Is it illegal to shoot a trumpeter?“There are plenty of trumpeter Swans. In fact there are more now than in previous years. That's why they are getting shot at such a fast pace. There really is no need to limit their harvest. They do it mostly for public perception.”
The number of trumpeter swans and weather or not they have huntable numbers is not up to you or I… That’s up to the feds and we all take the orientation class before applying..,
Accidents happen, but targeting them should not!
No, but the hunt is not intended to kill Trumpeters. They are accidentally shot and that’s why it’s not illegal. I would hate for it to get shut down permanently because they are being targeted specifically.Is it illegal to shoot a trumpeter?
"While it is strongly discouraged, shooting protected trumpeters is legal in Utah"
To me that is the perfect example of why they don’t make it illegal. Because it is extremely tough to differentiate between the two and they are shot by pure accident. I think what people have a problem with are individuals specifically targeting Trumpeters like in the post above.It would be interesting to know how many were accidentally shot and how many were targeted.
The DWR acknowledges that they are very hard to identify and are easily mistaken for tundra.
The only person I know who has shot one didn't know it was a trumpeter when he shot it. Four Swans came into his decoys. They were all similar size. He shot one and it ended up being a trumpeter. That was four years ago. He is an experienced waterfowl hunter and he couldn't tell the difference.
Most likely it will be 10 years before they hunt them again. 5 year waiting period plus it will probably take 5 plus years to draw again the way things are going. In my opinion that’s pretty substantial if it’s accidental. If it’s deliberate that’s another story.They should make it a 10-year waiting period for shooting a trumpeter, and a lifetime ban for someone who deliberately targets them. At least until the trumpeters make full comeback.
What would a full comeback look like?They should make it a 10-year waiting period for shooting a trumpeter, and a lifetime ban for someone who deliberately targets them. At least until the trumpeters make full comeback.
What would a full comeback look like?
Right now, there are over 60,000 Trumpeter swans. Shooting 20 is .0003% of the population.
I agree that people shouldn't target them, but I bet it would be tough to pass one up.
this guy is an idiot for posting how deliberate and intentional his trumpeter swan harvest was.
This hunt is controversial with non-hunters. Stuff like this doesn’t paint a good picture for waterfowlers at all! I am glad he helped many other people harvest birds. I am also happy I got my tundra before the closure this year!
Right, right!! If it’s as easy to differentiate them as a Mallard and a Teal or an Elk and a Deer why the orientation course? Why wouldn’t they make it illegal to shoot one if it’s so easy to tell them apart?Not that hard. Sitting in my truck tonight I've had 500+ cross me.
It's just the modern " sportsmen" ethic. F everyone, I got mine for the Gram
Right, right!! If it’s as easy to differentiate them as a Mallard and a Teal or an Elk and a Deer why the orientation course? Why wouldn’t they make it illegal to shoot one if it’s so easy to tell them apart?
I would say the Trumpeter population increasing is the biggest reason for it.They don't want to penalize accidents. Same reason they have bear courses.
It's not coincidence that with the IG, FB, Snap, suddenly the quota is getting hit yearly, and earlier.
The DWR acknowleged this in their RAC meeting when they made the waiting period for shooting a trumpeter. The quota used to be 10. Then they increased it to 20. Maybe it's time to increase it to 40 or 50 seeing the Trumpeters numbers are increasing every year.I would say the Trumpeter population increasing is the biggest reason for it.
I would say the Trumpeter population increasing is the biggest reason for it.
You say the quota is being reached for Instagram, Facebook, etc. fame and that is the reason the season is getting shut down early. So I figured that was your point? ?You realize that's the whole point right? That's WHY we have a quota. To establish populations here, and throughout the flyway.
Dude LITERALLY posts that he targeted one, and you try to deny it and claim accident?
He's shooting decoying swans not pass overs at 50yrds. So he's watched them come in, watched them circle, watched them set their wings, watched them drop their legs. But can't see OR HEAR the difference?
Or, maybe, he spent "6full days" trying to pop a Trump?
100% agree with that!The unintentional taking of a Trumpeter is understandable. The intentional taking of a Trumpeter Swan should be a crime.
In 1968 they estimated only 3,700 trumpeters remained… Now they’re near 65,000, so they’re making a strong comeback….I don’t know crap about them!
Why is that breed so special?
Exactly!The unintentional taking of a Trumpeter is understandable. The intentional taking of a Trumpeter Swan should be a crime.
