Technology Changes

slamdunk

slamdunk

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The new Technology Committee is now on their 3rd meeting and gathering input through social media and drawing up a public survey soon to be implemented.
The focus and objective goals are to decrease success rates as to offer more opportunity with "Fair Chase" in mind for each respective weapon category and season.

With changes undoubtedly coming to Utah's hunting, share your "SERIOUS" thoughts and your logical input on all three weapons, even if you don't use all three.
This is weapon and gadgets only, not season dates.

Keep the HAMS hunts in mind as these were created to be very low success rates due to limited weapon capabilities and are being discussed to tweak these choices down even further.
Example: muzzleloader types for regular season versus HAMS hunts, "primitive versus modern".

Again, please keep sarcastic and weapon bashing comments off this thread, this will not be a gripe session.
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Can't wait to comment and see the other poster's comments but I have to go hike a mountain right now... which is more important than gadgetry, to me, .....even though I like my LR rifle goodies..

Zeke
 
Archery....traditional or compound bows.....max 4 pin sites, no electrical anything

Muzzle loader....no optics

Rifle....max 10x scopes, fixed or variable. No Turrets....10# max total for rifle....

and yes, I know....technically all scopes have turrets....
 
If You're Taking Optics Completely Away From SmokePoles!

You're gonna Have a Maximum of a 3X Fixed Power On Rifles!



Homer said:
Archery....traditional or compound bows.....max 4 pin sites, no electrical anything

Muzzle loader....no optics

Rifle....max 10x scopes, fixed or variable. No Turrets....10# max total for rifle....

and yes, I know....technically all scopes have turrets....
Click to expand...
 
Homer said:
Archery....traditional or compound bows.....max 4 pin sites, no electrical anything

Muzzle loader....no optics

Rifle....max 10x scopes, fixed or variable. No Turrets....10# max total for rifle....

and yes, I know....technically all scopes have turrets....
Click to expand...
So I guess my 45-70 Shilo is out!!
10 lbs for a field ready rifle is not that much.
 
So?

A 38 LB 50 is No Longer Allowed?

Homer said:
Archery....traditional or compound bows.....max 4 pin sites, no electrical anything

Muzzle loader....no optics

Rifle....max 10x scopes, fixed or variable. No Turrets....10# max total for rifle....

and yes, I know....technically all scopes have turrets....
Click to expand...
 
I Expect To See Some Kind of Lil Ole PISSCUTTER Change That Won't Do SQUAT To Help Our Suffering Deer Herd!

May Run it for a 10-15 Year Study!
 
Interesting thread considering it is nearly impossible to find information concerning said committee and what is being discussed.

Yes you can attend in person. How many did? No comments allowed.

Hardly worth a 2 hour trip to just listen.

Yes we will eventually see what the recommendations might be. But at this time this is nothing but a witch hunt.
 
Leave archery alone
Leave muzzy alone
Restrict rifle to fixed 6x scope

Only limit the highest success rate weapon if you are trying to limit success....duh.

Been down this road before. I'm with Bess this gets tiresome.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Leave archery alone
Leave muzzy alone
Restrict rifle to fixed 6x scope

Only limit the highest success rate weapon if you are trying to limit success....duh.

Been down this road before. I'm with Bess this gets tiresome.
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You're not with bess or you would be agreeing on all weapon restrictions, but you are not.
 
middlefork said:
Interesting thread considering it is nearly impossible to find information concerning said committee and what is being discussed.

Yes you can attend in person. How many did? No comments allowed.

Hardly worth a 2 hour trip to just listen.

Yes we will eventually see what the recommendations might be. But at this time this is nothing but a witch hunt.
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The committee process isn't public attendance.

They are recommendations sent to the RACS for public discussion.
 
-Eliminate bows of all kinds
-Eliminate muzzleloaders of all kinds
-Eliminate rifles of all kinds.

If you wanna hunt pick up a stone. Let’s put the hunt back into hunting. All members of PETA agree???
 
slamdunk said:
You're not with bess or you would be agreeing on all weapon restrictions, but you are not.
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I'm with Bess in that I'm sick and tired of government overreach telling me how I can and can't hunt. You asked about limiting success rates, my input is limit the rifle hunters. They kill the most. Is that clear enough Slam where I stand in giving my public input?
 
Bigwiffy said:
I'm with Bess in that I'm sick and tired of government overreach telling me how I can and can't hunt. You asked about limiting success rates, my input is limit the rifle hunters. They kill the most. Is that clear enough Slam where I stand in giving my public input?
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When you can show me where bess is even remotely complaining about "government overreach" I'll eat my hat.
He's saying quite the opposite.

