SMOKESTICK
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Wyoming Takes Poaching Serious
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-12 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]I've been following that one and the Carter case over in TenSleep closely since I do most of my hunting in that county. That kid needed to be taken off the streets for a length of time since it appears he was violating more than just wildlife laws. What is a shame is even if he turns his life around he has lost his hunting priviledges for life at the age of 19. I presume since he pled to felonies that will also mean he loses his right to vote and to own any firearms. I can't say that bothers me though as he seems to be an accident waiting to happen.
The Carter case that was just adjudicated in the last 30 days ticked me off because of the way the G&F has allotted tags to small acreages and then the Carters subdivided their ranch into those small chunks to be eligible for many more landowner tags than they really should have access to. Then they used them illegally by charging hunters to use their land and those tags. The old man that was the ring leader should have received a much more severe penalty than he did. However, since the Federal Judge is the wife of the former Governor, it appears that there was probably some political back scratching since a friend of mine out there stated carter was a pretty good monetary supporter of the Governor!
The Carter case that was just adjudicated in the last 30 days ticked me off because of the way the G&F has allotted tags to small acreages and then the Carters subdivided their ranch into those small chunks to be eligible for many more landowner tags than they really should have access to. Then they used them illegally by charging hunters to use their land and those tags. The old man that was the ring leader should have received a much more severe penalty than he did. However, since the Federal Judge is the wife of the former Governor, it appears that there was probably some political back scratching since a friend of mine out there stated carter was a pretty good monetary supporter of the Governor!
SMOKESTICK
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TOPGUN,
I agree the Carter case was sickening. Comparing these two cases, I do believe they got off way too easy. Makes me really want to look at the landowner license system. Perhaps some thing should be done to address how the system was exploited.
I agree the Carter case was sickening. Comparing these two cases, I do believe they got off way too easy. Makes me really want to look at the landowner license system. Perhaps some thing should be done to address how the system was exploited.
travishunter3006
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I'd like to see utah follow in Wyoming's foot steps on this issue. I really enjoyed the part of the article that touched on penalties for CHRONIC poachers. Whack one deer illegally...slap on the wrist... a second...cut your fingers off... then three (chronic) and they take your wanghoozer....
Good to see some pay the penalty for what affects hundreds, if not thousands!
Good to see some pay the penalty for what affects hundreds, if not thousands!
LAST EDITED ON Jul-19-12 AT 06:58AM (MST)[p]junior---Wyoming does have checkpoints that are just like the ones you see on Wardens. All hunters must stop at them, regardless of whether you have taken any game or not. I heartily agree with you on addressing the landowner tag issue Bob. That 160 acre landowner tag needs to be revisited, and yet I hear other guys talking about people with one acre in NM getting landowner tags. Now if that isn't ludicrous, what is!!! I also disagree with landowner tags being used on public land unless it's within the ranch boundary or other extenuating circumstances such as animals wintering on a ranch, but not being there during an open season.
nontypical
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-19-12 AT 09:35AM (MST)[p]I would also like to see the landowner tag program overhauled in Wyoming.Landowner tags come out of the tag pool.In many units,they take half of all tags available.Many hunters don't realize this.
Problem is,you take away the landowner tags,they could take away access.In SW Wy,Rock Springs Grazing Association receives quite a few tags,and they control a buttload of land.As it stands now,they let anyone hunt there,and don't even require permission.You just go hunt there.Could we really afford to lose that access?
No easy answers here.With the present system,there is definitely potential for abuse;as evidenced with the Carter case.
Carter's got off easy.Too bad.Not only did they blatantly break laws,they conspired to do so using the landowner tag allocation as a weapon.What a crock.
Poachers suck.I hate poachers,especially those that do it for monetary gain.They are the worst of the lot.We are still way too easy on poachers,IMO.Too bad they didn't do what they did to this kid to the Carters.Their transgressions were at least as bad,IMO.
Problem is,you take away the landowner tags,they could take away access.In SW Wy,Rock Springs Grazing Association receives quite a few tags,and they control a buttload of land.As it stands now,they let anyone hunt there,and don't even require permission.You just go hunt there.Could we really afford to lose that access?
No easy answers here.With the present system,there is definitely potential for abuse;as evidenced with the Carter case.
Carter's got off easy.Too bad.Not only did they blatantly break laws,they conspired to do so using the landowner tag allocation as a weapon.What a crock.
Poachers suck.I hate poachers,especially those that do it for monetary gain.They are the worst of the lot.We are still way too easy on poachers,IMO.Too bad they didn't do what they did to this kid to the Carters.Their transgressions were at least as bad,IMO.
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-19-12 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]No doubt the landowner tag situation needs to change.
There should be a limit to the number of LO tags issued, like say 5% of all available tags. As it is now, there is NO LIMIT on the number of LO tags issued. Technically, every single tag available in say deer unit 102 could be issued to landowners and the public could receive ZERO.
The trouble is, when you have a system in place, there will always be those that stretch the intent of that system. Just the way people work.
