WYOMING MOOSE
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BuzzH
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I would start applying in Wyoming if I were you.
If you look at the point pools, lots of people apply for a year or three and then give up.
Also, many of the people in the 14+ range of points ONLY apply for the top couple units. Meaning that those in the lower point pools are drawing quite a number of preference tags. Also, many people make some smart moves like applying for a cow tag with 19 points. Lots of people drop out every year for a lot of reasons...loss of jobs, other priorities, drawing in another state, etc.
Applying smartly and not having to hunt the Bighorns or Snowy Range, I think you could potentially draw a tag when you have 10-12 points in the preference draw.
Things that are going to factor into that is how the moose populations do in the future...if they don't do as well, you may have to wait longer, if they do better, you might draw even sooner.
A buddy of mine had the Wyoming moose regs from the 80's...they issued about 3x as many tags then as they do now.
I would expect tag levels to stay stable over the next 10 years or maybe even increase based on the research I'm seeing, population trends, and talking with bio's.
I drew this year and I fully expect to draw another moose tag in Wyoming before I'm too old to hunt.
If you look at the point pools, lots of people apply for a year or three and then give up.
Also, many of the people in the 14+ range of points ONLY apply for the top couple units. Meaning that those in the lower point pools are drawing quite a number of preference tags. Also, many people make some smart moves like applying for a cow tag with 19 points. Lots of people drop out every year for a lot of reasons...loss of jobs, other priorities, drawing in another state, etc.
Applying smartly and not having to hunt the Bighorns or Snowy Range, I think you could potentially draw a tag when you have 10-12 points in the preference draw.
Things that are going to factor into that is how the moose populations do in the future...if they don't do as well, you may have to wait longer, if they do better, you might draw even sooner.
A buddy of mine had the Wyoming moose regs from the 80's...they issued about 3x as many tags then as they do now.
I would expect tag levels to stay stable over the next 10 years or maybe even increase based on the research I'm seeing, population trends, and talking with bio's.
I drew this year and I fully expect to draw another moose tag in Wyoming before I'm too old to hunt.
Thanks guys I think i'll give it shot. Congradulations on the tag Buzz!! I'll be keeping an eye out for your post hunt pics. Easyelk how does Montanas system work, can you just buy a point like Wyoming or do you have to apply for a tag during the draw? Im a Nevada resident so no chance at a resident tag probably going to put in for as many states as i can in hopes of one day drawing at least one.
BuzzH
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Montana has a squared bonus point system, same as NV. You cant just apply for points (yet). I believe that starting next year you will be able to. Montana costs a bit over $70 for application fees including a point, plus you have to get a conservation license.
I drew a moose permit in Montana when I was a resident there.
I still think your best bet long term is Wyoming. In the short run applying anywhere you have a chance at a tag in a random type draw is worth it. For a chance at a random tag its tough to beat Idaho...
I drew a moose permit in Montana when I was a resident there.
I still think your best bet long term is Wyoming. In the short run applying anywhere you have a chance at a tag in a random type draw is worth it. For a chance at a random tag its tough to beat Idaho...
Zeke
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Don't just buy a point in Wyoming. Save-up the money, set it aside and use it to apply every single year in an area that gives random tags. Keep that money set aside for moose and moose only (not new tires for the truck). Then when you have enough points, you can draw in a "lesser" moose unit.... unless you've already drawn-out with a random tag.
Buying points never will get you a moose tag!
Yes, you should apply in Wyoming! IMHO
Years ago, I had guys tell me I'd never have enough points for moose or sheep. They were wrong! I drew a moose tag last year and drew a sheep tag this year! Lucky? yes but I didn't get lucky by buying a point every year.
Zeke
Buying points never will get you a moose tag!
Yes, you should apply in Wyoming! IMHO
Years ago, I had guys tell me I'd never have enough points for moose or sheep. They were wrong! I drew a moose tag last year and drew a sheep tag this year! Lucky? yes but I didn't get lucky by buying a point every year.
Zeke
Bill_in_MI
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 09:59AM (MST)[p]Frankly, I cannot believe most of the above recommendations.
"Buying points never will get you a moose tag!" Very true.
