wasatch rattlers

[fullthrottle]

Thought I would do a little scouting this weekend, just a quick overnight trip above Farmington. And let me tell you the damn snakes where out. Saw 4 different rattlers, all but 1 rattled. No good, I sure don't like the idea of sneaking up on a muley in the thick brush with snakes around like that. I've been hunting the Wasatch for a while and run into snakes once in a while, but 4 in one day is way too many.

 

[deerslayer88]

Too bad its illegal to kill them, the sure taste good.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

 

[fullthrottle]

Whooooops!

 

[grizzly]

They are protected wildlife. It is just like killing any other protected animal.

Grizzly

 

[treedagain]

whoooops.lol....its a snake why would you want to protect it? I do not like them one bit


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait

 

[fullthrottle]

Ya I would never do such a thing. There such a neat critter to have around in abundance. Really make me want to take my little kids out on remote hikes and enjoy the great outdoors. Seens how they are so easy to see and don't rattle half the time. Hey but they do help control those nasty little rodents, that the numerous hawks, owls, and foxes can't keep up with. Boy we live in one hell of a society.

 

[elkassassin]

Get ahold of utahbigbull!








[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[bucklover]

I'm beginning to think it is more than a coincidence. Every time I see a rattle snake, a rock falls from out of nowhere, and smashes it's head. I must be bad luck.

 

[elkun]

the only good snake is a dead one,and who ever passed a law not to kill them needs as azzz kicking,,,,,what is the matter with this state,,,,?

 

[grizzly]

So wildlife laws should only be obeyed if you aren't scared of something? Or does wildlife only have value if you can buy a tag? Don't all animals have value?

Just as I won't shoot a fawn deer just because I found it laying in the weeds, I won't kill a rattlesnake either. Animals don't deserve to die simply because of fear by some coward with a rock. I honestly thought you guys would have more respect for life and law than this.

If a rattlesnake is in a campground or a trail where people commonly walk, call Animal Control and they will remove it (or do what I do and remove it yourself)... killing it is just the ignorant and wanton destruction of wildlife.

One more piece of advice for people worried about their dogs getting bit... get it vaccinated for rattlesnakes. It works great. My dog has her booster shot every year with her check-up. My buddies vaccinated dog got bit on the nose in Wyoming last year, it swelled up like a bee sting for a few hours and went away. No harmful side-effects.

Grizzly

 

[fullthrottle]

Huh! A fawn is alittle different than a rattler. Also it's not like these snakes are even close to being an endangered species. Why would you not allow any to be killed is irresponsible. They have obviously grown in population. I have seen more and more snakes every year and the news is always talking about them being a problem around the wasatch front. I don't mind some snakes around but don't just let them flourish. More people are out hiking and enjoying the outdoors than ever why would you want a over abundance of rattlers around. That dosnt seem too bright someone is bound to get bit. They should be manage just like anything else. Hell colorado has a season for them and Texas along with other states have rattle round ups. I'm just saying as hard as they are to see/find you shouldn't be seeing 4 on a major trail in a few hours time. Your just asking for someone to get bit. We hunt deer right? I would much rather see them being more tightly manage then a freakin snake. Some groups of people piss and moan about the deer being dangerous on our highways and thats fine I agree somewhat. What's the difference with too many snakes around our most popular hiking, biking, and camping trails in utah? Don't you see the danger in that. Boy you guys are right about everyone having an opinion sorry for the rant. It just seems like to me they shouldn't go unmanaged.

 

[Deerlove]

If it's by a trail its getting a rock, if not it slithers away.

 

[greatbasin]

They do have a place in the ecosystem but they also have value and need to be managed like any other wildlife.

 

[grizzly]

If there are too many and they need to be managed, then get a season for them and manage them LAWFULLY. My point is that a total disregard for wildlife laws is just that... unlawful killing of protected game is just that.

And, this discussion can quickly turn into the fact that far more non-venomous snakes are killed by fearful people with rocks than rattlers are killed. I see literally dozens of blow snakes with smashed heads for every rattler killed on trails... all because people are ignorant and afraid.

