Wildlife Board Workshop

Funny How We Can't Do A F'N Thing Now Without A Committee!

The Committee Might Have As Many As 2 Hunters On It!

I Can't Wait Till The AI Takes Over!
 
Vanilla said:
We need that committee to listen to biology and data, not misguided hunters.
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Careful what you wish for... The biology and data we do have is nascent and murky, the biologists even admit it themselves (listen to the recent Rokslide and GoHunt podcasts). As we are not even near carrying capacity on the majority, if not all, of our general season units, I have a hard time envisioning how killing more bucks will do anything to increase overall fawn recruitment. Thats the reccomendation they've hinted to in both of those podcasts and it terrifies me to be honest...

Me and my family have hunted the same general unit for 22 years now, been on the unit every single one of those years outside of one season in 2011. Last year, I saw 3 small bucks and 9 does in 7 days of hunting, with access to prime private land with no other pressure. Those numbers would have been a "poor" morning hunt just a few years ago.. Prime habitat completly devoid of deer altogether. If the biologists get their way, we'll be lowering buck-to-doe ratios as an attempt to solve this problem. How that will be effective when we are not even remotely close to a carrying capacity is beyond me..

How about we start with fencing more highways, working to improve the summer ranges via controlled burns, restructure the depredation program to compensate farmers for damages as opposed to lethally removing the deer which are largely does (the fact that we are still killing thousands of does each year in Utah is mindblowing), and preserving wintering areas and migration corridors (as opposed to lowering buck to doe ratios)...
 
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I Agree with NevadaSheep!

You Don't Need To Ba A Biologist!

You Don't Need To Be A Dr!

You Don't Need A Podcast!

We Don't Need To Kill More Deer!

We Don't Need To Shoot More Bucks Just Because They're Taking Up Space On The Landscape!

We Don't Need To Shoot More Bucks Because They Are Killing Fawns!

We Don't Need To Lower Buck To Doe Ratio's AGAIN!

We Don't Need To Keep Doing STUPID SSHHITT That's Already Been Tried & Failed!

Like I've Said For Decades!

We've Already Tried STUPID SSHHIT,We Don't Need To Keep Doing More STUPID SSHHIT!!!
 
I totally agree with Nevada sheep. All this data is good but we don’t have deer numbers wise to even think about lowering the buck population. In fact it was mentioned that maybe having more bucks would help breed doe earlier and then fawns would be born earlier giving them a better chance of survival.
 
middlefork said:
Obviously none of you have watched this. It's not as simplified as the Rokslide and Gohunt podcasts
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Why would they? It’s easier to shout ignorantly than to actually be educated.

For the record, I’m including myself in the possibility of being a “misguided hunter.”

We spend enormous amounts of time and resources to gather data. We probably ought to use it instead of catering to a bunch of whiny hunters that don’t know what we are talking about.
 
southernutahhunter said:
I totally agree with Nevada sheep. All this data is good but we don’t have deer numbers wise to even think about lowering the buck population. In fact it was mentioned that maybe having more bucks would help breed doe earlier and then fawns would be born earlier giving them a better chance of survival.
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I used to subscribe to this line of thinking as well, but from all there birthing studys they have done 90% of the fawns are born in a 2 week time frame anyway.
 
How Could You Mis-Guide Yourself Nilly?

Oh Wait A Minute!

It Only takes A Podcast Or Two!

Like I've Said!

We've Already Tried Decades Of STUPID SSHHITT!

We Don't Need To Keep Trying More STUPID SSHIT!

The Deer Herd Is Past A Delicate State Of Well Being!

Too Many Bucks On The Landscape? I Call BULLSSHHIT!

Bucks Killing Fawns? It Might Happen,The Numbers Would Be So Low It'd Be In Somebodies WET DREAM To Add It In To The Equation Of PISS POOR Deer Herd Management!

Lower The Buck To Doe Ratio's Again? GET Real & Use That Round Thang Atop Your Shoulders!

PEOPLE LIKE LUMPY HAVE FORGOT MORE ABOUT DEER MANAGEMENT THAN MOST WILL EVER KNOW!





Vanilla said:
Why would they? It’s easier to shout ignorantly than to actually be educated.

