Youth opportunities in Utah - Not happy

sled_guy · Jun 1, 2012

Ok, this is admittedly a rant.

I believe Utah has made a huge mistake with the way they did the deer tags this year for the youth. Switching to making them draw a rifle tag in order to hunt all the hunts put them in to the same fiasco/confussion that everyone else experienced with the new draw system.

We had 14 people put in for deer tags... 10 of them were kids. 1 adult (lifetime license holder) and 1 kid ended up with deer tags. Kids are the future of hunting in this country and making it harder for them to get tags is short sighted at best and stupid at worst. I don't care if I didn't draw a tag this year. But I have a teenage son who put in for general deer, premium bull and youth bull with no success. He has LOTS of things competing for his interest and with just one permit he is captured for another year, talking about and prepping for the hunt, spending time shooting, training hikes, scouting, etc. Without a tag, he moves on to other things for the summer and I worry that capturing his excitement for hunting next year will be even harder.

Just seems like Utah mistepped on the youth this year.

sled_guy

Zeke · Jun 1, 2012

I agree with almost all of your rant. Thanks.

here's a possible solution;
Put him in for a cow elk tag. The F&G set aside 15-20% of those tags for the youth hunters. Hey, it's not a premium bull tag but it's a hunt! If you act excited about it, he'll get excited about a cow hunt!

Most any hunt only last for a handful of days and the real joy for youth hunters comes from the shooting, planning, workouts, etc building up to the hunt. A cow hunt can be every bit as challenging as a deer hunt and great freezer fare to boot.

Just my thoughts on how you could salvage the season,
Zeke

BIGJOHNT · Jun 1, 2012

I had the same rant on another thread. In other words I agree 100 %. For the first time not one of my kids drew a tag in the family. Just the three of us with lifetime tags.
But the saving grace maybe a cow elk tag ?
I can only hope.
Another thing here, if I as a lifetimer can donated my tag to one of my kids legally that would be nice. I have shot alot of deer in my life and am not likely going to shoot at a smaller buck. So the odds of me shooting a deer in a general unit are small. I havent shot at a deer since 2004. I would enjoy seeing a young hunter take any deer .Then me hiking threw the hills looking for the buck of a lifetime when there isn't one on the whole unit anyway.

BillyBoB · Jun 1, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-12 AT 11:33AM (MST)[p]+1 with Zeke

I have a young child who did not draw the early youth elk hunt but was lucky enough to draw a general rifle deer tag. But even though he was able to draw a deer tag, I'm also going to throw him in the cow elk tag draw as well. How I look at it is, I want to give my young hunter every opportunity that I can to get him excited about hunting. I want him on that mountain as much as possible. If that means putting him in for every hunt possible, then that's what I'm going to do. Only because I can see the same passion he has in his eyes for hunting as I do. It is something that I wish my father would have done for me when I was a youngster.

I'm not disagreeing with you because there is some truth to what you posted. With the rules of hunting every season with a rifle tag...it made every youngster out there apply for that rifle tag so they could hunt longer. But if you wanted him to have a better chance(better odds) at drawing a tag, then maybe should have had him/her put in for the muzzy or archery general tag and sacrifice the longer hunting season. I guarantee you that less kids applied for those two weapons.

Just something to think about for next year if the youth hunting rules apply to next year.

Zeke · Jun 1, 2012

Bigjohnt,
I don't know of a legal way to transfer your deer tag. Too bad.

BTW: I JUST READ WHERE SLED_GUY'S SON DREW AN EARLY YOUTH BULL TAG!!!! Congrats but at 1 in 90 odds what the heck are you whining about???

Hey Sled, what about an OTC tag of some kind in Colorado?

Zeke

400bull · Jun 1, 2012

First off I want to say that I feel your pain. I have a 13 year old that did not get a tag this year. I know the frustration that comes with not drawing a tag.

Second, and correct me if I am wrong here if I remember correctly youth had to draw an any weapon tag last year to hunt all three season. If they drew a muzzy or archery tag they could only hunt that season. Nothing has changed as far as that goes this year.