I'm 1 below the major cutoff now with 13 points.
If you analyze the data, point creep alone will keep you from catching up for at LEAST 20 years. There are simply not enough NR moose permits being allocated any more to clear out those upper point pools.
Although the very top of the point pools seem to be holding out for the top 2 units, you now are seeing the people 2 or 3 points behind (and lower) dispersing and 'settling' for a 2nd tier unit. This reality has caused a jump in the avg points necessary to draw even a historical 3rd tier unit.
In both 2014 and 2015, there were only 8 random bull tags to be had per year.
IMO you are 13-15 years behind STARTING the game and given the cost to play in WY, you are better off saving your money and booking a Canadian moose hunt with a reputable outfitter.
"Buying points never will get you a moose tag!" Very true.
I'm 1 below the major cutoff now with 13 points.
If you analyze the data, point creep alone will keep you from catching up for at LEAST 20 years. There are simply not enough NR moose permits being allocated any more to clear out those upper point pools.
Although the very top of the point pools seem to be holding out for the top 2 units, you now are seeing the people 2 or 3 points behind (and lower) dispersing and 'settling' for a 2nd tier unit. This reality has caused a jump in the avg points necessary to draw even a historical 3rd tier unit.
In both 2014 and 2015, there were only 8 random bull tags to be had per year.
IMO you are 13-15 years behind STARTING the game and given the cost to play in WY, you are better off saving your money and booking a Canadian moose hunt with a reputable outfitter.
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 11:52?AM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 11:50?AM (MST)
The more people that drop into 2nd tier units, the better for those with less points.
There were NR tags drawn in the PP pool with 13 points...7 points under max.
More telling to me is that the most points it took a NR to draw was 18, 2 points under max. Not sure how a conclusion is drawn that the top point pools are NOT clearing when 18 points is drawing the best tags in the State????
If I were a NR, I would start building points...the naysayers are wrong.
LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 11:50?AM (MST)
The more people that drop into 2nd tier units, the better for those with less points.
There were NR tags drawn in the PP pool with 13 points...7 points under max.
More telling to me is that the most points it took a NR to draw was 18, 2 points under max. Not sure how a conclusion is drawn that the top point pools are NOT clearing when 18 points is drawing the best tags in the State????
If I were a NR, I would start building points...the naysayers are wrong.
Zeke
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Bill, so who cares if it takes 20 years? (unless you're my age and if you are, you should have been playing the application game a whole lot longer)
Even if the tags distribution went back to totally random a guy would have to be really lucky to pop a tag in anything less than 20 years. Some tags take time and some will never be obtained.
With that said, some guys just don't get it! let me spell it out to everyone again: THERE ARE TAGS OUT THERE THAT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE BECAUSE DEMAND OUT-STRIPS SUPPLY REGARDLESS OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM! BUT, a guy should apply every chance he gets and quit just buying points.
I want a Montana bighorn tag but no matter how hard I stomp my feet and whine about the system, it's probably never going to happen.
Sure, he should APPLY because lots of guys older than him will begin to drop from the system.
Zeke
Even if the tags distribution went back to totally random a guy would have to be really lucky to pop a tag in anything less than 20 years. Some tags take time and some will never be obtained.
With that said, some guys just don't get it! let me spell it out to everyone again: THERE ARE TAGS OUT THERE THAT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE BECAUSE DEMAND OUT-STRIPS SUPPLY REGARDLESS OF THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM! BUT, a guy should apply every chance he gets and quit just buying points.
I want a Montana bighorn tag but no matter how hard I stomp my feet and whine about the system, it's probably never going to happen.
Sure, he should APPLY because lots of guys older than him will begin to drop from the system.
Zeke
New applicants are so far behind the curve that there is no chance I would spend $75 a year for 20+ years on the hope that I would draw a Wyoming moose tag. Who knows what permit numbers will be in 20+ years. Who knows how much a permit or point will cost 20+ years down the line. My wager is a moose tag will cost a lot more cash and there will be less tags, especially when Wyoming goes to a 90/10 split.
Bill_in_MI
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 01:27PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 01:25?PM (MST)
Buzz, the issue isn't the very top pools, its the heavily filled point pools starting at 15 points and lower. These are the people that are dispersing and pulling tags instead of holding out for the top 2 units.
