Weiers Response to HB2072

AZ402

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Interesting......


SALE OF BIG GAME TAGS





STATE CAPITOL, PHOENIX (January 17, 2012) ? In a well intentioned effort to preserve the future of big game sport hunting in the state of Arizona, I worked with my colleagues and constituents and Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife by sponsoring HB 2072. I did so not only out of a sense of duty to promote the natural health of our state?s wildlife but also to guarantee the future of big game hunting for generations of hunters to come whom, like myself, want nothing more than to responsibly join in this rich and deeply rooted tradition.



The conservationists and hunting/angling sportsmen and sportswomen whom were supporting this bill met with me last week. After meeting with them I decided that this legislation would not be received favorably by the hunting sportsmen and sportswomen of our state. And for this reason I ultimately decided that the bill in its present form will not move forward.



It is most unfortunate that Arizona?s sportsmen, including members of some of Arizona?s foremost wildlife conservation groups, have no concept as to how HB 2072 would benefit the state of Arizona, the Arizona Game and Fish Department, wildlife and wildlife habitat, Arizona?s youth, landowners and sportsmen.



The State would benefit by increasing tourism and providing a $25.4 Million annual boost in economic activity for the state - $4 Million of which would benefit our rural counties; raise an additional $2.2 Million in new tax collections for state and local governments; and $10.2 million additional income for Arizona households.



The Arizona Game and Fish Department would benefit by increasing hunting and fishing license revenues to the state by approximately $900,000 and providing additional sources of revenue to augment three critical problem areas identified in the Department's Five-Year Strategic Plan. From 1996 to 2006 (according to a U. S. Fish and Wildlife Report) the number of hunting and fishing licenses sold by the Department decreased by 98,000 combined despite the fact that Arizona?s population grew substantially.



Arizona?s wildlife would benefit by providing approximately $1 Million for wildlife habitat enhancement and increasing big game wildlife populations. The Department has insufficient revenues to fund the many habitat enhancement projects currently on the list and Arizona?s big game wildlife herds, except for elk, are either decreasing in size or are staying relatively flat despite the annual infusion of $90 to $100 Million annually in Department spending. For example total deer permits issued have dropped from a high of 92,545 permits in 1984 to a low of 36,665 permits in 2004. In 2010 43,993 total deer permits were issued. Mule deer herd sizes have suffered the most as demonstrated in the Department's harvest report which shows that harvested mule deer numbers decreased from a high of 19,454 in 1986 to a low of 3,753 in 2003. A total of 4,818 mule deer were harvested in 2010.



Arizona?s youth would benefit by providing approximately $750,000 to introduce the youth to replace hunters and anglers leaving the sport. As of the most recent U. S. Fish and Wildlife published in 2006 68% of the hunters and anglers are 35 years of age and older while 32% are 35 years of age and under.



Arizona Landowners and Sportsmen would benefit by providing approximately $750,000 to $1 Million in new revenue to augment the Department's landowner access program. Landowners are closing access, in large part because of the cost incurred to accommodate public access and damage done to private lands by irresponsible sportsmen, access across private land to public lands is continuing to diminish, thus leaving hundreds of thousands of acres unavailable to the sportsmen to hunt and fish.



The situation that helped me decide to not move forward with the legislation is one in which I found myself determined to avoid the breakdown of a currently unified front of hunting constituents and enthusiasts though holding the bill may not accomplish that objective. I know that we cannot afford to divide this extremely important union of conservationists that have been, for the most part, our most staunch allies in the face of threats against the rights of Arizona?s hunters and anglers starting with the initiative that ended the ability to trap on public lands.



I feel we, the sportsmen and women of Arizona, have a mutual admiration for the wildlife of our state and the rights of Arizona?s hunters and anglers to join in its bounty. I can only hope that conservation organizations and the average sportsmen will try to understand the bigger picture and the benefits of HB 2072, support this or a similar concept and not allow those who would oppose us to divide and conquer and further destroy our right to hunt and fish.



I will continue to work in earnest to make sure that the sport of big game hunting and angling will be available for many generations to come. I encourage those of you who were concerned only about getting a tag to rethink your position. HB 2072 offered a unique and innovative way to help offset the current trend of problems that, if allowed to continue, will only continue to deplete our big game herds and limit fishing opportunities, thus reducing our hunting and fishing opportunities in the future.
__________________

www.cactusbull.com
 
"I encourage those of you who were concerned only about getting a tag to rethink your position."

In turn I would encorage those of you who were concerned with potecting this political hack to rethink your position. This was a money and tag grab. No safety sytem to ensure any money to wildlife. Selling tags to drum up tourist is a bad idea as well. A few people would have made a lot of money if a few people could just get over giving AZ SFW a few tags!
 
"It is most unfortunate that Arizona?s sportsmen, have no concept as to how HB 2072 would benefit the state of Arizona, the Arizona Game and Fish Department, wildlife and wildlife habitat, Arizona?s youth, landowners and sportsmen."

Guess we're too dumb and have no concept!!

What a pompous azz! This memo sure won't help gain any favor!!
 
Quintessential political speak. How many times did he say approximately? Isn't he supposed to listen to the masses, and then do what we tell him? haha
 
Exactly HOW would it 'benefit' those aspects he claims it would? The imbecile rambles endlessly on in meaningless rhetoric, but doesn't SAY anything.

100% genuine ass spray right there. The audacity of such a fork tongued snake is indescribably offensive to our better sensibilities.

A typical pontificating, half-witted, weasel puppet...absolutely disgusting. **SPIT**
 
apparently the azgfd commissioners didn't understand what a great thing this unpublicized bill would have been either....lol....I sure hope the politicians try asking their constituents what they want before they work with lobbyists late at night at the last minute to run a bill through.....allen Taylor..........
 
I wrote him bacvk and told him it was BS and he would hear from voters in his next election. I will contribute to his GOP opponent.
 
Honestly, it's possible he really does think this is a good idea. But if that is true, wow is he out of touch. Or maybe he got tired of waiting along with the rest of us for a top tag and wants to buy a few of these best tags for himself.

Plus he makes my point for me. 100 million a year hasn't helped the mule deer herd so why would I want to sell out the best of my mule deer hunting for an extra million. Isn't the whole point to increase quality of hunting? Why would I want to sell my best 1% of hunting for a 1% increase in funding that may not improve quality at all.

To be fair I might accept this if we were facing an ultimatum of more money or no hunting or even a serious threat but unless he knows something I don't that isn't the case.
 
"The imbecile rambles endlessly on in meaningless rhetoric, but doesn't SAY anything."

Oh ya, politicians always have to throw out all those numbers to quantify their cause. It makes them look like they know what they are doing. But we all know he pulled them out of where the sun don't shine, and omitted where the money would REALLY go.

The model of American public land wildlife was based on management for ALL THE PEOPLE. PERIOD. Even the 5 or 10 governor's tags most states have goes against this model. 300 or 550 wealth tags is just plain rape and political BS.

What have 550 wealth tags done for Utah's deer herd?............Zip.
 
Break down what you are doing with the money the azgfd already gets. Explain what the government can do to stretch those dollars a little further... Give a detailed breakdown of what he's gonna do for ALL of the sportsmen that more than willingly give our 54.00 dollars for our hunt/fish combo licenses every year. I'm more than happy shelling out 7.50 for every big game application I submit and I'm more than stoked to pay your 121.50 for a elk tag! He talks to us like were a bunch of assholes that have never done anything for our wildlife. As a hunter I consider myself as much as a environmentalist/conservationist as anyone, I spend a good portion of my life in the woods exploring, filming, hunting, picking up after other trashy jerks, cutting trees out of roads, etc... and just because someone has more money than me doesn't mean they deserve to get to hunt every year because they can buy some auction tag and that automatically makes them a better conservationist. I'm sick of where politicans have put our country and it pisses me off even more when they try to whore out our tags.
 
