Would it be legal???

M

muleyman

Very Active Member
Messages
1,538
If you came across a wolf, and it was coming at you, and you shot it, is that legal? How would I be able to prove anything? Or is it "if you kill it, you're responsible" no matter what. Of course there is always the "don't tell" method...Are they on the endangered list?

With more and more of these large RATS coming to our state, its only a matter of time before our elk and deer herds are going to be really effected.

Our ranch in Joseph has tons of whitetails on it, but hearing and seeing these bastards makes me sick.

muleyman
 
my guess is, you would 100% be legal to kill a wolf if it were actively coming at you or another person at close range and you were attempting to retreat from it. no different than if it was another person.

any thing other than this scenario and you could probably be charged with some kind of a crime.

although wolves are no longer on the federal endangered species list they are protected under the state of oregons endangered species list. just kill'em and walk away and keep your mouth shut and as long as no one saw you do it your probably safe.
 
I live in Crook County, if you see a wolf headed south or west he's probably working his way down to get me. please shoot it.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-04-10 AT 09:01PM (MST)[p]From my understanding you can't even protect yourself. If you shoot one, you better be able to articulate why you felt your life was in danger. No matter what, you probably will be charged federally and by the state. I know I wouldn't hesitate to shoot one if I felt my life was in danger!

I've been out in the wenaha a lot over the past years and our elk numbers are going down. I got to what a group of wolves this spring kill a couple cow elk. Pretty sad!
 
i read a study the other day ( i cant remember the source off hand), but it stated that "if" a wolf was shot in the guts, more than likely the bullet would pass through, thus being unable to find where the shot came from, and then the wolf would travel for miles before it dies, thus making it impossible to trace where that bullet came from.


just a thing i read. did anyone catch that article?
 
No you can not shoot a wolf under any situation. I wouldn't even try that gut shot method. Most likely a bullet will be left behind and you may become an example by the courts. Nothing like losing your right to hunt 30+ states under their agreement.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-05-10 AT 11:47PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON May-04-10
>AT 09:01?PM (MST)
>
>
>I've been out in the wenaha
>a lot over the past
>years and our elk numbers
>are going down. I
>got to what a group
>of wolves this spring kill
>a couple cow elk.
>Pretty sad!

The calving recruitment has been having problems way before wolves came into the Wenaha unit. ODFW noticed the problem a long time ago and then finally did a 6 year study. The study finished 2 years ago and the paper should be finished at the end of this summer. There has been a lot of snowmobile searching for those wolves and they are like ghosts. They are there but only a small pack. I don't even this the first pups that were born a couple of summers ago made it. Not sure about last year.

How did you know it was a wolf kill? Did you report it? What area in the Wenaha was the kill? I'm heading over there on some scouting trips this summer to help a friend hunt elk. He should draw the archery bull tag this year.
 
Here in Idaho they have almost everything killed off, they were killing all the yearling moo cows right in the feed lot behind my buddies house, not more than 500 yards from a main road, best thing about it....got to watch USFWS kill all eight of them out of an airplane...Oregon is next on the list to those damn things, they don't know the borders of states they are supposed to be in...kill em all.
 
Hey Blacktail,

It seriously takes over 2 years to complete a "paper" on wolves killing elk? Can't believe someone actually got paid to do this. No wonder this state is a half billion in the hole! A normal individual with common sense could do it in about an hour. Do you really think you are going to see a wolf by riding a snowmobile around? They do have ears! Seriously, how high is that success rate? Small packs? You got to be an ODFW employee with this line of BS. Maybe small packs but there are thousands of small packs! Seventeen years ago I seen two wolves on the North Sister, fifteen years ago one ran across road near Sahalie Falls on McKenzie, ten years ago seen four near Hart Mtn, and this year saw tracks and chit of one near Crane. How about that for the start of a paper? These fools keep blowing smoke up everybody's arse cause they think they are the educated ones and the public is stupid. Being book smart is not a good thing in this world. Hell just the other day more cattle were killed over by Joseph. Rancher does what he is to do cause his hands are tied. He has to call in the idiot "professionals" to investigate. He should be investigating it himself with an ultra mag and a backhoe! End of PROBLEM! There is a reason our ancestors got rid of these damn things. They used common sense. SERIOUSLY!
 
bull n rut......I agree....if not an ODFW employee, somehow independant working with fish and wildlife. COMPLETE line of BS!

I talked to Wolf biologist out of LG last summer, he was looking for 2 more mating pair of wolves so they can "delist" them. I call BS on that.......he said "we need to locate and collar 4 mating pairs in Oregon, so we can delist them" Uh....If he has not goten the final 2 pairs collard by now, he needs to be fired and hire someone that actually wants to do the job. They waste sooooo much money! They were hiking in THICK vegetation with binoculars in MIDDLE of the day, looking for wolves.....come on...really?

Blacktailslayer.......tell us for truth what you ACTUALLY do for a living. I know you are VERY book smart.........
 
LAST EDITED ON May-30-10 AT 05:46PM (MST)[p]Blacktail,
What do you mean, "How do I know if it was a wolf kill?" I filmed four wolves move down a ridge line and work into the next draw surrounding a group of 12 to 15 cows and yearlings. A couple days later I went into the same draw and there was one dead cow and one dead calf. Not to hard to figure out!
Yes I reported it. I gave ODF&W the video. I was told, since it was in the wilderness, it was to difficult for the "wolf expert" to walk in and confirm the kill.
A week later a friend of mine saw the same four wolves playing with a spike bull for about two hours. They never killed the bull but the bull was very exausted to were it wouldn't even run, it just layed down as the wolves played around him.
As to what area. They move around a lot. A ranch up on Grouse Flats saw them in there field. Another couple saw them kill a cow on Eden Bench. I've seen activity from Dry Gulch all the way up to Cougar Creek in the Wenaha. People have seen them clear over into Sheep Creek, off the Grande Ronde. So, they move around a lot.
I did notice that ODF&W was supposed to remove two cougars from there Wenaha survey, but ended up not doing it. Never heard a reason why they didn't. Don't think two would have made much of a difference!
 
You got me curious now Bob! I think maybe he was busy spending government money that this state obviously does not have on a wolf hunting expedition in Joseph..... I would really like to see the bill on the killing of those two wolves. It should only cost the rancher two bullets. Hell, I would donate the bullets. Hell, I would come assist. Hell, I would bring the backhoe!
 
Chris, sign me up! BS is not spending taxpers money......he is a college student trying to get hired full time by a wildlife agency......book smart....not enough days spent in our country to be Mountain smart. Actually, most hunters that are average hunters have more inteligent things to say.....Scientific research has got us along ways, huh? IE; Starkey Experimental Forest and Range....
 