He's demanding equality across the board......pay attention please.
 
And The Rifle Crowd Acts Like 9-10 X is a Big Cut!

I Know!

It Basically Is!



grizzly said:
Archery - Fixed broadheads, no slider sights, 5 pin max

Muzzleloader - see: Idaho regulations

Rifle - 9x max magnification scope, no electronics on firearm/scope, no custom markings on turrets
Click to expand...
 
I dont hunt Utah- so no dog in the hunt- but what about rangefinders? If you are limiting scopes, bow power, etc- that is effectively to reduce range.
 
slamdunk said:
The committee process isn't public attendance.

They are recommendations sent to the RACS for public discussion.
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You can attend. If you know the dates and time they meet.

Public input is not accepted. I get that.

So why start a conversation about it when nobody has information yet about what they are discussing. The only thing I have heard second hand is that they are still trying to come up with a mission statement.
 
I hope everyone understands if set up right the 5 pin sight you can still achieve 100 yard shot no problem.
Stacking pins is very common for archer's.
I think a 60 yard single pin slider sight would be a great invention at least you can't stack any pin's.
 
slamdunk said:
It is compromised of about 15 individuals ranging from average Joe's, to outfitters/guides, law enforcement, biologists, other various committees, etc, etc.
Very broad range for a reason.
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Are you on the committee, Slamdunk?
 
slamdunk said:
When you can show me where bess is even remotely complaining about "government overreach" I'll eat my hat.
He's saying quite the opposite.

He's demanding equality across the board......pay attention please.
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Ok I won't speak for the cat, but this thread is a waste of time. Let me know when they restrict your Lapua to a fixed 6x scope and pull the rifle elk hunt out of the rut, then we can start talking reduced success rates.
 
Is the discussion on just weapon technology or is season dates, tags allocated per weapon, limiting motorized access, etc on the table as well?
I feel that scope magnification, # of pins, rangefinder ability is going to be on the honor system. -unenforceable.
But moving rifle elk out of the rut, strategically closing some (a few, not all) to provide areas of reduced pressure would provide more benefit to the herds than how much zoom Billy Bob can have on his gun.
 
mtnrunner260 said:
Is the discussion on just weapon technology or is season dates, tags allocated per weapon, limiting motorized access, etc on the table as well?
I feel that scope magnification, # of pins, rangefinder ability is going to be on the honor system. -unenforceable.
But moving rifle elk out of the rut, strategically closing some (a few, not all) to provide areas of reduced pressure would provide more benefit to the herds than how much zoom Billy Bob can have on his gun.
Click to expand...

With changes undoubtedly coming to Utah's hunting, share your "SERIOUS" thoughts and your logical input on all three weapons, even if you don't use all three.
This is weapon and gadgets only, not season dates.
 
Slam, Thanks for starting this thread. We all know something needs to be done.
I agree with it being equal across the board with all weapons.

Just remember everyone! We as hunters caused all of this mess. We all WANT the latest and greatest equipment to be successful. But we definitely don't NEED it. Look back in the old days.
 
mtnrunner260 said:
Is the discussion on just weapon technology or is season dates, tags allocated per weapon, limiting motorized access, etc on the table as well?
I feel that scope magnification, # of pins, rangefinder ability is going to be on the honor system. -unenforceable.
But moving rifle elk out of the rut, strategically closing some (a few, not all) to provide areas of reduced pressure would provide more benefit to the herds than how much zoom Billy Bob can have on his gun.
Click to expand...
Technology only
 
Homer said:
With changes undoubtedly coming to Utah's hunting, share your "SERIOUS" thoughts and your logical input on all three weapons, even if you don't use all three.
This is weapon and gadgets only, not season dates.
Click to expand...
Thanks Homer for the clarification I'll add restricting gadgets such as Californians and Vegasites to my list to ban.
 
elkassassin said:
For The Billionth Time!

It's Gonna Be:

ALL GAVE SOME!

Not:

SOME GAVE ALL!
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Rifle isn't giving up anything except maybe a weight limit like Idaho says 15 or 17 lb max...no manufacturer is going to make a scope for just Utah. Capped turrets can be used the same as uncapped turrets and you'd have to limit reticle types on scopes too...not going to happen.
 
Archery: No electronic sights. Consider no slider, 4 pins max only. Would be really cool to have a traditional only season like Oregon set before regular archery or later in the rut.

