Words to live by

wileywapati

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-21-16 AT 05:13PM (MST)[p]

North American Model of Wildlife Conservation

The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is a set of principles that has guided wildlife management and conservation decisions in the United States and Canada. Although not formally articulated until 2001, the model has its origins in 19th century conservation movements, the near extinction of several species of wildlife (including the American Bison) and the rise of sportsmen with the middle class. Beginning in the 1860s sportsmen began to organize and advocate for the preservation of wilderness areas and wildlife. The North American Model of Wildlife Conservation rests on two basic principles ? fish and wildlife are for the non-commercial use of citizens, and should be managed such that they are available at optimum population levels forever.

Wildlife as Public Trust Resource

In the North American Model, wildlife is held in the public trust. This means that fish and wildlife are held by the public through state and federal governments. In other words, though an individual may own the land up which wildlife resides, that individual does not own said wildlife. Instead, the wildlife is owned by all citizens. With origins in Roman times and English Common law, the public trust doctrine has at its heart the 1842 Supreme Court ruling Martin V. Waddell.

Elimination of Markets for Game

Commercial hunting and the sale of wildlife is prohibited to ensure the sustainability of wildlife population. This principle holds that that unregulated economic markets for game and nongame wildlife are unacceptable because they privatize a common resource and lead to declines. The Lacey Act of 1900 effectively made market hunting illegal in the United States, and the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 provided international protections from the market.

Allocation of Wildlife by Law

Wildlife is allocated to the public by law, as opposed to market principles, land ownership, or other status. Democratic processes and public input into law-making help ensure access is equitable. Laws regulating access to wildlife include the 1940 Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act, Endangered Species Preservation Act and Fur Seal Act of 1966, the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972, and the 1973 Endangered Species Act.

Wildlife Should Only be Killed for a Legitimate Purpose

Under the North American Model, the killing of game must be done only for food, fur, self-defense, and the protection of property (including livestock). In other words, it is broadly regarded as unlawful and unethical to kill fish or wildlife (even with a license) without making all reasonable effort to retrieve and make reasonable use of the resource.

Wildlife is Considered an International Resource

As wildlife do not exist only within fixed political boundaries, effective management of these resources must be done internationally, through treaties and the cooperation of management agencies.

Science is the Proper Tool for Discharge of Wildlife Policy

The North American Model recognizes science as a basis for informed management and decision-making processes. This tenet draws from the writings of Aldo Leopold, who in the 1930s called for a wildlife conservation movement facilitated by trained wildlife biologists that made decisions based on facts, professional experience, and commitment to shared underlying principles, rather than strictly interests of hunting, stocking, or culling of predators. Science in wildlife policy includes studies of population dynamics, behavior, habitat, adaptive management, and national surveys of hunting and fishing.

Democracy of Hunting

This tenet is inspired by Theodore Roosevelt's idea that open access to hunting would result in many benefits to society. The right to hunt in the United States and Canada by citizens of good standing is in contrast to nations where hunting is restricted to people with wealth, land ownership, or other special privileges. This tenet supports access to firearms and the hunting industry, of which much funding for conservation is derived.




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
Thanks WW for the great read. To bad in today's world things like this are corrupted, and devised to promote power and money for some that choose to be parasites on public assets
 
Amen. The Utah Model is gradually eroding the NACM and moving in the direction of commercialized hunting all in the name of "Conservation."

-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]Hawkeye,

What we are starting to find is the NACM now may be standing in the way of conservation.

Wiley,

One thing you don't quite understand is the actual consolidation of the wildlife under one owner, the state, has actually made it easier to seize control and abuse all wildlife. Can you imagine how hard it would be for a special interest to take control of wildlife and wreck it if the wildlife were truly owned by tens of thousands of property owners in a single state alone. By bringing it all under one roof you have made it to where those who desire evil for the wildlife only have to corrupt one house. Like I have told you before, the hand you hold can hold you down.
 
Tristate said: "What we are starting to find is the NACM now may be standing in the way of conservation."

Yes, that is what you and Don Peay have been saying for a while. You even posted an article from Outdoor Life advocating for that postition:
http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles...nk-north-american-model-wildlife-conservation

Unfortunately, you conveniently ignore one of the most relevant points in that article which is: "Demand absolute transparency from the nonprofit organizations selling special tags on behalf of states."

-Hawkeye-
 
Thankyou Hawkeye for taking notice of that article. Its important. However if you read my original post on that I didn't declare it a book in a new wildlife Bible. I stated it did have some good points and others which weren't. It has nothing to do with "conveniently ignoring" things. But it is great that some people are starting to think outside of the brainwashed past that they have been indoctrinated into.

People don't understand that the entire face, juxtaposition, and dynamics of our wildlife, populace, and government have changed since the NACM was fabricated. Think of it like painting a house. You used a big wide brush to paint on a really high quality coat of paint that has lasted and protected the house for decades. That doesn't mean when the paint starts to peal away you can never repaint the house, much less a different color.
 
Was this a good point or a bad point from your article: "Demand absolute transparency from the nonprofit organizations selling special tags on behalf of states."

As you can guess, I agreed with that statement.

-Hawkeye-
 
I guess I would call it a stupid and unnecessary point. If you want to assume I am saying that is bad then go right ahead.

That is a business and social topic. Not a wildlife management topic. We are talking about restructuring and redesigning the GOVERNMENT'S role in conserving wildlife and there is no use micro-managing pennies of private industries to do that. It is nothing more than a distraction to take heat and responsibility off of the state agencies.
 