If you simply look at the NR point pool totals for people with 9-15, there are 4068 hunters in line...
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/TOTAL_PREF_POINTS_MS_140006261.pdf
1) There were only 61 bull permits given to NR pref point holders this year.
4068 hunters with 9 points to 15 points competing for 61 pref tags per year with an extra 8 permits given out in the random draw...simple math equates to 58 years to fully clear out those pools (and that doesn't include the guys with more points than 15...)
Now, 1) there will be attrition through people who give up or die, 2) there will be many years of equal or less total moose permits given out as the entire West seems to be at a loss of how to bring back the moose, 3) State game agencies will no doubt come under additional pressure to further limit NR tag allocations...
This doesn't mean to say you can't draw a permit since you cannot predict how many people will stack up in certain units in certain years or what trends will develop. But, the person who asks is it WORTH getting in on the ground floor at near middle age should know the truth of the matter...
Buzz, the issue isn't the very top pools, its the heavily filled point pools starting at 15 points and lower. These are the people that are dispersing and pulling tags instead of holding out for the top 2 units.
If you simply look at the NR point pool totals for people with 9-15, there are 4068 hunters in line...
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/TOTAL_PREF_POINTS_MS_140006261.pdf
1) There were only 61 bull permits given to NR pref point holders this year.
4068 hunters with 9 points to 15 points competing for 61 pref tags per year with an extra 8 permits given out in the random draw...simple math equates to 58 years to fully clear out those pools (and that doesn't include the guys with more points than 15...)
Now, 1) there will be attrition through people who give up or die, 2) there will be many years of equal or less total moose permits given out as the entire West seems to be at a loss of how to bring back the moose, 3) State game agencies will no doubt come under additional pressure to further limit NR tag allocations...
This doesn't mean to say you can't draw a permit since you cannot predict how many people will stack up in certain units in certain years or what trends will develop. But, the person who asks is it WORTH getting in on the ground floor at near middle age should know the truth of the matter...
Zeke
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By the way: I have 5 adult kids who are applying and building points in Wyoming for sheep and moose (along with other critters). Some have a pile of points, some have drawn already, some have very few but they'll all have some great tags long before they're my age!
Zeke
Zeke
Bill_in_MI
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Zeke,
The difference between now and 14 or so years ago, is that THEN we were applying for WY with a near guaranteed WHEN you would realistically draw. There WAS an endgame.
NOW, it is simply a lottery for those guys with 8 or less points with NO GUARENTEE of ever drawing.
This is the summary of my point. What was a sure thing that involved planned out strategy is now a statistical improbability.
The difference between now and 14 or so years ago, is that THEN we were applying for WY with a near guaranteed WHEN you would realistically draw. There WAS an endgame.
NOW, it is simply a lottery for those guys with 8 or less points with NO GUARENTEE of ever drawing.
This is the summary of my point. What was a sure thing that involved planned out strategy is now a statistical improbability.
Bill_in_MI
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Lastly, the question was
" My question is at age 37 with 0 points will i ever gain enough non res WY points to draw"
The answer is probably no...
" My question is at age 37 with 0 points will i ever gain enough non res WY points to draw"
The answer is probably no...
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]I think you're wrong...do you know how many NR's actually applied for a moose permit in Wyoming?
I do...1,714...out of nearly 10K that had points.
Some things to consider is that:
1. Some of those people applied for cow tags.
2. Unit 38 had 563 of the total applicants, units 26 had 271 applicants, and 25 had 151.
Meaning that there are roughly only 729 people actually applying for moose tags in the remaining areas. Pretty obvious that there are lots of point hoarders out there. Less than 10% of applicants with points are even applying for a tag. I'm liking those odds more and more.
With that data, there is no way that anyone can "guess" how many points its going to take in 10-15 years to draw moose tags. There's already a separation of 13-20 points required to draw a tag...what will that separation look like in another 10-15 years??? Hard telling not knowing, but I bet there will be 10-12 preference point separations between the easiest to hardest to draw tags...minimum.
Plus, with all the math wizards out there, many will give up or not even start applying...only further increasing the draw odds of those that start now.