Muzzy: no scopes, no smokeless, consider Idaho rules. Probably the biggest area of technological advancement that is not in the spirit of primitive weapons and rubs guys the wrong way.

Rifle: hard to make this one happen. If anything limit ballistic calculating rangefinders…makes it easier than knowing dopes and being able to adjust for atmospherics and wind. Scopes….hard to fix this. Plenty of guys can shoot 1000 yards with a fixed 6x…effective has much much more to do with shooter skill than anything else. A dedicated long range hunter can practice with any set of technology (RF, scopes, bipod or not, etc) and is going to kill regardless. Any fool can dial their gunwerks and nightforce to 1000 yards and keep shooting while the deer stands there and bullets are missing by 5 feet and they are over gunned and can’t spot impacts, don’t understand the wind, have not validated drops, etc. it’s way more complex and skill dependent than the average joe realizes.
 
First, I fundamentally disagree with the philosophy the division is taking on this. Of course they want lower success rates... They can sell more tags and milk more money out of OUR natural resources. The opportunity narrative plays nicely into their finances. For us hunters, I get it... point creep sucks. I also think overcrowded hunting sucks regardless of weapon type. Its a trade off. For those who haven't experienced overcrowding, go to the Uintas during elk season (lots of opportunity). Very few elk and multitudes of people. Sorry, I had to get the gripe session out of my system first...

If you want to lower success rates its easy... first start with the weapons where success rates are super high. 1.Rifle first 2. Muzzle next 3. Archery last.

I don't support any of these but they will work...

Rifle - Limit/remove scopes and take away range finders. You could also consider magazine capacity restrictions.
Muzzle - Go back to peep sites and/or outlaw inlines. Cap and ball only. Again, no range finders.
Archery - Take away sliders and rangefinders. Or recurve only.
Trucks/ATVs - Only allow walk in access only.
Spotting Scopes/Binoculars - Outlawed. Only use your eyeballs.
Clothes/boots - Limit to t shirt and pants. Warm clothes and camo is unfair advantage. Tennis shoes only.
GPS or OnX - Nope. Use the stars for navigation.
Packs - Outlawed. Fanny packs only.

This technology committee is opening up a can of worms IMO...
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Slam, Thanks for starting this thread. We all know something needs to be done.
I agree with it being equal across the board with all weapons.

Just remember everyone! We as hunters caused all of this mess. We all WANT the latest and greatest equipment to be successful. But we definitely don't NEED it. Look back in the old days.
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What is the "mess" you taking about? I think this whole thing has been blown up out of proportion starting with trail cams.
 
What a can of worms!

This "limiting technology" is a feel-good exercise designed to take the place of game management and sell MORE tags and create MORE crowding.
I suppose we shall see if the little butt-hurt folks get their way.

1- Manage hunters with tag numbers, not technology!
2- Manage wildlife with proper biology and habitat rehab.

Sorry Slam, limits on hunters comes back to game management and tag numbers, no other way around it.

Zeke
 
Zeke said:
What a can of worms!

This "limiting technology" is a feel-good exercise designed to take the place of game management and sell MORE tags and create MORE crowding.
I suppose we shall see if the little butt-hurt folks get their way.

1- Manage hunters with tag numbers, not technology!
2- Manage wildlife with proper biology and habitat rehab.

Sorry Slam, limits on hunters comes back to game management and tag numbers, no other way around it.

Zeke
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1000% agree @Zeke Very well said.
 
Zeke said:
What a can of worms!

This "limiting technology" is a feel-good exercise designed to take the place of game management and sell MORE tags and create MORE crowding.
I suppose we shall see if the little butt-hurt folks get their way.

1- Manage hunters with tag numbers, not technology!
2- Manage wildlife with proper biology and habitat rehab.

Sorry Slam, limits on hunters comes back to game management and tag numbers, no other way around it.

Zeke
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It's all good feedback regardless.
It's not my rules or my policies, it's extremely collective.
 