I think I need to be a government puppet?? Where does he even come close to $24 Million off of 350 tags?? Because I am an idiot....could someone do some simple, honest math to get that figure?? Per my math, he is thinking he will get $65,000.00 per tag in AZ coffers (total tourism). That is bold thinking!! I guess they are averaging?? I would like some of the whiskey he is drinking!!

Also, in case everyone has forgotten what it means to be a "conservationist", Cody 1985 has it right.....we pick up a lot of sh$t in the desert/forest & bring it home to our garbage haul while hunting. In return we ask for no "fanfare".

The little things us 'po-folk' do on a regular basis.
 
Typical politician. He gets his butt in hot water then publishes a letter written by Gilstrap and SFW that already has been used by two people involved telling us we are too stupid to get it. Probably a ten year projected income like Obama uses. I am talking to as many people in his district as I can to get him kicked out next election. Once a politician is compromised he is done IMO.
 
ASB

In Utah they used the same kind of math for the EXPO. They took all of the money that would be spent at the EXPO, the projected money from the auctions, the money from the raffle tags, the money from the hotel stays, food purchased, airline flights, gasoline, rental cars, hookers...You name it and they will attempt to use every penny spent in AZ during the EXPO as a result of the 300 plus tags they tried to take. I don't think it ever panned out for Utah like they claimed it would but I don't know because they wouldn't release the information. It was used (very successfully) in Utah to get the EXPO tags. There has never been an accounting, to my knowledge, to show the massive financial gains they claimed. I am sure if there had been it would have been thrown around by SFW as a great thing they had done to save SLC from financial; ruins. I am only guessing but I think they were/are trying to say the same thing in AZ. Anybody want to drink the Kool-Aid?

The other thing they don't take into account is that if AZ dilutes their auction tags they will not fetch the same price they currently fetch. The very few tags AZ offers help keep the prices high. Add more tags and the prices will fall. I would guess that the end result will be only a slight increase in the total amount of money raised with double the number of auction tags. The ends would not justify the means. It would simply allow a few more very wealthy people to skip the draw and make a few more average Joes wait a few more years to draw.
 
Honest to god every politician is the same. Pretends he can't understand why people don't agree with the bill, tell the people they are stupid then probably rewrite the bill and get it passed on a dark night all the while telling people this is what they want, NO this is what $FW wants! In 1984 hunting was just part of being a kid in the US today hunting is looked at alot different than in 84 and tags are limited I'm sure alot of people would like to hunt AZ but just don't bother "probably won't draw a tag anyway". Instead of letting the rich steal the tags with the help of politicians why not do some things for our youth and help to "pass it on" if numbers are declining don't take more tags from our youth so they sit out more hunting seasons make it easier so the numbers do come back up.
 
"I ultimately decided that the bill in its present form will not move forward."

Key operative here "in its present form". Get ready for another run at the Great Arizona Tag Grab.
 
Guys I am sorry about the way you feel about Mr. Jerry Weiers.

Obviously you don't know the man like I and many others who work actively in the conservation community do...

If there is anyone downtown that carries our banner more than Jerry does, I'd like to meet them.

Jerry has done so much for us during the time he has been in office, it is truly disturbing to hear the bad things you are saying about him.

I have known Jerry as a friend and fellow hunter for many years. I have had the pleasure to hunt with him and his daughter a lot. I'm hoping he'll make it to our pig camp next month so I can sit down with him and really find out what happened in this situation.

Now that being said, I do understand your frustration about all of this.

However,Jerry is my friend and I'm gonna stand up for him just like you would if someone was attacking your friend.

No we don't always agree on matters of mutual interest, but he'll hear me out and I will do the same for him. Hey we are not perfect, not him; surely not me and probably you for that matter.

Jerry Weiers is a fine man. You don't agree with him on this and that is fine, but if we loose him in the legislature we'll really loose someone who has our best interest at heart.

This bill he was asked to sponsor is over, so lets move on. Don't you think that the antis are laughing their butts off over this? Hey we are trying to destroy one of our own, and they are just sitting back and giggling with glee.

If you want to know just how much of a value he is to our side, just ask them-the antis- who the guy is downtown that always has stood up for us and fought against them?

There is no conspiracy folks...

Don Martin
 
"There is no conspiracy...the bill that he was asked to sponsor is over, lets move on"

You've got to be kidding...

Say, will your campfire discussion 'to get to the bottom of this' be revealed accurately to the greater public here with HONESTY, or will it be swept under a bed of coals and kept between 'close friends'

Politiki at its despicable worst right there Don
 
"After meeting with them I decided that this legislation would not be received favorably by the hunting sportsmen and sportswomen of our state. And for this reason I ultimately decided that the bill in its present form will not move forward."


So why go against what this great State of Arizona favors? Of course this bill won't be accepted in a positive way with the irrational BS ideas stated in this. This group just wants MONEY, and OUR tags, and now their reputation and any respect will be lost from the hunting community for now on...
 
Guys we all got opinions on this and I'm sure OK with that!

When I see Jerry I'll ask him straight up what happened, just for my own edification. Its over, and I'm glad it is, but I'm not going to make a report on this site or any other as it is really a moot point.

Sorry guys, call Jerry and leave your number if you want to talk to the man about his position.

I'm not his PR man, nor his personal defender of his position on this issue, I'm just his friend.

End of story...


Don Martin
 
The sportman of Arizona are a great bunch of people. I watch all of this tag grabbing go on in other states. I watched first hand the influence land owners and ranchers can have over public wildlifein in another state. Arizona is truly a state set apart from the rest of the west in that its sportman are always motivated to do whats best for the wildlife and not pocketbooks. Even outfitters and guides here in this state will put thier own interests aside and do whats best for everyone. I love this state. I'm an 8th generation Arizona native, I've only lived outside of Arizona for a total of 6 years out of 39... 4 while serving in the Marine Corps and 2 where I tried Wyoming on for size... Wyoming wasn't for me.

I said all that to lead up to this. You guys make me proud! When you see bad legislation coming, you guys circle the wagons and are ready to fight! The word spreads like wildfire and every sportsman in the state knows somthing about the subject within days. I watched this same thing happen when Taulman was pulling his crap. We screamed so loud from the roof tops that even guys like Jim Zumbo heard it all the way up in Wyoming and refused to use thier bull elk tags! I love this state, I love the sportsman here and I'm proud to be a part of this group of dedicated conservationists!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
When you start messing with the coveted AZ game tags that for some will take many, many years to draw you are treading on sacred ground !! Can't ever let it happen !!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-12 AT 07:57AM (MST)[p]Mr. Weiers may do many good things for the hunting community and I am thankful to him for that, however there is no excuse for trying to go behind the Arizona sportsmen and women's backs on this deal no matter what you may say.
 
I don't know Don Martin personally but I do hope to meet him someday. I know Don has done more to enhance Arizona wildlife and hunting opportunity than most. If Don says Jerry is a good man with good intentions I'm taking him at his word. Bad idea... Deffinately! Well intentioned possibly! I think if we have a legislator on our side we need to treat them with respect even if we wholeheartedly disagree. There's a lot more to Arizona conservation than this particular bill. I've paid close attention to what SWF has done in Utah ever since they established here in Arizona. I don't like their politics or policy as it pertains to what they've done in Utah. It looks like they are attempting to do the same thing here. As far as Jerry goes, before you decide to cast your vote for or against him, I would take a look at his voting record as a whole and make a decision based on that. Its easy to play armchair activist and spout about a man you know very little about. Check out his record and make an adult educated decision instead of lynching him for 1 bad bill.