When I started seriously applying in many states, I was already 4-5 years behind the curve. I drew a moose permit here this year, and there's a few areas where I'm assured a sheep permit. If I would have listened to guys like you, I never would have even started applying for moose or sheep.
I like my odds of saying that an applicant just starting now, is probably in a good spot if they stay the course and have 10-20 years to apply (smartly).
Another thing to consider when applying or building points, is that the systems routinely change. Montana for example, went from a 1 point per year to a squared bonus point system. Having one guy with 1 point VS. someone that has 5 isn't that big of a difference. Having only 1 point versus the guy that has now been applying for 5 years in a squared bonus point situation, is now 25-1 favorite over the first time applicant.
Would you rather be the guy with 25 tickets in the barrel or 1?
To the OP, don't listen to the nay-sayers, take it from someone that has applied in a lot of states for along time. The only way to win is to play...and having points isn't going to do anything but help your odds, in particular long term.
I've drawn quite a number of good permits by staying the course, including 2 shiras bull permits.
I do...1,714...out of nearly 10K that had points.
Some things to consider is that:
1. Some of those people applied for cow tags.
2. Unit 38 had 563 of the total applicants, units 26 had 271 applicants, and 25 had 151.
Meaning that there are roughly only 729 people actually applying for moose tags in the remaining areas. Pretty obvious that there are lots of point hoarders out there. Less than 10% of applicants with points are even applying for a tag. I'm liking those odds more and more.
With that data, there is no way that anyone can "guess" how many points its going to take in 10-15 years to draw moose tags. There's already a separation of 13-20 points required to draw a tag...what will that separation look like in another 10-15 years??? Hard telling not knowing, but I bet there will be 10-12 preference point separations between the easiest to hardest to draw tags...minimum.
Plus, with all the math wizards out there, many will give up or not even start applying...only further increasing the draw odds of those that start now.
When I started seriously applying in many states, I was already 4-5 years behind the curve. I drew a moose permit here this year, and there's a few areas where I'm assured a sheep permit. If I would have listened to guys like you, I never would have even started applying for moose or sheep.
I like my odds of saying that an applicant just starting now, is probably in a good spot if they stay the course and have 10-20 years to apply (smartly).
Another thing to consider when applying or building points, is that the systems routinely change. Montana for example, went from a 1 point per year to a squared bonus point system. Having one guy with 1 point VS. someone that has 5 isn't that big of a difference. Having only 1 point versus the guy that has now been applying for 5 years in a squared bonus point situation, is now 25-1 favorite over the first time applicant.
Would you rather be the guy with 25 tickets in the barrel or 1?
To the OP, don't listen to the nay-sayers, take it from someone that has applied in a lot of states for along time. The only way to win is to play...and having points isn't going to do anything but help your odds, in particular long term.
I've drawn quite a number of good permits by staying the course, including 2 shiras bull permits.
Bill_in_MI
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-15 AT 02:23PM (MST)[p]I cant upload my 2011 vs 2015 pdf draw data to adequately make this point but...
Obviously not everyone applies every year. The concept you seem to be missing perhaps is that ENOUGH people with ENOUGH points apply every year to keep the 1st down markers moving.
What has happened in the last 10 years is that there have been enough permits available for a comparatively low number of 'high-point-holder-applicants.' This had made point creep less than linear and attainable (meaning most units took multiple years to advance a required preference point).
With the clearing out of the 20-16 point holders who are probably holding out, you still have to deal with the GLUT of backlog between 9-15 points...In the next year or 2, you will see a much closer to linear climb (its actually already begun if you graph it out) in necessary points to draw 90% of the units. Even with the reality of 25% of the point holders actually applying for the tag, the numbers are insurmountable. Never mind the fact that the people who are actually applying tend to be the higher point holders as opposed to the ones on the ground floor...
The 20 years in my 1st comment is a BEST case scenario and most likely is a result of me wanting to grasp at some shred of hope vs pure logic and probability.
Lastly, I'm sure there are not many NR's holding more than 9 points who are applying for a cow tag, that is unless they get some kind of medically relevant bad news and need to exit the game.