Gotta love the misinformation regarding the Utah LE Elk rut hunt as being the 'big issue'. Go look at the data yourself, the September rifle rut success rate is generally a couple % points higher than the late rifle elk hunt. Not enough to even matter but that rut hunt sure pisses off stick flippers for whatever reason. I don't know why folks think moving it will solve the world's problems. I'm just tired of the bullshit

2021 Data:
Manti Early Rifle Success: 80.3%
Manti Late Rifle Success: 84.1%

Wasatch Early Rifle Success: 70.2%
Wasatch Late Rifle Success: 65.0%

Fish Lake Early Rifle Success: 85.7%
Fish Lake Late Rifle Success: 88.5%
 
Airborne said:
Gotta love the misinformation regarding the Utah LE Elk rut hunt as being the 'big issue'. Go look at the data yourself, the September rifle rut success rate is generally a couple % points higher than the late rifle elk hunt. Not enough to even matter but that rut hunt sure pisses of stick flippers for whatever reason. I don't know why folks think moving it will solve the world's problems. I'm just tired of the bullshit

2021 Data:
Manti Early Rifle Success: 80.3%
Manti Late Rifle Success: 84.1%

Wasatch Early Rifle Success: 70.2%
Wasatch Late Rifle Success: 65.0%

Fish Lake Early Rifle Success: 85.7%
Fish Lake Late Rifle Success: 88.5%
Click to expand...
Hahaha I'm tired of it too. Move it to the middle of October and see what the success rates look like. Thanks for validating the issue. Do away with the late hunt when the bulls should be recouping.
 
Bigwiffy said:
How do we form a committee to dissolve the wildlife board and allow our biologists to do their job?
Click to expand...
But wait a minute ?
Biologists are employed by the government, where did your "more government overreach" stance go all the sudden?

Are you now against public input on how the government is handling your public big game?

Personally I am happy the the DWR allows public involvement and don't understand why anyone wouldn't be?‍♂️
 
slamdunk said:
But wait a minute ?
Biologists are employed by the government, where did your "more government overreach" stance go all the sudden?

Are you now against public input on how the government is handling your public big game?

Personally I am happy the the DWR allows public involvement and don't understand why anyone wouldn't be?‍♂️
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Haha public input???? Crawl out from under that rock Slam. I had enough listening to the trail cam input and then ruling against the public. This is personal agendas we are discussing now and have been since Sneider started writing bills.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Haha public input???? Crawl out from under that rock Slam. I had enough listening to the trail cam input and then ruling against the public. This is personal agendas we are discussing now.
Click to expand...
It all boils down to “social issues” and no sound biology.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Haha public input???? Crawl out from under that rock Slam. I had enough listening to the trail cam input and then ruling against the public. This is personal agendas we are discussing now and have been since Sneider started writing bills.
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Hmmmm, interesting comment, especially since there has been far more public support against trail cameras than for keeping them which is why the bill passed.
SMH....?
 
slamdunk said:
Hmmmm, interesting comment, especially since there has been far more public support against trail cameras than for keeping them which is why the bill passed.
SMH....?
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Umm no, I disagree. There was some opposition but not far more support from those against trail cams. That’s a bold statement right there! I listened to public comment and in the end, the wildlife board did what they wanted to do regardless of public opinion, comments, or any concrete evidence to support their decision.

Let’s hope this “technology committee” does not make changes based on knee jerk reactions like it past cases.
 
shootem said:
Umm no, I disagree. There was some opposition but not far more support from those against trail cams. That’s a bold statement right there! I listened to public comment and in the end, the wildlife board did what they wanted to do regardless of public opinion, comments, or any concrete evidence to support their decision.

Let’s hope this “technology committee” does not make changes based on knee jerk reactions like it past cases.
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Ok, I'll retract my "far" from "more" and give you that.

This committee has spent dozens of personal hours studying every single surrounding states rules and regulations on technology that they implemented years ago before it got to where it is now in today's world.
They saw it coming and were proactive while Utah allowed anything and everything.

I can assure you that in the end, Utah will still be more relaxed than our surrounding neighbors are.
 
Is there any data to show what success rates were per weapon type vs even just 20 years ago?

I'd be surprised if they are all that different then what they are today, but I could be wrong.

That would help inform some opinions here.

Tech typically helps with improved range and accuracy. Regardless of what the tech maximum allowed is, you can't fix stupid. There will always be several people shooting at critters well beyond their CAPABLE range.

I'm ok with the tech in most instances, but I wouldn't mind the muzzy going back to a 1x scope or a red-dot. Would thin out the herd of those willing to pick up a smoke pole...as that's my favorite season to hunt deer in Utah.
 
copple2 said:
Is there any data to show what success rates were per weapon type vs even just 20 years ago?

I'd be surprised if they are all that different then what they are today, but I could be wrong.

That would help inform some opinions here.

Tech typically helps with improved range and accuracy. Regardless of what the tech maximum allowed is, you can't fix stupid. There will always be several people shooting at critters well beyond their CAPABLE range.