"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

The anti's are laughing out of both sides of their mouths, they have won either way with this attempted legislation... if it doesn't go through a deep rift is created between the majority of sportsmen and the supposed, movers and shakers, that oppose them politically... if it does go through, it effectively creates a judicial battleground between their combined might and SFW for the control of these tags, completely removing any interference from the AZG&F, the governor and sportsmen as a group.... the 503c tax or 'sportsmen' status would not be a deterrent to them becoming the qualifying organization as written in this legislation. Any argument that this would have thwarted the anti's agenda is ignorant to the extreme...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Kent
 
Well, anyone that hs been here long enough to remember USO understands that this single bill would do more harm to our G&F and Arizona hunters than any hugger group or basically anything. I in no way believe the people involved in this did not know exactly what they were doing. If they had good intentions they would have talked to the Commission and G&F for their opinions. SFW bet their future on getting this passed in the dark of night and I hope every person that had a hand in it suffers.
 
Don Martin,

Just a few comments...did you read Weiers memo?

Secondly, I have contacted Weiers twice and left all my contact information, phone number, email address, and home address. Havent heard squat other than getting the "memo".

Let me refresh your memory on some of the key things in Weiers memo:

I can only hope that conservation organizations and the average sportsmen will try to understand the bigger picture and the benefits of HB 2072.

I encourage those of you who were concerned only about getting a tag to rethink your position.

Seriously?

Nice that he talks down the group of people that not only PAY his salary, but have also paid the freight for Wildlife Conservation and Wildlife Management for the last 80+ years and continue to do so now.

Further, I provided Jerry Weiers with a link specific to the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and asked him to refresh his memory on just exactly what that is. Apparently he hasnt ever heard of it...even though, according to you, he's such a champion of hunters/fishermen. One of the key things about the NAM is that wildlife resources should be accessible to ALL citizens, not the select few as is common in Europe, Africa, etc.

Its also apparent that Weiers doesnt get the "big picture" if all he thinks this is about is citizens only being concerned with getting a tag. What a jackwagon! Arizona hunters have paid for, with money, effort and time to build wildlife numbers to what they are today. Its not a matter of them feeling like they're "owed" something via a tag, its about keeping a level playing field for all. The well-heeled do not deserve special privilege to cut in front of those (average sportsmen) that have supported wildlife conservation for 80+ years.

I just dont agree that Weiers is "in touch" with the average sportsmen in Arizona or anywhere else. I believe he's more "in touch" with the monitary value and commercialization of wildlife that groups like SFW endorse at every turn in the road.

His memo made it more than clear that he thinks the average hunter doesnt know what they're talking about, that we dont see the big picture, and all we care about is getting a tag.

That kind of thinking and behavior is inexcusable from a PUBLIC SERVANT, who, in his mind, believes he is so "in touch" with sportsmen and sportsmens issues.

He's no ally to any sportsmen, other than those with the fattest wallets who couldnt give a $hit less about the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. As long as the wealthy get their tags and Weiers business buddies can make a few bucks off the publics wildlife...its all good.

What a joke he is.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-12 AT 11:12AM (MST)[p]Don

Do us a favor when you talk to Jerry. Ask him if he intends to bring forth another version of this bill in the future or is he going to completely abandon this agenda. I'm not interested in bashing someone or removing them from office if they're truly friendly to our cause. But for the life of me, I can't see how Jerry's bill will effectively benefit wildlife, sportsmen or the state's economy.

If Game & Fish needs to raise more money, just raise the price of a license or tag. According to Game & Fish, they issued more than 135,000 hunting licenses last year. A $10 increase would generate $1,350,000 and a $20 increase in deer tag fees would generate another $800,000+. I'm sure sportsmen would support an increase in fees if the funds were going to be dedicated to specific on the ground programs to enhance game populations. More game means more tags and more tags means increased economic impact to the state. All this without paying consulting fees, management fees, expo overhead and payroll to SFW.

It just doesn't make any sense to me to give money to SFW so they can give the money back to Game & Fish, less the cost of "doing business". Let's just cut out the middle man, have our wildlife managers tell us what money they need and what they will do with it. The sportsmen will put on their big boy pants and step up to the plate.

I really believe the Average Joe will do what is needed financially if there is a well articulated plan and it is effectively communicated. SFW, RMEF, MDF, etc all solicit hunters for membership dues and donations, so we know the Average Joe will open up his wallet when asked appropriately. We don't need to turn AZ into a hunting camp for they elite few rich or well connected.

(I hate typo's)
 
Great post Sagebrush.

I truly hope that a legislator that is supposed to be on our side isn't doing what he appears to be doing. The road to hell is paved with good intentions... That much is very true. But I also respect Don and its hard for me to turn my back on someone he would go as far as to call a friend. I do not believe that all sportsmans groups are created equal though and I believ they do have their place.... But they also need to know their place and it should NEVER be profit driven. I myself have considered craeting a sportsmans group dedicated soley to desert mule deer and rule number one would be no auction tags!

"The dedliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Don, It's been almost 2 weeks. Have you spoken to Weier's yet?

This event is not going to be forgotten.
 
Zim:

I have not. I have been involved in another project and haven;t spoken to or heard from Jerry. I'm not sure with his shoulder surgery he will be able to come to the HAM hunt that starts the 10th.

However, it seems like this is all over--at least I hope it is. Jerry is still one of the sponsors of the G&F Omnibus bill, plus I heard the Commission voted to keep working AZSFWC, which of course is the habitat side of that organization that still has a lot of of conservation groups as members.

The Mohave Sportsman Club Board, which knew nothing of the proposal like many groups, is going to take a wait and see attitude and see what rises from the ashes of this mess. The license plate fund, which has raised a heck of lot money for education and habitat in Arizona, needs to stay alive and prosper.

We sure don't want to lose that. That has nothing to do with politics, period.

Anyway, IF Jerry makes it to pig camp, we'll talk.

If not, no big deal for me as as far as I am concerned with the bill being dead, and those involved are not planning any kind of "resurrection" time to move on and keep working for wildlife and sportsmen in AZ.

Don Martin
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]>
> no big deal for
>me as as far as
>I am concerned with the
>bill being dead, and those
>involved are not planning any
>kind of "resurrection" time to
>move on and keep working
>for wildlife and sportsmen in
>AZ.
>
>Don Martin


sorry but there is no way I'd be willing to trust anyone invloved in this attempt to STEAL from us. while they smiled - mislead and basically didnt think anyone supporting them had the right to be involved - why because they knew they were backstabbing everyone. and really give a crap for your opinion - - let someone else take over the license .. but to sit and say we'll see whay everyone else does is a cop-out. you deserve what you get in the future if you are unwilling to make a stand now - what a pity - do you really think for a second they will let it go. why do you think they are saying nothin - hoping we will let it go - obviuosly you guys are in the forgive and forget mode - thats exactly what they azsfw want!
 
off another site - hopefully you might concider this a wake up call -



Anyone that thinks that HB 2072 is dead and gone doesn't know how AZSFW works. Even if a "Strike Everything" does not appear during this session, wait until next year. If AZSFW has set any semblance of 2072 as a primary goal, it will return next session in a different form.

Just take a look at HB 2235 from 2009. We jilled it. It came back the following year and SB 1200 Commission Recommendation Board. Passage of that bill required two votes. During the first voted, it was soundly defeated. Most legislators who opposed it left the chamber and a second voted was called for. Since many legislators who opposed it were already headed to other appointment the bill was passed. Just take a look at the legislatures video archives to see what occurred.

Be vigilant, very vigilant.


you snooze you lose - wake up and stay awake
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 07:13AM (MST)[p]How in the He** can you have a second vote on something that has been defeated when all the members of the body haven't even been notified that it's being brought back up on the floor for reconsideration? It sounds like you guys are in Chicago, rather than AZ!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]Myself.....I will never trust this guy again. And I am well aware he has a track record for sportsman's legislation. Those around him said John Wayne Gacy was a great guy too.
 