How somebody can kill a protected animal illegally and then brag about it on a website based on the lawful scientifically-managed taking of wildlife is beyond me. It reeks of slippery slope hypocrisy.

Grizzly

 

[bucklover]

Yes, rattle snakes have a lot of value. Just ask someone who has been bitten by one. The value (for others), can quickly climb up to $100,000.00. You add up, anti-venom shots, life flight, ambulance, hospital stay. side medications. Lost work time...The list goes on and on. Yep, they have lots of value, and it will come out of the victim's pockets, and belong to someone else.

 

[grizzly]

>Yes, rattle snakes have a lot
>of value. Just ask
>someone who has been bitten
>by one. The value (for
>others), can quickly climb up
>to $100,000.00. You add
>up, anti-venom shots, life flight,
>ambulance, hospital stay. side medications.
>Lost work time...The list goes
>on and on. Yep,
>they have lots of value,
>and it will come out
>of the victim's pockets, and
>belong to someone else.

What is the value of a dog bite? Or grizzly attack? Or swimming/drowning at the local pool? Or the 10 people killed on Utah highways this weekend alone?

Here are some facts for you---

40% of venomous snake bites (vsb) involve blood-alcohol greater than .1%.

1 in 3 vsb involve no venom (dry bites)

65% of all vsb are to hands or fingers by people handling the snakes (includes trying to kill them)

75% of all vsb victims are males between 19 - 30 years of age

15% of all vsb victims have been bitten before by a venomous snake

16% of all vsb are by "pets"

The USA averages 5 fatal snake bites per year.

Basically... don't get drunk and try to handle snakes and you will be fine. The odds of getting struck by a snake you were previously unaware of is exceedingly small and then there is a 30% chance that there was no envenomation.

Numbers don't lie. You want to talk about risk of death/injury... snakes are pretty low down the list. The bible starts with the snake in the Garden of Eden and from there people are pre-conditioned with fear... but it is unfounded.

Grizzly

 

[elkassassin]

>the only good snake is a
>dead one,and who ever passed
>a law not to kill
>them needs as azzz
>kicking,,,,,what is the matter with
>this state,,,,?


Bad elkun!

Bad!

You're Bad Mouthing the UDWR Huh?

No Tags for you for a while!













[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[Shummy]

As a guy in the dog business, I can tell you this. They are hell on dogs, snake vaccine or no.

 

[fullthrottle]

Boy this sure turned into something. Funny I really just wanted to give people a heads up to be on the lookout for snakes. As far as the division making decisions we all know that isn't the case. It's all political, activist B.S. But if they do make the decisions why would you admit it your basically calling yourself a dumbass. I never draw out anyways! Just kiddin. Kinda.... Everybody be safe out there and have a good season.

 

[bucklover]

Grizzly, the main difference between a grizzly, and a rattlesnake, is I can kill a rattlesnake, with a stick or a rock.

 

[muzz]

There not worth anything. Protecting them is ridiculous.
O--one
B--big
A--ass
M--mistake
A--america

 

[Vanilla]

67.3% of statistics are made up.

 

[Ticks N Tines]

>If there are too many and
>they need to be managed,
>then get a season for
>them and manage them LAWFULLY.
> My point is that
>a total disregard for wildlife
>laws is just that... unlawful
>killing of protected game is
>just that.

>How somebody can kill a protected
>animal illegally and then brag
>about it on a website
>based on the lawful scientifically-managed
>taking of wildlife is beyond
>me. It reeks of slippery
>slope hypocrisy.
>
>Grizzly


As much as I hate snakes and wish they were all dead, I have to agree with grizz on this one. These snakes are protected and killing them is no different than killing anything else that is protected. Is against the law and that's all there is to it.

If you feel like you need to break the law to kill a protected animal, what else are you willing to do?

 

[one_dryboot]

In the mountains I let them live. If they are close to where kids live and play, they will die every time. I will not take a chance of letting one live, only to bite a young child out playing in the sandbox the next day.