For the record, I’m including myself in the possibility of being a “misguided hunter.”

We spend enormous amounts of time and resources to gather data. We probably ought to use it instead of catering to a bunch of whiny hunters that don’t know what we are talking about.
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But it was said that born even one week later in June can effect how a fawn goes into winter. I have seen numerous herds of doe in late November with no buck in with them.
 
I've Seen Fawns Killed & Some Alive That Still Had Spots On Them During The General Rifle Deer Hunt!

Anybody Wanna Take A Survival Guess On How Many Survive When Born That Late?

JakeH said:
I used to subscribe to this line of thinking as well, but from all there birthing studys they have done 90% of the fawns are born in a 2 week time frame anyway.
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The bottom line is there are so few deer that we should be hoping for as many deer as we can, bucks or doe. I want to know anyone who went out this past winter and saw the number of bucks to doe as is said on these southern units. I must look for wintering deer in all the wrong places. Not only is there very few bucks but the total deer numbers are in the tank. Someone prove this wrong for me please
 
In a perfect world, we need improved summer range habitat (e.g. prescribed burns), we need to limit development on winter range and migration corridors (I’m afraid this one is impossible thanks to Utah’s growth-centric politic base), and we need to hope and pray for decent weather.

Blasting the prescious few two points left (when we are light years away from sniffing a carrying capacity) ain’t gonna make a difference in fawn recruitment. If anything it means less dumb food on the landscape for our predators and they’ll be even more zero’d in on our does.. That’s all I’m saying..
 
NevadaSheep said:
In a perfect world, we need improved summer range habitat (e.g. prescribed burns), we need to limit development on winter range and migration corridors (I’m afraid this one is impossible thanks to Utah’s growth-centric politic base), and we need to hope and pray for decent weather.
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It’s interesting, one of the podcasts I said that I learned some things from and have been blasted 7200 times since (in a two week period…) talks about summer range being the most important thing, and hinted strongly we need more fires to help our deer herds. But…I’m sure some would just prefer tag cuts over that happening.
 
Try To Pay More attention If You Can?

I've Said For Many Years That Fires Can Be A Good Thing!

They Can also Be Not Such A Good Thing!

The Fires They Used To Call CONTROLLED That They Now Call PRESCRIBED That Didn't Burn All The Big Trees Down Can Be A Good Thing But It's Short Term!

About 3 Years Later The Good Accomplished For The Deer Is A Done Deal!

Now I'll Remind You This Is On The South Slope,Other Areas Might Be Different!

The Fire We Had A Few Years Ago When They Decided To JUST LET IT BURN Was A Hot SOB & It Was So HOT It Toasted Everything!

Here's The Deal With It:

The Erosion Is Beyond Belief & When It Rains & When The Snow Starts Melting Watch Out!

The Fire Was So F'N Hot It Scorched Everything & Not Much Has Came Back Yet!

Will It Be Good For Game Long Term?

I Don't Know!

But There Wasn't Anything Good Short Term!

Looks Like what Is Coming Back From The Hot Fire Might Be Better For Elk Than Deer!

Now The KING Nilly Can Post & Tell Me How Wrong I Am Because I'm Not A SCHOOL BOY Biologist & He's Right!

I'm Seeing This First Hand And The TRUTH Hurts I Guess!




Vanilla said:
It’s interesting, one of the podcasts I said that I learned some things from and have been blasted 7200 times since (in a two week period…) talks about summer range being the most important thing, and hinted strongly we need more fires to help our deer herds. But…I’m sure some would just prefer tag cuts over that happening.

As for development on winter range, the legislator hunters love to hate did something pretty huge on that this last session. Check it out.

HB0382

le.utah.gov le.utah.gov
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Vanilla said:
We need that committee to listen to biology and data, not misguided hunters.
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"guided" or "controlled" or "owned" Biologists presenting manipulated data are FAR more dangerous than misguided hunters.

Take a look at the last 40 years in UT and you'll have a perfect case study.
 
Muley_73 said:
"guided" or "controlled" or "owned" Biologists presenting manipulated data are FAR more dangerous than misguided hunters.

Take a look at the last 40 years in UT and you'll have a perfect case study.
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You are 100% right on that one - though the "guiding" "controlling" and "owning" in Utah comes from one source...SFW and other special interest groups .