All I can say is "WOW" and I hope you folks find another legislator down at the capitol who will work as hard as Jerry has and do the things for sportsmen that Jerry Weiers has done during his tenure!

Does this mean I am defending him for this fiasco? Nope, just means that none of us are perfect, we've all made mistakes and for me, I am going to look at the "Big Picture" and say that what he has done in the past is greatly appreciated by those of us who are constantly in the fight for sportsmen's issue in Arizona, and I for one, and it is just my opinion, am not going to lose a very good friend because of this!

Don Martin
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 06:09PM (MST)[p]OK Don,

I would just ask that you do us all here the kindness of relaying his 'reasoning' behind such, should your 'campfire discussion' concerning this matter ever take place ;)

Fair enough?

Thanks,

Adam Simms
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 07:54?PM (MST)

The other problem, to the best of my knowledge, Jerry Weiers has not admitted he even made a mistake.

Read his memo...does that sound like a guy being humble and admitting he made a bad decision on this crap bill?

Sounds more like an arrogant a$$ telling every hunter in AZ how dumb they are for not "seeing the big picture" and recognizing the "good that hb2072 would do".

WOW is right Don.

Also, just wondering if its a common practice of Weiers to dress down hunters via memo's like this...or was that just another mistake?

Maybe I just dont see the big picture...and maybe Weiers doesnt either. I bet he might see the "big picture" come election time.
 
Gotta agree with BuzzH on this one, as the guy has not only not admitted his mistake, but then compounds it by putting out that memo essentially telling all the peons how dumb they are for not following the Pied Piper! I have a feeling that his azz is grass and the voters in the next election will be the lawn mower if things stay as is!
 
Weiers response was insulting. Basically says 2072 was a good bill but the whiners did not understand and raised a ruckus so it was taken off the table.

Does anyone who has read the memo think this was a heartfelt response from someone who feels tags should not be handed out for auction?

Keep in mind, this was going to take away 100s of tags with ZERO guarantee there would be future upside from the funds being spent, only ONE organization was going to get the tags and the tags were locked in for multiple years and was being pushed as an EMERGENCY which minimized our chance to be heard and concerns addressed in the bill.

The above indicates a lot of mistakes with HB2072 in the minds of many of us. Are we morons and idiots that lack the knowledge and life experiences to provide valid input?

I make mistakes. Some are small. Some are big. I apologize when my mistake hurts or could have hurt someone. I do not wait weeks to apologize either.

Until I see an apology I am not supporting Weiers, Wilderness Advantage or Outdoorsmans/Elk Hunting Mag/Western Hunting.
 
Yes, we common Sportspeople ARE all idiots whom 'can't understand' political underhandedness at its very despicable worst.

That is why WE were never offered a 'decent' man's apology, but merely a transparently derogatory 'justification' for the policking snake's hand in what what was attempted to be dealt us.

That is why we are waiting for our good man Don to 'get to the bottom of this' and HONESTLY translate his friend's intentions in this matter for us 'tards to be able to comprehend, for the betterment of our moronic public Primary-Funders-of-Wildlife-Programs of this once great western America

Don't you see? Without us, the pesky PEOPLE, it would all be so simple! ;)

We'll be settin here waitin on ya Mr. Martin. Or hey, how 'bout you invite your dear buddy to come visit us here? He could deal directly with his constituents, a privelege no HONEST politician would excuse himself from.

We stoopid huntin' foolz'd be much obliged to have the big cheese himself in the house...we won't treat him to badly, now 'THAT's a PROMISE' :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-12 AT 09:55AM (MST)[p]word has it it

weiers term is up!- he's looking to be the next major of glendale or switch and try to represent yuma district -

something along those lines,i read it somewhere, trying to find it agin!

heres his history
http://www.azleg.gov/MembersPage.asp?Member_ID=81&Legislature=50&Session_ID=107


look - click on a few motorcycle bills he sponsors - open then click on version

heres my favorite




HB 2077 deletes language pertaining to motorcycles overtaking and passing vehicles in the same lane and operating between the lanes of traffic.

History
Arizona Revised Statutes (A.R.S.) ? 28-903 provides that all motorcycles are entitled to the full use of the traffic lane. Current law does not permit or allow motorcyclists to overtake and pass in the same lane occupied by the vehicle overtaken, to drive between lanes of traffic or between adjacent rows of vehicles, or to drive two abreast in a single lane. The only exceptions are for peace officers in the performance of their official duties.

The fine for the violation of A.R.S. ? 28-903 varies from county to county based on justice court rulings. Maricopa County Justice Court fines a motorcyclist in violation of this section $168. Pima County Justice Court fines a motorcyclist in violation of this section $167.
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Provisions- his proposal-
? Allows motorcyclists to overtake and pass vehicles in the same lane and operate between the lanes of traffic by deleting section B,C,D, and E of A.R.S. ? 28-903.



guess since he rides he wants freedom of the rode too!
 
Guys:

It is obvious that no one is going to be satisfied with anything that I say here, so tell you what.

If Jerry shows up to pig camp, fine and I'll ask him what's up. If not, when I am in the city again I'll look him up and we'll talk.

Until then I'm gonna pass on all of this "discussion" of this issue on this site.

Here is an idea. Hey the next time you guys know about a Commission or other public meeting that deals with wildlife issues, please feel free to come and introduce yourself! I'd like to meet you!

I know of a meeting in St. George, UT on April 2-4 that deals with the many issues that affect sportsmen on the Arizona Strip that I'll be at, representing the Mohave Sportsman Club and hopefully other concerned sportsmen.

Come on up, donate a little of your vacation time to the cause and give a hand!

Don Martin
 
Jeez Louise Don, you're startin to sound like a regular politician...it all makes perfect sense now.

First you say that you will relay the information you gather in your 'private' meeting with Weier to all of us idiots here, then you become defensive and declare that you will NOT post any findings you discover, on this or any other forum, and now you present a challenge to meet individual detractors at such and so 'meeting' in frikken Utard??

MANY of us on here would be more than happy to come and 'introduce ourselves' and personally voice our opinions concerning the matter at hand if your backdoor politician buddies would be stand up fellers in the first place, and put their schemes on the public table for general review, instead of attempting to sneak in some underhanded, limited interest, BULLSHIT crony legislation.

You say you will not be part of this 'discussion' any longer? Wisest move you've made here so far...if ya can't stand up to the heat with INTEGRITY and HONOR, then go on and get the hell out of the furnace. Make like your snake friends and slither on off into whatever crack you can find.

I've never had any problem with you Don, even if I don't agree with your self indulgent style. But now that you've thrown down your empty glove, come up short, and have decided to scuttle off with your tail tucked under in transparent 'innocent' denial...well, that just seals the speculation MANY of us have wondered about, as far as where your true allegiance lies.

Looking from the outside in, would you not agree that the whole deal from the bottom up is just despicable forked tongued innuendo? My tolerance for hypocrisy and betrayal is LESS THAN ZERO
 
I usually have no dog in these fights. Am not in agreement with this bill, for the record. However, as you get educated in one's research, you learn things. This is merely speculation....and....I would like clarification on this. However, there is an interesting thread on CWT in the campfire forum....headed "where do we go from here". Post# 26. Again, as this all shakes out, yet another interesting observation. Definately related to this thread....we all want honest answers.

Again, clarification?!?!?!
 
