Western Hunt Expo Transparency?

LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17 AT 06:53AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17 AT 05:50?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17 AT 05:49?AM (MST)

Lee,
Don't be so quick to classify yourself. Also if you're going to quote me then give the full quote. You twisted that like you work for CNN. What I said was I'm not much of a dancer but I'd sip whiskey with the devil all night if it would save our deer herds. Not to get my own way. Big difference.
 
>Griz,
>
>I know your a smart young
>buck. However, I remember the
>days when the DWR were
>not that pro on big
>game hunting. Buck to
>doe ratios were 3-7 per
>100 on many units.
>The RMEF just kept 25-30%
>in Utah, most of the
>money from banquets went to
>MT headquarter. Big game
>hunting was poor and getting
>worse. The RMEF did
>do some projects,but were not
>making much difference. They were
>not in the political process,
>where important decisions were made.
>The DWR director said hunters
>would always buy deer permits,
>"It is a family tradition."
>
>
>You may think that hunting in
>Ut would be far better,
>without political influence from having
>SFW and sportsmen involved in
>the political process. Not
>all DWR employees were pro
>hunting in the past.
>
>Our Cache SFW banquet is pretty
>well sold out, 6 weeks
>prior to the banquet. We
>can't have more than 520
>people. I remember when
>you said were were going
>out of business a couple
>years ago.
>
>Our SFW chapture, with the DWR
>and other sportsmen (Who are
>not SFW supporters) are feeding
>deer at about 30 locations
>in Cache Valley. When
>there are issues like this
>the DWR talk with local
>SFW chapture leaders to decide
>what will be best.
>They are the ones that
>get things done for wildlife.
>
>
>RMEF maybe a good group.
>They are a different organization.
>SFW is a get R
>done type group. We
>have some local control, and
>a good relationship with DWR
>biologists and leadership. That
>makes it possible to get
>things done fast when needed.
>
>
>How long would it take for
>RMEF to get the deer
>feeding started?
>1. Is it part of
>their mission?
>2. Do they have the
>leadership and volunteers?
>3. Would they need to
>get the OK from MT
>headquarters?
>
>Enough said. You have a lot
>of passion, to try to
>improve things. You have your
>freedom to voice your opinion.
> Obviously not everyone agrees.
>
>
>RMEF lost the Expo contract.
>Get over it. It's
>the same thing as Hillary
>supporters not getting over the
>election.
>
>Best wishes.

Damnest thing. MDF is out all over claiming they are the ones who started the deer feeding. That its their guys doing it, and that they scratched a $30,000 check to kick it off. Now $fw is taking credit for it? What was $fw initial investment for deer feeding, and in fact, after all the MILLIONS your group has taken to "SAVE THE MULE DEER", why aren't they flat out covering the ENTIRE cost? Heres a proposal, donate the profits from the expo this year to deer feeding. FOR ONCE, use the money the way WE ALL were told it was going to be done when the expo abortion started. I'm old enough to remember when $fw started, and "saving the mule deer" was its number one focus, well, heres your chance, SAVE THE MULE DEER, scratch a big fat check and cover the feeding program, YOU HAVE THE FUNDS.

I agree, there are dudes out there feeding. There are dudes out there donating equipment and storage, GOD BLESS THEM. But there were dudes doing stuff long before we started giving a private org millions in public money(tags, tax supported expo). ITS TIME FOR $fw to PUT UP or SHUT UP. Quit telling us about what your gonna do, PAY FOR IT. SHUT ME, and the other critics up. IN FACT, I will join $fw, the minute that check clears to cover the feeding program. I will join, I will come in this forum and announce it, I will wear a $fw hat in the pics, and I will bring HAWKEYE along with me. SO, SHUT US UP, PAY THE BILL(the whole dammm thing), SAVE THE MULE DEER, live up to your word!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17
>AT 06:53?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17
>AT 05:50?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17
>AT 05:49?AM (MST)
>
>Lee,
>Don't be so quick to classify
>yourself. Also if you're
>going to quote me then
>give the full quote.
>You twisted that like you
>work for CNN. What
>I said was I'm not
>much of a dancer but
>I'd sip whiskey with the
>devil all night if it
>would save our deer herds.
> Not to get my
>own way. Big difference.
>

Big difference? Maybe to you, but not to me. I certainly apologize for the misquote, but we obviously have different priorities and saving our deer herds is further down my list than yours 'cause I wouldn't sip whiskey with the devil all night under any circumstances. Maybe you need to take a better look at who you champion or who champions you.

Like I said, quality is in the eyes of the beholder.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-17 AT 10:51AM (MST)[p]Well Lee we could break bread or drink wine with Jesus if that would help too. If that's what you're more comfortable with.

Sorry I just really like mule deer!
 
Hawkeye is far from the minority.

Myself and every personal hunting friend that I have support his views 100%.

Thanks for sticking with it Hawkeye!
 
heart,
If Hawkeye and you and your buddies are not the minority, are you then the majority? Because if you are the majority you are all doing a really pisss poor job of getting you own way.
 
I love it. The old "everybody I know is against this" train of thought. Some guy has ten drinking buddies that think just about like him because, lets face it, we like hanging out with our own kind, and so he has determined he isn't a minority.

Sounds scientific.
 
>I love it. The old
>"everybody I know is against
>this" train of thought.
>Some guy has ten drinking
>buddies that think just about
>like him because, lets face
>it, we like hanging out
>with our own kind, and
>so he has determined he
>isn't a minority.
>
>Sounds scientific.

Then why do you come to MM instead of hanging out with your own kind?

Sounds scientific.

Grizzly
 
Based upon my experience over the years, most sportsmen don't even know about the Expo Tag issue. A small fraction of Utah's sportsmen actually attend the Expo and those that do generally assume that the money generated from the tags at the "Hunting and Conservation Expo" is actually used for conservation projects. Most sportsmen have never attended a fundraising banquet put on by a conservation organization and don't know the difference between a Conservation Permit or an Expo Tag. Most sportsmen have never been to a Wildlife Board Meeting and are not familiar with the backgrounds of the gentlemen who make the wildlife decision in Utah. In my experience, most average sportsmen are focused on drawing a general season deer tag so that they can hunt with their family and are completely unaware of this issue.

Couple this lack of knowledge with the fact that SFW has worked extremely hard to lobby and build relationships with the key decision makers within state government. For instance, pick some of the most outspoken SFW supporters in our state legislature and then do some research as to whether entities controlled by Don Peay and Ryan Benson have made donations to those individuals in the past. Look at the current makeup of the wildlife board. To quote M73, SFW has used some of the $8+ million that are unaccounted for from the Expo Tags in order to develop a "strong voice" within out state government. I believe this is what SFW and the DWR means when they say that SFW and MDF use the remaining 70% of the Expo Tag proceeds for "policies, programs, personnel, etc."