Until that changes, Biologists can only do so much.
 
Unfortunately it’s often the misguided hunters forcing the bureaucrats into the recommendations they make. So, sorry muley73, but you’re missing the point of what I’m saying.

In fact, what you’re saying is exactly what I’m advocating for to stop!

We are obtaining incredible data. More so than any other western state currently. What is the point if we are not going to use it? If we are just going to let idiots like me and you force them into things that don’t work anyway and just further the mule deer’s demise in our state?

Heck, I don’t even know if we can save this species. It may be destined to die off as a weaker species not biologically advanced enough to adapt to its changing circumstances. That sucks if that is true, but I hope we don’t let hunters that only care about one thing that doesn’t have anything to do with biology decide what options we follow to see if we can turn this thing around.

Or we can just cut tags again. Maybe this time it will finally work? 30+ years of doing it and cutting more than 70% of the tags hasn’t worked yet, but maybe…just MAYBE it will work the next time.
 
The whole problem starts with deer numbers. You, I and every sportsmen who gets out at all knows the deer numbers are in the tank. The deer situation needs to be looked at from the standpoint of having no deer, not 20 bucks per hundred doe.
 
elkhunterUT said:
You are 100% right on that one - though the "guiding" "controlling" and "owning" in Utah comes from one source...SFW and other special interest groups .

Until that changes, Biologists can only do so much.
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This started way way way before SFW. All of you Johnny Come Lately's don't look a the entire picture. SFW ONLY exists due to decades of mismanagement from the state agencies.

The fact that you all focus the blame on that is a perfect example of manipulation. You are all hating exactly who the powers that be want you to hate to take the pressure off and divert accountability.
 
Vanilla said:
Unfortunately it’s often the misguided hunters forcing the bureaucrats into the recommendations they make. So, sorry muley73, but you’re missing the point of what I’m saying.

In fact, what you’re saying is exactly what I’m advocating for to stop!

We are obtaining incredible data. More so than any other western state currently. What is the point if we are not going to use it? If we are just going to let idiots like me and you force them into things that don’t work anyway and just further the mule deer’s demise in our state?

Heck, I don’t even know if we can save this species. It may be destined to die off as a weaker species not biologically advanced enough to adapt to its changing circumstances. That sucks if that is true, but I hope we don’t let hunters that only care about one thing that doesn’t have anything to do with biology decide what options we follow to see if we can turn this thing around.

Or we can just cut tags again. Maybe this time it will finally work? 30+ years of doing it and cutting more than 70% of the tags hasn’t worked yet, but maybe…just MAYBE it will work the next time.
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See they have you focused only on tag cuts rather than all of the other options and possible fixes to help the herds. I personally have said there are so many options outside of tag cuts. The state would rather cut tags, and do nothing else to help the herds. Then they can have guys like you fight the battle to tell those of us that have been fighting for 5 decades to shut up. You are all being played while the herds continue to suffer.
 
A Wanna-Be-Great-White Hunter That Has NUDIES Of Himself!

Now That's Something To BRAGG About Isn't It?

Somebody Wanna Get Ahold Of SMACKDADDY & Tell Him That Nilly's got Nudes & He's Willing To Send Them!

You're Losing it!

I NEVER SAID JUST CUT F'N TAGS!

I've Told You A Million F'N Times To Grow More Deer Numbers & Then Issue A Few More Tags!

Keep The Same Old BS Management Up & You'll Have No F'N Choice Other Than To CUT MORE Tags!

The Choice Is Yours!

The Only Thing That Bothers You Is When Somebody Mentions CUTTING TAGS!

WAKE THE PHHUCCK Up!

I'll Get Ahold Of Founder & See If He's Willing To Start You A NUDIE FORUM!







Vanilla said:
Okay, forget summer range and just cut tags Bessy. We get it!

How many times you going to say my name? I can send nudes if you need them that badly.
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Muley_73 said:
See they have you focused only on tag cuts rather than all of the other options and possible fixes to help the herds. I personally have said there are so many options outside of tag cuts. The state would rather cut tags, and do nothing else to help the herds. Then they can have guys like you fight the battle to tell those of us that have been fighting for 5 decades to shut up. You are all being played while the herds continue to suffer.
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So what are the other options that have been tried besides tag cuts
 
There's Been STUPID SSHHIT Tried That Most People Knew Wouldn't Work!