Obviously not everyone applies every year. The concept you seem to be missing perhaps is that ENOUGH people with ENOUGH points apply every year to keep the 1st down markers moving.
What has happened in the last 10 years is that there have been enough permits available for a comparatively low number of 'high-point-holder-applicants.' This had made point creep less than linear and attainable (meaning most units took multiple years to advance a required preference point).
With the clearing out of the 20-16 point holders who are probably holding out, you still have to deal with the GLUT of backlog between 9-15 points...In the next year or 2, you will see a much closer to linear climb (its actually already begun if you graph it out) in necessary points to draw 90% of the units. Even with the reality of 25% of the point holders actually applying for the tag, the numbers are insurmountable. Never mind the fact that the people who are actually applying tend to be the higher point holders as opposed to the ones on the ground floor...
The 20 years in my 1st comment is a BEST case scenario and most likely is a result of me wanting to grasp at some shred of hope vs pure logic and probability.
Lastly, I'm sure there are not many NR's holding more than 9 points who are applying for a cow tag, that is unless they get some kind of medically relevant bad news and need to exit the game.
Bill_in_MI
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Buzz, the question wasn't about other states and other species it was specifically WY moose...and as said, the permits are trending down while a huge number of soon to be max point holders will be claiming the tags for decades to come.
OP,
Make a plan and hunt moose 5 years from now in CAN. You'll be young enough to enjoy it and mature enough to appreciate it.
The hunting rags who make their living promoting the likelihood of drawing certain tags beat a similar drum to the above. If the masses really understood the super slim odds they probably would unsubscribe.
OP,
Make a plan and hunt moose 5 years from now in CAN. You'll be young enough to enjoy it and mature enough to appreciate it.
The hunting rags who make their living promoting the likelihood of drawing certain tags beat a similar drum to the above. If the masses really understood the super slim odds they probably would unsubscribe.
gznokes
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I like this debate. I tend to side more with Bill_in_MI however Buzz does make some good points about the game always changing.
I subscribed to the "apply, apply, apply" strategy for a long time and it has served me very well HOWEVER that was when points were cheap. Now days, the points for moose in WY are $75 each! The odds on drawing one of those random tags is very poor and at $75 per point, it means participants are valuing the tags at top, top dollar.
Don't even get me started on MT!
I subscribed to the "apply, apply, apply" strategy for a long time and it has served me very well HOWEVER that was when points were cheap. Now days, the points for moose in WY are $75 each! The odds on drawing one of those random tags is very poor and at $75 per point, it means participants are valuing the tags at top, top dollar.
Don't even get me started on MT!
Bill_in_MI
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To clarify when I said "with the reality of 25% of the point holders" applying, I was referring to a guestimate of how many actually apply of the 4000 people having between 9 and 15 points.
Since only 1700 or so of the 10000 total point holders actually apply for the tag, I am making the assumption that a higher percentage of applying applicants have points in this range.
Since only 1700 or so of the 10000 total point holders actually apply for the tag, I am making the assumption that a higher percentage of applying applicants have points in this range.
A guy can't base his strategy today off of what happened in the past. Someone applying 20 years ago has a 20 year head start and can't use that 20 experience to base his advice for someone applying for the first time.
When some of us started applying for moose in Wyoming there twice as many tags as there are today. The cost was much less. The math showed us we would draw within 10 years. Then the herd crashed and many people are just to blind to the fact that even with 11-12 points they are still many years away from drawing even a sub-par unit.
Factor in the proposed change to 90-10 split and it will take half of the nonresident moose tags. $75 a year (today) for a point that might take 30 years to draw and the $1400 license (today) means it will cost almost $4000 in today's dollars. Seems reasonable to assume that permit and point cost will increase over the next 30 years, so it will cost even more.
Best bet to hunt shiras moose is to save your money and buy a hunt the next time the economy crashes (the stock market takes a hit about every 10 years).
When some of us started applying for moose in Wyoming there twice as many tags as there are today. The cost was much less. The math showed us we would draw within 10 years. Then the herd crashed and many people are just to blind to the fact that even with 11-12 points they are still many years away from drawing even a sub-par unit.
