Wyoming Sheep and Moose Survey

[Cozmo8]

I apologize if this has been beaten to death here but I did not see any recent threads. I received a survey in the mail today about Sheep and Moose tags in Wy. Basically the proposal is to increase the random tags to 50% of the entire tag allocation. Applicants that have been in the draw a long time may get screwed by taking longer to draw. Applicants with fewer points benefit as more chances to win.

I think it is again a money grab to keep people with few points in. They are showing that the chances of drawing have increased with more random tags.

First they up the PP to $100. 25-30% of applicants disappear. Let's keep the applicants we have and maybe get some more suckers in. I do not like it. I am sure the people with few points (the greater pool of people) will go for it and the people with the most points (the smaller pool of people) will be against it. How do you think it will turn out? Of course, they will change it to 50-50. They can rationalize it by saying that the majority surveyed went for the new proposition. What do you do?

 

[cabuck]

I think it is hilarious! People who have less than max. points think it's a great deal? You are trading the chance to definately draw a tag in your lifetime to possibly never draw. How long do you think it will now take you to get to the max. pref. level? Your odds in the random draw will still be horrible,1 in 75 best case senario. People with the most points will also have a chance at "your tags". The people quit because of the $100 fee, if it had not been increased the applications would be increasing per year. Your odds of getting to the max. point level just got a whole lot worse. Put in for your point every year, in 20 years with the current system, you probably will reach max. point level in some units, though not all units. So for $2000 in point fees you are going Rocky Mtn. sheep hunting. Going rate in Alberta, Cn. today, $25,000 on up.
Wyoming should lower the preference fee if they want more money. They got greedy and now found out how many real sheep hunters are out there, not $7.00 point accummlaters. Too bad, I have max. points so it doesn't effect me, 75%, 50% or 25% will just make it harder for people to ever catch up to be guaranteed a sheep tag. Not many states can make that claim.

Cabuck

 

[camuleycrazy]

I feel for the guys that are 2 or 3 points shy of the max. G&F really blew it with the huge increase to $100 point fee. I bet your right about the 50/50 split being most likely. I am max-1 so it only affects me if I hold out for non wilderness great hunt. I may go with an outfitter next year and be done with it.

 

[Cozmo8]

I am max-3. They may have just saved me $4,400. 20 years at $100 and $2,200 tag fee. I am screwed just do not know what to do yet.

 

[wymoosehunter]

I am a WY resident and welcome out of state hunters to this great state. But, I do want reciprocity in tags/fees and think that WY should match what the other states are doing with their NR tags. For example, if you are from Montana and apply in WY, all applicants from MT are restricted to 10% of the tags, but they would only pay what MT charges for NR permits which is the $753 plus $20 for preference points. Arizona, Utah and California would be really hurting because of the NR restrictions under reciprocity. RE: All California hunters collectively, would only be eligible to draw up to one sheep and one elk tag in all of WY and would have to pay the fees that CA charges NR hunters to apply there. That is fair because that is what they do to me when I apply in those states.
As to preference points and the bonus points system, my 10 year old son will never draw a WY sheep tag in a good area because it will be statistically impossible to draw at max draw because he will be too old or dead when he would draw at max points.
Make a sheep/moose/bison/goat tag once in a lifetime (OIL)for each state. The limited resources don't justify the ability to get lucky multiple times in a lifetime and others go completely without. IF you have drawn once and want to hunt a OIL again, pony up and apply in another state. The argument that once drawn, a person will no longer support conservation organizations or volunteer to help produce more sheep is bunk or the rare individual is so hedonistic and self-absorbed as to be a useless member of society.
This is from the prospective of a resident Max-2 perspective so I will draw in the next 4-6 years. If the selfish preference point system went away tomorrow, and I lost all advantages from my points, I would jump for joy for all the kids who will have some sort of chance to draw over all us greedy, selfish, old ba$*ards that are too stubborn to see past themselves and look to others.
If a state needs to generate the dollars, and feels a need to restrict the number of applicants, charge a fair amount for the application ($50-$75 per species) and make it so you are semi-serious about hunting a sheep when you apply because it will cost you. But also make it so that the average Joe can save enough to apply if that is what he really wants to do.
Just my two cents. Good luck in the remaining draws.
WyMO

 

[cabuck]

WyMo,

Your kid should start applying for his sheep hunt NOW! In 30 years, when he is 40, he will draw a sheep tag. As for once in a lifetime, that is a great idea. Wyoming like most states tries to gouge non-resident hunters to cover the low tag prices that resident hunters pay. I believe New Mexico is the only state with higher sheep tag prices. Moose you are at the top. Compared to other states, Wyoming tag prices are very high.