For Example:

Buck To Doe Ratio Management!

It Didn't Work With The Numbers They Started With!

And Now They Wanna Lower Them Numbers!

And People Like The KING Will SUCK That BS In As Long As It Doesn't Include A TAG CUT!



elkhunter81 said:
So what are the other options that have been tried besides tag cuts
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Muley_73 said:
See they have you focused only on tag cuts rather than all of the other options and possible fixes to help the herds. I personally have said there are so many options outside of tag cuts. The state would rather cut tags, and do nothing else to help the herds. Then they can have guys like you fight the battle to tell those of us that have been fighting for 5 decades to shut up. You are all being played while the herds continue to suffer.
Click to expand...

You’re sounding like elkASS now, and that isn’t a compliment. We need to do a lot of new things. I think we agree on that. You’re just too stuck in some faux fight that is a decade plus old that you can’t see we want the same thing.

Keep on your quest to make this about what you want it to be about.

Just kicking against the pricks. It’s effective, I hear!
 
Just finished watching this work session, yep all 7 hours of it, some very good informative information in there.

I highly recommend everyone watch at least the first few hours with Brock, Kent, and Randy as they go over all the stuff they have been working on the past 10+ years. I have to say I am very impressed with the collar data they have been collecting and haw they have expanded the program as much as they have.
 
Hey Nilly!

The Lumpy Family Has Forgot More About Deer Management Than You'll Ever Know!



Vanilla said:
You’re sounding like elkASS now, and that isn’t a compliment. We need to do a lot of new things. I think we agree on that. You’re just too stuck in some faux fight that is a decade plus old that you can’t see we want the same thing.

Keep on your quest to make this about what you want it to be about.

Just kicking against the pricks. It’s effective, I hear!
Click to expand...
 
Committees are a joke. Any time you have two or more people try and decide something it will never come up with the best solution.
 
Disagree. You just have to have the right people on the committee and the right leader running the show. This is where most committees fail.

I don’t want the same one or two people making all the decisions on anything! Even if one of those two is me.
 
Hey Nilly?

deadibob isn't Wrong!

The Only Reason Committee's Were drug In To Game Management Is So Others Have Somebody-else To Blame When The BS Doesn't Work,Again!

Now It's took A Few Days Nilly To get Your Blood Pressure Back Down & That's A Good Thing!

So Now it's The KINGS turn To Make A PROPOSAL On The Deer Plan/Management!

I Knew The Opportunists Wouldn't Like Mine & I Gave Them 3 Units,The Guys Wanting A Chance At Better Quality Got 3 Units,I Kept The Rest Of The State Perty Much STATUS-QUO For Some Of The People That Love It Just The Way It Is & For Others That Have Points Built Up Working On Drawing A Medi-Oaker Tag Someday!

I Didn't Really Change That Much!

You & Your Boys Like Notdon,elkhunter81,Brock & Whoever-else That's On The Opportunist List Get To Manage Them Other 3 Units Just As You Please,You Don't Like CUTTING TAGS So I Suggest You Add All The Tags You Want In Them 3 Units,You Can THUMP Your Chest & Show All The Opportunists The LOOK AT ME & LOOK WHAT I DID,I Promise You I Won't Be Mad,I'll Also Promise You I Won't Be There In Any Of Them 3 Units!

So Post up Your PROPOSAL Nilly!

Just Remember A Couple Things:

Your Plan & New Management Needs To Have Something In It For Everybody,No Different Than My PROPOSAL!

No,I'm Not Trying To Raise Your Blood Pressure Again!

Everytime I Get Your Blood Pressure Up You Start Posting Stuff That Don't Need to Be On A Hunting Forum!

I Haven't Even Used The F Word In This Post!

Seriously,What's Your Recommended Plan/Proposal?









Vanilla said:
Disagree. You just have to have the right people on the committee and the right leader running the show. This is where most committees fail.

I don’t want the same one or two people making all the decisions on anything! Even if one of those two is me.
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elkassassin said:
Hey Nilly?

deadibob isn't Wrong!