Well Geezus, why does that not surprise me. Just what this state needs is more book smart people trying to manage the game. Too bad it doesn't take a common sense degree to manage game. I know lots of people including myself that would love to have the job.
 
Cut BS some slack, at least he is getting to hear both sides of the situation. I'm not a wolf fan so to answer the original poster's question I'm pleading the 5th...
 
Look guys, I'm with South Paw, let's not gang up on BS.

Not every Billy Bob with a rifle is a salt of the earth straight shooter, just the same way not every state employee is a lazy SOB. Many of my best friends work for a state fish and game agency and they're all field tested stand up kind of guys. It's just that they're typically hamstrung by chicken $hit political appointees. I'm not on either side of the wolf issue, but to say that Oregon is overrun with wolves and that's the problem with deer and elk populations is completely false.

Hammnit
 
IF YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER YOU SHOULDNT EVEN QUESTION YOURSELF ON WHETHER OR NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. JUST PLAIN STUPID I AM JUST SAYING
 
sorry, but i dont believe in the "if you cant beat them, join them " theory.

whoever is in charge of managing wolves OR deer , need to lose their job. yep UNEMPLOYED! i do believe their hands are tied to a degree, but a hell of alot more could be done than what is being done now.

the last thing we need is someone with "more schooling" to help run this Game managment. you cant tell me wolves are not BAD for this state, and expect me to think your not a moron, just because you went to more schooling.

1 thng 4 sure, thay culd problie spel beter and punk2ate beter thin me:)
 
I agree with you KB. And Muleyman, I don't need to plead the 5th, SSS. We are not "ganging" up on BS. Just tired of the "educated" BS. For those of you that think wolves are not the problem to the deer and elk herds, come on, I mean, they have only been here a few years right. That is false also......you are right for now, but give it a few more years. Don't look at the now, look in the future and if you don't see it, I feel sorry for you. They are multiplying faster than the educated are wanting to admit. I really don't care if we have wolves or not, but they are not endangered and should be treated as a coyote, shot on sight. Everything needs managed, including wolves.

As for deer and elk herds, it started long long ago. Fish and games mismanagement and money greed. Oh lets give more tags, oh lets have more cow hunts. First of all, when your herds are declining, you don't need cow and doe hunts. I don't cow and doe hunt at all and think it should be done away with unless you have a population problem. HMMMM, maybe it was a bad winter a few years ago:D. Ya right, we have not had a bad winter since 94. Also, close some units that are bad for a year or two, put point restrictions on deer and elk.

Not to mention not being able to run cougars with dogs. I understand that is a state law and was voted in by the educated liberals that want to pet them, "wish they would" but fish and game could of countered this law by putting out a bounty or giving a tag when you bought a license. For chit sakes, give some incentive to hunt them. For chit sakes, DO something besides giving yourself a raise. If they cared about their elk and deer numbers like they care about these wolves, Oregon would be fantastic.

Another thing, hypothetically, if a person was to sneek onto a farmers field and butcher a cow, eat some right there and leave the rest to spoil, would F&G be there to protect them or would they get in trouble. Maybe they would spend thousands on rehab and study their behavior. Maybe they would get a collar to see where they go. Maybe the Rancher would just put one there @ss!!
 
Why would ODFW be happy about wolves coming into Oregon and wreaking havoc on the elk herds,when this is major source of revenue for them?

The fact is that wolves are in Oregon and they're likely here to stay. If you were smart you'd pray that they get delisted ASAP because it's only then that the state agency can manage it as a game species. Until then, you're stuck with the management strategies of the US Fish and Wildlife Service and they could really aren't concerned with a decline of elk and deer herds. I'm sure ODFW was thrilled with the Columbian whitetail coming off the list because this means new opportunity and more revenue. Much the same way that IDFG and MFWP were thrilled with wolves going to state management. Tons of tags sold and increased revenue for them.

I am smart enough to know that managing for healthy game populations is not as easy as killing off every lion, wolf and coyote.
 
I believe in managing ALL wildlife. I dont have an issue with wolves being here at all...But when they impact the game animals so much (like cougars have done) this State is in Trouble!

Oregon needs to shut some units down for deer hunting, due to predation. NOT BAD WEATHER OR LOSS OF HABITAT like they try to teach students in school. Its too many Bears and cougars AND too many tags given out! If there was a major deer problem, ODFW should decrease tags BIG time or shut that unit down for a cpl of years. This has been a major problem for years....ODFW is just now addressing this issue. But look at the tag numbers set for this fall....its a joke!

I was going to try and go to the Commision meeting last week, but due to Graduations and my childrens activities, I was unable to go.

We need a new direction from ODFW. It is run as a political agenda, not as a true wildlife management tool. Their hands are bound from higher ups than them.....so dont blame local ODFW, blame the politicians running ODFW!
 
I agree with everything you said BMA.

I too think that closing units are a good idea. Too many people think that if it's closed it'll never be open again, but Utah has done it and it brought back deer numbers and trophy quality.

I think more people need to get involved with NGO's like MDF, RMEF and also get active with County Boards of Supervisors, County Fish and Game Commissions. This is the way to be heard and be part of the solution.

Railing on a state game agency and everyone with a degree on a website might help you feel better and you'll certainly get a bunch of "atta boys", but it's not going to solve the problem.

Hammnit
 
What in the hell does being "smart and pray" going to do about it. I hope they do get delisted SOON. With ODFW at full control, there is no way they will survive. It also won't be a federal offense to umm well nevermind.:eek:
 
Don't worry guys. As soon as blacktail slayer and Odfw get complete control of the wolf population they will manage them like our mule deer and we won't have any left ;). I can't wait to see a pack! I will get to put my new 44mag to the test. I live in communist Eugene and I get to hear all the crazy ideas they have over here. Everytime I drive through downtown I just think about how delicious spotted owl eggs are! I say kill them all. There is a reason our ancestors eradicated them!


"Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!"
 