Dino, I saw the same thing. I am pretty sure that HB2072 if passed would not have hurt Don Martin in the least. It could very well have helped business. I guess where I am concerned is if anyone read the proposed bill, it took away tons of opportunities from the average joe and made 1 conservation group (AZSFW) in charge of alot of tags. I sure cant see why that issue could not have been discussed with AZ sportsmen prior to ramrodding it through and I also dont see why Weirs thinks we cant understand the "Big Picture". Maybe we understood his "Big" picture all too well and just disagreed with it.........LOL.......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Zim et al.

Ok here is the deal. In my last post I plainly said I would speak with Jerry (1) either at pig camp or (2) next time I went to Phoenix. No phone calls. Want to talk to him face to face.

Best I can do.

Next forget my request to join me in St. George or anywhere else to work on sportsman's issues.

That is just me. I know many don't have the time to do this. But it is what I do and will continue to do.

Also, at times when I feel I am being personally attacked, I kinda get defensive. Human thing I guess.

Anyway, I forgot that you and the others have every right to your opinions, and that as journalist and sportsman, I support that, even if we don't agree. Yep it is America after all and yes we all have differing opinions. And I need to be more understanding with those that don't agree with my take on things, and I must staunchly defend your right to say what you want.

So that's where I am at on this thing.

I've pretty well outlined what I'll do and how I'll do it.

Until then, I will just continue doing what I do for sportsmen and wildlife in Arizona the best I can.

Don Martin
 
Don, if the bill had passed what would you think of it ? We're you in favor of it ? If you weren't in favor of the bill what would you think of Mr Weier helping to get the bill passed ? I just wondered where you stand on HB2072 for/against and I know Mr Weier is your friend would you still defend him if the bill had passed? I know you do your fair share and I hope you don't take this as disrespectful because it sure isn't ment to be!
 
Jodog:

I was out on a hunt when this thing broke wide open. Like many/most of you, I didn't know a thing about it until I saw I had 50 text messages and it was all about the same thing!

For me everything was after the fact--neither I nor the Mohave Sportsman Club for which I am the Govt Liaison knew anything...

Let me just say I was very surprised to see Jerry's name on it.

When I finally got to read the bill in the end I can only say from my personal point of view, I'm wasn't for the bill, and especially the way it came down the pike.

Now that being said, Jerry and I have in the past disagreed on a some things, but in the end, he is still my friend. And friends can and often do disagree.

That's the case here.

Don Martin
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-12 AT 10:53PM (MST)[p]I figured you'd be back Don...look, its absolutely nothing personal, its that you came out swinging for your friend on a PUBLIC forum, despite his blatant lack of foresight (or perhaps his outright corrupted cronyism) in this disgusting affair. Disagreements between friends are common, and natural. The problem WE the people have with this here, is that your friend's bad judgement holds the potential to affect us all, directly and NEGATIVELY

Its fine to be friendly with whomever you choose, but in the future, please be careful when blindly stepping up to bat in defense of an incredibly misguided action on their part.

You yourself are subject to implication in such contexts.

Clear enough?
 
Yes, like he'd give a chit what a NR thinks. I got the same response as the pro-SFWers have left on MM lately.......dead silence.
 
Don,

Well, we no longer need to wait for your pig camp chat with Weiers. We found our answer right here..........in the form of dollar signs.

*************************************************

C&P from another forum.
Latest message from AZSFWC (AZSFW is one in the same):

Some of our members recently expressed concern with some proposed legislation, HB 2072. However, AZSFWC did not sponsor HB 2072, nor introduce HB 2072. We did hear an overview of the bill at our December Board meeting, and the Board voted to support the concept. We viewed the benefits as presented for sportsmen and women, youth, access and wildlife, not to mention Arizona's economy, as very positive.

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact....8nQLV90A==

Technically he is right. They did not sponsor or introduce HB2072 because none of them are legislators! They did, however, undoubtedly draft the bill in question, and paid Rep. Weiers $6187 during their December 16th meeting to sponsor/introduce it for them. They are not fooling anyone.

AZSFWC Council
President/Chairman - Jim Unmacht
Secretary/Treasurer - Alan Hamberlin
Director - Eddy Corona
Director - Joe Del Re
Director - Floyd Green
Director - Charlie Kelly
Director - John Koleszar
Director - Jerry Nelson
Director - Mark Nuessle
Director - Art Pearce
Director - Brian Pinney
Director - Shane Stewart
Director - Gary Stinson
Director - Robert Thomas

AZSFW council
CHAIRMAN: Alan Hamberlin
Chris Denham
Brian Dolan
Randy Gaskill
Hays Gilstrap
Floyd Green
Todd Hulm
Nick Heatwole
Mark Nuessle
Art Pearce
Trent Swanson
LOBBYIST: Suzanne Gilstrap

The AZ Secretary of State keeps records on all political contributions. This is from the Jerry Weiers 2012 political committee. The same Jerry Weiers who sponsored HB2072. These contributions totalling over $6000 were all made on December 16, 2011. 3 weeks before this emergency bill was created/made public. Coincidence? Maybe some of these names look familiar?

CORONA, EDWARD
12/16/2011 $100.00
DENHAM, CHRISTOPHER
12/16/2011 $250.00
Evenson, Jared
12/16/2011 $424.00
GILSTRAP, HAYS
12/16/2011 $200.00
GREEN, FLOYD
12/16/2011 $400.00
HAMBERLIN, ALAN
12/16/2011 $174.00
HAMBERLIN, DEBORAH
12/16/2011 $424.00
Hamberlin, Ryan
12/16/2011 $424.00
HICKMAN, BILL
12/16/2011 $200.00
HICKMAN, CLINTON
12/16/2011 $200.00
HICKMAN, GLENN
12/16/2011 $200.00
HICKMAN, LISA
12/16/2011 $200.00
HICKMAN SILVA, SHARMAN
12/16/2011 $200.00
HULM, TODD
12/16/2011 $50.00
Katz, Andy
12/16/2011 $424.00
KELLY, CHARLES
12/16/2011 $150.00
KING, RHONDA
12/16/2011 $35.00
KINNEY, DONNA
12/16/2011 $424.00
KOLESZAR, JOHN
12/16/2011 $100.00
MAGURA, JACK
12/16/2011 $410.00
MARVIN, J.W.
12/16/2011 $100.00
Mings, Brian
12/16/2011 $424.00
NELSON, KAREN
12/16/2011 $50.00
Pearce, Arthur
12/16/2011 $424.00
Stinson, L Gary
12/16/2011 $50.00
Thomas, Bob
12/16/2011 $50.00
UNMACHT, JAMES
12/16/2011 $100.00

Verifiable here ( 2012 - January 31st Report) http://www.azsos.gov/cfs/FilerSearch.aspx?id=200693346#

Its time these clowns just go away...
 
Well since Jerry's pig hunt isn't until next week (my bad, he has a rifle not a HAM tag!)and he doesn't even know if he's coming due to other commitments, and since you've found what you see as a "smoking gun" there is no need for further comment from me if and when I see him.

By the way, you do know that Jerry is running a campaign right? If you go back to his last election, you'll see where I sent him a contribution, even though I'm not in his district.

Don Martin
 
Looks to me like more than a coincidence that those particular people made those donations and it's probably best for you not to make any more comments regarding this guy. It appears it took those Board members and a few relatives to get enough together to get Weier's attention to sponsor that Bill. What's even more amazing is that some still will not admit that this was one shady deal and exactly who greased the palms of a legislator in a brazen attempt to get it done. This was dirty politics at it's dirtiestin an attempt to screw fellow hunters. Shame on them and anyone who calls people like that their friend!!!
 
I guess Weiers is busy out looking for the "real" sponsors of the bill like OJ was looking for the "real" killers.

This was a dirty deal and could not be more obvious. Emergency bill. Tag scam. SFW-UT fingerprints all over this approach.

Quacks like a duck. Walks like a duck. Steals tags like SFW...it's SFW.