Lastly youth don't have to go big game hunting to get hooked on hunting. I took my boy hunting waterfowl, sage grouse, deer , spike elk and on a cow elk hunt last year. If I were to ask him today what he wanted to do this year I'll bet you your second mortgage that he would go duck hunting and sage grouse hunting before he went big game hunting. Why? Because he seen game and got plenty of shooting in. I learned last year if I keep it simple and fun kids will want to go hunting.

400bull

desertpointbrian · Jun 2, 2012

i know of 10 kids between work family and friends. who did not draw a general deer tag. kind of sucks to see them so bummed out. they are the future of the sport let them hunt. i personaly would give up my 4 th choice general draw tag if i knew it was going to go to a youth tag holder. and just chase some spike elk around for the year

HuntinFool · Jun 2, 2012

There are plenty of leftover tags. They may not be in the best unit, but at least you get to go out. I was lucky enough to draw my first choice as a youth. I am the only one in my family without any points that drew it.

coondog · Jun 2, 2012

go buy some spike elk tags and hunt might not kill a bull but your kids most likely wouldn't have seen a deer to shoot at anyways. hopefully this new program will grow some more deer for when the kids can get a tag and have a better hunt.thats my plan.

sled_guy · Jun 4, 2012

>BTW: I JUST READ WHERE SLED_GUY'S
>SON DREW AN EARLY YOUTH
>BULL TAG!!!! Congrats but at
>1 in 90 odds what
>the heck are you whining
>about???
>
>Hey Sled, what about an OTC
>tag of some kind in
>Colorado?
>
>Zeke

Yup, my one son drew the Youth Elk tag.

My other kids didn't draw anything nor did the other 8 kids in our group... that's what I was referring too.

With the left over archery tags maybe I'll have to buy them some bows.

Over the last week I've talked to a lot of people in my circle of friends... lots of disappointed kids who didn't draw. Guess its time they learned that hunting in Utah is a frustrating endeavor.

I love the idea of being able to transfer the lifetime tag (not the license, just that year's tag) to one of your kids, that would be a cool option... for those that have a lifetime license.

sled_guy

bigbuckman2 · Jun 4, 2012

I think if anyone under 18 puts in for deer they should be given the tag and allowed to hunt archery, muzzleoader, and rifle. In my opinion this is a must for the future of hunting.

stillhunterman · Jun 4, 2012

Granted, wildlife and hunter management can be compicated issues to deal with but one thing is certain: Without solid recruitment yearly our heritage is in for even more dramatic changes. I saw an article where even our National Parks are being visited less and less by those in their 20's and under. There is so much competition for young people's time, the outdoors is quickly losing track. We need to find ways for getting youth more involved in hunting and fishing and the great outdoors, without a doubt...

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

400bull · Jun 4, 2012

I agree 100% that we need to do a better job at recruiting our youth. But I don't think that answer to recruiting out youth lies within big game hunting. Let's face it big game hunting is ?WORK? you have to work to locate, work to harvest, and we all know we have to work once the trigger has been pulled. Not to mention the work that has to go in to the preparation and keeping up with regulation changes.
I personally feel that our best opportunity to recruiter the youth is to get them more involved in Upland game and Water Fowl hunting. Think about it season are generally speaking longer given the youth the opportunity to still be kids but at the same time they can work in a weekend hunt from time to time. It's far less work to go hunting upland game or water fowl. Their chances of being successful are much greater then big game hunting. If nothing else they have a ton better chance of just getting in some shooting. If you really want to get the youth involved into hunting upland game and water fowl hunting is going to be the key.
Just my 2 pence worth!