We may all be smiling when SFW is flexing its muscles and using its "strong voice" (that we as sportsmen help finance) to help feed our struggling deer herds during a tough winter. But how do you feel when SFW uses that voice to limit stream access for fisherman? Or how do you feel when SFW refuses to use that voice to speak out on the transfer of public lands? And how do you feel when SFW flexes its muscles and uses its voice to quash efforts to improve accountability and transparency with our public resources?

Sportsmens groups represent the interests of their members -- as they should. Therefore, the groups should be built up and financed by membership fees and donations. The State of Utah should not be in the business of handing out millions of dollars in premium tags to specific groups so that those groups can then influence wildlife management decisions through lobbying, campaign donations, etc. That is why the current decision makers within our state government are unlikely to make any significant changes to the Expo Tag system. Many of them benefit from the status quo or have relationships with people that benefit from the current system.

-Hawkeye-
 
See Hawkeye this just shows a lack of maturity on your part. You think because SFW doesn't represent %100 of YOUR values then no one should follow them or support them. Actually that's a little off. In reality you think if SFW doesn't share %100 of your values you should be able to lie on the internet in an effort for everyone to leave them.

When the reality is they may support your values on certain issues but other values of other members of "the public" on other issues. It doesn't mean that they are "corrupt" or only care about another demographic. You need to learn that there is no perfect Hawkeye group. They don't exist. If you want the Hawkeye conservation group, quit whining on the internet and go start it.

Trust me if everyone thinks just like Hawkeye, and you can keep them all happy because they do, then you will be the most successful conservation org in America.
 
>I've told you before. I
>am here for the deer.
>


Man, your poor kids. ITs more important the deer than your own kids. That explains alot of your reasoning Tri.
 
Tri, your lack of reading comprehension got you again. No surprise there. I never argued that SFW should support 100% of my values.

Rather, I believe that the DWR should be focused on funding wildlife and conservation projects that benefit wildlife. I don't think that the DWR should be giving away public assets to support conservation groups. That is why the money should be earmarked for actual conservation projects and accounted for. There I go using "big words" again.

-Hawkeye-
 
Actually I am all for healthy deer herds before I am for guaranteeing my kids get a deer tag.

The difference is my kids won't have to be poachers when your's are Robiland.
 
Policy, and personnel ARE CONSERVATION. That is the difference I am saying that your childish brain can't get around. YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ.

This is way in the beginning we were asking YOU to define YOUR version of conservation but you realized you were in over your head and failed to answer the question like you do in most of your posts.
 
So you aren't gonna let your kids hunt with WLO? Wow, didn't think you had it in you but that was the first thing you've said that sounds like a good decision!
 
>Actually I am all for healthy
>deer herds before I am
>for guaranteeing my kids get
>a deer tag.
>
>The difference is my kids won't
>have to be poachers when
>your's are Robiland.


Dont worry about my kids there big boy, my kids wont be poachers. As stated before, my kids wont hunt with WLO, so we are good. But i guess your will. I guess it runs in the family.
 
"Dont worry about my kids there big boy, my kids wont be poachers."

Well not everybody is cut out for the outdoors. I am sure they are great kids anyway.

Typical hypocrite statement. Talks about someone else's kids and then tells that person not to worry about his kids.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-17 AT 01:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-17 AT 01:04?PM (MST)

Not worth responding to a troll!
 
"During this tough winter, deer love to feed on POLICIES."

And programs, personnel and pencils. Don't forget those expensive pencils or Tri will jump all over you!

-Hawkeye-
 
I came on here to talk about the subject at hand Robiland. You came on here to talk about me and my family. Its a little late for you to act righteous now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-17 AT 02:59PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-17 AT 02:47?PM (MST)

That's funny. I thought the subject of this thread was transparancy and I haven't seen any explanation of why the SFW/MDF won't state what they spend the 70% on. Oh wait, "policies, programs, projects and personnel". Any reputable organization can do better than that...maybe they should go into politics as they're resistant to give any official explanation. Lame!
 
>I came on here to talk
>about the subject at hand
>Robiland. You came on
>here to talk about me
>and my family. Its
>a little late for you
>to act righteous now.


LOL, yep, you win. Although you have not ever answered any questions asked of you. You're here to talk about the subject, lmfao. Yeah youre really good at that, lolololol.
 
What question did you ask me on this thread that I didn't answer. Name it Robiland. Put up or shut up.
 
Tri-

Nobody asks you any real questions because you have no real information or answers. It is okay to have differing opinions but you are just a troll. Everyone can see it except you, birdman and M73. The only question that you are qualified to answer is did you ask founder to remove your BLAAAM sheep thread. But we all know that you refused to even answer that question, and frankly we already know the answer. Keep up the good work!

-Hawkeye-
 
When Robiland gets backed into a corner out pops Hawkeye to protect him with long speak and no logic.

I find it humorous you call me a troll after you have spent the last four years of your life whining about something you haven't been able to change. Whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining and whining.

You don't come on here and share hunting adventures. You don't give people hunting advice. You don't come here with any first hand hunting experience which could enrich others. Nope you come here to bash SFW. THAT IS A TROLL.
 
And your hunting advice is to hire WLH because they cook the best meals and tuck you in at night?? Well this knucklehead can cook a mean peach cobbler.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-17 AT 01:23AM (MST)[p]>What question did you ask me
>on this thread that I
>didn't answer. Name it
>Robiland. Put up or
>shut up.

First, I'm going to correct the record on Tri's actions and then I'll ask him a direct question that he can answer to "put up or shut up" as he so eloquently writes.

First Tri denied the sheep was even killed and demanded proof, saying pictures can be faked. Then he produced the actual picture of the dead ram, likely forever tarnishing the name of the outfitter involved. Then he defended the outfitter as a "great guide". Then he asked to remove the picture. Then he avoided answering any questions about why he asked to remove the picture while accusing others of avoiding questions.

So here's your chance to "put up or shut up"...

Did you ever even have permission to post the picture of the ram or did you do so without the outfitters permission or that of the woman who shot the ram?

Why did you ask to remove the picture that YOU posted?

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-17 AT 06:15AM (MST)[p]Grizzly,

Absolutely nothing you posted is true about what I said or did.

THAT IS THE TRUTH.

If you don't know the truth you can never get to the truth you seek.