Sorry guys but I have been checking and posting threads on about a dozen hunting websites. I find some of the things posted here on Monster Muleys very funny. Some people are so far from the truth and they wonder why ODFW, the F&W Commission, House & Senate Natural Resource Committee, and such will not listen to them. I think some of you need to spend some time with and talk to the people within these groups and maybe a little time on ifish-dot-net. People on ifish know way more what is going on than here on Monster Muleys. I think it is time a lot of you catch up with what is going on and how things happen. Complaining here on MM will get you no where. Too bad I didn't see any of you at the F&W Commission meeting. I was there and spoke 2 different times. I have shown up to Salem to speak in front of the Natural Resource Committee a few times and ODFW meetings as well. Those meetings and hearings is where you get things to happen and not here on MM. Good luck with all your complaining.
 
i cant stand "i-fish" and it makes sence that you like it. it's full of a bunch of vally livin, tree hugging liberals. no ##### they agree with you more, you guys dont live over here and your 2 times a year trips over to the eastside gives you zero information. but you take that information and try to change they way we live. THIS IS WHY I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE TO LIVE ON THE EASTSIDE OF THE STATE BEFORE YOU HAD ANY SAY WHATSOEVER ON WHAT GOES ON WITH THE MANAGEMENT HERE!

what blows my mind about this liberal friekin state is: 2 guys could be applying for a job to help "manage oregons game" guy #1 could spend 4 yrs in a row living in the woods with the elk/deer/wolves/moose. guy#2 could spend 2 yrs sitting in a classroom learning things that have nothing to do with game management.
guy #2 would get the job everytime. and that is why a game manegment sucks donky balz. to many "certified liberals" have something to say when they know not what they speak. ( that almost sounded like a quote from the bible;))


o.k. rant over. i'll still just try and gut shoot any of the big coyotes i happen upon:)
 
KB...you are too funny! I too dont like i-fish. Hey guys...count how many time BS says "I".....

BS....why do you try to impress everyone on here with your comments, if we are all "ignorant"?

However, glad you went to those meetings...I went to to Regional ones here and spoke to the Director. But, since you are all about "scientific only" theory, I doubt you ruffled anyones feathers at the meetings....you just went right along with their ideas.

Since you live with all those others tree hugging-"scientific" politicians, its no wonder you can drive an hour or so to go to the meetings. Oregon is basically 2 states.....but all run by people like you, over there by you, that know NOTHING about the eastside!

THIS SHOULD BE ALL ABOUT THE ANIMALS BEING MANAGED, NOT A PERSONAL AGENDA. YOUR AGENDA IS TO GARNISH ATTENTION TO YOURSELF, SHOW EVERYONE YOUR KNOWLEDGE SO WHEN YOU GET OUT OF SCHOOL YOU CAN BE A BIG SHOT IN WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT.

Maybe I am wrong.....but thats what has been emailed to me, about BS. Dont matter to me.....all I know is SOMETHING dramatic has to be done in Oregon! NOW!

AGAIN....look at the deer tags set for this year....case in point! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
You know BS you can just stay on Ifish. If you dont like what people say on MM than its pretty simple DONT LOOK
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-10 AT 12:47PM (MST)[p]>You know BS you can just
>stay on Ifish. If
>you dont like what people
>say on MM than its
>pretty simple DONT LOOK

Well I guess the same could be said for KBKILLER. Why do you still go over to ifish and post KBKILLER? You must like it over there. There are also a lot of eastside people on ifish as well. So I guess you can't say people on ifish don't know what they are talking about when it comes to the eastside. I have also lived over there for seasonal work that was all field work and zero office work. I've had my time living, working, and hunting the eastside.
 
>Well Geezus, why does that
>not surprise me. Just
>what this state needs is
>more book smart people trying
>to manage the game.
>Too bad it doesn't take
>a common sense degree to
>manage game. I know
>lots of people including myself
>that would love to have
>the job.


Who is stopping you or the people you know from getting a job with a wildlife agency?
 
>You know BS you can just
>stay on Ifish. If
>you dont like what people
>say on MM than its
>pretty simple DONT LOOK


I never said I don't like what people say here, but find some things funny. Why have you taken the time to read my posts and respond to them? No one said you or anyone else has to read or respond to my posts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-10 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]BMA,

I figured you would like to visit ifish since it is the largest Oregon hunting website and you would be able to get your name and business out to more of the public. You don't turn down money and customers from the westside do you? Do you turn done money and customers from other states that live in areas similar to western Oregon? I don't think you dislike the westside as much as you say.
 
>o.k. rant over. i'll still just
>try and gut shoot any
>of the big coyotes i
>happen upon:)

I hope we don't read about you in the paper one day about going to jail. Good luck with that.
 
BS...I book clients from all over the Country. They dont tell me how to manage wildlife. I am talking the majority of how this State is run, is from the westside. From ODFW, OSP ODOT....I have nothing against folks that live over there, its the majority ideology I dont like. I checked out ifish before, but its not much to my liking. I dont have time to post on several sites.

To make this clear....I am not against ANYONE that lives over by you....I am against the ideology that is predominately from the west side. Am I right Chris? I like you....i think! lol}>
 
BMA,

I think most if not all hunters here on the westside hate Portland, Salem, and Eugene voting for everything in this state. Not only do we here on the westside have to live with the consequences of their votes, but we also have to live and see those people every day. I can't even count how many times I have tried talking to those people about wildlife management and especially predator management. I think they are just as crazy as all of you on the eastside. I would rather live on the eastside and have the state split in two, but I don't think that will happen.

I just so happen to grow up here on the westside and have been attending OSU except for the 3 years I was in the Army. My wife grew up here in the country as well and has family over here. We are not one of those tree huggers that the eastside folks like to call all of us. Country rednecks with a little college education is more like it. Not sure where we will move after I finish school and find a job. I plan on going where work is.

I will mention your business over on ifish if I hear about anyone looking for a guided hunt on the eastside. I hope you get booked solid this season. Good luck with your scouting.
 
>You know BS you can just
>stay on Ifish. If
>you dont like what people
>say on MM than its
>pretty simple DONT LOOK

"Well I guess the same could be said for KBKILLER. Why do you still go over to ifish and post KBKILLER? You must like it over there. There are also a lot of eastside people on ifish as well. So I guess you can't say people on ifish don't know what they are talking about when it comes to the eastside. I have also lived over there for seasonal work that was all field work and zero office work. I've had my time living, working, and hunting the eastside."

your right i do post over there, and to say how well i do around a bunch of liberals, i've been "repromanded" for a month at a time on a couple occations.
i say the same things i say on this sight, but a "shoot, shovel, and shutup" comment is a redflag there. "they send you a message saying "we here at "i-fish" dont condem post that speak of illegal activity,please re-read your agreement before you can post again"
what a bunch of pantywaist "I-HUGGERS":) hell, i'll probably get repromanded on there for this:)
i dont care about your "seasonal field work" at all really. your "westside" voting is what has started this state in a downfall. if it was left up to the "dummies" from the east side, we would still be hunting cats with dogs(which hunters would pay to do) instead of PAYING people to come in and do it because the cats are so bad. thats what all those yrs of schooling teach are managment team. good god, can people be that ignorant?

as long as the majority of the people who are trying to save the wolves do "seasonal" work,chances are they would never know about a SSS. you see, thats what people can do when they are not here just "seasonal"

IT'S PRETTY BAD WHEN IT'S BETTER TO BE "POLITICALLY CORRECT", THEN TO JUST BE CORRECT.
 