 

[Zeke]

>67.3% of statistics are made up.
>

LMAO
That's actually only 99% accurate and any statistical can be twisted to make a point.

Just ask the 30,000 dogs struck annually by venomous snakes what the dog owner think of snakes.

Zeke

 

[grizzly]

Educate yourselves...

"Curry et al. in Annals of Emergency Medicine 1989 18(6):658-63:"

Grizzly

 

[Zeke]

>Educate yourselves...
>
>"Curry et al. in Annals of
>Emergency Medicine 1989 18(6):658-63:"
>
>Grizzly

I love it when guys get condescending on MM!

PLEASE Grizzly, don't pat us on the head while you pat yourself on the back. It only makes you look like you're trying to fly!

Zeke

 

[grizzly]

Zeke, please review post 21, and your reply 24.

That is the definition of condescension.

My posts have been based solely on verifiable facts, science, and obedience of wildlife laws (this is the one that really blows my mind coming from a website dedicated to obeying wildlife laws).

I'll stand my stool on those three legs any day.

Grizzly

 

[Zeke]

Man You're getting all serious on us here!
Vanilla's post was flat out humorous, period. It's an OLD joke (new to the younsters).
I then played along with his "old" joke and ended with a bit of FACT about dogs bitten by venomous snakes.
You then suggested that WE get educated!
Is it that you don't like humor or you don't like facts?
Apology accepted.

Zeke

 

[grizzly]

Zeke, I never questioned what you said about dogs. They are significantly more likely to get bit than people (up to 20 times more likely) and more likely to die from the bite (25 times more likely). This is why I very early promoted vaccination for pets... it works wonders, I have seen it firsthand.

I tried to keep my posts positive and informative for people that are fearful without regard, but admittedly got snippy when simple-to-read scientific data was questioned as though I had pulled it out of thin air and then mocked as if it were false. I probably should have just provided the source without the comment. My bad. Obviously, my love for snakes tainted my judgment.

I have caught literally dozens, maybe hundreds, of snakes since my youth. Both venomous and non-venomous. I have had more snakes than I can even count as pets... but I have never had the need to kill one. My contention is that most snakes killed by people don't deserve to die. From the perspective of the animal, what is the difference in smashing a snakes head and shooting a doe in a field just because someone thinks there are too many? I think the animal doesn't see much difference, whether people feel they have different values or not.

My overall point is that people should think twice before killing snakes out of fear... whether that second-thought is because attempting to kill it dramatically increases the likelihood of getting bit themselves, or because it is against the law that we all claim to uphold.

Grizzly

 

[grizzly]

Here is a picture of a Rubber Boa that my wife and I caught sunning itself on a trail in Mt. Naomi Wilderness Area over the weekend.

These snakes are pretty rarely seen, so docile that they are often used to treat snake phobias, and the furthest north living member of the Boa family (being found as high as 10,000' and as far north as British Columbia). Their tails are shaped like their heads as hiding it is their only defense against predators, but will get into a mouse hole and eat an entire litter of young mice while defending against the adult mice with their stubby tail.

It is one of four snakes I saw that day and the knowledge that many would've seen this supremely docile snake on the trail and decided it should die out of hatred or fear breaks my heart.

Grizzly

 

[Shummy]

The vaccine isn't some miracle drug, don't try and pass it off as such. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. All the vets I know say it might buy you some time, at best, and I've talked with a bunch of them about it. It also might kill your dog, just getting the vaccine. I get the vaccine for all the dogs we run, I'll take the extra time it might buy me, and I've only had trouble with the vaccine twice, but I know damn well, if I have a snake bit dog I need to get to the vet immediately. Some dogs aren't really effected by a snake bite, and some are devastated by it, vaccinated or not.

 

[Zeke]

I must admit that I wouldn't want a old territorial doe or a rattler in my back yard where my grandkids could be bitten or attacked. I've never had to deal with either one in the valley but have dealt with bears and deer at our cabin (I said "dealt with" not killed).

I, unlike Grizzly, have been around very few venomous snakes but have been around tons of others (I don't know what they were but they all lived through the encounter).