By the way you realize you, Hawkeye, and Robiland have hijacked this thread in hopes no one will notice that yall are a bunch of whiners that didn't get your way.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-17
>AT 06:15?AM (MST)
>
>Grizzly,
>
>Absolutely nothing you posted is true
>about what I said or
>did.
>
>THAT IS THE TRUTH.
>
>If you don't know the truth
>you can never get to
>the truth you seek.
>
>
>By the way you realize you,
>Hawkeye, and Robiland have hijacked
>this thread in hopes no
>one will notice that yall
>are a bunch of whiners
>that didn't get your way.
>

Quit feeding the troll
 
Puffy,
You really shouldn't use the word coward. You're the one ducking and dodging like a classic internet biitch. Not even a troll. When are you gonna stop playing that roll? Back it up please.
 
The butthurtness is real, huh muley?
Can't handle some negative facts about your beloved $FW? Seems to me you're the thin skinned b!tch. Pigboy's a question dodging coward, kinda like you.

What am I ducking and dodging?
 
Always enjoyable to watch someone who doesn't know the difference between fact and opinion tell someone else he is "butthurt" while siding with a group that has whined for the past half decade about the same garbage that no one else cares or believes.
 
Puffy,
The SFW is nothing more than a tool to me. Let's not pretend and play stupid. You know why I'm calling you out. So are you gonna man up and back your shiit talk or are you gonna continue to just be a loud mouth that pusssies out when they get called out in the real world.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-17 AT 12:08PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-17 AT 12:06?PM (MST)

Puffy,
I spelled it out from the start. Haven't waivered a bit. Like I said to start we can talk face to face or are you only about being a mouth on the internet? I'm not butthurt at all. I'm just letting you know how serious I am about you talking about my kids. Not butthurt just letting you know what my reaction to that is. So let's talk or are you not welling to back up your mouth in the real world?
 
Let's see if we can get back on track and avoid the threats and chest pounding. Perhaps these questions will spark some discussion. SFW and MDF have posted the following on the hunt expo website (https://huntexpo.com/permits/):

"What is the $5 Expo Permit Program?
There are two primary purposes in operating the Utah Wildlife Expo Permit Program:

-To generate revenue to fund wildlife conservation activities in Utah.
-To attract a regional/national wildlife exposition to Utah."

QUESTIONS - Since one of the stated purposes of the Expo Tags is to "fund wildlife conservation activities in Utah," do you think that it is fair that only 30% of the proceeds are earmarked for actual "conservation activities in Utah"? If not, what percent of the proceeds do you think should be earmarked for actual conservation projects?

"Where does the $5 application fee go?

Hunters are charged a $5 per-permit application fee when they apply in the expo permit drawing. The DWR must approve in advance how 30 percent of these funds are spent. Expo organizers (SFW and MDF) spend the remaining 70 percent on policies, programs, projects and personnel that support a significant number of conservation initiatives across the state of Utah. All of the $5 application fee revenue directly benefits wildlife conservation in Utah."

QUESTIONS - Do you support SFW and MDF being allowed to spend 70% of the Expo Tags proceeds on "policies, programs, projects and personnel"? Do you think that SFW and MDF should be required to account for the use of those funds? Do you agree with the statement that "all of the $5 application fee revenue directly benefits wildlife conservation in Utah" given that SFW and MDF are allowed to spend 70% of the proceeds on "policies, programs, projects and personnel" without providing any accounting to the public?

I look forward to hearing your responses to the statements from the Hunt Expo web page.

-Hawkeye-
 
"Do you support SFW and MDF being allowed to spend 70% of the Expo Tags proceeds on "policies, programs, projects and personnel"?

"Do you think that SFW and MDF should be required to account for the use of those funds?"

"Do you agree with the statement that "all of the $5 application fee revenue directly benefits wildlife conservation in Utah given that SFW and MDF are allowed to spend 70% of the proceeds on "policies, programs, projects and personnel" without providing any accounting to the public?

Yes.

No.

Yes.



DC
 
I have no problem whatsoever with SFW not giving you an anual audit each year of what happened with the other %70. Doesn't bother me in the least bit.


Yes I support SFW spending that money on policies programs projects and personnel.

Yes I readily except their statement that all of the money directly benefits wildlife.


I answered those questions straight. Now Hawkeye I want you to do something. Add up the price of all of the 200 tags, if they were drawn by the public, and tell me what that sum is.
 
DC, I couldn't disagree more regarding the non-requirement of public accountability in the sell of public property.

But I do respect the right of you to have a differing opinion than mine and I appreciate you being stand-up about it.

Grizzly
 
>I have no problem whatsoever with
>SFW not giving you an
>anual audit each year of
>what happened with the other
>%70. Doesn't bother me
>in the least bit.
>
>
>Yes I support SFW spending that
>money on policies programs projects
>and personnel.
>
>Yes I readily except their statement
>that all of the money
>directly benefits wildlife.
>
>
>I answered those questions straight.
>Now Hawkeye I want you
>to do something. Add
>up the price of all
>of the 200 tags, if
>they were drawn by the
>public, and tell me what
>that sum is.

You readily EXCEPT OR ACCEPT their statement that all money directly benefits wildlife?

Ill give you credit, this is the 1st time you have ever answered a question, although you answered it incorrectly according to your ideology.
 
That's a flat out lie Robiland and you know it.

By the way if you want to make fun of my crappy spelling go right ahead. You will stay busy, but you may want to learn the difference between "I'll" and "Ill".

I bet Hawkeye never answers my question though.
 
Tri, I vowed not to respond to trolls but if you need help doing basic math then get a calculator or ask any 3rd grader.

-Hawkeye-
 
SO you have been trying to convince everyone of some incestuous relationship between the state government and SFW but you won't tell these people the value of the 200 tags you are pi55ed about???????


Sounds like it really isn't about the money and if it ain't about the money then the accounting is meaningless. If the money was really important I would figure a guy like you would have that number.
 
>[font size="1" color="#FF0000"][/font]
>

>
>If you don't know the truth
>you can never get to
>the truth you seek
>


LMAO

Somewhere out there there's a man in a snuggy and shower shoes and he only talks half as crazy as this.
 
Why do you think they haven't spoken the truth yet Fishon?

Maybe you would like to answer what the total value of the 200 tags is if they went into the public draw?
 
If words matter then why don't you kids get it right?

The 200 expo tags ALL go to the lucky few regular Joes out there who attend and apply at the expo and ALL the tag money goes to the F&G.

The only dollars in question are "application fees" which are given freely by the expo attendees and split between a couple orgs and the F&G.

It's fine to have questions but there are those who KNOW the difference yet love to perpetuate the fairy tale and continue to allow some to call it "tag" fees, as though the F&G is cheated out of their money!