BS, sounds logical. I could not live around ignorant tree hugger/animal activists. I love living in the country, but good jobs are rare and thats why I started this business several years ago. Outfitting/guiding is a tough business right now, but it will all turn around.

EVERYONE on here and other sites....lets just ALL remember we should be working together and all our opinions are just that....opinions. I voice mine alot, but I know I am not always right. I just like to hear everyones ideas and opinion.

BS...You seem like a nice guy, but word to the wise....dont throw your schooling and book smarts to be a matter of fact on these sights....you will get shot down. Be open minded about issues. Kinda like wolves.....I dont mind them being here, but we have to be able to manage them locally, or we wont have much game to hunt and our children to hunt. This country was founded on this principle...keep it going!
I like to hear your ideas, but dont always agree. :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-10 AT 04:09PM (MST)[p]KBKILLER,

I would have to disagree with our schools teaching or wanting things like the dog and bait banning. I have taken a Big Game Management class at OSU (now called Mammal Conservation) and that class talked about how ballot voting and those outcomes are terrible wildlife management. OSU is not about political or ballot voting wildlife management. The one thing that I have seen from some students there is they come to college with all those environmental and animal rights crap already in their brain. It is not the colleges teaching it. We can thank the media, animal rights groups, parents, and such for teaching the youth before they even get to college and start taking wildlife classes. I think some of those students change their minds after learning the truth at college, but some have been brainwashed their whole lives before even getting to college it is hard to change them. So it is not the schools fault or the ones teaching this young adults the poor wildlife management strategies.

It is funny you think I'm trying to save the wolves. I'm all for management and a hunting season on them. I'm just not about breaking the law. Is that bad?
 
Holy chit, did this thread blow up while I was gone fishing. Yes Bob, we can still be friends even though I live close enough to Eugene I can smell the b.o., but still far enough away to dodge it.

KB, you said a lot, and I say F'n DITTO. LMFAO

BS, I don't even know where to start:D I do agree with a very small portion of your "lecture" but I think your doctor may have fumbled the snap when you were born:D Oh don't take it so personal, we are all just having fun and venting about stupidity that runs this state. Good ol' politics.

Also, what process is it to get hired by ODFStupid? KB pretty much hit the nail on the head with guy #1 vs. guy #2. Guy #1 would get hired if the dumb@ss responsible for hiring had common sense. I guess it would also come down to who you blknow;-) have fun with that. If and when you do become the bigshot, how would you manage the wolves? The deer? The elk? Just curious?
 
The example of guy #1 vs. guy #2 is not true. Yes you have to have a degree, but you also have to have field experience. All ODFW applications are on the internet and they will not except anything other than people applying online. The online applications go through pages of questions about just about everything you can think of about field work, how many years experience you have with it, who you worked with, and so on. If you don't have the experience then I would assume you can expect to not get an interview from the Department for a permanent job. Most jobs no matter what field are requiring new workers to have some type of degree or college certificate. I hear all the time about even the old timers having to go take a few college classes because their boss makes them. It is not just a F&W thing.

How I would manage wildlife would take more time and work than I have right now. I will try and get back to you on that one. It is not as simple as a one paragraph answer. A very simple basic answer would be to follow and work with other state agency biologist and the most up-to-date scientific research around the world to help our game in Oregon. I also spend a lot of time scouting and in the woods where I live. I would continue to do the same where ever I live and hear what people have to say on numerous hunting websites all over the internet. I recommend going over to ifish and reading some of my 2,300 posts over there to get a feel on how I would manage wildlife.
 
I am amazed by the depth of knowledge expressed in this and other threads on this website.
 
>The example of guy #1 vs.
>guy #2 is not true.
> Yes you have to
>have a degree, but you
>also have to have field
>experience. All ODFW applications
>are on the internet and
>they will not except anything
>other than people applying online.
> The online applications go
>through pages of questions about
>just about everything you can
>think of about field work,
>how many years experience you
>have with it, who you
>worked with, and so on.
> If you don't have
>the experience then I would
>assume you can expect to
>not get an interview from
>the Department for a permanent
>job. Most jobs no
>matter what field are requiring
>new workers to have some
>type of degree or college
>certificate. I hear all
>the time about even the
>old timers having to go
>take a few college classes
>because their boss makes them.
> It is not just
>a F&W thing.
>
>How I would manage wildlife would
>take more time and work
>than I have right now.
> I will try and
>get back to you on
>that one. It is
>not as simple as a
>one paragraph answer. A
>very simple basic answer would
>be to follow and work
>with other state agency biologist
>and the most up-to-date scientific
>research around the world to
>help our game in Oregon.
>I also spend a lot
>of time scouting and in
>the woods where I live.
> I would continue to
>do the same where ever
>I live and hear what
>people have to say on
>numerous hunting websites all over
>the internet. I recommend
>going over to ifish and
>reading some of my 2,300
>posts over there to get
>a feel on how I
>would manage wildlife.


HAH, of those 2300 post, 2280 of them are nothing more than a "link" with absolutly no explanation.

and back to the "I-HUGGER" site, right now the most popular post is if people really believe in frieking bigfoot, are you f-ing serious? they are argueing if "BIGFOOT" really exists?? AND THE MAJORITY IS IN FIRM OPINION HE DOES!!!


AND THATS THE SITE EVERYONE SHOULD CHECK OUT?? why dont you ask everyone to join friekin peta??


and as long as you have your "degree" you and the group of guys that have this state in the "state" it is in can consider yourself "above average" and right before you all pat yourselves on the back, maybe you could check out are deer herds. a might' fine job well done by the "western liberals" that run this state.
 
I agree that the majority of west side votes seem to overpower common sense in a lot cases when it comes to game management decisions but why whine about it? After all this is a democratic nation and as such the majority rules. Unfortunately that's not helping our game herds especially when it comes to predator management. I understand not chasing bears with dogs but what I don't get it not being able to chase the cats with them. After all Oregon tax dollars pay government approved hunter's to do just that as seen in the Heppner, Ukiah and some other units. When the wolf population expands to a point that they encroach on the west slope of the cascades then you might see some of the city folk wake up. Again when the majority sees the damage you will see our wonderful decision makers at ODFW authorize whatever means practical for select government hunters to control the situation. Sad to me because like the cougar issue most hunters would pay to hunt the same way as they allow the govie hunters.