I had a memorable experience with a huge rattle snake in Colorado on a scouting trip for bighorn.

My son and I crossed the Arkansas river and we were hiking up a steep rocky draw as we made our way to a sweet glassing point. As I passed a waist high, little, rocky ledge a giant of a shake flopped off the ledge between me and my son. I froze amd told my son to do the same. I could clearly see what it was but it never rattled or threatened us in any way. It could have bitten us both before we could move but did not. I was happy that we ran into an old veteran of a snake who had no interest in a pizzing match. He went his way and we went ours.
When I returned for the actual hunt, we were extremely careful but saw no snakes.

I have respect for them and maybe even a little fear but I don't run around looking to smash one.

Be safe out there and watch where you place your hands and feet!
Zeke

 

[hilltophunter]

Grizzly,

Have you ever seen a guy bit on the hand or finger by one of your harmless rattlers? I have.
A guy I know was out hunting years back and reached over a flat rock while climbing. A kind harmless rattler bit him on the hand. His hand and arm swelled up so big it split his skin. His fingers turned black and his arm was useless for quite a while. He still has problems with that hand and arm.

Not really harmless if you ask me.

 

[one_dryboot]

Grizzly,

Can you please post a better picture of your wife. Thanks.

 

[Stubaby]

I've had some encounters with them. Last fall I was out by miles city montana in October and it was a warm day. I was walking out to call a coyote(please don't start telling me how awesome they are and how they are misunderstood and should be left alone) on some state land and through the sage brush came that bone chilling sound. A rancher who owns land nearby was coming down the road in his pickup. I flagged him down. Let's just say there are 7 less of those suckers then there were. I think bull snakes are cool and leave them be. I don't do bees (allergic), rattlers, or grizzly bears. I have little kids and if I was in charge they'd all be dead(rattlers). There is a reason satan has always been referred to as the snake.

There are people who love coyotes and wolves but that doesn't change my views of them.

Big difference between shooting a doe and killing a rattle snake. Everywhere hunting is legal could use more mule deer. Very few people think rattle snakes are on the decline and we need to do all we can to help increase the populations.

Grizzly, I'll back you up on the fact that the law is the law. However, defending rattle snakes and saying that they need to be spared when encountered when legal is your opinion. Any consequences from less rattle snakes in the ecosystem is a consequence I'll gladly live with.

Rattle snakes should not be frivolously killed out of fear, they should dang near be exterminated because I hate them.

"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"

 

[grizzly]

>Grizzly,
>
> Can you
>please post a better picture
>of your wife.
>Thanks.

Haha. I cropped her out before I posted the picture. I don't trust the dirty minds of you guys. ;-)

Grizzly

 

[one_dryboot]

LMAO Grizz, I figured you did it on purpose.

 

[Zeke]

>>Grizzly,
>>
>> Can you
>>please post a better picture
>>of your wife.
>>Thanks.
>
>Haha. I cropped her out before
>I posted the picture. I
>don't trust the dirty minds
>of you guys. ;-)
>
>
>Grizzly

Grizzly,
Smart move!
Don't fall for the request from one_dry. I know him and his kind! (I'm just like him only a few decades older) LOL
Actually Briant is a pretty cool guy and I call him my friend even though he doesn't reciprocate... but that's another story.
Zeke

 

[rmanwill]

This was on KSL last month. Just some information that is not mine but was posted on KSL. Informs and awnsers some questions.

Why killing Utah rattlesnakes is illegal and when there are exceptions

SALT LAKE CITY ? The Division of Wildlife Resources reports that killing rattlesnakes in Utah has been illegal since 1989, but there are exceptions to the law.

Krissy Wilson, the native aquatic program coordinator for DWR, said rattlesnakes are protected under Utah Law like all native animal species. Wilson said the DWR regulates and oversees the wildlife in Utah and that while some animals have hunts to help regulate them, non-consumptive species ? like snakes ? are illegal to hunt.