Carry on,
Zeke
 
Fishon,

Don't you think it's time to grow a set and actually answer the question or are you scared people will see it's less money than the state spent promoting your show?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-17 AT 07:11AM (MST)[p]
I will answer your question. and when I am done I would ask you just one question at the end. Lets see if you can "grow a set" and answer that question.

Now If the UDWR marketed the 200 permits online with a $5 application fee and they got to keep the fee they would generate more money than the hunt expo generates. Their expenses would be less and all of the money would go towards Utahs wildlife. Utahs wildlife would receive a lot more money under this scenario. There are restrictions on the 200 permits and how they can be applied for right now and that is why only about 11,000 people apply for some or all of the 200 permits. This generates roughly 1 million dollars a year.

If the DWR could market them they would generate 10 or 20 times as much interest and revenue. SO yes, the DWR marketing these permits would generate a lot more revenue for wildlife and have a lot less expenses. In fact they have the ability to do this now and could hire an employee at $45,000 a year to oversee it. Now it would not be the "SHOW" that is put on but the bottom line revenue generated would be much much more.

Also I could market the 200 permits online and I would generate 10 million dollars or more as well and I could do it for $45,000 and return the rest to the DWR and the states wildlife would receive more money than under the current arrangement. Tri You could generate more money if you ran it online as well. The tags would sell themselves.

SO if it is just about what would generate the most money for Utahs wildlife that actually goes back to Utahs wildlife it would not even be close.

Now about the Utah County show which you are ignorant too but decided to comment on,

I report to the legislature with the tourism money the Utah County expo receives, they get a 100% transparency report of every dollar spent, where it was spent and how it was spent. A complete breakdown and not $1 of it goes to salary, or travel expenses or consulting fees. 100% goes towards advertising and marketing. They also get an extensive breakdown provided by the Tourism department of the economical impact the expo has on Utah and they get the demographics. Meaning who is attending, what age, what sex, what county and or state etc. The Utah County show is not even non profit yet it shows EVERYTHING to the powers that be. And then the governors office gets an estimate on what the show will do the next year and where the funds will be spent as well before the money is ever allocated.

So Tri once again you are out of your league and are referring to things you know little to nothing about. But I will tell you what. If you want to attend the Utah County show I would be happy to buy your ticket and walk you through it myself. You could get your own personal VIP tour and I'll even show you my books and anything else you want to know about the show. I'll buy you lunch and even take a photo with you if you would like. Maybe you can sign it for me so I can hang it on my "wall of fame".

So how about it Tri? Will you take me up on my offer to come experience the Utah County Expo first hand and have full reign of all its books? If the answer is yes I will even put a fund together to pay for your travel and hotel while you are here. I will arrange for Hawkeye and all your other "peeps" that you interact with to have a meet and greet with you and shake your hand so you can see what a sportsman and conservationist looks like.

What do you say Tri? Do you accept my invitation? Grow a set and accept Tri, I know you can do it.



Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
I can't believe you spent that much time and effort typing all that AND DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Are you trying to hide something? Did you spend all last night typing all that which began with, and I quote, "I will answer your question", AND THEN NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION????????? DO you have any concept of truth?

The question is HOW MUCH REVENUE WOULD THE 200 TAGS GENERATE IF THEY WERE SIMPLY IN THE DRAW AND NOT DISTRIBUTED AT THE EXPO? I am happy with a simple gross number here.
 
I did answer the question but your simple mind can't understand it. Give them to me, I will put them in an online application draw charging $5 per application and I would generate 10 million dollars. The DWR would generate $10 million dollars and even you TRI with a little help from Hawkeye to make sure you were legal would generate over $10 million dollars. Need I be any clearer?

Now do you accept my invitation to come to Happy Valley?

ony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
You are clearly dodging the question. Not how much could you make with the tags.

Let me make it clearer for you since you are having problems. IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE THERE IS NOTHING BUT A DRAW SYSTEM AND THESE 200 TAGS ARE NOW DRAW TAGS. WHAT IS THE GROSS THAT THEY GET SOLD FOR? All 200.

Now try to answer again.
 
>I can't believe you spent that
>much time and effort typing
>all that AND DIDN'T ANSWER
>THE QUESTION


Who didn't see that coming?
 
I think Tony answered the Question 3 times in each post, but Tri cant read, I guess, therefore he cant see the answer.

TONY, I AM IN to help pay if he accepts, but he wont.
 
Thanks Robiland, We are gonna have this paid for soon Tri. Now the answer 1 more time is

Put the 200 tags in a draw and they will generate $10 million dollars with a $5 application fee. How much more clear do you need me to be. In fact I would guarantee that if they gave me the tags. Man I could even take 50% commission and it would still mean $5 million dollars for wildlife. That would give me enough money to higher you Tri and you could be my little crony and I could pay you to troll MM and stir up stuff you know nothing about. After all you are an expert on everything you don't have a clue about.

Now are you coming to Provo?

Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
As I understand the ? Tri is trying to get an answer to is, what is the "retail" value of the tags if they were sold via the normal DWR draw? If that's the question, it really can't be answered because it depends on whether they are sold to a resident or non-resident. All that aside, I'd like to hear why this seems to be a pressing or an important question? It has absolutely no bearing on anything as anyone can easily see the normal "public" value of the tags are way less than can be generated via the Expo draw, or auction or raffle or whatever. Anyone could spend time to look up each tag and use R or NR prices and come up with a number which would be a waste of time since it has no bearing on anything other than to try to divert peoples attention to the real question at hand from the OP. That question pertains to transparency and how 70% of the money generated from the 200 tags is being spent and more importantly why the SFW and MDF don't want to publicly answer the question. I'm certainly not in the know as much as many of you but after following this thread and reading articles on the subject, to me it seems the Utah DWR was responsible for issuing/awarding the contract and how everything was setup so as a public agency they are not providing the best service to benefit Utah wildlife. The SFW and MDF don't seem to help matters by their unwillingness to disclose facts or be transparent so they deserve all the flack they are getting too. Big money seems to change peoples attitudes if you can imagine that! I'll miss attending the show and choose to spend my money elsewhere.
 
This sounds like it would lead to great posts for years to come. That alone is worth the money.

If Tri decides to "grow a pair" or to "put up or shut up"... then I'll contribute.

Grizzly
 
Classic. I will personally contribute to Tricycle's trip to Provo, Utah to spend the day with Tony so long as I don't ahve to be there. Even better, I would personally fund a one-way ticket for Tri to a remote location so long as there is not internet access when he arrives. ;-)

I love it when Tri repeatedly asks foolish questions that he could answer in 30 seconds through a google search and some basic math. Then when he gets ignored for being a troll, he assumes that he has outsmarted us all and has won some type of victory.