Just looked at some numbers for elk unit 124.
Total of 40 any elk tags issued, 12 are going to landowners, 28 to the public.
System is broken.
There should be a limit to the number of LO tags issued, like say 5% of all available tags. As it is now, there is NO LIMIT on the number of LO tags issued. Technically, every single tag available in say deer unit 102 could be issued to landowners and the public could receive ZERO.
The trouble is, when you have a system in place, there will always be those that stretch the intent of that system. Just the way people work.
Just looked at some numbers for elk unit 124.
Total of 40 any elk tags issued, 12 are going to landowners, 28 to the public.
System is broken.
LAST EDITED ON Jul-19-12 AT 10:31AM (MST)[p]The landowner tag system is something that I hadn't really looked into much in Wyoming until this Carter case came up near where I hunt every year. I was not aware until recently in that like BuzzH stated, there is no limit on number issued. That definitely needs to be changed to a limited percentage, whatever that might be, but when they could take everything in a low tag unit, that just isn't proper IMHO. Are these tags taken equally or just from the nonresident pool, as I haven't even checked into that?
Edit: I wondered where BuzzH got that number in his edit and I figured that he had to have gone into the Rules & Regs. for the total and then into the odds and counted things up to come up with 28 left after the landowner tags were issued. Now I am really shocked and ticked when I found the following for 124: No random regular or special tags were issued to NRs and only one tag was issued to NRs in each of the PP draws. That left 26 of the 28 tags that were left after the landowners got theres that went to the residents. IMHO, the system is definitely broken when in four NR draws there are only 2 tags issued to us NRs when we are basically carrying the load for the G&F budget! Something needs to be changed, as that is even worse than the tags that were allocated to outfitters in Montana until that was abolished a year ago.
Edit: I wondered where BuzzH got that number in his edit and I figured that he had to have gone into the Rules & Regs. for the total and then into the odds and counted things up to come up with 28 left after the landowner tags were issued. Now I am really shocked and ticked when I found the following for 124: No random regular or special tags were issued to NRs and only one tag was issued to NRs in each of the PP draws. That left 26 of the 28 tags that were left after the landowners got theres that went to the residents. IMHO, the system is definitely broken when in four NR draws there are only 2 tags issued to us NRs when we are basically carrying the load for the G&F budget! Something needs to be changed, as that is even worse than the tags that were allocated to outfitters in Montana until that was abolished a year ago.
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-19-12 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]The LO tags are all taken FIRST. If there are any tags left, they then go to the public draw (R and NR). So, If NR are limited to 20% of the available elk tags in 124, the percentage is based off 28 tags...not 40.
The system is well past broken...not to mention that the draw odds for areas like 102, 101, 124, 100, etc. are terrible. Buy some land in those units and you can hunt it every year with 100% draw odds.
Seems fair to me???
Back prior to 2006/2007 they also listed the LO draw odds...the available quota was always 100% of the total tags available per unit. Also 100% draw odds for every single unit for elk, deer, and antelope.
I see they pulled the LO draw odds in most cases...wonder why?
The system is well past broken...not to mention that the draw odds for areas like 102, 101, 124, 100, etc. are terrible. Buy some land in those units and you can hunt it every year with 100% draw odds.
Seems fair to me???
Back prior to 2006/2007 they also listed the LO draw odds...the available quota was always 100% of the total tags available per unit. Also 100% draw odds for every single unit for elk, deer, and antelope.
I see they pulled the LO draw odds in most cases...wonder why?
Seems we have an agreement on the LO issue. Since SFW WY claims to have signficant political clout in this State and likes to take credit where ever they can get it, maybe you guys outta be pestering SFW to get the legislature to change the system. Sounds good to me...
nontypical,
Are you sure about the RSGA getting landowner tags? That surprises me as i was under the impression that they simply leased the grazing rights and did nto own it outright. I know where I work we lease surface rights but that still allows RSGA to graze on that land but the owners are still the public(BLM) and Anadarko. If that is true about RSGA then that seems strange. I know as a leasee of the surface rights we do not recieve any LO tags.
Are you sure about the RSGA getting landowner tags? That surprises me as i was under the impression that they simply leased the grazing rights and did nto own it outright. I know where I work we lease surface rights but that still allows RSGA to graze on that land but the owners are still the public(BLM) and Anadarko. If that is true about RSGA then that seems strange. I know as a leasee of the surface rights we do not recieve any LO tags.
nontypical
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RSGA owns plenty of land,and they are a big LO tag receiver.I know people who use RSGA LO tags to hunt deer area 102 every year,as well as elk areas 30,100,and 124.Elk tags in 124 were raised to 40 from 25(last year)in response to the public whining about the number of LO tags being so high that it was affecting draw odds.So now the odds are like 1% better than before.Good sound management right there.Quality was already declining out there.This could be the last year for good quality in the unit.Rather than address the issue of revamping the LO tag system,Wy G&F chooses to ignore the obvious problems there and merely raise tag numbers.WAFJ.
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