I think that we need to pay close attention to the numbers and the management. We can’t control3-5 years with mild winters, good moisture, and reduced tags during that time.
If the GF and weather don't cooperate, maybe never.
I keep hearing it won't take pronghorn long to recover, but look at the tag numbers from the mid 90's to mid 2000's.
I think there's some areas they never will bounce back to what they were.
@jm77 and I were talking about this just a couple days ago. He has lived here longer and seen more than I have...
57/58 were hammered. Look at the tag allocations being proposed, and many people think they should go further…I'm at Max points guys, was thinking this year I'd pull the trigger on 58 maybe 57. I'm bummed, health stuff has got me thinking I need to hunt soon. I would appreciate from those in the know your thoughts. Pm if you prefer. Thanks Jim
Tag cuts are gonna send things through the roof. Yes the demand might go down a bit from people who follow things, but the supply (tag numbers) is gonna drop a bunch so the odds will get way way worse. The real problem is in 3-4 years when the numbers are coming back and they decide to shoot the hell out of them again and there’s two entire years of no age structure from lost fawns this winter and aborted fawns this spring. That’s when it’ll really hurt and that’s about when most people forget about a bad winter.I'm thinking it will be a good year to get into some of the units you may be a point or so behind in. That's my plan. I guess I will see how it pans out.
I can tell you now I'm gonna be a constant voice for keeping tag numbers low for the next few years at least, draw odds won't be goodOn a positive note, it takes 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years to produce B&C antelope bucks. With great conditions and habitat it doesn’t take long for bucks to return. With antelope numbers and habitat in most areas already in the toilet it make take years for things to change…if ever.
If there are several years with decent moisture and habitat responds to great moisture the process could be speeded up.
That's when we'll really know what happened. Be able to see how many critters are under the snow when it meltsNext couple weeks weather looks good, it might be over finally, the valleys and the red desert will be free from snow other than the drifts very soon at least, but they had a really rough 5 1/2 months this year out there.
Yeah just getting into these areas is not very possible… what we can see from the areas we can access is really bad looking…That's when we'll really know what happened. Be able to see how many critters are under the snow when it melts
That's why I was referring to when the snow meltsYeah just getting into these areas is not very possible… what we can see from the areas we can access is really bad looking…
The western 1/2 of area 58 did not get it as bad as everything else around it.57/58 were hammered. Look at the tag allocations being proposed, and many people think they should go further…
They are only offering 50 tags total in one unit. A guy used to be able to sit and camp and see 20 bucks. Sorry but I would feel it will be a real roll of the dice… it is hard to know what will be left, what the age structure will look like and what the buck to doe ratios end up like. Both those units tended to have an older age class of bucks. As a result the bucks might have been even more susceptible to the winter… I would suggest watching the season setting for Baggs, and the Zoom meeting with the Governor. Both will give you perspective on the situation.
If I was sitting at max points I don’t know that I would gamble with them if your goal is to harvest a large mature buck I would be holding out and seeing what things look like next year…
Yep. I was in 63 a year or so after they started that and there were people hauling truckloads of antelope out, mostly does. No way the resource can sustain that.The big turning point in my opinion was when they decided everyone could get 4 doe and 2 buck tags that's when everything started going downhill and fast. Used to be leftover buck and doe tags in allot of areas until then. Hasn't been the same since
A 1.5 year old buck that survived a bad winter was a fawn that made it through. If 2/3 of the total pronghorn died, most of the bucks you were seeing wouldn't be 1.5 years old. The fawns typically don't make a hard winter like that.A few winters ago was the same deep snow in a localized are along I80 near Rawlins. My buddies and I had tags that year. My guess is that around 2/3 of the antelope winter killed. It took a lot more time for us to find decent bucks but all of us got bucks in the 76 to 80” range.
Most of the bucks we saw were young 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year olds that survived the winter. The younger bucks had great mass but short horned. We hardly saw any bucks older than 2 1/2. It’s been a couple winters since that winterkill episode and numbers have never recovered from that decline but there have been a few awesome bucks available the past year or so.
My guess is most of the older age class bucks are likely dead in areas with deep snow. There have been a fraction of antelope across Wyo going into this winter. Now add onto that scenario the fact there is super bad winterkill in central to western Wyo. You may have to hunt super hard to find the few older age bucks that exist and survived this winter. You’ll have to search even more country to find an 80+” buck even in the top units.
How is it you can ascertain the age of an antelope?Ok you are absolutely right buzz! I’m not sure what I was thinking.
They were almost entirely 2 1/2 year old bucks. Not hardly any bucks over or under that age with all having horns less than 13”. It will be interesting to see if that same thing is true. Should be able to know as soon as the drifts are passable.
You can age up to 4 yr by the teeth, incisors are replaced to age 4 1/2 and hence can be aged in the field by which incisors are replaced.How is it you can ascertain the age of an antelope?
What tools does the Game and Fish have to do massive habitat improvements. All I see is them due is talk and study, talk and study. How many acres has the Game and Fish actually improved say over the last 50 years?
I know here by my house we have done massive timber cuts, they are currently doing large scaleWhat tools does the Game and Fish have to do massive habitat improvements. All I see is them due is talk and study, talk and study. How many acres has the Game and Fish actually improved say over the last 50 years?
I think he meant aging them on the hoof.You can age up to 4 yr by the teeth, incisors are replaced to age 4 1/2 and hence can be aged in the field by which incisors are replaced.
Cementum tooth aging also works well, lab aging.
In most cases, the habitat improvements I've seen in central Wyoming benefit elk more than any other species.I know here by my house we have done massive timber cuts, they are currently doing large scale
Weed spraying and massive cheat grass
Projects.
I think the exact opposite will happen. Those that have researched the winter kill and want to hunt will apply where it wasn't bad- increasing point creep in those areas. Those that didn't research will apply blindly so point creep, because of massive reductions, will be bad in those areas as well. It is just all in all a terrible year to apply but it isn't going to get any better for a few years.I'm thinking it will be a good year to get into some of the units you may be a point or so behind in. That's my plan. I guess I will see how it pans out.
Possible. In the short term a lot of treatment will likely benefit elk as the first species to really increase are the perennial grasses and smaller things, but as time move on and natural succession occurs the treatments should definitely help and favor deer.In most cases, the habitat improvements I've seen in central Wyoming benefit elk more than any other species.
Thank you for the info.
This should keep you busy for a while.
Live animals? That would be a best guess based on body size and maybe some other traits.I think he meant aging them on the hoof.
Will be a ton of these videos before long.
kinda off subject but still inline with the topic i find it amazing how the antelope in Yellowstone Park survive with the amount of snow they get. They must migrate to an area in the park that gives them a good food source.
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.