There is a saying that the fool doesn't know that he is a fool so if you tell the fool that he is a fool then does the fool know he is a fool or are you being the fool for attempting to convince the fool?

-Hawkeye-
 
OK, someone who knows please clarify...

As I understand from previous posts its the $5 app fee that is in question not the tag cost. Is that correct? So a good deal of the money is variable depending on how many people apply/enter the drawing. In a drawing at the expo, or one done by fishon or one done by DWR the tag fee revenue is the same. The number of people who pay the $5 fee changes.

I may be totally wrong. Wouldnt be the first time. And I'm not picking a side. I'm asking someone who KNOWS if I understand the argument.
 
Zeke is correct. The debate for the past 10 years has always been about the revenues generated from the $5 application fees, which have averaged around $1 million/year since the Expo Tags were created. See post #149 above. When somebody refers to "Expo Tag fees "most of us know that the are talking about the proceeds from the $5 applications.

Whether the 200 tags are distributed by SFW/MDF through the Expo or by the DWR through the regular drawing, the DWR still collects its permit fee. If you are one of the lucky hunters to draw a tag at the Expo then you receive a voucher for the hunt. You still have to purchase the actual permit for the DWR and they will collect their standard fee for that tag (different for residents and nonresidents). The issue has always been about the roughly $1 million dollars a year in application fees that was supposed to be used for "wildlife conservation activities" in the State of Utah.

-Hawkeye-
 
I would personally fund a one-way ticket for Tri to a remote location so long as there is not internet access when he arrives. Too funny!!
 
Let me try to dumb it down Tony...


Dear Tristate, will you come to Provo & attend the Utah County Expo?

Please select 1 (one) answer with Y=yes or N=no:

YES I will come to Provo & attend the Expo
NO I will not come to Provo to attend the expo
 
Listen, At the end of the day I'm glad the groups are at least returning 30% of the application fee. That is 30% more than they were for the first 10 years. I really don't care about it anymore as I am not in the "non profit" world. I dont apply for these permits and if I did and I drew I would simply give it to my kids to hunt.

I ONLY chimed in because some out of state troll who knows really nothing about Utahs wildlife or the expo or the expo tags or how they even were created chimes in like he is the one who created the program. Wait, is Tri even a he? I guess I won't know unless he/she comes to the Utah County show. I better be politically correct.

Anyway, its a dead issue to me. The groups have a deal and most of you go to it and spend your money on another chance at a tag. You support it by applying and I'm fine with that. I choose not too. That is y choice.

All I hope is that the money goes to wildlife and does some good. I don;t expect a full accounting of it just like I don;t expect a full accounting of the feds money spending. It is not gonna happen because the rule does not require it to happen.

I have no problem with the "intent" of the expo tags, But don't come on here and say it is the ONLY way to generate that kind of money for wildlife. I promise you anyone awarded the same 200 tags would generate a MILLION dollars or more. There is no secret recipe. That you can take to the bank my friends.

See you all in Utah County March 10-11. Robiland is handing out FREE ICE CREAM cones to EVERYONE including The Trimester if he will take me up on my offer to attend. VIP treatment for you Tribaby. Tri and make it if you can.

Ice Cream rules

Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
"I have no problem with the "intent" of the expo tags, But don't come on here and say it is the ONLY way to generate that kind of money for wildlife."

Really???? Care to quote me where I said that boy? Go show all your little jonesenites where I told you that. In fact I haven't seen anyone say that. Do you know how to read?

The problem is you decided it was your job to insult people who perform a service to the state and tell them the money they provide a service for was a "handout", AND I CAN QUOTE YOU ON THAT. Then you got your panties in a twist when I pointed out the fact that the state of Utah gives you $150,000 to promote your expo. THAT IS A HANDOUT. You don't have to turn around and show them you made more money for them. You don't have to give them a percentage of the proceeds aside from taxation maybe. I don't care about the accounting. I care that people see YOU behaved like a lying hypocrite.

Obviously none of this is about accountability because not of one of you can account for the state value of the tags WITHOUT SFW being involved.

Now you can get internet tough and say your going to pay for me to come to your Provo show. You can call me whatever name you want that shows you can't let go of third grade but I DO KNOW THE FACTS OF WHAT YOU HAVE SAID ON HERE WHICH IS A LOT MORE THAN YOU.
 
Facts are something you have no understanding of. I never hid from the money the State puts into tourism with the Utah COunty expo. But again I must explain to you your ignorance. The tag money only 30% is accounted for, the tourism for the Utah County event is 100% accounted for and spent on promotion and advertising and many ways to get people to the event. DO you see the difference Tribaby? It is ALL spent on the requirements put forth with the appropriation. Oh and guess what my salary is from The Utah County Expo? ZERO, NOTHING, NADA. it all goes back into spending more money. You know what happened the other day when a company sponsored the show for another $12,000? I went out and bought another $12,000 is advertising. Novel idea huh?

Its called transparency and accountability of 100% of the funds.

That is what this thread started as and as a NON RESIDENT you have no idea of the facts; You have second and third and fourth person opinions, I have 100% facts as I was one of 3 people that created the expo and tags. I know your simple mind wont understand that but TRi my man Tri.

So when are you going to answer my question? Are you gonna come to Utah for an all expense paid trip to the Utah County Expo and let me show the books and all the dollars and anything else you want to see about it?

Answer Tribaby if you can.

Also if you want I can have you come up to the meeting when I will present ALL 100% of the tourism dollars to the legislature. You want to come to that?

Of course you dont. YOu dont want the truth, you want to come on here and troll people about things you know nearly nothing about.

Transparency, look up that word and tell me if I qualify for that and if the hunt tags qualify for that?

But I really just want you to answer if you will come to the most transparent expo on this planet? All expense paid. C'mon Trimester, are you on board?
TRI to answer my man I know you can do it.

Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
You are melting down Fishon. You literally can't keep it together. You keep trying to make up arguments WHICH I HAVE NEVER ARGUED. You keep trying to talk about your transparency when I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH TRANSPARENCY, YOUR'S OR SFW'S.

I don't need to fly to Utah to see anything. My problem isn't your show. My problem isn't your books. My problem is that you are a hypocrite who talks down to people about their government "handout" while the government slides $150,000 dollars into your show's pocket. SO FAR YOU HAVEN'T DENIED THAT. Instead you just make up arguments that haven't even occurred. THE FACT IS I CAN QUOTE YOU. You can't quote me as saying anything you have accused me of.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-17 AT 00:14AM (MST)[p]>
>Obviously none of this is about
>accountability because not of one
>of you can account for
>the state value of the
>tags WITHOUT SFW being involved.