I do not live in Wy. so I will not comment on the plan for resident point system or not. Preference systems reward consistent applicants and early applicants. How many people your sons age will be getting points for sheep at 10 yrs. old? He could be getting a tag much sooner than his friends if you apply for him now. People whine and complain because they don't have points? Why not? You sound like a grown man, 15 years ago a point cost only $7.50, hell 5 years ago it was only $7.50, if you were serious about sheep hunting I believe that you would have the points. It's always someone else's fault.

Free advice, put your child in for any point system you can, he or she will thank you later. Remember when people tell you "it's not about the money", it is ALWAYS ABOUT THEIR MONEY.

Cabuck

 

[dwalton]

LAST EDITED ON May-20-10 AT 06:27AM (MST)[p]cabuck,

You CANNOT get points at age 10 in Wyo. It is still a two year wait. Even if he does start buying points in 2 years, his son will still (more than likely) NEVER make it out of the random draw pool. There are several lifetimes worth of points stacked up right now.

wymoose,

you hit the nail on the head with the point schemes in place right now. We have effectively locked the youth hunters out of the top tier units in the West.

 

[camuleycrazy]

Good points everyone. We know now that the systems will have to change because of the youth problem. Wymoose if you start your kids as soon as possible they will get a tag someday. All those in line now will be dead. I am with you on the once in a lifetime sheep, moose goat. You also have a point about the non-res quotas which I think should be 50-50 as the game belongs to all americans. Some states like Ca. Oregon etc. really suck. With the number of people increasing and a limited resource it's only going to get worse.

 

[cabuck]

Camuleycrazy,

Plus one, like I stated how many kids will start their point program at the earliest age possible?

dwalton,

If you start your kids on the points in Wy. at the earliest age possible you have done your job as a parent and he WILL thank you later. It my take him or her 40 years to draw but they will draw, people expire, become disinterested, systems change. Maybe Wy. in 20 years goes to a 90% resident allotment for sheep tags. Kids are no different than anyone else, why should they get a sheep tag when they turn 18. The random draw is fine.

Now other states, yes for kids some of the systems are horrible. The best system is Nv., they have a great junior hunt system. Even California has junior hunts until you become 16.

Cabuck

 

[littlebighorn]

I am curious who got the surveys because neither myself or my son got one and we apply and buy points in Wyoming every year?
And for what it is worth, I started my son in the Wyoming draw for sheep and moose as soon as he was old enough. He is now 23 with 11 points and way ahead of his time for a permit. It will take some time still to get on top, but with guys dropping out (and over), He will get a permit for both some day...unless wolves get them all!

I enjoy hunting with him more than hunting for myself now, so I think it has been well worth the investment. I have to work 2 jobs to cover the cost, but hey, isn't that what life is about?

 

[Twoshooter]

The reason why the point system was started is because people put in for hunts for 20 years and never drew a tag. They complained and we now have a different system in every state. Now people that have already drawn a tag or have kids getting old enough to hunt realize that the odds are against them with point systems. The odds are against them without point systems too. I preffer a system that rewards you for puting in every year, even if it takes a lifetime to get a tag. I do think that once a state comes out with a plan that they should stick to that plan and quit chaging it mid stream, wether it is raising the fee to 100 or changing the ratio to 50-50.

 

[Cozmo8]

I testified before the Idaho F and G comission a few years ago and presented the youth argument to keep them from instituting a point system. They did not adopt one at that time. Not because of the youth but for other reasons. They are now considering it again. I agree it hurts the youth bad and I think all states should be like Idaho. By the way I have no children.

That being said I think I am taking it in the butt right now from Wy. Does Wy give more tags than most states to non-res? Yes. But they have lead us into believing that we would see our money from years of applying pay off with a tag some day. Now that is being pulled away.