Yes, it's sad that 95% of the voters never have seen a live wolf and their only experience is some discovery/animal planet channel program that only show them in the wild playing with their pups. I have yet to see one show on the destruction they do on an unprotected herd of domesticated animals. No, I don't live in E.Oregon yet but I plan to some day.
 
BS, I assume you will disagree with this but the whole idea of having to have a degree to get a job is what is so wrong with this world. People are relying on "book smarts" to run this country rather than life knowledge and common sense. See where that has left us. As far as field experience, the ultimate field experience is packed in sleeping on the ground for weeks at a time with camp on your back. That is when and only when you will learn how animals behave. Not a lecture hall. That degree is BS.

Southpaw, 17 years ago I saw 2 wolves on the North Sister. They have been here longer than the "educated" tell you. "Whining" is all that is left to do. Unless someday these "educated" positions are put to a vote by previous year hunting license holders only. Going to all these meetings is a waste of time, sorry BS but at the end of the day, the "educated" will not listen to what is said. They see themselves at a level above the people of this state and just sit there and nod their head and don't absorb any of what is being said. It all starts at the top and that is where the change needs to begin.
 
Chris, I have a great idea.....lets both run for the Director of ODFW! lol.....uh wait, we dont have a biology degree. Bet he dont either. Be interesting why and how he is the director. SO far he is not directing anything that is good.

ODFW needs to be built up, from the ground up. We have a bunch of politicians running a wildlife management, that must not listen to the regional Biologists. The Comission may be the issue....I dont think it has anything to do with the field biologists.

But WE dont see ANYTHING changing in Oregon. Did you guys notice Kitzhaper or whatever his name is running for Gov again!?!!? If he gets back in there....we are ALL SOL!!
 
Hey...I just read John Kittzhaber IS running for 2010 governor!
He is sponsored and endorsed by the SIERRA CLUB......that tell you guys ANYTHING!?!?!?

LETS ALL MAKE SURE THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!
 
BMA,

I hear you about Kitzhaber. We don't need a re-run here in Oregon.

KBKILLER- Glad to see you are still posting over on ifish. You must really like it if you continue to post over there, but then come over here to MM and act like you don't like it. I even see you posting on my threads over there and bumping them up to the top of the forum so everyone can see them. Keep up the great work and posting on ifish.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10 AT 10:07AM (MST)[p]KBKILLER,

I'm surprised you know what the majority of the people think on the "Bigfoot" thread on ifish. I didn't even know that and have yet to look at that thread. You must really like ifish to read through that whole thread and know what the majority thinks. I think if people spend enough time on that site they would see the quality of information on there compared to all other hunting sites on the internet. That must be why you are always over there and reading and posting on threads. I'm sure you will be posting today or even as we speak. I bet you even spend more time on ifish than here on MM. Don't be afraid to come out and tell the guys the truth here on MM. It is nothing to be ashamed of.

Wow I see you have 434 posts over on ifish compared to only 61 over here on MM. You should hit 1,000 on ifish by the end of this summer with how much time and posting you do over there. You will probably even pass me by the end of the year. lol
 
god knows i dont like to speak my mind..................... right;)

what is odf&w's managment plan for bigfoots?
 
bull_n_rut,

I have to disagree with what you say about the higher ups not listening to the public. The F&W Commission heard what the public wanted for blaze orange and dropped options 4 & 5. A couple of the commissioners want to go with option 1 or 2 like the public asked for and a few other commissioners want more time to think about options 1-3. So they do listen a little. OHA and their members have worked and got their way with a lot of things with ODFW and wildlife management. Talk with people from that group or similar organizations.
 
>god knows i dont like to
>speak my mind.....................
>right;)
>
>what is odf&w's managment plan for
>bigfoots?


That is a thread on ifish that I will not take the time to read. I can not think of a single ODFW employee that thinks bigfoot is living in Oregon. Too many people and Tcams that would have had evidence long ago.
 
>So We are going to be
>wearing some kind of orange
>after all huh? That will
>suck.
>
>BS vs KB....coming up on PayPerView
>next....dont go away! lol


Hopefully we will not have to wear orange unless we want to. Keep sending emails to ODFW and the Commission. The decision will not happen until Oct.

Yep KB and I get into it once in a while. That is just how we show hunter love to each other. I don't have anything against him and glad to see him around on several different websites.
 
Solving the big game management problem is easy. Just fire all those with any type of degree or education.
 
>Solving the big game management problem
>is easy. Just fire
>all those with any type
>of degree or education.


So do you think the same for UT, MT, WY, AZ, NM, ID, and CO?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10 AT 11:50AM (MST)[p]Please note ---- sarcasm ---- applied liberally.

I've lurked on this site for years. I just commented on the view from the cheap seats.
 
I don't really care about what "options" they are trying to pass. Pass what they want cause I won't be wearing orange if it is required. If they would put more restrictions on who can hunt and point restrictions, we wouldn't have idiots running around with guns shooting at movement.

There is also a reason I am no longer a member to OHA. They are a yes man to ODFW and have no sack to stand up for anything they preach. Believe me, been there already and tried that. Biggest part of the problem is most, not all, of the members have no spine. Power is in the people but when you have no people you have no power. So, I give up, keep my honey holes to myself and hope they are still there when my son is old enough to start going and pass on the "real" knowledge about game. Not to mention I put more time and money to out of state hunts now cause in a short time it will be what is left to hunt.

I have posted before, how does the Director get appointed his job? How do all the people that make fish and game decisions get there job? Should be a public vote.
 
"So do you think the same
for UT, MT, WY, AZ,
NM, ID, and CO?"

Oh .... and you forgot NV, CA and WA !


Life is like riding bulls. You're never truly ready ..... it just gets to be your turn.
 
>I have posted before, how does
>the Director get appointed his
>job? How do all
>the people that make fish
>and game decisions get there
>job? Should be a
>public vote.

ODFW's director is appointed by the Governor, and serves at his/her discretion.

I ... for one ... don't want the public to vote on who get to be a wildlfie decision maker. If that we're to happen, hunting in Oregon would quickly go down the same path as the use of dogs for bears/cougars.

Life is like riding bulls. You're never truly ready ..... it just gets to be your turn.
 
Teeb, in earlier posts I talked about the voting. One, be a registered voter, and two, hold a hunting license from the previous year.

I had heard that the Director was appointed by the Governor but never had it confirmed. Come on Dudley.