Per: www.wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/biggame/pdf/2017/2017_sportsman_odds.pdf

If the Expo tags were distributed by the DWR through the current Sportsman Permit process (or something similar), the tags would directly return between $10,004 and $35,139 each depending on whether the application fee was $5 or $10.

The math: 55,301 apps/11 tags = 5027 apps/tag
5027 apps x ($5 - $3.01 Fallon)= $10,003.73 per tag
5027 apps x ($10 - $3.01) = $35,138.73 per tag

Compare that with an indirect return of $1,737 per tag from the 2016 Expo.

The math: 231,672 apps/200 tags = 1158 apps/tag
1158 apps x ($5 - $3.50 SFW) = $1,737 per tag

Yes, I know that SFW returns some of the $3.50 to wildlife and leverages the $1.50, but even if they gave it all back to wildlife that's only $5,790 per tag. And the DWR could leverage that money with NFS, BLM, NRCS, SITLA etc. just as well as SFW does or better. And you have to remember that the Sportsman Permits are only available to residents, so if they were marketed with the Expo Permit DWR criteria (no points considered, no current waiting periods considered, no OIL limit imposed, complete one application open draw for each and every tag without respect to draw sequence, etc.) AND open to non-residents AND without the Expo verification requirement, then those numbers would rise significantly.

Bottom line; Those Expo tags could be worth a lot more without SFW than they are with them!
 
Hey don't be confusing WW's now big guy.

Willey is gonna chip in I sure as chit ain't.

It's hard enough for a Salt Lake County guy to sneak over the wall and back a couple times a year.. What
do you think the penalty would be for smuggling a Texan in there that ain't named Detmer??




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
Tribaby

I accuse you of ignorance. That is an accusation everyone but you realizes. But its always the ignorant one that does not know. ANd I'm melting down so bad that I probably will just cancel my expo. :)

Transparency Tribaby. That is the post topic. Come on down and Ill show you EVERY DIME the tourism puts into the expo and where it goes and what it returns. Thats is transparency.

You are just ignorant to how it was created and how it operates. YEs, the tourism granted $150,000 for the Utah COunty Expo. And yes every dime of it was spent on the show and accounted for. That is transparency.

You see in Utah the state has a certain amount of tax revenue that they put towards tourism, its not tags or permits that take from the public. Its tax dollars specifically used to generate tourism and more tax dollars Lots of things and ideas get that money It always has and always will be used for tourism.

Tri to understand what transparency is. Anytime you are ready to roll to Provo I'll foot the bill. I will have Hawkeye and Wapiti teach you about transparency.



Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
Dang Tri,
Something has to be wrong for a guy to turn down an all expense paid trip to an outdoor show. Maybe your probation doesn't allow it.
Just sayin?
 
I'm gonna give you some props Tri. You finally came out and told us the truth. You told us you don't care about looking at anyone's books or transparency. It does not matter to you. I can and do respect that. Everyone has different priorities and things that are important to them even though Some don't agree with that. But also remember you are not from Utah and it seems like you don't even hunt here. So you have no real vested interest in the process as it does not effect you.

Anytime someone chooses to tap into any public resource, whether it's tags or tourism dollars or grants or anything similar they automatically put themselves in a position to be scruntinized and questioned by the public. The hunt expo, the big outdoors expo, stadium of fire, Sundance and. Countless other entity's all chose that path.

The big difference between them all is the hunt expo takes tags out of the public draw and forces one to go to an event to draw one. That is the difference. The other entity's get financial backing to promote tourism. Now at the end of the day you can say they both are trying to accomplish the same thing but they are done by very different paths.

But you see hunters are a funny breed. I can promise you that the vast majority of hunters would rather the hunt expo gets $1,000,000 from tourism to promote the expo than the 200 tags.it might be the same financially but it is very different in actuality and appearance.

Hunters feel that something is being taken from them when the tags are awarded to the expo and than they feel they are spit on by not getting an accounting of all the dollars.

That is the issue. I believe if the money generated by the tags was all transparent that hunters and the public would have very little to say unless it was shown it was mostly going to salaries and not going to wildlife.

At the end of the day the hunt expo tags are not going away, and to be honest I don't want them to. I believe some good that is measurable comes from them and I believe some unmeasurable good also comes from them. But I also know that more good could come from them. More transparency and openness.

There is a large amount of tax revenue generated by those that attend the expo that most people don't see. There is an actual formula the state tourism department has that can show what the economic impact is by that event. Maybe the expo people could get those numbers and put themout for the public to see.

Now I don't believe a certain portion of hunters will ever be satisfied regardless what the expo releases or reports. But I believe most of them would if the transparency was there.

Tri you don't live in Utah, you are not effected by what this is all about. You don't know the 20+ year history of how we got to where we are. These are things that many on here have lived through and understand much better than you. I would guess there are countless things that happen in your state with wildlife that we know little to nothing about. Step back and try to look at it that way if you can.

Whether you agree with the expo tags or not they are here to stay.people. They are not disappearing and they are not getting awarded to a different group. Sfw and Mdf have them for life unless some fraudulent scandal happens. I don't see a fraudulent scandal and I don't see the tags going away.

30% returned to wildlife is 30% more than it use to be. Maybe in 10 more years that will be 50%. Only time will tell.

As long as 10,000-12,000 people apply for these tags and it generates $1,000,000+ the expo tags are hear to stay.

Look at it from the legislatures perspective. ThAt is $5,000 per animal averaged out that is generated that would not be otherwise.

Give credit where credit is due. When MDF and SFW and FNAWS dreamed up and got this Implemented they knew what they were doing. It was a brilliant plan and one that thousands of hunters support. That is undeniable as they apply every year.

Hunters need to be grateful for the 30% return because initially there was no set number. Hunters need to continue to expect transparency.

In my opinion these groups who I know very well would do themselves a huge favor by showing more of this money goes to wildlife. But that is just one mans opinion.

My ship has sailed on this subject. I've moved on to other things. But rest assured Tri, I was one of 3 that created the expo and the tags. I was there at the beginning and I take some credit or blame for where it is now depending what side you sit on. But I know how it all came to pass, I don't have an opinion. Opinions are for those that see things from a far. Knowledge is for those that actually created it. Like me or not I have that knowledge.

Enjoy the show this year people, I hope you get the tag of your dreams and it turns into the critter of your dreams. And I hope the money generated goes to Utah wildlife.

