park next to my nephews truck..Get my gear out and start heading into the area..Once we are going in my nephew radios me that the bull is 80 yards from him and he is bleeding from the hump..Looks like he has been hit..We are stunned to hear this because we didn't understand why someone would shoot a bull like this and not even try to look for him..(remember at this time we had no clue Craig and his guide were in there)..So once we hear he is hit..My nephew said the bull has bugled about three times..his cows split up and half of them left him..The bull was last seen in that cut below my nephew and he said I believe he is going to bed down..So once we know the bull is hit and has blood on him, we back out and go to my truck..And head back up to camp which is about a mile away.. My nephew said the bull was hit very high in the hump of his back and was not really bleeding bad..at least from his vantage..Keep in mind that the hit elk had run over 1.3 miles and jumped a fence to get to where my nephew was..
So we are all back at camp discussing the events when the hunter and his guide come into camp..Let me say this before I go any further...Looking through the eyes of the guide and his hunter I can truly see why they thought I was chasing "their bull"...But we never saw them waving at me as stated..They never yelled or anything when I got out of my truck to go into where the bull had went..
The guide was heated and I understand from his point of view why...Nobody ever came into camp asking for help..It was a yelling match from the word go..So insted of us helping each other out it gets into a full blown argument, which was not started by any of my "posse"..I truly belive if calmer heads prevailed that day we could have been their best friends..They didn't want to listen and off they went..
Game and fish comes later and gets our side of the story..He doens't write anyone up..Asked me if I wanted to press charges for disorderly conduct and I said no, that I didn't want to ruin anyones hunt just didn't want any more trouble..I later find out that they too could have pressed disorderly concuct charges on me and didn't..
Game and fish brought the hunter into camp..I told him our story..He said he didn't know what happened between me and the guide because he was closing the gate..we camped right at a gate..After telling the hunter where we last seen the bull we told him to go kill him..I told him if he needed any help we were there, and if he did recover the bull please bring him by because I would have loved to seen him up close..I don't recall telling them they have two days to recover him but I did tell them I wouldn't go in there for awhile.. What pisses me off is me and the hunter had a very civil discussion, looked each other in the eyes and shook hands and thought this would be the end of it..But he had to come on here spewing venom, half truths and lies..Putting my license plate on here was also idiotic..If he wanted any info on me he knew exactly where I was camped..Be a big boy and come and talk to me like a man, not going home to get on the internet to do a smear campaign on me..Anyone that knows me, knows this, that I am an ethical hunter and would do anything to help anyone..
We didn't go into that canyon two hours later as stated..We didn't go in there for a few days...Perception again...They were on the top of the canyon where we told him the bull was last seen and they glassed my truck over a mile away to the south...And they saw two guys in this canyon cow calling..So of course, IT HAD TO BE ME..It wasn't..There was a camp next to us that had 8 bull tags and I believe it could have been a couple of those guys or someone else in there hunting.....It wasn't a very remote spot and like I said there were camps everywhere around there..They never had visual confirmation it was me, they jumped to conclusions...and assumed and you know what happens when you do that..
Later on we were contacted by Stan (AZ402) that the guide wanted to talk to me..So me and the guide got together and discussed the events..We agreed that the turn of events were unfortunate for everyone..I told him how I understand how it looked in their eyes and don't blame him one bit for thinking that..Bottom line is we never saw the hunter or the guide in there at all..We both agree that all this internet crap needed to be nuked..We get ahold of Stan and said nuke these threads if you can..Stan is completely innocent and everyone jumps him because the hunter and the guide weren't completely on the same page..Another misunderstanding..I don't personally know Stan, but I do know that he is well thought of by many, and I have no reason to think otherwise..I thank him for trying to help us out..He didn't have to..
As for the million dollar question, no the elk was never recovered that I know of..I hunted the whole hunt and came back yesterday afternoon..Thats why I had not responded yet..I was hunting...I came home with tag soup and I bet that thrills a lot of you..Tough hunt...not much rutting..I did pass some nice bulls that maybe looking back I should have shot..but I wanted a monster or nothing...and I rolled the dice and lost..
Here is where it becomes a win win situation..After talking to Craig's guide we actually became friends..He tried like hell to help me kill a bull after his hunters were gone..He didn't have to but really wanted to help me..My guide was only hired for seven days..So we were hunting by ourselves after this..I want to thank Craig's guide for his courtesy and help..He is a stand up guy that I would hunt with any day..
At the end of the day it was an unfortunate situation all the way around..I am still somewhat pissed at Craig though..because of false information..
Here is my rebuttal to Craig
1. We have been up here in unit 10 for 2 weeks prior to the hunt scouting this bull every day.
2. The other hunters claim to have been up here scouting for 4 weeks but they were not, their pop up trailer has been up here but they were not prior to the day before the hunt.
FALSE!We knew this bull was in there as were a lot of people knew about the bull..We had two scouting trips in the prior month and saw the big bull.
3. As soon as I shot the bull they started cow calling to turn him around back towards them.
FALSE..I never saw the bull let alone cow call at him..I belive the cow call must have come from th hunters that were parked directly below where the elk were..
4. They had spotters on all the surrounding mountains.
Somewhat true..Had my nephew on one mountain and two buddies on another..
5. Once the bull got to the meadow the other hunter, which has told people he is with Bowtech, whether he is a shooter or rep I don't know. I do know he has a Bowtec sticker in the back window of his truck and across his windshield, so I am just assuming he is affiliated in some way. He knowingly proceeded in his vehicle to cut us off while we were on foot, putting himself between my buddy and the bull.