I'm ok with the tech in most instances, but I wouldn't mind the muzzy going back to a 1x scope or a red-dot. Would thin out the herd of those willing to pick up a smoke pole...as that's my favorite season to hunt deer in Utah.
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Yes we had data and there was a big spike in muzzleloader success in 2016 and gradually leveled out.
The biggest consensus on technology is how it has increased "cherry picking" of quality more so than success rates, but both are in the vision.
Guys are killing further with muzzleloaders than the 1x days, that is fact, but very few if any "long range" muzzy or rifle hunters are killing yearling bucks. $3000 weapons aren't purchased to kill 2 points, they are used in taking "trophy" animals because they are so far and few between in today's tech world.
 
I can see two big customer (hunters) dissatisfiers coming from broad reaching technology limitations. Assuming the technology limitations are almost assuredly to reduce effective range and thus harvest %:

1) A fairly large percentage of hunters will inadequately account for their greater limitations, resulting in even more wounded animals. Especially things that they have been using for many decades. In my case, except the rangefinder, nothing I use wasn't essentially available back in the 70s.

2) $XXX Millions of dollars of equipment will be rendered worthless. If rifle scopes were limited to 6X, every scope I own would not be allowed in Utah. That's $5000 of optics. Times 100,000 hunters, that's half a billion. (I know, not everyone runs Swaros, but you get the gist of it). I don't know chit about muzzies or bows- but assume there would be similarly bad financial impacts as well.

I get why some folks were upset over the trail cam bans (same in AZ)- but at least it was a fairly new technology (20 years) and generally they are cheaper than guns/bows/muzzies/scopes. And they certainly did not impact the ability to cleanly kill an animal.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Hahaha I'm tired of it too. Move it to the middle of October and see what the success rates look like. Thanks for validating the issue. Do away with the late hunt when the bulls should be recouping.
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We actually do have the Mid Season rifle success rates data:
Manti: 64.3%
Wasatch: 52.4%
Fish Lake: 56%

So what is your point again? You move all rifle hunts in October, have that be super crowded yet still have some very high success rates? Don't forget you also need to fit in the rifle deer hunt and the spike elk hunt which are also in October. I don't think the ole season shuffle is gonna solve whatever problem you think there is.

I just want guys who talk **** to know what they are talking about and make sense with the available data--probably a stretch on MM
 
Does anyone realize what technology is coming down the pipe into our near future?

Ever heard of "nano technology" glass already being tested by scope companies that allow vision in foggy conditions?

Where's the line in ethics and fair chase if this ridiculous stuff isn't minimized versus maximized?
 
slamdunk said:
Yes we had data and there was a big spike in muzzleloader success in 2016 and gradually leveled out.
The biggest consensus on technology is how it has increased "cherry picking" of quality more so than success rates, but both are in the vision.
Guys are killing further with muzzleloaders than the 1x days, that is fact, but very few if any "long range" muzzy or rifle hunters are killing yearling bucks. $3000 weapons aren't purchased to kill 2 points, they are used in taking "trophy" animals because they are so far and few between in today's tech world.
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So are they (you) saying that being selective (cherry packing) and targeting older class animals is BAD?

When a guy shoots a 2 point, everyone screams "let it grow up" and now when a guy shoots an older class animal, the same folka claim targeting? Dear Lord we are all so screwed!

Zeke
 
slamdunk said:
Does anyone realize what technology is coming down the pipe into our near future?

Ever heard of "nano technology" glass already being tested by scope companies that allow vision in foggy conditions?

Where's the line in ethics and fair chase if this ridiculous stuff isn't minimized versus maximized?
Click to expand...
Okay then. let's shut it off and not be hell-bent to roll it back.
 
Airborne said:
Gotta love the misinformation regarding the Utah LE Elk rut hunt as being the 'big issue'. Go look at the data yourself, the September rifle rut success rate is generally a couple % points higher than the late rifle elk hunt. Not enough to even matter but that rut hunt sure pisses off stick flippers for whatever reason. I don't know why folks think moving it will solve the world's problems. I'm just tired of the bullshit

2021 Data:
Manti Early Rifle Success: 80.3%
Manti Late Rifle Success: 84.1%

Wasatch Early Rifle Success: 70.2%
Wasatch Late Rifle Success: 65.0%

Fish Lake Early Rifle Success: 85.7%
Fish Lake Late Rifle Success: 88.5%
Click to expand...
That doesn't show me anything of course some of those will be close and some will be higher.
Remember there are more tags issued during Early verses late hunts.
 
Zeke said:
So are they (you) saying that being selective (cherry packing) and targeting older class animals is BAD?