Hope to see you all March 10-11 at the big outdoors expo At UVU. I don't have any hunts I'm giving away but I do have a Honda side by side, a Fort Knox gun safe and a few other cools things that all attendees can enter to win for no charge.

Look for founders post, he will be giving away more tickets for free to the show.

Thanks for a great site Brian, it gets people involved one way or another.






Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
Yall sit and throw this word "transparency" around like the news throws around the word "racist". It sounds big and important AND COMPLETELY HIDES YOUR MOTIVE.

Hawkeye, fishon, elkfromabove, note one of you can come up with actual figures from the DWR when I ask for them. I don't care about the numbers. I care that it shows you really don't care about the math. The accounting isn't your agenda. YOUR AGENDA IS TO STRIP THE SHOW OF THE TAGS AND PUT THEM BACK IN THE DRAW. Whining about accounting for years straight is how you think it will happen.

You talk about "transparency" when what I am talking about is TRANSPARENCY OF YOUR SOUL. You pointed your finger and looked down your nose and called it a "handout" while the government actually did give you a handout.

Now I am going to teach you a lesson. I realize you are in competition with other hunting shows. Don't even try and argue that. Bigfin tried to argue that and a year later we all got to see the other side of his face. I don't care if you are in competition with them. I like competition in business. But here is the lesson. DON'T TALK TRASH ABOUT THE COMPETITION. If you want to compete against them do it with performance and not your mouth.

Next it would do you well to quit assuming you know anything about my motives, how I hunt, or my connection to hunting.


Now you like to talk about the facts and transparency, HERE IS THE FACTS. Utah does not give that show those 200 tags. FACT! The show is allowed to set up a distribution model for those 200 tags. FACT! If you are lucky enough to win one of these tags you are still required to pay the state for the tag, and the state distributes a tag to you, not SFW or MDF. FACT! The tags are still distributed randomly to "the public". FACT! The idea that the state gave a handout to anyone is a childish opinion. It is just as silly to think the postal service owes an accounting of every tag they mailed just because they charged money to handle it for the state. It is customary within the great United States to pay for a service EVEN IF IT IS FOR THE STATE, and then not spit in the service provider's face when they do the job.

One last fact. The state is showing how the public, hunters and non-hunters alike, are effected and can profit off of wildlife AND HUNTING. That is an extremely important victory in the battle for our hunting privileges.
 
Fact another 280 posts and he will still not figure out the UTAH hunters problem with the transparency of the expo



Oops my bad
Just fed the troll
 
"Next it would do you well to quit assuming you know anything about my motives, how I hunt, or my connection to hunting."

Ditto


"It is just as silly to think the postal service owes an accounting of every tag they mailed just because they charged money to handle it for the state"

However, the postal service should be held accountable for how they spend the money from the stamps on the envelopes.
 
The travel fund should include some sort of survival award for Tristates family. Can you imagine living 24/7 with this fucktard?
 
I apologize to all of you. I tried to enlighten Tri but it is not possible. He is now telling me, one of the 3 creators of the expo and the expo tags how and why it was created. I simple have no words.

And after I just said I did not want the tags to go away he just said in his own words.

" YOUR AGENDA IS TO STRIP THE SHOW OF THE TAGS AND PUT THEM BACK IN THE DRAW."

Also he is telling me my show is in competition with the hunt expo. And I quote

"Now I am going to teach you a lesson. I realize you are in competition with other hunting shows. Don't even try and argue that".

Tri, My show is not a hunting show. Not even close to a hunting show. No real similarities to a hunting show. IN fact it is about all outdoor activities. Hunting and fishing are part of it but it is 4 wheelers, and mountain bikes and outdoor photography and golfing and trail running and skiing and many many other things. And if you want to take my invitation to attend and come up you would see that.

My show is an hour away in a different county marketing to 90% of a different crowd. Other than it being an expo it is very different from the expo that you are an "expert" about.

Last thing Tri, when someone is educated from experience and knowledge of something and created something that makes them qualified to comment on it. In court it is called an EXPERT WITNESS.

LEt that sink in, EXPERT WITNESS. that means I am an expert on the topic and a witness to how it was created. Those are 2 things you will never be when it comes to the hunt expo or tags.

Just like you wont be n expert on The BIg Outdoors expo either. But me Tri, I am an expert and a witness to both. Those are the only FACTS you should concern yourself with.

You need help my man, you need it in a bad way. For someone that is not vested at all in Utah you sure claim to be an "expert".

Its not even funny anymore, it is simply SAD. You and your approach are SAD.

I think I am gonna go finish melting down now like Tri told me I was. After all he knows all the facts of everything from the hunt expo and its tags to The Big Outdoor Expo and its tags. Man I dont even know why I comment on either. I mean being one of the creators of both holds no credibility. Being an EXPERT WITNESS doesnt even matter. And being TRANSPARENT means nothing.

I give up, my meltdown is complete. The Great TRI had put me in my place and now I am finished. I am enlightened and educated thanks to Tri.

And I tried to repay him by paying for him to come to Utah but I guess he is too good for me.

MELTDOWN COMPLETE


Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
" He is now telling me, one of the 3 creators of the expo and the expo tags how and why it was created."

No I didn't. Apparently you don't know how to read. I never said anything at all about how or why expo tags were created.

Again you are lying.

What I do keep showing you is how YOU TOLD PEOPLE THE TAGS WERE A HANDOUT WHILE YOU RECEIVED AN ACTUAL CASH HANDOUT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.


As for the competition thing, I knew you would deny it like others denied RMEF being in competition with SFW. Some people know better.

Like I said this is about transparency still but you don't like it because the light has been shined on you.
 