Exactly!
I would bet 99.% of hunters couldn’t tell the difference between either when they are in the air.
I’ve seen them shot here in ND by people claiming they were snow geese (kinda understand), cranes (??), and worst of all honker (??). People are significantly dumber than one can imagine.Exactly!
I would bet 99.% of hunters couldn’t tell the difference between either when they are in the air.
You say the quota is being reached for Instagram, Facebook, etc. fame and that is the reason the season is getting shut down early. So I figured that was your point? ?
I don’t believe I ever denied that the guy in the photo targeted a Trumpeter??
I never claimed his was accidental??
What I have said is it is difficult to differentiate between the two and accidents do happen!
You however claim it’s like comparing an elk and a deer or a mallard vs. a teal. Then you say “I’ve passed several because I wasn’t sure”. Which is it??
The intentional taking of a Trumpeter Swan should be a crime.
Bingo. It comes to more location than anything. I promise you hossy would get a trumpeter if he was hunting another area…I don’t think it’s merely coincidental that the only 4 years we have ever hit the quota coincide with the only 4 years PSG has been a part of the swan hunting area.
Take PSG back out of the area and you take care of a large part of this issue. There will still be trumps killed and some will do so intentionally, but it’s no secret that the trumps congregate at PSG for some reason. Just remove it like it was pre-2019 and see what happens to the trump killing numbers.
I would like to see it handled slightly different.The unintentional taking of a Trumpeter is understandable. The intentional taking of a Trumpeter Swan should be a crime.
This…I don’t think it’s merely coincidental that the only 4 years we have ever hit the quota coincide with the only 4 years PSG has been a part of the swan hunting area.
Take PSG back out of the area and you take care of a large part of this issue. There will still be trumps killed and some will do so intentionally, but it’s no secret that the trumps congregate at PSG for some reason. Just remove it like it was pre-2019 and see what happens to the trump killing numbers.
The fact that it's a maximum quota, and not a season, is the proof the species requires it.Why?
If the species required this, I’d be all for it. But the very fact that they allow a buffer, and the buffer/quota was even recently doubled more than suggests the species doesn’t require such a crime to be associated with killing one, even intentionally.
So I ask again, why should it be a crime?
I really, really want a bald eagle mount.I would like to see it handled slightly different.
I would like any ‘hunter’ that has at least one Swan kill under their belt and kills a Trumpeter to lose their waterfowling priveliges for one year.
It still allows someone to kill their ‘prized’ Trumpeter but now they are having their hunting stopped also.
If killing a Trumpeter is so special to them then it is worth it right?
It is BS that .07% of Swan tag holders can make such a selfish decision to have the power to stop 1000 hunters from continuing their hunt.
I don’t think it’s merely coincidental that the only 4 years we have ever hit the quota coincide with the only 4 years PSG has been a part of the swan hunting area.
Take PSG back out of the area and you take care of a large part of this issue. There will still be trumps killed and some will do so intentionally, but it’s no secret that the trumps congregate at PSG for some reason. Just remove it like it was pre-2019 and see what happens to the trump killing numbers.
Bingo. It comes to more location than anything. I promise you hossy would get a trumpeter if he was hunting another area…
The fact that it's a maximum quota, and not a season, is the proof the species requires it.
If that was the case, they'd have a limited Trumpeter season up to that maximum level.
As an analogy... Society allows justified homicide in certain circumstances, but if a court finds you intentionally went into that situation looking for a fight, the outcome will likely be very different. That's also why we have manslaughter as opposed to varying degrees of homicide, intention matters. It's the same situation here.
Why take a beautiful area to hunt away from thousands of hunters just due to some selfish people?
You know my feelings on this, but I’ll share again anyway. You’re only shutting it down for swans, just like it was forever before 2019. Duck and goose hunters go have your fun, but for swans, this area is very well known to hold the largest concentration of trumps. (Hence- why it was always closed before!) I’d wager the vast majority of people that hit PSG for swans are at least hoping for a shot at a trump, even if they aren’t holding out for one. Of course that isn’t everyone, but most of the swan hunters are not hunting PSG anyway, so closing it really is focused on closing an area that those few you mention are frequenting specifically to kill trumps.
