YumaOutdoorsman
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Looks like the kills are already piling up pretty quick. Curious to see how long it takes for some of these units to close due to reached quotas.
I have heard guys say that and even post it but I haven't seen anything factual yet from a reliable source. If it is true, we need mandatory physical check-in's like they do bear & lion.I read that PETA is calling in fake reports for harvested deer.
They would have to buy both the license and tag. Would be hard to prove without physically checking in the deer.So....PETA people are actually buying a tag?.....I would assume you need to have tag info to make a report....
I doubt it is happening.....how many PETA people would go through the hunter safety course....but maybe.They would have to buy both the license and tag. Would be hard to prove without physically checking in the deer.
But again, I’m gonna guess it’s just stuff flying around the internet. Guys are frustrated the way this is playing out.
What we’re gonna see is hoards of people in 3 units come January. Unintended consequences.
Yeah I concur. Think it’s just internet rumors and frustration and guys trying to rile up the hunting masses!I doubt it is happening.....how many PETA people would go through the hunter safety course....but maybe.
See highlighted in bold."What we’re gonna see is hoards of people in 3 units come January. Unintended consequences."
That was absolutely GUARANTEED to happen if the system hadn't been changed and more and more of the OTC hunts were moved to a drawing each year as was planned. At least under the new system, there's a reasonable chance that there will be a fair number of units still open for the later season. Those units that currently look like they may close before the three-week season is over (which is really only two units at this point) would not have even been available to most hunters this year (since they would have been very limited entry draw hunts) under last year's system. So, most of us will have lost nothing through this new system. Instead, many hundreds of hunters were able to hunt those units this year, if for a shorter time, which was the entire purpose of the change.
The reason the new system was adopted was to allow a lot more hunters the opportunity to hunt far more open units. If you don't think that the expectation was that the 35 deer harvest limit was going to be reached in less than three weeks (when 125 draw hunters killed approximately that many in three weeks last year), you're just not that bright. G&F knew how many hunters would be in there for an OTC hunt based on data from the previous years before it was put to a draw. I don't know that number off the top of my head, but let's use (the probably conservative number of) 600 as a number for argument's sake. If you don't think the expectation was that 600 hunters would kill 35 deer in fewer days than 125 hunters did last year on a three-week hunt, then I guess this will be "unexpected consequences" for you.
Don't need a hunter safety course to buy a $45 deer tag and a $37 license. You're crazy if you don't think Peta and other animal rights people would pay $80ish dollars to save a deer. Those groups have more money than they know what to do with. Rather than a physical check in why not require atleast a picture of your tag attached to the antler? Would be easy to do with smartphones nowadays and would stop the antis from reporting fake kills.Yeah I concur. Think it’s just internet rumors and frustration and guys trying to rile up the hunting masses!
Think you replied to the wrong person. I never said they need Hunter Ed.Don't need a hunter safety course to buy a $45 deer tag and a $37 license. You're crazy if you don't think Peta and other animal rights people would pay $80ish dollars to save a deer. Those groups have more money than they know what to do with. Rather than a physical check in why not require atleast a picture of your tag attached to the antler? Would be easy to do with smartphones nowadays and would stop the antis from reporting fake kills.
Mandatory reporting now for the general rifle and muzzy hunters as well?I'll admit, I'm a little surprised at the numbers so far. The good news is that we have been begging G&F for mandatory reporting for years and now we got. After 2-3 years of this reporting, G&F can begin to make some adjustments. Data Driven Decision Making. I only hope they continue to allow the bowhunting community a voice in these decisions.
When all the OTC hunts are over, I will be curious as to how many of the deer killed were taken with crossbows.
Yeah sorry meant to reply to Homer.Think you replied to the wrong person. I never said they need Hunter Ed.
I use a crossbow and am very happy the state allows it.Petition the commission to ban crossbows during an archery hunt if you are against it.
If crossbows make up 25% of the take then reduce archery harvest by that much and give crossbow hunters their own hunt. Not a good idea? Soon they are going to have hard numbers. I think it is only fair since crossbow kills are already being counted as an archery kill.
Getting a crossbow ban could possibly be done. The reason we can carry handguns is because 4 of us got together and petitioned the commission. There was an individual from Tucson that was spokesman for the group.
The commission listened.
Shooting spikes is a good thing. Let's all the mature deer get even bigger for those that are holding out for a trophy. A few years of the quotas being filled by spikes will have those units overrun with 180" bucks. Lol.Unit 1 has reach it's quota. I wish they would make it so it has to be a forkie or bigger that is legal to shoot. There were so many spikes posted on social media this weekend. It's great people are out hunting but sucks to see how many spikes get killed.
Hard for a deer to hit 180" when they die as a spike.Shooting spikes is a good thing. Let's all the mature deer get even bigger for those that are holding out for a trophy. A few years of the quotas being filled by spikes will have those units overrun with 180" bucks. Lol.
I don't understand that logic. The people shooting spikes likely are never going to have a chance at a mature buck. Sure, there are some big bucks that will be along a road but the majority of mature bucks take some effort to hunt. The spikes and forkies being shot this last weekend in Unit 1 and 27 are most likely road hunters shooting deer standing 30-50 yards off the road.Shooting spikes is a good thing. Let's all the mature deer get even bigger for those that are holding out for a trophy. A few years of the quotas being filled by spikes will have those units overrun with 180" bucks. Lol.