Love how SFW uses welfare money from stolen tags to have a nice party, some jet setting trips to DC, and hand out inside deals to cronies. What % hit the ground? Right, that accounting is a bit out of date but most recent numbers on file should make everyone giving lover to SFW to shake their head in dismay.

A failure in virtually every aspect but the amount of welfare generated for cronies.
 
I'd like to share this e-mail that I got from Pete Cimellaro, one of the founders of AZSFW and his take on all of this. I have not always agreed with Pete on issues, but do respect him for all the work he has done for Arizona's wildlife and sportsmen.

I think his points on this are well made.

Don Martin


I know all of you are not on the AZSFW email list. Those of you who are, and have read the letter below, can disregard this email, or better yet, forward it to someone you know does not get it.

Unfortunately with the Blow-Up over HB 2072, we never did get to discuss the merit of what was being proposed and why it was being proposed. Yes, the manner in which the legislation was handled was at best foolish and perhaps even stupid. The outcry from active, engaged sportsmen and women was justified and certainly to be expected. However, now that AZSFW has had their bashing, I would like all of you to read below why AZSFW says they were attempting to pass this legislation. The information presented in this letter should be alarming to all sportsmen and women. To those of us who are passionate about wildlife and our hunting and fishing heritage, this is not something we can dismiss! If we choose to focus only on bashing the supposedly bad people who tried to pull one over one us; then the really bad people, the extremists who want to end what we enjoy will clearly be the winners.

I am biased, admittedly so, because for almost twenty years I have fought to engage sportsmen and women in all phases of wildlife management. This effort includes politics because this is unfortunately where most wildlife management begins and ends. I learned this in the fight to preserve trapping in both 1992 when we won at the ballot box and in 1994 when we got our heads handed to us. Both then and now the Arizona Game & Fish Department was and is restricted from being involved in political campaigns. While the Commission voted to support our efforts the expertise and resources of the agency had to be withheld. The same would happen today! You cannot expect the Arizona Game & Fish Department to be our saviors in any political issues. They have their own agenda and are restricted in how they can participate. Sportsmen and women must stand up for themselves and be prepared to be both proactive and defensive in the protection of hunting, fishing, and wildlife management.

I am also biased because of my past direct association with AZSFW. As a founder of AZSFW, I am a believer in why we formed the organization. I know well the people who are involved and they are passionate about preserving wildlife, hunting and fishing for all of us. I am also damn mad that they did not see what they were doing would be viewed by most active sportsmen as an assault. This clearly has diminished their ability to function and be successful at what is so important to all of us. They need to rethink how they are doing business and rededicate themselves to actively working with sportsmen and sportsmen conservation organizations.

Sportsmen also need to accept a more positive role in this process. So far what I have seen is people only taking shots at AZSFW while not advocating for a coming together to create a better working relationship among organizations and individuals. I have seen so much misinformation, inflammatory language, and implied threats, etc. that I am
embarrassed for all of us sportsmen. Active sportsmen are the key to the defense of hunting and fishing and we all must recognize this and be a part of that defense.

It's up to you, you can continue the rhetoric or work in earnest to be part of a much needed solution. Let's try to bring all of us together to address issues that are about to bury us.

Pete
 
It's pretty hard to be on SFW's side when we know what could have happened and that SFW money and Rep. Weiers were right there pushing for it to get through. What would we all be thinking right now if HB2072 had passed?.... I bet we would be being told it was in YOUR best interest average Joe.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-12 AT 02:29PM (MST)[p]I hope there's someone else on this thread that can translate Pete's message and expound upon it's contents specifically.

It reminded me exactly of the leopluradon in "Charlie the Unicorn":


Funny how the lesson taught was the same as in the video! SFW = Candy Mountain.

All credibility was lost by AZSFW/AAZSFWC forever by the way Weiers was paid off and the emergency bill was presented alone, much less the unaccoutability of funds raised, evasion of public input, evasion of AZF&G approval, nor the direct assault on the North American Model for Wildlife Conservation. It wasn't just one thing. There was a veritable "Candy Mountain" of problems with this fiasco.

To hell with the NAMWC, magical wonders are to behold when you enter the SFW Candy Mountain.
 
Pete C. said sportsmen "need to actively get involved". I think that alot of us have especially on Coueswhitetail.com protesting this HB2072 issue and creating a big stir that helped get it pulled. Secondly we have a meeting with ADA tomorrow night to go over alot of issues. Secondly he mentioned we should all band together for the "common cause" and I agree except that we thought we were banding together with AZSFW as our lead politically (at the urging of Pete/Chris a few years back) and now if we hadnt been watching, the group that was supposed to lead the political cause, AZSFW stabbed us in the back. Pete wrote a good emotional letter, but the root of the whole fiasco is "TRUST" and AZSFW broke the sportsmen's trust. We have always known we need to "band together/work together" but the biggest question is "WHO do we work with?" We need partners without hidden agenda's, partners we can trust. Sure hope some of the AZ guys off this website go to Bass Pro tomorrow night for the 6:00 meeting up in the gun room. ADA and alot of non-members will be there to go over very pertinent wildlife issues......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
You walk in and catch your wife in the sack with your "best friend". You tell me you're gonna invite him over for dinner next week? As far as I'm concerned, she's gone and he's gone. Sorry, as Allen said, the trust has been broken. I agree sportsmen desperately need representation, but AZSFW, AZSFWC and their board members should no longer be part of it. Its time for a new organization and some new faces so we can all move on.
 
Amen Brothers! Now it's up to you guys to get to that meeting tomorrow night and get the ball rolling. If this bunch can be wiped off the AZ map it may be that much easier to send the UTSFW packing too!
 
I don't say much here anymore I just usually read and leave since I'm not known for my political correctness. However I thought I had to chime in. I have in the past spoke up to the wise elders only to be sort of pushed away . My thoughts on this sfw thing is that it needs to go. That an organization such as the Ada or
Mdf should cut sling load and be rid of any affiliation with them.
It stinks to high heaven. Yes our deer herds are suffering but the answer isn't within the sfw or the politician that tried to sneak a bill through. The answer lay within the sportsmen and women in Az and the ability of the game and fish commission to listen to them and for those groups to come to understanding . Those with vested interest in our wildlife should be calling the shots not those with special interests .
Ok I'm done at the soapbox. Anyone going to be at the ADA banquet Sat ?
Bugler
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 05:33AM (MST)[p]Regarding the Alphabet Groups Outdoor Writer posted:

"I'm been mostly ambivalent about most of the alphabet groups for a long time because they represent such a small -- and normally VERY special interest -- part of the state's hunters. And although they do some good for wildlife in general, I'm not a big fan of the auction/raffle permits anymore. When first brought forth, they were worthy of support but have since perverted hunting beyond what I consider good for the sport."

I couldn't agree more Tony. I have been watching the 2% of the hunting community pose as the voice for AZ sportsmen and women for years. The fact is they rarely, if ever, are in contact with the average hunter and are so out of touch with their own membership it isn't funny. I am a life member of two of these groups, and have been for years. I have never been contacted for my opinion as a group member on any issue. This is wrong. These groups have become so incestuous at the top level over the years I really do not see any difference in any of them. When you talk about one you are, for all practical purposes, talking about all of them. For you guys who are good with the research it would be interesting to see how much member crossover the boards have for each of these groups both current and past.