Factor in the proposed change to 90-10 split and it will take half of the nonresident moose tags. $75 a year (today) for a point that might take 30 years to draw and the $1400 license (today) means it will cost almost $4000 in today's dollars. Seems reasonable to assume that permit and point cost will increase over the next 30 years, so it will cost even more.
Best bet to hunt shiras moose is to save your money and buy a hunt the next time the economy crashes (the stock market takes a hit about every 10 years).
Bill_in_MI
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-15 AT 01:38PM (MST)[p]Guys, please go back and read the original question.
It was not 'Hey, MM'ers, what far out moose hunts should I apply for at 37 years old? I realize I might never draw, but hey you can't play if you don't pay...'
The question TO ME, inferred being 'guaranteed' a WY moose tag.
Neither is this a right or wrong issue. I have been in the points game for pushing 20 years in a LOT of western states, so it isn't my 1st rodeo either.
What most people seem to "know" about NR WY moose realities is what they read in the magazines which pretty much sugarcoat the situation at hand. This closely relates to what became of the top units in AZ. What was promoted as a bonus point model essentially became a preference point game in high demand units. People obliviously applied for tags they NEVER had a "chance" for. WY moose is heading for the same gridlock. This dialog is about information relating to probability and how long that probability might be.
The truth of the matter is that the WY model of NR moose has changed from one of known's to unknown's.
Reality 1) His only chance to draw a tag in a minimum of 20 years is to apply in a tag area that guarantees a random tag.
Reality 2) Which seems to be a hard concept to grasp, is that in 5 years time, the people currently with 9-15 points will be the high point holders. There might be a handful of stragglers with more.
Reality 3) This spread of 6 points (9-15 holders today) will still most likely contain over 3700 people all competing for ALL the BONUS tags. What does this mean? That all of us in this range will be competing in effect as random applicants for approx 60 tags.
Today, having near max points can guarantee you a tag. This was what made it worth it for so many to point bank. Tomorrow (unless the rules change in your favor), it will simply be a random draw even in the bonus allocation of the system due to the shear number of max point pool applicants. How many years of handing out 60 tags to the high point holders will it take to clear out 3700 remaining names just in that point range? How many years will it take for someone starting out today to get into the possible max point spread? 20,30,50+? That is how the game has changed.
I'm really not sure why this is hard to understand.
It was not 'Hey, MM'ers, what far out moose hunts should I apply for at 37 years old? I realize I might never draw, but hey you can't play if you don't pay...'
The question TO ME, inferred being 'guaranteed' a WY moose tag.
Neither is this a right or wrong issue. I have been in the points game for pushing 20 years in a LOT of western states, so it isn't my 1st rodeo either.
What most people seem to "know" about NR WY moose realities is what they read in the magazines which pretty much sugarcoat the situation at hand. This closely relates to what became of the top units in AZ. What was promoted as a bonus point model essentially became a preference point game in high demand units. People obliviously applied for tags they NEVER had a "chance" for. WY moose is heading for the same gridlock. This dialog is about information relating to probability and how long that probability might be.
The truth of the matter is that the WY model of NR moose has changed from one of known's to unknown's.
Reality 1) His only chance to draw a tag in a minimum of 20 years is to apply in a tag area that guarantees a random tag.
Reality 2) Which seems to be a hard concept to grasp, is that in 5 years time, the people currently with 9-15 points will be the high point holders. There might be a handful of stragglers with more.
Reality 3) This spread of 6 points (9-15 holders today) will still most likely contain over 3700 people all competing for ALL the BONUS tags. What does this mean? That all of us in this range will be competing in effect as random applicants for approx 60 tags.
Today, having near max points can guarantee you a tag. This was what made it worth it for so many to point bank. Tomorrow (unless the rules change in your favor), it will simply be a random draw even in the bonus allocation of the system due to the shear number of max point pool applicants. How many years of handing out 60 tags to the high point holders will it take to clear out 3700 remaining names just in that point range? How many years will it take for someone starting out today to get into the possible max point spread? 20,30,50+? That is how the game has changed.
I'm really not sure why this is hard to understand.
Bill_in_MI
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I did...and provided some data above from it.
It's not what happened this year (although it's starting) or last year, or 5 years ago, or 10 years ago that matters.