When a guy shoots a 2 point, everyone screams "let it grow up" and now when a guy shoots an older class animal, the same folka claim targeting? Dear Lord we are all so screwed!

Zeke
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It's about balance Zeke and there isn't anything wrong with that....middle ground.

Our "Premium" units aren't so Premium anymore, why?
Because we are too effective, plain and simple.

Oak Creek won't last long either when we are removing half a dozen or more 200" bucks year after year, and trophy quality bulls are in the same boat.
We don't give anything a chance anymore.
 
I can see that if there is a big technology roll-back, It will recreate the "when there's lead in the air, there's danger" crowd all over again. Being "selective" will be a thing of the past for many.

Rangefinders for instance: People with ethics use a rangefinder/windmeter every bit as much for when NOT to shoot as they do when TO shoot.

I'm glad I'm in the sunset of my hunting! You cannot even imagine the hunting stories I have. This will be just like the National debt, my grandkids will pay the freight and, in this case, things will be so limited and controlled that hunting will NOT be a way of life as it is for me.
 
slamdunk said:
It's about balance Zeke and there isn't anything wrong with that....middle ground.

Our "Premium" units aren't so Premium anymore, why?
Because we are too effective, plain and simple.

Oak Creek won't last long either when we are removing half a dozen or more 200" bucks year after year, and trophy quality bulls are in the same boat.
We don't give anything a chance anymore.
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So you're saying that tags and seasons should never be adjusted to manage hunters but rather just limit their technology (oh, this will end well once the anti crowd sees how well it works)???
We shouldn't try to build herds but we'd rather increase hunters/crowding (sell more tags) and make the hunters less efficient???

There's such a small fraction of the hunting population that will EVER hunt the Oak Creek unit that it shouldn't be a discussion. Silly Slam!

Again, we are on a slippery slope here and it started because of some butt-hurt dude and trail cameras (of which I've never used).

I've got over 4000 hunting photos on my phone (yes, copious storage) and from my perspective, we trying our hardest to F things us.

SOP: Form a committee, study the issue from a one sided perspective, take comments (but for God sakes don't listen to them), make a ruling in the "name" of conservation and hop on the slippery slope.

This reminds me of the Wyo survey about how to serve NR hunters. FACT: it was nothing more than trying to snake a way to keep NR's buying point now that we've been and about to be screwed hard.

Sorry Slam, I'm not buying it.

Zeke
 
Zeke.....C'mon man, you've seen my posts on conservation and building back herds on here for years.

I've never said a thing about season dates because this isn't about season dates.
But if it will give you a shiny light of hope, the other committees are discussing season dates quite heavily and I am all for moving elk rifle out of the rut 100%.

Oak Creek comment?
Tell the people who have waited 25 years to draw a Henry's tag that they don't matter.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Does Utah have an "Everyone gets to hunt every year" philosophy?
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Yes, many residents here have this attitude. Before the population booms the last several years many hunters have been able to hunt big game every year in some capacity. We've been spoiled. I think that is why people are freaking out about technology in Utah and Non-residents in Wyoming. People aren't getting their yearly tag anymore.
 
slamdunk said:
Zeke.....C'mon man, you've seen my posts on conservation and building back herds on here for years.

I've never said a thing about season dates because this isn't about season dates.
But if it will give you a shiny light of hope, the other committees are discussing season dates quite heavily and I am all for moving elk rifle out of the rut 100%.

Oak Creek comment?
Tell the people who have waited 25 years to draw a Henry's tag that they don't matter.
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Too small of a cross section of hunters which makes it statistically irrelevant. So because we lose 6 big bucks a year off the Oak Creeks, we should start banning our gear?

Slam, I know you're actually one of the good guys and quite involved and very diplomatic but when will this BAN on hunting gear end? We now have, and will have in the future, antis involved and before long we'll all be eating plant-based meat!
 
slamdunk said:
Zeke.....C'mon man, you've seen my posts on conservation and building back herds on here for years.

I've never said a thing about season dates because this isn't about season dates.
But if it will give you a shiny light of hope, the other committees are discussing season dates quite heavily and I am all for moving elk rifle out of the rut 100%.

Oak Creek comment?
Tell the people who have waited 25 years to draw a Henry's tag that they don't matter.
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It always boils down to inches and money....sad what it's become and will dissengrate to. I would like to see what special interest groups are on this committee? Is there a way to know who will be making these decisions for us?
 