Just so we are clear- I would not go out personally to specifically target a trump, tundras are plenty cool enough for me. That said, I don’t know what I’d do if I had one feet down hanging in the decoys and it’s perfectly legal to shoot that bird. I’ve passed on an awful lot of animals over the years I could have legally killed, so maybe I pass on that one too? I don’t know, maybe I’d kill it, maybe I wouldn’t. If I did, it certainly would not be illegal, but I understand why it makes it tough for other hunters.
It’s an easy call to say I won’t go out targeting them. It’s not as easy if it is incidental, even if not accidental. I do think the state has the ability to make a change here if they really want to. I’m not sure the state is all that concerned about hitting the 20, but we’ll see at the upcoming waterfowl RAC and Board meetings!
I had two Trumpeters in my spreads this year and passed on them so my fellow hunters could continue to hunt Tundras.You know my feelings on this, but I’ll share again anyway. You’re only shutting it down for swans, just like it was forever before 2019. Duck and goose hunters go have your fun, but for swans, this area is very well known to hold the largest concentration of trumps. (Hence- why it was always closed before!) I’d wager the vast majority of people that hit PSG for swans are at least hoping for a shot at a trump, even if they aren’t holding out for one. Of course that isn’t everyone, but most of the swan hunters are not hunting PSG anyway, so closing it really is focused on closing an area that those few you mention are frequenting specifically to kill trumps.
Just so we are clear- I would not go out personally to specifically target a trump, tundras are plenty cool enough for me. That said, I don’t know what I’d do if I had one feet down hanging in the decoys and it’s perfectly legal to shoot that bird. I’ve passed on an awful lot of animals over the years I could have legally killed, so maybe I pass on that one too? I don’t know, maybe I’d kill it, maybe I wouldn’t. If I did, it certainly would not be illegal, but I understand why it makes it tough for other hunters.
It’s an easy call to say I won’t go out targeting them. It’s not as easy if it is incidental, even if not accidental. I do think the state has the ability to make a change here if they really want to. I’m not sure the state is all that concerned about hitting the 20, but we’ll see at the upcoming waterfowl RAC and Board meetings!
You don't even realize you walked into a trap of your own making. I knew you would and you stepped right into it. Your argument that it's okay to hunt Trumpeters is because the Fed's allow a quota and therefore there must be enough to hunt them legally.The species does NOT require the intentional taking of a trump to be a crime. That’s hogwash and you know it. If that was the case, it would be so. The feds aren’t shy about protecting species that need protection. If 20 birds was going to cause problems for the species, they wouldn’t have allowed Utah to increase the quota from 10. And if 10 birds was going to be a problem, they wouldn’t have had our quota higher than Nevada’s 5. This is such a silly illogical statement above!
Yeah, because all species that could easily be subjected to a hunt very easily have limited options available for hunting. Ever heard of wolves and grizzlies in the lower 48? It’s almost like people watch this stuff for a living, or something?
I can go with your analogy- because it’s a giant swing and a miss. All the talk of homicide and intention is great, except for intentionally killing a trumpeter is not illegal during the swan season in Utah. Those other things are illegal because killing people in and of itself is bad, so we have laws to punish those that do it. I know you want to make it but a crime to kill a trump here, but it isn’t so now. If you want to equate killing a bird with homicide, be my guest. It still doesn’t tell us WHY it needs to be a crime. Why does intentionally shooting a trumpeter swan during the Utah swan hunt need to be a crime? You’re entitled to you option, I just want to understand how and why you’ve arrived at that opinion. The explanation above doesn’t even try to do so. So I’ll ask again: Why does the intentional shooting of a trump during the Utah swan season need to be a crime?
I don't think anyone is pretending they are hurting population numbers.
OK!
I Think The DWR Should Start Some PISSCUTTER Hunts In LE Units!
I'm Not Talking F'N Spike Hunts!
I'm Talking Medium Sized PISSCUTTERS!
And If You Accidentally Shoot a Trophy Bull Let's Treat It Like This Trumpeter Deal!
Just Count It as part of the QUOTA Because Accidents Do & Will Happen!
How Bout It Niller?
There is a large study going on right now to see if these birds being killed in Utah are even from the Yellowstone group or not. Many people think these birds are coming from Alaska/Canada, and are not even part of the protected numbers in the greater Yellowstone area. If that ends up being the case, you might see the quota go away entirely, if not significantly increased. Then again, you might not. What we know for now is everyone that is privy to all the data believes that 20 trumps can get killed in Utah every year without any risk to the population overall, and therefore, they have made it LEGAL to kill up to 20 trumps each year in our state.