There is another point (and explains point holder dispersal to a degree) and that is hunters today have the option to be better informed than in years past. So many of the guys that want to hunt in the next 10 years (like me with 13 points), will take almost any unit with a bull tag. As the reality of how long it will take to draw comes to greater light, less people will hold out for the top 2 units. Not all, but less. This is where the competition for tags will happen and the exaggerated time line of a bunch of people of a certain point range applying for the same thing. The bonus draw will simply equate to a random draw.
I'm beating a dead horse so I'll let it go.
It's not what happened this year (although it's starting) or last year, or 5 years ago, or 10 years ago that matters.
There is another point (and explains point holder dispersal to a degree) and that is hunters today have the option to be better informed than in years past. So many of the guys that want to hunt in the next 10 years (like me with 13 points), will take almost any unit with a bull tag. As the reality of how long it will take to draw comes to greater light, less people will hold out for the top 2 units. Not all, but less. This is where the competition for tags will happen and the exaggerated time line of a bunch of people of a certain point range applying for the same thing. The bonus draw will simply equate to a random draw.
I'm beating a dead horse so I'll let it go.
Thanks for all of the feed back on this thread. I agree with the stay possitive and if you dont play you cant win mind set. Going to set aside a credit card just for moose and apply in Wyoming and Idaho you never know rite. Maybe some day make it to Alaska!! Again thanks to all that have comented and good luck on your hunts this fall.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,155
I am in agreement with Bill here. I am 38 with 13 points and there is no way I am getting back in the game after getting a tag. It will take you 20 years+ (could easily be 30) to even have a chance at a PP bull tag. That $1500-$2500 would be better off spent saving for a Canadian Moose hunt in my opinion. If you want to pay to shoot a cow moose, then I say 100% get your points this year!
cbeard
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,458
>Don't just buy a point in
>Wyoming. Save-up the money, set
>it aside and use it
>to apply every single year
>in an area that gives
>random tags. Keep that money
>set aside for moose and
>moose only (not new tires
>for the truck). Then
>when you have enough points,
>you can draw in a
>"lesser" moose unit.... unless you've
>already drawn-out with a random
>tag.
>Buying points never will get you
>a moose tag!
>Yes, you should apply in Wyoming!
>IMHO
>
>Years ago, I had guys tell
>me I'd never have enough
>points for moose or sheep.
>They were wrong! I drew
>a moose tag last year
>and drew a sheep tag
>this year! Lucky? yes but
>I didn't get lucky by
>buying a point every year.
>
>Zeke
This is my philosophy. Same results. Drew the only NR WY Bighorns random draw moose tag in 2005. Drew a NR AZ desert sheep tag last year.
Are the odds long? Yes. But they are a heckuva lot longer if you don't put in. Perseverance pays.
Another factor some seem to gloss over is that a moose is not just a moose and a sheep is not just a sheep. The only way most of us will hunt Shiras moose is to draw a tag. The only way most of us will hunt desert or rocky mountain bighorns is to draw a tag.
>Wyoming. Save-up the money, set
>it aside and use it
>to apply every single year
>in an area that gives
>random tags. Keep that money
>set aside for moose and
>moose only (not new tires
>for the truck). Then
>when you have enough points,
>you can draw in a
>"lesser" moose unit.... unless you've
>already drawn-out with a random
>tag.
>Buying points never will get you
>a moose tag!
>Yes, you should apply in Wyoming!
>IMHO
>
>Years ago, I had guys tell
>me I'd never have enough
>points for moose or sheep.
>They were wrong! I drew
>a moose tag last year
>and drew a sheep tag
>this year! Lucky? yes but
>I didn't get lucky by
>buying a point every year.
>
>Zeke
This is my philosophy. Same results. Drew the only NR WY Bighorns random draw moose tag in 2005. Drew a NR AZ desert sheep tag last year.
Are the odds long? Yes. But they are a heckuva lot longer if you don't put in. Perseverance pays.
Another factor some seem to gloss over is that a moose is not just a moose and a sheep is not just a sheep. The only way most of us will hunt Shiras moose is to draw a tag. The only way most of us will hunt desert or rocky mountain bighorns is to draw a tag.