Vitalwave said:
Yes, many residents here have this attitude. Before the population booms the last several years many hunters have been able to hunt big game every year in some capacity. We've been spoiled. I think that is why people are freaking out about technology in Utah and Non-residents in Wyoming. People aren't getting their yearly tag anymore.
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Got it. Ya, if I had a vote, I would simply limit permits to the appropriate amount to manage the game. AZ does this, and no, I can't hunt elk or mule deer every year. But when I get to, it's a lot of fun! Wyoming doesn't have that problem for residents largely, but they sure do limit for NR. Same deal tho- I like the approach much better than restricting technology. Now, NEW technologies that are not in the DNA of the hunters- that's different in my mind.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Got it. Ya, if I had a vote, I would simply limit permits to the appropriate amount to manage the game. AZ does this, and no, I can't hunt elk or mule deer every year. But when I get to, it's a lot of fun! Wyoming doesn't have that problem for residents largely, but they sure do limit for NR. Same deal tho- I like the approach much better than restricting technology. Now, NEW technologies that are not in the DNA of the hunters- that's different in my mind.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. I would rather have quality vs. quantity when it comes to hunting. Especially for how expense gas and everything else is.
 
Airborne said:
We actually do have the Mid Season rifle success rates data:
Manti: 64.3%
Wasatch: 52.4%
Fish Lake: 56%

So what is your point again? You move all rifle hunts in October, have that be super crowded yet still have some very high success rates? Don't forget you also need to fit in the rifle deer hunt and the spike elk hunt which are also in October. I don't think the ole season shuffle is gonna solve whatever problem you think there is.

I just want guys who talk **** to know what they are talking about and make sense with the available data--probably a stretch on MM
Click to expand...
Okay my point here is put out the actual data.

Manti
Early rifle 156 tags issued- 80.3% Success
Late rifle 120 tags issued- 84.1% Success

Wasatch

Early rifle 221 tags issued- 70.2% Success
Late rifle 127 tags issued- 65% Success

Fish lake

Early rifle 82 tags issued - 85.7% Success
Mid rifle 27 tags issued -56% Success
Late rifle 26 tags issued - 88.5 % Success

Percentages don't mean anything till you add tag numbers.

How about you give me and everyone else a good reason to keep the early rifle hunt?

The reason why the Mid season is low percentage is because it over laps the spike hunt. If you move the early season rifle rut hunt on top of the spike hunt you bet your butt the success rates will drop.
 
Last edited:
slamdunk said:
Does anyone realize what technology is coming down the pipe into our near future?

Ever heard of "nano technology" glass already being tested by scope companies that allow vision in foggy conditions?

Where's the line in ethics and fair chase if this ridiculous stuff isn't minimized versus maximized?
Click to expand...


EXACTLY.

For those who don't read, VORTEX is the optic for the new military rifle. You don't think that all the R&D and money that goes into those weapons won't be available to the public within a year or two?

Nano tech, Lazers, GPS guided.

And it will start with the dudes dropping 6 figures on a deer, but like every technology it gets cheaper as time goes on.

Also. I've been told repeatedly that people in position of influence, read this forum. Instead of stupid sarcasm about boots or trucks, guys be honest.

If your take is the same as Tri, that every tag sold should equal a dead deer so limiting tech won't work, then so be it, but talk straight.

If it's that you spent a small fortune on 20x turreted scopes and that won't be useable, so be it.

But the committee is trying to find happy mediums, without just leaving the door open to everything.
 
hossblur said:
EXACTLY.

For those who don't read, VORTEX is the optic for the new military rifle. You don't think that all the R&D and money that goes into those weapons won't be available to the public within a year or two?

Nano tech, Lazers, GPS guided.

And it will start with the dudes dropping 6 figures on a deer, but like every technology it gets cheaper as time goes on.

Also. I've been told repeatedly that people in position of influence, read this forum. Instead of stupid sarcasm about boots or trucks, guys be honest.

If your take is the same as Tri, that every tag sold should equal a dead deer so limiting tech won't work, then so be it, but talk straight.

If it's that you spent a small fortune on 20x turreted scopes and that won't be useable, so be it.

But the committee is trying to find happy mediums, without just leaving the door open to everything.
Click to expand...
I could post a link on future optics in the works, but the nay sayers wouldn't believe it.
Nano technology is over most heads, but it's damn scary what it'll do if it's allowed to hit the Cabela's shelves.

Military already uses things that we will be using to further decimate our quality if we continue to allow it's introduction.
 
slamdunk said:
I could post a link on future optics in the works, but the nay sayers wouldn't believe it.
Nano technology is over most heads, but it's damn scary what it'll do if it's allowed to hit the Cabela's shelves.