Bob, us at the helm of ODFW? Too much sense. How do you have so much sense? You must not have a degree.:)Would be fun though. That is watching elk and deer herds flourish. Not to mention the trophy potential this state has, which leads to billions of dollars for communities when you have a trophy destination.
 
>Teeb, in earlier posts I talked
>about the voting. One,
>be a registered voter, and
>two, hold a hunting license
>from the previous year.

I apparently missed that part --- sorry, my bad. I don't claim to be a voting law expert, but I doubt that requirement would be legal. And even if it were, what would stop the antis from just buying a license each year? Would they do it? You bet -- they are organized.

Then again, if they did buy a license, wouldn't you and "Bob" have more money when you guys are running the game department (just kidding)
 
OHA has come out and tolk ODFW that they are 100% against any enforcement of blaze orange. There has been other things that OHA has stood up against ODFW and the Commission. Maybe they have changed since last time you were a member.
 
I believe in OHA, but like any other organizations....not EVERYONE will agree with everything they do or stand for.

If there was no type of organizations pro hunting....there would eventually be no hunting......just my .02
 
Teeb, (not kidding) that was the reason for having the license. More revenue. Isn't that ODFW's first priority? Sharp crowd, to an extent, was curious how long it would take for someone to post that:)

Bob, agreed that there needs to be pro hunting orgs. Just ones with a sack. Too many just want to go to local meetings to get away from the wives from what I seen.

BS, didn't renew my membership two months ago since your concerned. By the way, do you know if enough signatures were gathered for getting the cougar bill back on the ballot?
 
>BS, didn't renew my membership two
>months ago since your concerned.
> By the way, do
>you know if enough signatures
>were gathered for getting the
>cougar bill back on the
>ballot?


I haven't heard anything yet, but will try and find out. The signatures were to get the wording for a future ballot. Signatures can not be collected to get it on the 2012 ballot this early.
 
Hmmm, thought it was a race for this nov. ballot.

Another pondering thought, aren't the native wolves of the lower 48 a smaller breed, like coyote size, unlike the canadians they are letting in without there immigration papers on them? Just what I've heard, don't shoot the messenger:)
 
Thats what I have heard as well, but ODFW Wolf "biologist" I talked to about this denied this, and ALSO denied that elk move out of an area just cause there is a pack of wolves in the area.....lol, serious! That is what he TRIED to convice me of....
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10 AT 04:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10 AT 04:41?PM (MST)

>Thats what I have heard as
>well, but ODFW Wolf "biologist"
>I talked to about this
>denied this, and ALSO denied
>that elk move out of
>an area just cause there
>is a pack of wolves
>in the area.....lol, serious! That
>is what he TRIED to
>convice me of....

Elk will stay in an area where wolves are at. That has been seen numerous times while in the field and help with radio & GPS collars. I have seen it the summer working on wolf surveys in Oregon. The same can be said about ungulates over in Africa hanging out around African lions. Elk and wolves (ungulate & predator) in the U.S. is no different than an ungulate and predator in Africa.

I think I may have posted about wolf subspecies and genetics over here once. I know I did at least on ifish. Subspecies get changed and lumped together after better DNA testing becomes available. That is why the two wolf subspecies were lumped together and seen as one species by biologists and the courts. The same could probably be said about the 15(?) different subspecies of whitetails. I bet if current DNA testing is done today on all subspecies we would see biologist bring that number done to around only 7 subspecies of whitetails. The same could probably be said about bighorn sheep in Oregon (Rocky vs Cali).
 
>Elk will stay in an area
>where wolves are at.
>

As a former guide in The Frank, I can attest to this with plenty of anecdotal evidence. The wolves would move the elk around, but the elk were always still there.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10 AT 07:28PM (MST)[p]heck yea, the elk will stay. right to the very last one of them. proof is in every state with wolves. if they moved there would be an over population in other areas. nope they stay untill they are wiped out. tough critters them elk are, if only they had a chance. or wait, could it be it's the WOLVES THAT MOVE WHERE THE ELK ARE MAYBE?? end result is still the same so does it matter who went where?



filed work: we seen elk and wolves in the same area. hypothesis- wolves and elk get along great, almost as if they enjoy playing with each other



hunter info: we seen elk and wolves in the same area. HYPOTHESIS- wolves obviously follow the game much like mt. lions. they go where the feed is. the elk could move 20 miles, so will the wolves.

that will cost you $4500 on this symesters schooling. i'll pay back 50% if you just teach me to spell:)
 
Wow .... not much optimism. Someday --- when I become King I'll solve all the problems --- someday.
 
ya.....Elk may stay...kinda like cougars dont drive elk out....they eliminate them! All of my outfitter friends in Canada have told me....when Oregon gets wolves, and they are not managed strictly....Oregon eventually will have no more huntable elk, in the way we now know elk hunting. We already see what bears and cougars are doing....and that pales to what wolves can and WILL do.

BTW......DID YOU GUIDE FOR DECADES THERE? BECAUSE IF YOU ONLY GUIDED FOR A FEW YEARS....YOU NEVER SAW THE FULL EFFECT THE WOLVES ARE HAVING, WHEN THEY ARE NOT MANAGED.
 
>ya.....Elk may stay...kinda like cougars dont
>drive elk out....they eliminate them!
>All of my outfitter friends
>in Canada have told me....when
>Oregon gets wolves, and they
>are not managed strictly....Oregon eventually
>will have no more huntable
>elk, in the way we
>now know elk hunting. We
>already see what bears and
>cougars are doing....and that pales
>to what wolves can and
>WILL do.
>
>BTW......DID YOU GUIDE FOR DECADES THERE?
>BECAUSE IF YOU ONLY GUIDED
>FOR A FEW YEARS....YOU NEVER
>SAW THE FULL EFFECT THE
>WOLVES ARE HAVING, WHEN THEY
>ARE NOT MANAGED.

i'm assuming that is a question for WHOOPINSTICK?

if it was to me, i hope my total sarcasm was coming through:)
 
I think we can all agree that wolves are here to stay. The joke is on fish and game. I personally have seen wolves up to seventeen years ago IN OREGON. Yet the "educated" try to say that there is only one pair of breeding wolves? Seriously? Can they not swim the Snake? Are their ODFStupid employees at the bridges spaying and neutering them as they come through the toll? It is so damn ignorant and just shows their view towards the public. The breeding pair has pups and I assume they are hybrids and can't reproduce? Manage, manage, manage, wtf is so hard about it?
 
Better be careful Blacktail Slayer .....

You started 3 new threads today in the Oregon section of MM.
All 3 have links to wildlife related topics. Be careful --- You're lending some validity to KB's post #45 in this thread.