?What we are trying to get away from is people indiscriminately killing snakes,? Wilson said. ?Our whole goal is we don't want this species to become to the point where they have to be listed under the endangered species act. So we are trying to protect all native population.?

The law was modified in 2010, however, to allow people to kill Great Basin rattlesnakes if they felt their life was endangered by the reptile. While there are six species of rattlesnakes in Utah, the amendment to the law only applies to the Great Basin species of rattlesnakes. Wilson said the Great Basin rattlesnake is the most common species found across the Wasatch Front.

Related Stories:
Tips for dealing with rattlesnake encounters, bites
During the warm summer months, hikers and campers head to the outdoors in droves. However, this is also the time of year that many snake species are also out and about. If you are worried about running into any venomous reptiles this summer, here are some tips of what to do.
?It's important that folks understand that the Division of Wildlife Resources? responsibility is to protect the wildlife in the state of Utah so that this wildlife is here for our grandchildren and their grandchildren,? Wilson said. ?I think it's part of our heritage that we have this unique assemblage of native species in the state. Many of the species found in the state are not found any place else. But it's also important that folks understand we don't want anybody to feel threatened or endangered by venomous reptiles, like rattlesnakes.?

Wilson said that fines can be given to people who kill rattlesnakes, but a conservation officer would have to prove that the person?s life was not in danger. Fines range between $50 and $2,500, depending on a judge?s ruling. Wilson said killing a rattlesnake while not in danger is considered a Class B misdemeanor.

If a person is threatened or endangered by a rattlesnake in the wild and they kill it, Wilson said they can just leave the rattlesnake where they kill it. If they kill the snake in their yard, they can dispose of the body in their trash can. It is not necessary to report these incidents to DWR officials, Wilson said.

Wilson cautioned that rattlesnakes can still bite shortly after they die, so people should be very careful.

?Snakes are a good predator in the ecosystem as far as maintaining rodents,? Wilson said. ?They are a very important part of the ecosystem in maintaining that balance so you don't have a rodent population explosion. We are just trying to prevent that indiscriminate killing of snakes and people do it for rattlesnakes especially.?

 

[grizzly]

rmanwill, good read. Thanks.

Grizzly

 

[elkassassin]

One more Law Un-Enforceable!

Several years back I went to a RAC meeting for my DH!

JUDAS!

It was about Snakes & Aquatic Wildlife!

Like 1 A.M in the Damn Mornin before we got out of there!

Can't Kill Rattlers anymore!

Remember when you were a kid & all kids had a bucket full of Salamander's?

Well,if you're in Possession of more than 3(I think it's 3?) you'll be in Violation without getting a COR from the DWR!











[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[deerslayer88]

Elkassassin good luck fining salamanders here in Central Utah any more. I haven't found one locally in awhile. Now up in the mountains that is a different story but I remember as a child we would find them all over. At least it felt that way.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

 

[elkassassin]

>Elkassassin good luck fining salamanders here
>in Central Utah any more.
>I haven't found one locally
>in awhile. Now up in
>the mountains that is a
>different story but I remember
>as a child we would
>find them all over. At
>least it felt that way.
>
>
>?If men were angels, no government
>would be
>necessary.? John Adams


Hey deerslayer?

What did you think was gonna happen with Salamander numbers once the DWR got involved?











[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!

 

[swbuckmaster]

lol

Why is this site the worst out for browsing with
a phone or posting with a phone?

 

[deerslayer88]

Same thing that happened to our deer herd my man.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

 

[Cooper]

100% of the rattlers i see have a lead deficiency

 

[Vanilla]

Grizz-

Sorry for my statistics comment. I was just trying to have a little fun. Never meant to hurt anyone's feelings and didn't mean to make you feel like I was calling you a liar or that you made them up. Just hackin on ya, is all. My timing was poor in an emotional topic. My apologies.

I have lots of non-venomous snakes in and around my yard. I'll chop one up with the edger or mower every once in a while. I feel bad each time. I don't mind them around at all.

Rattlesnakes scare the living crap out of me! Maybe I'm a wuss. But they scare me. Even just seeing pictures of them gives me the willies.