The Only Reason Committee's Were drug In To Game Management Is So Others Have Somebody-else To Blame When The BS Doesn't Work,Again!

Now It's took A Few Days Nilly To get Your Blood Pressure Back Down & That's A Good Thing!

So Now it's The KINGS turn To Make A PROPOSAL On The Deer Plan/Management!

I Knew The Opportunists Wouldn't Like Mine & I Gave Them 3 Units,The Guys Wanting A Chance At Better Quality Got 3 Units,I Kept The Rest Of The State Perty Much STATUS-QUO For Some Of The People That Love It Just The Way It Is & For Others That Have Points Built Up Working On Drawing A Medi-Oaker Tag Someday!

I Didn't Really Change That Much!

You & Your Boys Like Notdon,elkhunter81,Brock & Whoever-else That's On The Opportunist List Get To Manage Them Other 3 Units Just As You Please,You Don't Like CUTTING TAGS So I Suggest You Add All The Tags You Want In Them 3 Units,You Can THUMP Your Chest & Show All The Opportunists The LOOK AT ME & LOOK WHAT I DID,I Promise You I Won't Be Mad,I'll Also Promise You I Won't Be There In Any Of Them 3 Units!

So Post up Your PROPOSAL Nilly!

Just Remember A Couple Things:

Your Plan & New Management Needs To Have Something In It For Everybody,No Different Than My PROPOSAL!

No,I'm Not Trying To Raise Your Blood Pressure Again!

Everytime I Get Your Blood Pressure Up You Start Posting Stuff That Don't Need to Be On A Hunting Forum!

I Haven't Even Used The F Word In This Post!

Seriously,What's Your Recommended Plan/Proposal?
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Your plan has been in place the last 40+ years. So far it hasn't worked well. Do you think cutting tags for the next 40 years will be better? Why can't we try something else and hear from some different people who don't "BAWL" all the time. Do different ideas scare you? I have a pile of bull calves I will sell you. You buy them feed them and keep them from the feed lot and slaughter house and report back next year on how your bull calf herd has increased.
 
deadibob said:
Committees are a joke. Any time you have two or more people try and decide something it will never come up with the best solution.
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Exactly. When you start compromising the best you can hope for is to land on middle ground. The best and worst ideas go away.
 
PAY The F Attention!

You & The Opportunist Boys Get To Add As Damn Many Tags As You Want!

KEEP JACKIN YOUR F'N Jaw!

elkhunter81 said:
Your plan has been in place the last 40+ years. So far it hasn't worked well. Do you think cutting tags for the next 40 years will be better? Why can't we try something else and hear from some different people who don't "BAWL" all the time. Do different ideas scare you? I have a pile of bull calves I will sell you. You buy them feed them and keep them from the feed lot and slaughter house and report back next year on how your bull calf herd has increased.
Click to expand...
 
If you Had Paid Any Attention Just On Here the Last 25 Years I've Said There Shouldn't Be A F'N Doe Permit Anywhere In This State!

What'Ya Gonna Do With The Roads?

There Is SOME Fencing That Happens Each Year!

But The Herd Is Diminishing Quicker Than What Road Fencing Is Taking Place!

No!

I'm Not Bad Mouthing The Fencing Projects!

You Gonna Talk All The DRATS In To Slowing Down?





elkhunter81 said:
Does, habitat, roads. Those are the 3 areas I would focus on to help grow the herd
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elkassassin said:
Hey Nilly?

deadibob isn't Wrong!
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I disagree. Get the right people in the room having the right conversations and committees can be fantastic and produce incredible ideas.

Like I said before, they fail when the wrong people are in the room being led in the wrong ways. Example: why do we give so much of a voice to ag producers when crafting big game policies? It certainly isn’t so we can grow big game herds! But there they are, not only a part of the discussion, but controlling many of them.

If anyone thinks they have all the best answers to every question, they’re an idiot. I want more voices coming up with better ideas.

But then again, I want to see things change and I like mule deer. Not everyone here does.
 
Come On Nilly!

Post your Proposal!

Let's See & hear It!



Vanilla said:
I disagree. Get the right people in the room having the right conversations and committees can be fantastic and produce incredible ideas.