I'd suggest going back and reading Grizz's retort to me when he mistakenly thought he was fishing for an answer. I'll let you come to your own conclusion on what he's arguing, as he doesn't seem to want to answer my very simple question to his very zealous opinion on the intentional taking of a trumpeter needs to be a crime. There really is only one rational reason, and that's if we need to protect the species with strict enforcement. For a long time that was the case with trumpeters and other species like wolves and grizzlies. For sure with wolves and grizzlies that is no longer the case. Stay tuned on the trumps!
I WISH they would publish a list of Trump shooters, then I would know who not to share my blind lunch with.I agree with you. But, as has been stated, notice the Trib headline isn't about the great work done by waterfowl biologists in growing populations and expanding their territory.
We as sportsmen shouldn't be about the bare minimum all the time, and should pull our heads out of our asses and not write the bad PR we get, along with multiple pics to go with it.
Almost as bad as the OP pic, and hero narrative, is the 150 likes he got.
But no, it shouldn't be a crime. Public shaming should happen, let's see a yearly list published of Trump shooters on top of the 5 year hit
Public Shaming. LOL Maybe they should be Flogged also.I agree with you. But, as has been stated, notice the Trib headline isn't about the great work done by waterfowl biologists in growing populations and expanding their territory.
We as sportsmen shouldn't be about the bare minimum all the time, and should pull our heads out of our asses and not write the bad PR we get, along with multiple pics to go with it.
Almost as bad as the OP pic, and hero narrative, is the 150 likes he got.
But no, it shouldn't be a crime. Public shaming should happen, let's see a yearly list published of Trump shooters on top of the 5 year hit
I think the difference is the quota for Swan's is a safe guard to keep from to many Trumps being killed while also allowing the hunting of tundra's. They don't want any Trumps to be killed, but due to the nature of difficulties associated with telling the two apart the quota was put in place to allow swan hunting.What's the difference in a quota for Trumpeter Swans and a quota for say lions or bears?
Arizona just implemented a quota for deer on some units.
Seems to me it's working the way it's supposed to work. Just because some people didn't get swans doesn't mean they didn't have plenty of opportunity to get out if they really wanted to. Same as any other hunt that has a quota.
I can't read it as I'm not a subscriber to the Trib, but I can say that I would never expect a hunter friendly article to come from that quack of a paper.
I get what you are saying on not writing the stories for them, and I agree. I'm also not at all concerned about what antis have to say, and I'm not interested in discussing the issue with them. The Trib is not our friend.
Zero trumpeters and only 2 tundra.I think the difference is the quota for Swan's is a safe guard to keep from to many Trumps being killed while also allowing the hunting of tundra's. They don't want any Trumps to be killed, but due to the nature of difficulties associated with telling the two apart the quota was put in place to allow swan hunting.
When they put quotas on lions and bears they are intending on only killing that many lions or bears. With swans as many tundra can be killed as there are tags for, but they still want to protect the Trumps. It's kinda like saying you can kill as many black bears as you want. But as soon as a grizzly gets killed the season is over. (This is a general over simplification obviously)
How many Trumps have you killed elkantlers? You seem to be awfully defensive of the guys targeting them.
Zero trumpeters and only 2 tundra.
I've already said I don't agree with the people that target them specifically. I also said it would be pretty tough to pass one up.
I just think some of you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Trumpeters are in no way endangered. The quota could be 10x what it is and it wouldn't hurt their population.
The DWR already addressed this and put a 5-year waiting period on them. So, these 20 people that shot Trumpeters will in all likely hood not be hunting swans for 8 to 10 years.
That's more time than people that shoot a elk or deer illegally usually get.
Also, Usually, but not always, quotas on lions and bears have a set number of bears or a set number of females killed. If they hit either of those numbers, the hunt is ended and whoever hasn't filled their tags is SOL. Same as Swans. If you want a swan next year, you best not procrastinate. The way Trumpeters numbers are growing, I don't see this hunt going past the middle of November any time soon. Hopefully they just increase the quota to match the population.
You got me. I do like spikes.Better hurry and shoot that spike suckling off that doe, cuz otherwise you won't get your IG likes
You know how pissed off the rest of the bear hunters get when the female quotas was met? They aren't happy about it I can guarantee that.Zero trumpeters and only 2 tundra.
I've already said I don't agree with the people that target them specifically. I also said it would be pretty tough to pass one up.