 

[grizzly]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-10-14 AT 08:25PM (MST)[p]Vanilla, hopefully you saw my post 29. I overreacted, I just have an attachment with snakes, probably like dog owners feel as compared to people who don't have dogs. They see a different side of them.

Obviously there are no loving rattlesnakes but you get my drift.

Have a good one.

Grizzly

 

[Vanilla]

Yes, I saw it. I just wanted to apologize still. Hope no hard feelings.

 

[bamacpl]

Every time I see a rattler I feel my life is threatened.....!

 

[Gator]

Snake shots work on some dogs other not so well, Then you have take in what kind of rattler is one that bit your dog(easy to carry a dead one then a live one.) Then its how much poison they put into that bite.
The shot only give you more time to get to a Vet if they are hit with a heavy dose of venom. You will still lose a dog here and there due to time and if the vet has the right stuff.

Snake avoidance training does more then that shot will.IMHO

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[treedagain]

I feel ALOT better knowing I have not been breaking the law on this one.


How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait

 

[Cooper]

^^^^^^^this +1

 

[UGAhunter]

You can collect (dead or alive) 4 rattle snakes per year in Idaho with a valid hunting license!


https://fishandgame.idaho.gov/content/question/are-rattle-snakes-protected-species-idaho

 

[Zeke]

Good! I got all mine in Idaho then. haha
Zeke

 

[trophymuley]

Today I was up getting hunting spots ready for the archery hunt. I came across an Elk antler high which means it was obviously on a sunny hot Ridge line. I had my shed dog with me so naturally I sent him out to start looking. Within 10 minutes I ran into three different rattlesnakes that scared the absolute sh!t out of me. One of which actually struck at me. Not having my dog on a leash and being they coiled up and started rattling at me lifting their heads as high as they can get them in defense mode ready to strike. I had two options. Save the rattlesnakes or avoid a potentially dangerous situation for me, but mostly for my dog.
This is obviously a no brainier situation. Your dog is running towards you and there is a rattlesnake less than 8 feet from you making a noise that sounds like a rattle toy. You have a four foot branch within reach. What do you do?

"Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you
down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

[DeerHunter1953]

I used to fish up Provo canyon the on the Provo river when I was a kid with my dad, uncle and cousins. There were lots of times we ran into rattlesnakes. My uncle was so afraid of them he would go through the bushes with his fishing pole whistling and smacking the brush with his pole. We all used to laugh at him and tease him. On one occasion my cousin and I came up on him fishing one of his favorite holes so we thought that we would have a little fun with him. We hid behind some bushes and made a rattlesnake sound and he just up and jumped right in the river. Imagine our surprise and boy was he pissed. He came up the bank with water pouring out of his waders when we suddenly knew our lives were in real danger. Ha ha well when he got to the top of the bank by the railroad tracks he almost stepped on a real rattler. he didn't miss a step picked up a big branch and beat the snake to pulp.
He then told both of us some kind words of advise I can't mention on this thread and walked off and left us and drove home. We had to hitch hike back to town and he didn't take us fishing for a month.
Big family joke we still talk about it loved that guy sure miss him.
Thought I would share for a few laughs

 

[BeDawg]

I killed one at the bus stop at the mouth of Millcreek Canyon when I was 11 before attending school. Should I have gotten punished? I can handle there numbers being at a minimal level.

 

[monstermuleyman]

Shummy is absolutely right?

My brother is the Chief of Staff for a very respected Veterinarian Medical Hospital [on the front] and sees these snakebites often. I recently got a pup that I had every intention of taking hiking, shed hunting, etc. I inquired as to the vaccine - he recommended it but was very clear that it would not eliminate the need to for immediate medical treatment but buy you some time to get them there. I am not in anyway, shape, or form calling your friend a liar [maybe the snake didn't inject much, etc.] I just don't want people to get the wrong idea, get the animal vaccinated with the anti venom, and not take action if the animal gets bit. Regardless, be careful up there with your pets, watch your step and if they get bit, get them to a vet ASAP - same as a person.

MMM