400bull

Zeke · Jun 4, 2012

That's a great idea Mr 400bull.
I had to wait until I was 16 to deer hunt and required to wait until 14 to bird hunt. Those first two years of hunting were absolutely loaded with fun trips to the marshes and sloughs! It's the reason I love bird hunting and shotgun shooting to this day!
Zeke

stillhunterman · Jun 4, 2012

>I agree 100% that we need
>to do a better job
>at recruiting our youth. But
>I don't think that answer
>to recruiting out youth lies
>within big game hunting. Let's
>face it big game hunting
>is ?WORK? you have to
>work to locate, work to
>harvest, and we all know
>we have to work once
>the trigger has been pulled.
>Not to mention the work
>that has to go in
>to the preparation and keeping
>up with regulation changes.
>I personally feel that our best
>opportunity to recruiter the youth
>is to get them more
>involved in Upland game and
>Water Fowl hunting. Think
>about it season are generally
>speaking longer given the youth
>the opportunity to still be
>kids but at the same
>time they can work in
>a weekend hunt from time
>to time. It's far less
>work to go hunting upland
>game or water fowl.
>Their chances of being successful
>are much greater then big
>game hunting. If nothing else
>they have a ton better
>chance of just getting in
>some shooting. If you
>really want to get the
>youth involved into hunting upland
>game and water fowl hunting
>is going to be the
>key.
>Just my 2 pence worth!
>
>400bull

Agreed 400bull. The UDWR is instituting a new Hunter Ed Mentor program and the UWC is working on expanding the program to include just what you are talking about. It's in the early stages but I sure do hope it blossoms into a great program for new and young hunters via the outlet you described.

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

utahbigbull · Jun 4, 2012

>I don't think that answer
>to recruiting out youth lies
>within big game hunting. Let's
>face it big game hunting
>is ?WORK? you have to
>work to locate, work to
>harvest, and we all know
>we have to work once
>the trigger has been pulled.
>Not to mention the work
>that has to go in
>to the preparation and keeping
>up with regulation changes.
>I personally feel that our best
>opportunity to recruiter the youth
>is to get them more
>involved in Upland game and
>Water Fowl hunting.

Just summed it up with my kids 400!!! I got my soon to be 12 year old boy out Turkey and water fowl hunting in 2011. I have to say that watching my son taking down ducks and geese was pure enjoyment. He had an absolute blast and it is something we can do frequently, cheap, and easily with very low stress and "pressure of the hunt". He loves it because he knows he should be getting some shooting in and not be working his tail off while enjoying quailty time in the outdoors with his old man.

He did luck out and get his first choice any weapon deer tag and should have a good chance of getting his cow tag and he is stoked, no doubt about it. But I can tell you that after last year, he is a hooked hunter for life and is looking forward to the geese, ducks, and swan hunts every bit as much and it will keep him interested in hunting untill he matures and develops into a more physicaly capable big game hunter.

Gunnie3035 · Jun 4, 2012

Exactly, I had to wait till I was 16 as well. A 12-13 yo and probably many 14 year olds cant pull back a 45lb bow. If they cant pull a bow back then they aint old enough to hunt big game. But yet we see it fit to hand them a rifle capable of launching a deadly projectile nearly a half mile and think nothing of it.

You guys are brainwashed into thinking more youth big game tags will equal more adult big game hunters. This is not true, never has been, never will be. And even if it was, it does not make a darm bit of difference as 87K permits is the same today as it will be 5 years from now. I understand the dissappointment, but it isn't the DWR's job to entertain your children. There are many alternatives out there....

Robiland · Jun 5, 2012

PLEASE DONT RIP MY HEAD OFF!!!

But I have to disagree with most of what you guys are saying. I have 4 boys up and coming. Now to rewind. I bet that most of you did not start hunting till you were 16, like me. BUT, Its not about holding the gun, its about being with the family on those hunts. I remember following my dad all over the hills wishing I could hunt. I do remeber the year they changed the 16 rule to 14, I had just turned 16. I was pissed at the time, but oh well. And now its younger. I think 14 is the right age. We cater and give so much to our kids its crazy. I am sure I will do alot for my kids, but, they will need to earn and buy the things they want like I did growing up.

Like mentioned before, duck hunting, goose hunting, dove hunting, spike elk hunting and so on. Get them out and they will enjoy it. Some will take and others wont. I can already see it in my kids right now who will hunt and who wont.