Life is like riding bulls. You're never truly ready ..... it just gets to be your turn.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]Time to buy 3 more f'n sets of collars then cause there are more than 4 breeding pairs. I guess there would have to be some "field work" to locate the pairs and make sure they are having doin it doggy style. Then they may have to take notes for a couple years, then spend the next couple of years writing a paper on it. Wow, when everyone else is pinching pennies and losing jobs in a bad economy, the government sure seems to keep on spending! Phew, I feel better!
 
>I think we can all agree
>that wolves are here to
>stay. The joke is
>on fish and game.
>I personally have seen wolves
>up to seventeen years ago
>IN OREGON. Yet the
>"educated" try to say that
>there is only one pair
>of breeding wolves? Seriously?
>Can they not swim the
>Snake? Are their ODFStupid
>employees at the bridges spaying
>and neutering them as they
>come through the toll?
>It is so damn ignorant
>and just shows their view
>towards the public. The
>breeding pair has pups and
>I assume they are hybrids
>and can't reproduce? Manage,
>manage, manage, wtf is so
>hard about it?

I too have seen wolves in OR well over a 15 years ago in the Silvies Unit and as many as 10 years ago in the Desolation Unit. I have fallen on the ground laughing at all these ODFE press releases which say (1) confirmed breeding pair. Most of the Biologest that have logged serious field time in the Blue Mountains can't deny that wolves have been there for a long time.

If the ODFW manages wolves as they have bears and cougars it won't be long before there will be an "incident" that will require thousands of our tax dollars to respond to. Need an example? Remember the (5) bears that had to be tracked down and killed in S.Oregon.
 
Oregon's wolf plan that calls for 4 breeding pairs on the eastside and 4 breeding pairs on the westside of a highway boundary. It is all in the wolf plan that the public has access to on ODFW's website. I highly suggest reading the first part of the plan and understand how and who put it together. The feds look over every states wolf plan and decides if it is acceptable or not. That is why WY never has had their plan passed by the feds and the feds are still in control of WY's wolves. All this info in on the internet and available to the public.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-07-10
>AT 10:47?PM (MST)
>
>Time to buy 3 more f'n
>sets of collars then cause
>there are more than 4
>breeding pairs. I guess
>there would have to be
>some "field work" to locate
>the pairs and make sure
>they are having doin it
>doggy style. Then they
>may have to take notes
>for a couple years, then
>spend the next couple of
>years writing a paper on
>it. Wow, when everyone
>else is pinching pennies and
>losing jobs in a bad
>economy, the government sure seems
>to keep on spending! Phew,
>I feel better!


Not even close, but good try.
 
>Oregon's wolf plan that calls for
>4 breeding pairs on the
>eastside and 4 breeding pairs
>on the westside of a
>highway boundary. It is
>all in the wolf plan
>that the public has access
>to on ODFW's website.
>I highly suggest reading the
>first part of the plan
>and understand how and who
>put it together. The
>feds look over every states
>wolf plan and decides if
>it is acceptable or not.
> That is why WY
>never has had their plan
>passed by the feds and
>the feds are still in
>control of WY's wolves.
>All this info in on
>the internet and available to
>the public.

BT - Not sure how familar you are with rural Wyoming but I'll just say this: They don't care about whether or not it's a federal plan or a state plan the big song dogs aren't singing when a rancher and his firearm catch them.
 
>BT - Not sure how familar
>you are with rural Wyoming
>but I'll just say this:
>They don't care about whether
>or not it's a federal
>plan or a state plan
>the big song dogs aren't
>singing when a rancher and
>his firearm catch them.

Yes, but some of those wolves have collars on from the feds or other states and may lead to their convictions. I would hate to be one of those ranchers shooting a federally protected species. Not sure how they plan on keeping their ranch spending all that money in court fees and trying to keep the jail time down. Not to mention it being on your record. I wonder if that would be a life time ban of hunting in the 32 states that have an agreement? Anyone know the answer to that?
 
Time to buy 3 more f'n
>sets of collars then cause
>there are more than 4
>breeding pairs. I guess
>there would have to be
>some "field work" to locate
>the pairs and make sure
>they are having doin it
>doggy style. Then they
>may have to take notes
>for a couple years, then
>spend the next couple of
>years writing a paper on
>it. Wow, when everyone
>else is pinching pennies and
>losing jobs in a bad
>economy, the government sure seems
>to keep on spending! Phew,
>I feel better!


>Not even close, but good try.


I figured I underestimated the cost and wasted time on these damn dogs. Thanks for the pat on the back BS
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-10 AT 02:02PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-10 AT 01:55?PM (MST)

I know what your saying but all they have to prove is that the predator was harassing or threatening livestock to be justified. I know you support the fish and game departments but your education and commentary on wildlife management is coming from a book not actual living experience. Both have equal value and to ignore the opinion of actual seasoned hunters is well... What the odfw has been doing for a long time. IMO the only reason for things like the Mule Deer and youth initiatives from our wildlife agency is because they have realized where their money comes from and also know that most seasoned Oregon hunters are fed up with the agency's lack of action or ability to effectively manage game. Our agency decison makers cower to popular vote rather than use common sense approaches to wildlife. Case in point - Snowflake the deer, countless hours talking about how to dress ( hunter orange), 6 meetings to discuss if we can keep 2 measly salmon a season. IMO every meeting held in Salem should have predator management on the agenda and that includes providing honest information about our wolf populations.
 
ORsouthpaw,

I'm all for ranchers getting paid for their loss in livestock and think DOW should for livestock lost to wolves whether they are listed or not. I heard DOW paid for Oregon's first livestock lost to wolves even though the wolves were not federally listed anymore. Hopefully the same will be said for these most recent ranchers.

Here are my thoughts on the Eagle Cap wolf pack. That pack for a while was coming into the Valley and eating off of the piles of dead livestock that some rancher had on their land. These were not from wolf predation and the livestock were already dead before the wolves ate what was left. I don't know for sure but wonder if the wolves gained a taste for livestock from this. These may be one small reason that the pack was not bothering elk around their den site and was coming all the way back down in the Valley and around private land to kill live cattle. Maybe the taste and easy kill without a threat of injury to the wolves made it a better choice for wolves to leave the elk alone where they are denning and travel to feed on livestock. Anyone have an idea on this one?
 
what information do you have that says the wolves left the elk alone? or i guess a better way to word it is -- what information are you lacking that says the wolves left the elk alone?
 