FALSE..I never once said I was with Bowtech..He says that I said this then says he assumes this because of the sticker in my back windshield..Nothing on front windshield..Also do have a bowtech license plate in the front.. This makes me laugh because three weeks before the hunt I was shooting a PSE Omen Pro but PSE couldn't get my limb to stop creaking so I decided to get a bowtech..My old easton sticker was getting old so I put a bowtech sticker on it..LOL Had no clue how big a deal this sticker would turn out to be! I didn't cut anyone off..never saw the guys..
6. My buddy ran to the other hunters truck to flag him down to tell him to back off.
I believe this happened..I just didn't see the guy..And that is the truth..He never yelled or anything..never saw him at this time..If I did, believe me, I would be the first to back off..
7. The other hunter looked at my buddy, then grabbed his bow out of his truck and took off after the bull.
I believe this again is perception..I never saw him but after talking to the guide he said it did look like I looked at him..and I believe the guide...I just never saw him..
8. My buddy was waving at the other hunter spotters to get their attention. All they did was wave back.
His guide did wave at one of my friend and they did wave back, but they were a mile away and had no clue who he was and my guys did wave back to him..
9. We ran back to our trucks to drive back around the hill to where they were at. Once we made it back around we called Game & Fish and notified them of the situation and they were on their way out.
One of the few truths..lol
10. When we came back with our trucks and went through the gate we noticed their camp was right there. Which by that time they were back at their camp and we were able to ask why they did that.
FALSE!!!!!!!! They never asked a damn thing..They just accused and yelled..
11. The conversation then turned into a confrontation, which was not our intention at all.
FALSE!!!! It was confrontation from the word go when they pulled into our camp on their part and after being yelled at I did get in their faces too because no one would listen to reason
12. They admitted to knowing we were on the bull.
Again, FALSE!!! We never saw them until they were in our camp..This lie pisses me off..
13. They admitted knowing the bull was shot.
TRUE..We admitted knowing the bull was shot after my nephew told us..Once we knew we backed out of there..If I was pushing that bull, I wouldn't have been in camp, but out there in front of them..
14. And the spotters admitted to seeing us tracking the bull.
FALSE..The first time they saw the guide was when he was walking around my truck..
15. They admitted to putting their hunter in between us and the bull so he could get on him.
FALSE AGAIN!! We never knew they were there..
16. Yes my shot could have been better the entrance was 5-6 inches below his spine on the right side behind his shoulder blade and exited in the same position only 7 inches lower on his left side. It was a fatal shot; I most definitely took his left lung.
From what the hunter told me he shot from his knees..The bull was in a flat..I am no physicist but if you shot him from your knees and your arrow enters 5-6 inches below the spine how could it exit lower?
17. They still proceeded after the bull after knowing all the facts and knowing that I hit him. They followed him to where he tried to bed, and then kicked him out of that.
FALSE..The bull never bedded from what we know..My nephew thought he was going to bed in that cut, but not sure if he did because we all backed out of there..That is the biggest lie of all, is that we jumped the bull from his bed..Just an outright lie..
18. We were on good blood, if they had not unethically pursued him he would have bedded down and died.
If the blood was so good, why did it stop? He jumped a fence which the game and fish warden told me the blood had pretty much stopped..Seems like if he was bleeding good he would either not jump the fence or by jumping the fence blood would have gushed out of him..
19. After Game & Fish arrived to help resolve the situation the guy with the big Bowtech sticker in his back window, that claims to be with Bowtech, told Game & Fish that he would give us 2 days to recover the bull without pressure from him or his spotters pushing the bull.
FALSE! Again never claimed to be with Bowtech..Again, assumptions..
20. Game and Fish took a picture of the bloody arrow that I shot the bull with.
I would guess this is true..I have no clue about that..Game and fish never told me..
21. In less than 2 hours of Game and Fish leaving we went back in on a high point to glass and they were already back in there after the bull.
FALSE AGAIN! My truck was over a mile away and we were hunting in the opposite direction..I do know that the guide said they saw two guys in there and assuemd it was me, but it wasn't..Like I said..tons of hunters around this area..
22. I would have been able to accomplish my dream and everyone else?s dream in this world if it wasn?t due to selfishness, greedy and unethical hunter.
FALSE..We could have been his best friend that day if they would have just listened..
I know you all wanted a mudslinging contest and its not going to happen..I am not naming any of the guides or anyone else..No reason to..
Even with the unfortunate cirumstances, I am glad that Craig's guide and I got to hash it all out..I wish Craig would have been as open minded..At the end of the day, I actually gained a friend (Craig's guide)out of this mess..
I want to thank my "Posse" and Craig's guide for a memorable hunt...Even though we ate tag soup, we gave it hell..Hunted hard for 13 days..Couldn't hunt the 14th because the blisters on my feet wouldn't allow me to even get my boots on..lol
Here is the one undisputed fact:
Craig had the shot of a lifetime..20 yard broadside shot at a monster bull that was pushing that magical mark..And he blew it..That will hurt him a lot longer than me saying anything bad about him..I am sure when he thinks of elk hunting, he will forever want that shot back..If he makes that shot none of this happens..Its unfortunate for the magnificent elk that was hit..I hoped he lived..and believe he may have..
Finally............THE END!!