I think the biggest issue is if you look at the number of crossbow permits. It exploded . The actual qualifications and or people that can sign off on it has made it a cheat code to some.I use a crossbow and am very happy the state allows it.
Are you also against giving the disabled and handicap some extra advantages? Kids too?Started Bowhunting in 1978. In all that time I have personally known only one person who was 100% archery their entire hunting life. Most guys either used hunt with guns and converted over to archery or they still occasionally apply & hunt with a gun (I fall into this category). Why all of a sudden people think they can continue to hunt with a crossbow during archery season? Either hunt with crossbow during gun hunt or go back to gun hunting. I had an early rifle 12A west tag and hunted it with bow & arrow. It can be done. I am in favor of a one-time temporary permit if you have already drawn the tag. This can only be used once. After that, you apply for hunts that fit your abilities without any special permits.
Carrying a crossbow around is much more difficult than carrying a long gun around. I think everybody knows why they do it but just don't like to talk about.
Getting old sucks but we all must face father time. This coming from someone about to enter my 6th decade.
My 2 cents.
I've said this before. If somebody is against crossbows during archery season petition the commission to eliminate them instead of bitching about it on the www. Taking action is how change occurs.Started Bowhunting in 1978. In all that time I have personally known only one person who was 100% archery their entire hunting life. Most guys either used hunt with guns and converted over to archery or they still occasionally apply & hunt with a gun (I fall into this category). Why all of a sudden people think they can continue to hunt with a crossbow during archery season? Either hunt with crossbow during gun hunt or go back to gun hunting. I had an early rifle 12A west tag and hunted it with bow & arrow. It can be done. I am in favor of a one-time temporary permit if you have already drawn the tag. This can only be used once. After that, you apply for hunts that fit your abilities without any special permits.
Carrying a crossbow around is much more difficult than carrying a long gun around. I think everybody knows why they do it but just don't like to talk about.
Getting old sucks but we all must face father time. This coming from someone about to enter my 6th decade.
My 2 cents.
I have written and talked to dept. to get changes in the past. I know how the process works. I would like to think part of the reason they are giving 10 archery antelope permits in unit 6a is because of me and lobbying to make it happen. I am not taking full credit because there were others involved. There are many of us that are doing the same thing for the crossbow abuse during archery seasons. As you probably know, G&F does not move real fast. Took about 7 years to get the archery 6a antelope tags.I've said this before. If somebody is against crossbows during archery season petition the commission to eliminate them instead of bitching about it on the www. Taking action is how change occurs.
No, I am not against youth and disabled hunts but they already have hunts for them. If you are truly disabled, apply for them and I wish you all the happiness and luck on your hunt.Are you also against giving the disabled and handicap some extra advantages? Kids too?
Unless I am mistaken crossbows are the only weapon category that does not have it's own season. If they are banned the dept, needs to give them their own. Since they are already being counted during the archery hunts take time and quota numbers from the bow hunts and allot them to an xbow season for disabled hunters. It can be done. They do it for CHAMP hunters now.No, I am not against youth and disabled hunts but they already have hunts for them. If you are truly disabled, apply for them and I wish you all the happiness and luck on your hunt.
My nephew has MS. Can‘t pull a bow now but can use a crossbow, most of the time. He may not be able to hunt someday and it is his passion. 30 years old. Was a very good archer, still one heck of a hunter.
Lol coming from a guy that is butthurt that a disabled person can still get in the field and do what he loves instead of just quitting hunting. I get it. Thankfully the law is on the disabled peoples side even with curmudgeons like you actively trying to change it. Sad you're not enough of a dedicated archer to stick with it on your antelope hunt, even more sad you would even consider applying for a rifle tag and taking it from someone else when you're perfectly capable of hunting with a bow. (Heavy Sarcasm on the end there in case it goes over your head)When you got nothing else, resort to name calling. I get it.
I agree with that that there are people exploiting it but as you mentioned the answer isn't to take it from everyone. Not sure what they can do other than tighten up what qualifies for getting one but as long as it's up to any doctor to sign off on it a few people will use that to their advantage. Problem is who are we or who is azgfd to tell a doctor that someone's medical problem qualifies or not if its on the list? I would like to see the numbers but I have a feeling a very small percentage of archery tags are being used by guys with crossbows whether they truly qualify or not.Crossbows shouldn’t be eliminated at all, but the process refined. There are people that 100% need it.
Then there is the crowd that found a legal loophole and some guides even advising it. Unfortunately it’s the name of the game for upping the chances of a tag.
I’ll have to go back and find the data but the numbers absolutely exploded in recent years as tags have gotten harder to draw.
Yes, but that 140" deer that that got to live another year because somebody shot a spike will have a chance. Every spike that dies gives a bigger deer another year to get even bigger.Hard for a deer to hit 180" when they die as a spike.
And the spikes have a harder time surviving early rifle season than early archery. Even on the Kaibab the vast majority of bucks killed in the early season are young deer.Yes, but that 140" deer that that got to live another year because somebody shot a spike will have a chance. Every spike that dies gives a bigger deer another year to get even bigger.
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