Geezus, there you go again BS. Do you think a wolf would leave a cow alone if he had never tasted one? Keep your nose in that book, its really working! :) Did you ever think that maybe there are enough wolves that now some of them are traveling to the low lands to find food. Just like cougars enclosing on the urban areas. They are a F'N carnivore, hello, mcfly. It don't matter, sheep, goat, cow, dog, cat, they are going to kill it, eat a little bit and let the rest rot. Maybe you should send the wolves an email to mix in a salad once in a why to keep their cholesterol down. As far as the Rancher, that wolf is trespassing and should be shot on sight. He is not native.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-10 AT 09:03PM (MST)[p]Why is it that everyone who has packed a gun in the woods thinks he knows precisely how to manage wildlife?

I use lumber, but I don't try to tell a logger how to cut trees. I drive a vehicle, and I know quite a bit about it, but I don't tell my mechanic how to fix it. I eat lots of beef, but I've never raised one.

My point is this. There's lots of opinions and suggestions on how things should be done. But until you've done the job, you have no real idea of all that goes in to making management decisions. It is a complex world, with many hoops to jump through, many battles to fight, and many masters to serve. Many times legal requirements dictate complexities to a seemingly simple process. And trying to get some sort or consensus or agreement with a mixture of interests and agendas is never easy.

It is interesting that we think the people we agree with have common sense. But have you noticed that those we disagree with don't have it. Hmmmm?

Discounting the knowlege, experience, and ability of another is shortsighted. One point being made here is that "BS" is a wildlife student - but does not have any real world experience. Therefore he doesn't really know a lot yet. Well, I don't know the man, but I'd guess that he is indeed a hunter with some experience. The same is likely true with most biologists currently working in the field. I'd best most of them hunt, and have considerable experience in the woods.

Another point being made is that politics should not be a factor involved in the decision making process. Well, that might be good, but it is not realistic. Anybody with an interest, a bit of support, and a lawyer can become involved, like it or not. Politics is, and always will be involved in the process. We just have to try to work within the system. I don't like it any more that most of you ..... but it is reality.

Ever heard "Walk a mile in my shoes". Well it's true. We all need to get involved, be part of the process, and part of the solution. It's the only way for change to occur.
 
>If you came across a wolf,
>and it was coming at
>you, and you shot it,
>is that legal?

Oh ..... and to answer the original question .....

If it's a choice between me or the wolf that lives, I choose me! And I'll be alive to live with the consequences.

Muleyman - No one can make this decision for you. What you do is up to you.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-10
>AT 09:03?PM (MST)
>
>Why is it that everyone who
>has packed a gun in
>the woods thinks he knows
>precisely how to manage wildlife?
>
>
>I use lumber, but I don't
>try to tell a logger
>how to cut trees.
>I drive a vehicle, and
>I know quite a bit
>about it, but I don't
>tell my mechanic how to
>fix it. I eat
>lots of beef, but I've
>never raised one.
>
>My point is this. There's
>lots of opinions and suggestions
>on how things should be
>done. But until you've
>done the job, you have
>no real idea of all
>that goes in to making
>management decisions. It is
>a complex world, with many
>hoops to jump through, many
>battles to fight, and many
>masters to serve. Many
>times legal requirements dictate complexities
>to a seemingly simple process.
> And trying to get
>some sort or consensus or
>agreement with a mixture of
>interests and agendas is never
>easy.
>
>It is interesting that we think
>the people we agree with
>have common sense. But
>have you noticed that those
>we disagree with don't
>have it. Hmmmm?
>
>Discounting the knowlege, experience, and ability
>of another is shortsighted.
>One point being made here
>is that "BS" is a
>wildlife student - but does
>not have any real world
>experience. Therefore he doesn't
>really know a lot yet.
> Well, I don't know
>the man, but I'd guess
>that he is indeed a
>hunter with some experience.
>The same is likely true
>with most biologists currently working
>in the field. I'd
>best most of them hunt,
>and have considerable experience in
>the woods.
>
>Another point being made is that
>politics should not be a
>factor involved in the decision
>making process. Well, that
>might be good, but it
>is not realistic. Anybody
>with an interest, a bit
>of support, and a lawyer
>can become involved, like it
>or not. Politics is, and
>always will be involved in
>the process. We just have
>to try to work within
>the system. I don't
>like it any more that
>most of you ..... but
>it is reality.
>
>Ever heard "Walk a mile in
>my shoes". Well it's
>true. We all need
>to get involved, be part
>of the process, and part
>of the solution. It's
>the only way for change
>to occur.


the only minor difference i see in your statement and are wildlife management is:
1st: a logger will get the dam trees on the ground, cause that is his job.

2nd: a mechanic will fix the dam car, cause that is his job

if either of these were to fail to perform their duties, they'ed be out of work.

obviously not the case in are game management system is it?

i was just told on this forum today: that a whole pack of wolves left all the elk alone and traveled great distances to feed on farm raised animals because the farmer originally left dead animals on his property, which in turn, gave the wolf "an aquired taste" for farm raised animals, thus making them leave all wildlife alone.

AND THEN YOU ASK ME WHY I DISCREDIT THE INFORMATION THAT THEY HAVE LEARNED IN SCHOOL AND NOT IN THE WOODS?

job requirements are based on number of yrs in school vs. number of yrs of accual experiance with the animals were trying to manage, and thats O.K.?

we pay people to come in and run lions with dogs once ODF&W decide they're over populated instead of getting paid to have hunters hunt them.

And i should think they are doing a better job than i could do?

they just raised tag numbers in a ton of units for deer. when we are WAY below management objective.

and you think i should walk a mile in their shoes?



how about it's time to pull are liberal heads out of are democratic asses.

this state needs an overhaul, and the people that are in charge need to be held acountable. it's kinda like a job in NFL football. if your not winning, your looking for a new job.



all this is coming from the same guy that is the first to say that if you hunt hard , you can still have some "decent" hunting in this state.
but i dam sure aint going to pat them on the back and say " good job, i dont know what the hell your trying to do, but i'm sure it's better than i could ever think of doing"
 
Teeb,
You make way too much sense to take part in this argument.

Please dispense your wisdom somewhere else....
Sincerely,
Hammnit
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-08-10 AT 10:04PM (MST)[p]>Teeb,
>You make way too much sense to take part in this argument.
>Please dispense your wisdom somewhere else....
>
>Sincerely, Hammnit


Please forgive me. I'm just a newbie. I should know my place. I should keep my mouth shut until I gain more MM experience.
 
GPS collars on a few wolves in that pack would have shown an elk kill and I don't think the elk would be hanging out around the den site if the wolves were harassing them all the time. Have none of you ever seen ungulates hang around a pack of lions in Africa before? Do you not think the same thing can happen with elk and wolves? Why would it be any different?
 

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