TriTip, I actually agree with your statement but not the reasoning behind it.

We are living it right now with the SFW / Special interest groups influence and a spineless state management entity.

That being said, there is no way in hell I'd participate in a daily waterfowl blind lottery.

Let's keep the baby and flush the rotten bath water.




"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
Wiley,

That's basically what I have been trying to tell you for years. The state agencies need to be gutted and re-designed. We may disagree on the final product but we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
 
We are not talking about micro-managing pennies that belong to private industries. Rather, we are saying if the DWR is going to turn over hundreds of public tags to private conservation groups to raise money for conservation work (which is a whole separate debate), then we as the public should demand absolute transparency with the monies generated.

-Hawkeye-
 
Richard says:
>"I guess I would call it
>a stupid and unnecessary point.
> If you want to
>assume I am saying that
>is bad then go right
>ahead."


WTF? Really? DUH!!!

LMFAO!!!
 
"We are not talking about micro-managing pennies that belong to private industries."

Yes you are. That is exactly what you are talking about doing. Why start lying about it? It is what it is. Either you can defend your position on the topic or you can't but it is quite unnecessary for you to lie.


" Rather, we are saying if the DWR is going to turn over hundreds of public tags to private conservation groups to raise money for conservation work (which is a whole separate debate), then we as the public should demand absolute transparency with the monies generated."

That is not what you are saying at all BECUASE THAT IS NOT HAPPENING. THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT HANDING OVER TAGS TO PRIVATE COMPANIES. If you are confused that's OK, but if you aren't confused that means you are spreading a lie.


Listen Hawkeye, I don't mind that you have an opinion of how you want to know the business of conservation orgs. That doesn't bother me. Its the fact that you literally twist all assemblance of reality into whatever BS story you can to try and win favor. If your position was that good, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO.
 
That's right Hawkeye. I will always drag you back to having to face the truth. I do not care who hates me for it.
 
So damn close TT.

The issue is the perversion and growing distance from the North American Model.

Utah fails on so many of these disciplines it's hard to argue about what you are saying.

If you have a house with a great foundation ( NAMWC ) but the framing gets termites ( The UTDWR leadership, Wildlife Board and special interest groups ) it's safe to tear down the structure and build on the footings and foundations.

Private ownership of big game is a disaster.



"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
First of all Wiley, THERE isn't one single example of Utah DWR abandoning or perverting the NACM.

Second private ownership of big game is not necessarily a disaster. Much like public ownership of big game it can be good or bad. Don't be so closed minded.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-23-16 AT 06:17PM (MST)[p]Tri, the Utah DWR currently segregates %5 of all LE permits for wealthy bidders.
The Utah DWR currently segregates 200 permits for people that attend an Expo.
The Utah DWR segregates a large percentage of the remaining permits to max point holders.
The Utah DWR prohibits successful applicants from obtaining specific permits to hunt specific species for a period of 5 years or once in a lifetime.
All of the above are a restriction of access.

I could dig in to the sister that requires scientific management, but Lumpy and Peayday would still try and convince all of us that bucks do give birth and fecundity is a myth. Killing 8000 cow elk per year won't lead to disaster and finally that non targeted predator killing is effective. It all sounds great in a RAC or WB meeting but just ain't true.

Fact is, the Utah DWR has created a system where no spine is required. If I had a $20.00 for every time I had a DWR employee tell me a management decision was a social issue I'd winter in Cancun.

I'm agreeing with you, I've said it from the beginning. This Utah DWR Leadership either needs to grow a pair and start representing wildlife and hunters or resign. My point that I've maintained since about 1998 that the world would be a better place without SFW in it still is true in my mind.






"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 
"Tri, the Utah DWR currently segregates %5 of all LE permits for wealthy bidders.
The Utah DWR currently segregates 200 permits for people that attend an Expo.
The Utah DWR segregates a large percentage of the remaining permits to max point holders.
The Utah DWR prohibits successful applicants from obtaining specific permits to hunt specific species for a period of 5 years or once in a lifetime.
All of the above are a restriction of access."


A HUNTING SEASON IS RESTRICTION OF ACCESS. Your hunting tag is restriction of access. There isn't big game out there for every man woman and child. That's why its called CONSERVATION. ITS RESTRICTIVE. If it wasn't restrictive it would either be called a free-for-all or extinction. Restricting access and making distribution decisions doesn't violate the model NOT ONE LITTLE BIT.
 
In to the glue a bit early??

Just when I think TriTip is finally headed down the right path for once, reality delivers a ##### slap.



"If the DWR was just doing its job, and
wildlife and hunting were the actual focus,
none of this process would even matter.
But that is not the focus or the goal in any
of this. The current DWR regime, and
SFW were born out of wildlife declines,
and are currently operated and funded
under that paradigm. Those 200 Expo
tags would not even be worth anything if
the focus was where it was supposed to
be, and wildlife and tags were plentiful.
But under the current business model,
that is how the money and power is
generated. It is generated through the
rising "value"(monitization) of a declining
resource. A resource that is supposed to
be being beneficially managed for the
masses that own that resource, ie. US.
The problem is obvious, hedging is not a
long term sustainable strategy, and
others have to lose, for some to win. In
this case it is us, the many, and our
resources, that are being forced to lose,
because there is a minority who's power
and money is derived from our loses."

LONETREE 3/15/16
 

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