I just think some of you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Trumpeters are in no way endangered. The quota could be 10x what it is and it wouldn't hurt their population.
The DWR already addressed this and put a 5-year waiting period on them. So, these 20 people that shot Trumpeters will in all likely hood not be hunting swans for 8 to 10 years.
That's more time than people that shoot a elk or deer illegally usually get.
Also, Usually, but not always, quotas on lions and bears have a set number of bears or a set number of females killed. If they hit either of those numbers, the hunt is ended and whoever hasn't filled their tags is SOL. Same as Swans. If you want a swan next year, you best not procrastinate. The way Trumpeters numbers are growing, I don't see this hunt going past the middle of November any time soon. Hopefully they just increase the quota to match the population.
They can be happy, sad, mad or whatever. No concern of mine. The law is the law and shooting Trumpeters is legal in Utah. I guarantee that very few hunters are going to pass up a trumpeter given the opportunity.You know how pissed off the rest of the bear hunters get when the female quotas was met? They aren't happy about it I can guarantee that.
As I said earlier I'm not a waterfowl guy, only reason I have a shotgun is for coyote's. It's no sweat off my back how this turns out. But if I was and it took 2-3 years to draw a tag and dudes are out targeting them especially early in the season it's a d!ck move. If the season is getting close to ending that's one thing, but early in the season just sucks.
Hopefully the UDWR makes it a Tundra only hunt.Zero trumpeters and only 2 tundra.
I've already said I don't agree with the people that target them specifically. I also said it would be pretty tough to pass one up.
I just think some of you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Trumpeters are in no way endangered. The quota could be 10x what it is and it wouldn't hurt their population.
The DWR already addressed this and put a 5-year waiting period on them. So, these 20 people that shot Trumpeters will in all likely hood not be hunting swans for 8 to 10 years.
That's more time than people that shoot a elk or deer illegally usually get.
Also, Usually, but not always, quotas on lions and bears have a set number of bears or a set number of females killed. If they hit either of those numbers, the hunt is ended and whoever hasn't filled their tags is SOL. Same as Swans. If you want a swan next year, you best not procrastinate. The way Trumpeters numbers are growing, I don't see this hunt going past the middle of November any time soon. Hopefully they just increase the quota to match the population.
Only for the guys that target them. ?They can be happy, sad, mad or whatever. No concern of mine. The law is the law and shooting Trumpeters is legal in Utah. I guarantee that very few hunters are going to pass up a trumpeter given the opportunity.
This is directly from the DWR News release.
"Utah's swan hunt requires a permit, which is only available through a hunt drawing, and 2,750 permits were offered this year. Hunters with a permit can legally take one trumpeter or tundra swan".
Utah's swan hunt closes early for 4th consecutive year after federal harvest limit for trumpeter swans met
Utah's swan hunting season has closed 24 days early after the federal quota of 20 trumpeter swans was met on Nov. 17. This is the fourth consecutive year that the swan hunt had to be closed early.wildlife.utah.gov
If the powers that be really want to put a stop to this, they need to add a monetary fine to the 5-year waiting period. $500 if you shoot a trumpeter might discourage a few more people.
I feel ya Hoss, I’m just not writing waterfowl hunters obituary because people did something legal that was anticipated in the regulations. And I’m certainly not fretting a salt lake tribune article.
And I’m not buying that the DWR doesn’t want trumps killed because they opened in 2019, and keep open, the unit where the vast majority of them are killed. This is common knowledge and well-known. You want a trump? Head to PSG for a swan hunt. Otherwise, your chances are drastically reduced.
I know they have to say publicly “We strong discourage this!,” but do they really if they leave PSG open in the swan unit? Does anyone really want this shooting of trumps to stop if they are okay with PSG being open to swan hunting? Even accidental take is going to increase on this factor alone.
It’s unfortunate the season got shut down. I’d be upset if I had a swan tag this year and hadn’t made it out yet, but I can’t get myself too outraged with guys doing something 100% legal and allowed. It does bug me that people are specifically targeting them, but my outrage isn’t to your level.
But unlike you. I'm pretty sure WHO got PSG opened. If your not sure look at who got their own goose unit, without a split because booking days are $$$.
Big swans pay.
Had me laughing out loud on this one Bess ???Most DRATS:
It's A Plane!
It's a Bird!
BOOM!
F##K!
It's a Trumpeter!
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