The main thing most of these groups are good at is fundraising, and they raise some significant dollars. And where there is lots of money there will be those looking to figure out how to leverage that cash to their personal benefit. Whether that be politically, or as a way to establish the pseudo credentials to spin off a business or 501(c)3. And when self interest trumps the interest of the whole we all lose....... Terry
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 08:27AM (MST)[p]Don

From posts you have made, during the years I have participated in this website, I have developed a certain amount of respect for you, even though I have never met you and don't really know you. I understand some the the AZSWF members are your friends and you are reluctant to abandon them. However, the fact is, they tried to sneak a bad bill through, by buying off a local politician, that was not in the best interests of the average Joe, by falsely describing it as an emergency measure, deliberately avoiding any effort to seek input from the actual hunting community. I simply can't get past this, no matter how they may attempt to describe their "good intentions". As has been stated repeatedly, all trust with this group is forever lost.
 
Terry,

You know, I started hunting in AZ in 1961, probably before most of the members here were born. ;-) So I've had the "pleasure" of watching the evolution of hunting in this state for about 50 years now and writing about it for about 40 years. IMHO, that evolution has been unfortunately sad. I don't mean that in regards to wildlife management per se but more from the aspect of the perversion I cited in the item you quoted.

Obviously I have reasons for that opinion, but if I cited them here, I would be despised even more so than now. LOL So I'll leave it at that.


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Tony, will you be at tonights meeting at Bass Pro? This meeting will be to find out where ADA stands with AZSFW and to see where the "average person" sits within the current conservation effort. I believe the outcome of this meeting will help alot of folks determine "where we go from here". Since this directly relates to your occupation, it would be great to have your voice in the crowd......... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Alan, since I am up north now and have to work in the AM I will not be at the Bass Pro however I would love to hear of the outcome. If you would please report to those of us who can't be there I'm sure I speak for at least a few others besides myself in regards to wanting to know. I am of the belief that should the ADA stand with asfw it might possibly be bad for their member numbers and their legitimacy with the avg Joe. Thanks and if you want you can give me buzz. Let me know and I will pm my #. Thanks
JD
 
JD, there were about 20 people who met before the ADA meeting. At the ADA meeting there were about 36 people in the crowd. I believe that the ADA heard the message loud and clear that they need to sever their ties with AZSFW. Now wether that happens or not is to be seen. At least 10 people from the crowd spoke and expressed their frustration with AZSFW. Hopefully in the next day or two ADA will release a "position statement" regarding AZSFW. I sincerely want to see ADA survive and continue helping Arizona wildlife, so I am anxiously waiting to see what will happen...... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
Thanks Allen. I fully intended to go but came down with a nasty flu yesterday. Figured all I could do is spread around a virus. Sounds like you guys got it handled. Was there any talk about a new organization or a method for the legitimate wildlife organizations to get their lobbying done?
 
Awesome thanks Alan. I hope the ADA will listen to their members or at least send something out in the form of a survey and decide then. I believe the avg Joe so to speak makes up the majority of its membership.
I do believe in the mission statement of the ADA and will probably base a renewal this year on where they stand with the sfw. I am going to be at the banquet Sat because of that belief and it's really one of the best banquets I go to.
I'm wondering if they need board members again this year I am now in the position to sit again and would like to. Uncle Sam called up during the last stint and I had to give it up. hopefully will see you there, any of you. Alan if you're gonna be there I'll buy you whatever your drink is, it's been a long time.
JD
 
It was a pleasure meeting you Alan, I really think it was important you and other ADA members present and past like Terry, looked them in the eye and expressed a solid front against azsfw.

I decided to have no preconceived issue to discuss, as I've addressed so many with my 'keyboard' already... thought I'd just listen and react to something on the moment. I hope I wasn't to out of line with Jim from azsfwc, bet he wished he didn't ask for questions... lol

The political naivety with regard to this legislation and the changing of the conservation funding field legally... especially in the ability to launder conservation funds into political lobby funds... which will also change the legal field of the 30 original tags that exist now and that 100% goes back to the control of G&F.

Their attempt to hide behind the conservation skirts from the backlash of this this political disaster is frustrating and why they intermixed the political and the conservation so that they are dependent on each to survive in it's current form.

We have to accept a short term hit on the conservation side while reorganizing in some form. Same as any family where you lose a supporting income or loss or abandonment... you can only tighten your belt until things straighten out... that's a reality ADA and the other orgs must accept.

Kent
 
well I have waited all day for an email from. Ada. there is supposed to be a survey of all members feelings towards azsfw before Ada. votes on their future relationship with azsfw. personally I think. Ada will maintain their relationship despite how azsfw broke their trust along with all the sportsmen. I would love to continue my support of Ada but will not support them until ties with azsfw are severed. until then I am supporting Arizona elk society. they have a banquet in march and have publicly renounced. azsfw. maybe I will see some of you there..........allen............
 
Nice work Kent and Allen...THANK YOU for voicing what those of us whom couldn't make it would veritably concur with

Don't write off ADA too soon, they may come around

Thanks again guys

PS: as far as Cimarello's letter is concerned...weak, too little too late, and at least mildly insulting (who are YOU Pete, to presume that WE, the common people, don't do anything for conservation? Sounding a bit like Weiers in your pale and transparent 'communication'

Thanks for providing yet another collaborator's vain message Don ;)

You folks must be living in an imaginary world, where EVERYONE suffers from even more stupidity than you do :)
 
I am wondering why some of you guys are putting so much stock in what the ADA thinks. To me, a look at the list of the top names on the SFW tag grab shows people who are/were very connected to the ADA. The actions by the Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club and the Arizona Elk Society to break ties with SFW sends a much stronger message to me personally. Not stirring the pot here just honestly wondering why?.... Terry
 
First, YVRGC, AES and the Turkey foundation leadership was sitting right there with us at the premeeting and the ADA meeting. We had decided that this united front was important to show the ADA and it would trickle down to the azsfw. Add to that the voice of present and past members of ADA that spoke out forcefully against continued participation with azsfw.

It was a footstep forward.

Next tuesday evening we are having a meeting concerning possibly starting a small conservation group that will address some issues in the 40s units, just an informal feeling out of like minded individuals. YVRGC has asked to join the discussion and there will be G&F dept personnel most likely. So that meeting a few days ago has started something, whether it goes anywhere is yet to be decided... but another footstep.

Anyone that wants to come to the meeting is invited, it'll be in Buckeye so it's close to both the valley and the west of town guys. There is no real preagenda but discussing the issues of mule deer in region 4, everything else is on the table if you want to bring it up.

Go to thearizonahunter.com to find the threads about the meeting.

Kent
 
That's great Kent. Hopefully something good will come out of HB2072 yet. The demise of SFW, the consolidation of concerned sportsmen, and a new organization to represent our interests.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-12 AT 10:51AM (MST)[p]From what i've noticed . A good number of azsfw sit on the board of ADA and are members of different orgs AES etc.

Key members of azsfw at ADA will not go silent into the night. This is basically the last foothold, if they fail here most of the other orgs. should follow suit, as they have taken the wait and see approach.

Like they sit and wait and the "whatever" everyone else is doing is ok by me. Thats how they got into azsfw in the first place .

If it's actually up to the members of ADA ,I do not see them continuing down this distructive path. But with the key members of azsfw chatting up the good things - They will most likely continue to walk the fence - give them one more chance crap -

you watch the board isn't gonna do anything! In my opinion especially after they say we'll have a special meeting and then it accomplishs nothing more than a face to face with the same issues and no conclusion - ADA needs to pull up it's panties and walk away before they get molested agin.
 