Hey expert witness, I'll give you another tip. If someone actually ever does use you as an expert witness, don't sit up there on the stand and lie like you do here. They don't take kindly to that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-17 AT 06:17PM (MST)[p]>Yall sit and throw this word
>"transparency" around like the news
>throws around the word "racist".
> It sounds big and
>important AND COMPLETELY HIDES YOUR
>MOTIVE.
>
>Hawkeye, fishon, elkfromabove, note one of
>you can come up with
>actual figures from the DWR
>when I ask for them.
> I don't care about
>the numbers. I care
>that it shows you really
>don't care about the math.
> The accounting isn't your
>agenda. YOUR AGENDA IS
>TO STRIP THE SHOW OF
>THE TAGS AND PUT THEM
>BACK IN THE DRAW.
>Whining about accounting for years
>straight is how you think
>it will happen.
>
>You talk about "transparency" when what
>I am talking about is
>TRANSPARENCY OF YOUR SOUL.
>You pointed your finger and
>looked down your nose and
>called it a "handout" while
>the government actually did give
>you a handout.
>
>Now I am going to teach
>you a lesson. I
>realize you are in competition
>with other hunting shows.
>Don't even try and argue
>that. Bigfin tried to
>argue that and a year
>later we all got to
>see the other side of
>his face. I don't
>care if you are in
>competition with them. I
>like competition in business.
>But here is the lesson.
> DON'T TALK TRASH ABOUT
>THE COMPETITION. If you
>want to compete against them
>do it with performance and
>not your mouth.
>
>Next it would do you well
>to quit assuming you know
>anything about my motives, how
>I hunt, or my connection
>to hunting.
>
>
>Now you like to talk about
>the facts and transparency, HERE
>IS THE FACTS. Utah
>does not give that show
>those 200 tags. FACT!
> The show is allowed
>to set up a distribution
>model for those 200 tags.
> FACT! If you
>are lucky enough to win
>one of these tags you
>are still required to pay
>the state for the tag,
>and the state distributes a
>tag to you, not SFW
>or MDF. FACT! The
>tags are still distributed randomly
>to "the public". FACT!
> The idea that the
>state gave a handout to
>anyone is a childish opinion.
> It is just as
>silly to think the postal
>service owes an accounting of
>every tag they mailed just
>because they charged money to
>handle it for the state.
> It is customary within
>the great United States to
>pay for a service EVEN
>IF IT IS FOR THE
>STATE, and then not spit
>in the service provider's face
>when they do the job.
>
>
>One last fact. The state
>is showing how the public,
>hunters and non-hunters alike, are
>effected and can profit off
>of wildlife AND HUNTING.
>That is an extremely important
>victory in the battle for
>our hunting privileges.

WRONG! You don't know my agenda on this issue any more than you think we know yours. I simply gave you a possible scenario that counters your insistence that the current use of those tags and it's impact should be sufficient enough not to make any changes. In fact, I'm sure even you could come up with a "better" use. But, like the Expo Partners per their current arrangement and Expo Permit Application, I suspect your changes would likely come at a price to the typical Utah hunter.

My agenda is two-fold and it's NOT to strip the show of the tags and put them back in the draw, but if that's what it takes, so be it.

My agendas are:
1)INSURE THAT THOSE APPLICATION FEES ARE MAXIMIZED TO DIRECTLY BENEFIT WILDLIFE AS WAS INTENDED WHEN THEY WERE SET UP.

2)REDUCE THE EXCESSIVE LEVERAGE THOSE APPLICATION FEES NOW PROVIDE TO THE EXPO PARTNERS TO INFLUENCE RAC AND WILDLIFE BOARD DECISIONS WHICH BENEFITS THEM WHILE NEGATIVELY IMPACTING THE TYPICAL UTAH OUTDOORSMAN'S AND WOMAN'S OUTDOOR LIFESTYLE.

The first is what this thread is about and is probably easier solved to most people's satisfaction even though the conversation here gets heated up by the rhetoric and stubbornness of posters on both sides. Afterall, it's just a money problem, isn't it, and could be solved by simple math?

The second is much more political and subversive. Most of us have a direct connection to the policies being established by the Wildlife Board and when we discover the changes in the new Guidebooks just a month or so before we apply for a tag or go hunting, sometimes it doesn't set very well. But by then it's too late for many of us who don't have the time to attend midweek, midday Wildlife Board meetings in Salt Lake City.

We expect and assume the DWR and Wildlife Board are looking out for us, but too many times that is just not the case. They pay more attention to those who show up and speak up at the meetings and/or contribute all-at-once large sums of money to the DWR. Our measly annual spread-out $100-$500 dollar donations don't draw much attention or press coverage, even though there are hundreds of thousands of us doing it and we've been doing it for decades. Under the current system we're expendable on a one-by-one basis. They know we will be replaced by some youth (maybe our own) who will then donate $100-$500 each year for decades. It isn't personal, it's just business.

So, how do we fix it? Or do we even want to? It's not likely that we can pool enough money together often enough to get their attention, but we sure can show up and speak up at the meetings on a one-by-one basis often enough to make a difference. And I don't mean with a rude, disruptive demonstration as we've recently seen. A simple polite 3-minute "I don't agree (or do agree) with that proposal because" statement at the microphone at a midweek evening RAC meeting at the local (or nearby) school/city office/DWR office RAC meeting is all you need. The Wildlife Board meetings are harder to get to for some of us, but we can all email/fax/mail/text/phone/facebook/twitter our 3 minute statement to the Wildlife Board members. Any (and every) DWR hunting or fishing Guidebook or the DWR website can tell you how to do that. Let them know what you think. That's the difference!

Good luck with the draws. (Yes, even the Expo draw if you apply.)
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-17 AT 05:12PM (MST)[p]The top SFW haters. A group of individuals that have spent literally 1000s of hours fighting against SFW the expo and the tags and the whole situation in general. Spent time in front of government officials, attorneys and government agencies and here we are 4 days out from another successful expo and what are these experts or the subject, champions of the "average joes" doing......they are interweb battling a taxidermist from Texas on literally a 3rd grade level. Go get em boys....you're helping our wildlife leaps and bounds. Crazy the way some people see the world and reality.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-17
>AT 05:12?PM (MST)
>
>The top SFW haters. A
>group of individuals that have
>spent literally 1000s of hours
>fighting against SFW the expo
>and the tags and the
>whole situation in general.
>Spent time in front of
>government officials, attorneys and government
>agencies and here we are
>4 days out from another
>successful expo and what are
>these experts or the subject,
>champions of the "average joes"
>doing......they are interweb battling a
>taxidermist from Texas on literally
>a 3rd grade level.
>Go get em boys....you're helping
>our wildlife leaps and bounds.
> Crazy the way some
>people see the world and
>reality.

"Crazy the way some people see the world and reality"
Hmmm!
 
Who are you referring to as the haters Cody? Certainly not I. That page was turned years ago for me. I just like the facts and truths to be told and the taxidermist from Texas knows none of either. And success is different depending how you look at things. YEs there are many that consider the Expo and tags a huge success, and there are many that consider both a travesty. Perspective differs for many. They are both opinions.



Tony Abbott
www.thebigoutdoors.com
801-885-1274
 
Nope not at all Tony. Figured I'd see you at the Friday afternoon auction actually. You're a doer not an internet hero. We may disagree on something's but I know what you've personally put in over the years. Tip of the hat. In all truth I was surprised to see you posting.
 
Lee,
I promise you have nothing to worry about. You and I are not even in the same solar system on what reality is. :)
 

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