Military already uses things that we will be using to further decimate our quality if we continue to allow it's introduction.
Click to expand...
Ya- if states would limit those technologies ahead of time, no harm no foul. I think the big bruhaha over game cameras was the delay in doing it.
 
Just because I have the honor to be on this committee doesn't mean I am the bad guy.

Complain all you want, this thing isn't going anywhere.

And maybe, just maybe I am one of the guys fighting for Wiffys compound bow where others want him using a long bow.
Or I'm trying to keep inlines where others want us using flintlocks.

I may actually be one of the guys there trying to save a few things we still have ?‍♂️flintlock.

The committee process isn't the laws, we are merely the 1st step of many after our part.
Once our recommendations are sent to the board, we walk away and let them take over.
 
Last edited:
Bigwiffy said:
It always boils down to inches and money....sad what it's become and will dissengrate to. I would like to see what special interest groups are on this committee? Is there a way to know who will be making these decisions for us?
Click to expand...
The committee will make recommendations to the DWR/WB.
Once the committee makes the recommendations, whatever the DWR/WB decides to act on goes through the RAC process. It is there public can respond and make comments.

The committee is as follows.

Kevin Norman - SFW
Doug Peterson - MDF
Mark Thompson - Manufacture
Randy Walk - UAA
Austin Atkinson - Guide/RAC
Tawny Meyer - FS Officer
Thylissa Plyer - Wild Arrow Owner
Ben Dentamonte - Social Media
Bryce Thurgood - WB
Rusty Farsworth - Guide
Kaden Roberts - Public at Large
Dave Freiss - CWMU
Randy Larsen - University
Hadlee Sulivan - Younger Generation Hunter
 
middlefork said:
The committee will make recommendations to the DWR/WB.
Once the committee makes the recommendations, whatever the DWR/WB decides to act on goes through the RAC process. It is there public can respond and make comments.

The committee is as follows.

Kevin Norman - SFW
Doug Peterson - MDF
Mark Thompson - Manufacture
Randy Walk - UAA
Austin Atkinson - Guide/RAC
Tawny Meyer - FS Officer
Thylissa Plyer - Wild Arrow Owner
Ben Dentamonte - Social Media
Bryce Thurgood - WB
Rusty Farsworth - Guide
Kaden Roberts - Public at Large
Dave Freiss - CWMU
Randy Larsen - University
Hadlee Sulivan - Younger Generation Hunter
Click to expand...
That's helpful thanks for posting.

I won't comment, but several eye rolls from me on who will be making decisions. Glad social media is represented I was worried.....
 
middlefork said:
The committee will make recommendations to the DWR/WB.
Once the committee makes the recommendations, whatever the DWR/WB decides to act on goes through the RAC process. It is there public can respond and make comments.

The committee is as follows.

Kevin Norman - SFW
Doug Peterson - MDF
Mark Thompson - Manufacture
Randy Walk - UAA
Austin Atkinson - Guide/RAC
Tawny Meyer - FS Officer
Thylissa Plyer - Wild Arrow Owner
Ben Dentamonte - Social Media
Bryce Thurgood - WB
Rusty Farsworth - Guide
Kaden Roberts - Public at Large
Dave Freiss - CWMU
Randy Larsen - University
Hadlee Sulivan - Younger Generation Hunter
Click to expand...
For the record, I am NOT representing the MDF.
My opinions, voice, vote and input are not theirs.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Hahaha I'm tired of it too. Move it to the middle of October and see what the success rates look like. Thanks for validating the issue. Do away with the late hunt when the bulls should be recouping.
Click to expand...
Oct is more important for the bulls to recoup from the rut than Nov/Dec…
 
My flip side opinion in reducing tech to create more opportunity is this. A big reason I hunt is to get away from people and enjoy the outdoors. Sometimes solo, more and more with my kids and sometimes with a couple of brothers or buddies. If more opportunity equals crowded mountains/hills during hunts, then I'm out on the tech limits. Even if folks are less effective, I don't want to bump into bob and peggy and bill every time I round a corner. I'd rather hunt less with less people around.

Let's be sure and consider any unintended consequences of more opportunity.

Just my $.02
 
I'm Perty Much On Board With Zeke On This One!

And copple2 As Well!

This BS Does Nothing To Improve Our Herds!

Their Plan is To Try & Reduce Success Rates!

So They Can Sell More Tags & Put More People/Pressure in The Field!

Put More Money In Their Pockets!

And Not GAF About The Over Hunted Herds We Already Have Without More BS Taking Place!

GEEZUS!
 

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