I just went on-line and paid for my AES membership. I "will wait and see" what ADA is going to do.....LOL....I have to move forward personally and since AES has a banquet in March, me personally and alot of my friends feel like supporting AES upcoming banquet. I want ADA to survive (their support of deer, old mission statement etc...) but I am disappointed in the "new way" of thinking. If any of my money has a chance of going to AZSFW, then I am not comfortable with that. Thanks AES and YVR&GC for standing up for Morals & Principles............ Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
I will go to the banquet for AES and join as well. Anyone who does not support SFW will get my money from now on. Thanks.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-12 AT 03:52PM (MST)[p]I am going to support the ADA for now. My reasoning for doing so is as Allen put it, "the mission statement." im not sure if it has changed since I was on the board or not, but obviously something has .
I for one believe in that mission and in the members as a whole not the special interest type of member.
When I joined years ago it was becuase I strted seeing the decline in Deer numbers, habitat issues, special interest groups etc etc etc. I wanted the money I spent to go to something that was close to my heart. I have been hunting in this state with my granfather,father, uncles, all of my family and my childhoods friends who still remain close. We hunted deer with a bow while we were in high school across the state and it kept us out of trouble.
Now my own children hunt this state and i get tight in the throat when I see them put to use what Ive been taught and handed down. So the ADA was a great thing to invest something in and without the thought of something special for me but a way to help preserve the things I have so many wonderful memories of.
I am not going to bail on the group right now. However I firmly believe the board has made a grave and costly error.
They helped fight Taulman and USO, have done alot of good for the Deer in Arizona so im going to support them until I have a firm word from them about where they will stand with the SFW. I believe I speak for many when I say we dont want the SFW nor their bought off politicians. I dont think there is any other way to say it.
I have paid for my table at the banquet but it will be the last should they side with SFW I intentionaly ve the A out for obvious reasons.
The philosiphy (SP?) of the ADA was great, it has lost that recently. I hope they do whats right .....
 
I decided to go to the banquet tonight in support of all the good things Ada has done over the years. something has to Change with what happened with azsfw. and hb2072. hopefully Ada becomes part of the solution...... Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
a free ticket kinda relieves some of the pain- lol

please post / keep record of what the governors tags sell for and post ASAP
 
muley tag only went for 135,000.00. sure thought they would get more.....thought that buyers would have been somewhat pre set up......anyway it was a good banquet. I think alot of money was raised on other auction items........ Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
tag went for 135,000.00. I figured it would have went for more. Thanks, Allen Taylor......
 
All are invited to come listen or talk, there are over 20 coming now, plus some dept personnel should show.

I'm sure a small part of the discussion will be about the fallout of 2072 and how it has brought us together... but mostly it will address the issues of the lower desert mule deer decline the last couple years, how to make a presence there as a conservation group of individuals, how to work with the G&F and how do we work together.

I'm sure we will cover predator, unit and Tag issues.

Come if you can...

Thanks, Kent

Tuesday Feb 28th 6:00

La Placita Cafe
424 East Monroe Avenue, Buckeye, AZ 85326
(623) 386-4632 ‎
 
Wanna know why the tag didn't go higher? Its because Mr. Alan Hamberlin didn't bid on it like he has done in years past!

Yes this is the same guy who has paid a whopping amount for Arizona special tags in the past cause he knew the money went to deer projects that ultimately helped out ALL sportsmen.

Oh yes, I think he was on the AZSFW board and over the years has probably donated a MILLION dollars to conservation by purchasing special tags.

But no more guys. Nope he has seen and read all the info on these sites and he is done with it (spending his money on tags to fund projects).

So there is your answer, plain and simple. You posed the question, and I got an answer.

Don Martin
 
I guess Hamberlin is gonna get in line with the rest of Az sportsman, gonna be tough to hunt the strip every year that way.I guess my 10 year old will hunt it before he does again..and again..and again. BH1
 
>Wanna know why the tag didn't
>go higher? Its because Mr.
>Alan Hamberlin didn't bid on
>it like he has done
>in years past!
>
>Yes this is the same guy
>who has paid a whopping
>amount for Arizona special tags
>in the past cause he
>knew the money went to
>deer projects that ultimately helped
>out ALL sportsmen.
>
>Oh yes, I think he was
>on the AZSFW board and
>over the years has probably
>donated a MILLION dollars to
>conservation by purchasing special tags.
>
>
>But no more guys. Nope he
>has seen and read all
>the info on these sites
>and he is done with
>it (spending his money on
>tags to fund projects).
>
>So there is your answer, plain
>and simple. You posed the
>question, and I got an
>answer.
>
>Don Martin


Glad these posts are being read. HB2072 is a hot topic on every single website that focuses on Western big game hunting. 1000s of upset average Joes here. Two issues with HB2072: the "under the radar" approach to launching the bill and the bill's "coded" language that has all the tags and most proceeds being turned over to a single organization for 5 years without any measuable, specific milestones for Year 1, etc.

As for the under the radar approach. No one likes being left out of the process. No valid excuse for avoiding a discusssion with hunters to get input on how to fund a political lobbyist. When the dust settles, that is the bulk of what HB2072 accomplishes...funding a lobbyist.

As for handing over 100s of the best tags to a single organzation, we can look at Utah. The Utah experiment to allocate 200 of the best tags in the state for an expo show created a very powerful political entity that can heavily influence the will of F&G. Aggregating so much power in one person with limited oversight by the organation's members is a recipe that historically does not end well.

Did the Utah experiment boost the SLC economy? No. The boost was projected to come from attendees that came to SLC and used the hotels, eateries, cabs, etc. The results and several years of trying to grow the expo into more than a SLC metro event? A few hundred non-residents attend the Utah event and dozens are actually at the show to work in vendor booths and others are college kids living in Utah as non-residents. The Utah show attracts mostly day-trippers and that does not boost the economy any more than holding a spring gardening show at the Salt Palace.

Did the Utah experiment boost the Utah herds? Ask any deer hunter whether the herds are improving in Utah. The answer is resoundedly no. Money alone can not build a herd. Many of the Utah herd issues apply to Arizona. There is no magic bullet but if you want to use tag proceeds for conservation projects then the Utah model fails...only a small % is directed to conservation efforts according to a couple of people that attempted to wade through the most recent filings of SFW which lag by years what you will find if you look for filings from a RMEF, for example.

Did the Utah experiment give a powerful voice for outfitters, landowners with tags to sell, and anyone looking to obtain primo tags without beating 1 in 200 odds or wait decades to get to the top of a preference pool? Yes.

What about the wolf issue? Lots of posters say the Utah experiment hurt the process and success was in spite of SFW's tactics.

Solution in Arizona? Try an approach that aligns a significant portion of average joes with something that funds a lobbyist that can get more funding from the state for building the herds. That lobbyist needs to be managed by more than one organization, though, and certainly not one that is viewed as untrustworthy and getting marching orders from Utah. The number of tags provided to the Arizona experiment needs to align with measurable results. You get a dozen tags. Get results and you get a few more. Grow herds and you get a few more since that should be the goal...use a few tags to "grow" more tags so average joes have more hunting opportunity rather than just a political voice that asks to be trusted re results.

My opinion but collaboration is the preferable approach to build a broad base of support from a variety of hunters passionate about the future of our herds and hunting.
 
So we are going to be held hostage by the very folks that created this environment and alleged dependency... basically they created a bubble, just like the housing or oil speculation bubble... and if we don't go along they will pop it.

Obviously the million dollars wasn't a sacrifice for the overall good of conservation... it was to create the very dependency, carrot, stick and personal agenda we see now.

Well many of us are already suffering from the effects of the economy and 'bubbles' bursting... lost jobs, less pay, higher costs... we've had no choice but to tighten our belts and survive. I already said the conservation community will 'have to' not may, take a hit in funding over the fallout of 2072. Tighten your belts and ride it out. Attempting to legislate yourself a stimulus/bailout with public funds/tags like a liberal socialist and then crying and taking your ball home, isn't going to get any sympathy from most of us.

There is always a correction in a bubble, whether it's wall street, oil speculation, debt to china...

Kent
 
Keep making posts like that Mr. Martin as it is really showing where you truly stand on this whole issue and it isn't with us common folk! Go have lunch with your Rep. buddy who has also shown his true colors backing that sham of a Bill!!!
 

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