Like I said before, they fail when the wrong people are in the room being led in the wrong ways. Example: why do we give so much of a voice to ag producers when crafting big game policies? It certainly isn’t so we can grow big game herds! But there they are, not only a part of the discussion, but controlling many of them.

If anyone thinks they have all the best answers to every question, they’re an idiot. I want more voices coming up with better ideas.

But then again, I want to see things change and I like mule deer. Not everyone here does.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
If you Had Paid Any Attention Just On Here the Last 25 Years I've Said There Shouldn't Be A F'N Doe Permit Anywhere In This State!

What'Ya Gonna Do With The Roads?

There Is SOME Fencing That Happens Each Year!

But The Herd Is Diminishing Quicker Than What Road Fencing Is Taking Place!

No!

I'm Not Bad Mouthing The Fencing Projects!

You Gonna Talk All The DRATS In To Slowing Down?
Click to expand...
I have paid attention you constantly focus on buck numbers and size.
I'm talking about dirt roads. Way too many. Let's close a few down. Why do we need a road in every draw during the hunting season.
 
Well!

I Surely Won't Argue With You On That!

You Ever Heard Of THE HIGH COUNTRY TUNE-UP?

Do You Know What HELL-F'N-RIGHT Is?



elkhunter81 said:
I have paid attention you constantly focus on buck numbers and size.
I'm talking about dirt roads. Way too many. Let's close a few down. Why do we need a road in every draw during the hunting season.
Click to expand...
 
Vanilla. I took your advice and learned a lot after watching the workshop session. I learned more in that 7 or 8 hour video then I have in 48 years. I truly think their onto something.
But Dam! The little things defiantly add up to what's going on with our deer herds that's for sure.
As far as buck to doe ratio, I understand there theory now. I'm not 100% convinced that is a problem, but knowing more about what their thinking, defiantly gets me thinking this could be a problem.

I truly want to thank the division for all this work their doing.
 
I also have learned a lot from watching this. I have changed my thoughts on a lot of things.

I used to believe it was about the money but it takes money to do what they are doing and a lot of it.
I really appreciate all the time and hard work they have put into mule deer.

Now if someone could point me in the right direction on contacting the shed committee that would be great and thank you.
 
Demanding?

I've Tried to Be Nice To You Nilly!

I've Asked A Few Times But Crickets!

Go Ahead & Post Your Proposal!

Not Demanding!

Asking If You Could Do That?
Vanilla said:
I laugh that within the last 3 days you criticized my ideas I'd like to see us start with that I posted on this very website, and now you are demanding "my plan," not once, not twice, not three times, but now FIVE times over the last 12 hours.

You truly have lost your marbles.
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Other than their theory that lower b/d ratio equals more deer, I found their research and data to be accurate and 100% believable.

I am glad they are taking a hard look at elk vs deer conflicts.

With the summer range projects I would encourage all to get in, do the work and get out.

There is some work going on east of salt lake on the wasatch that is now going on year number three, were they have been running chainsaws most of the time. End it already!!!
 
Lowering Buck To Doe ratio's Lower Than They Already Are & Issuing MORE TAGS Ain't The Fix!

But With A New Management Plan As I Proposed For The Opportunists I'd Gladly Let Them Try It On Their New 3 Units!

I'm Not Against Them trying It But To Try It Statewide Would Be Total BULLSSHHITT!








Betterluckythangood said:
Other than their theory that lower b/d ratio equals more deer, I found their research and data to be accurate and 100% believable.

I am glad they are taking a hard look at elk vs deer conflicts.

With the summer range projects I would encourage all to get in, do the work and get out.

There is some work going on east of salt lake on the wasatch that is now going on year number three, were they have been running chainsaws most of the time. End it already!!!
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Lowering Buck To Doe ratio's Lower Than They Already Are & Issuing MORE TAGS Ain't The Fix!

But With A New Management Plan As I Proposed For The Opportunists I'd Gladly Let Them Try It On Their New 3 Units!

I'm Not Against Them trying It But To Try It Statewide Would Be Total BULLSSHHITT!
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Bess,
I agree….try it on 3 units, try some other options on 3 other units and some more on 3 other units.
That was the entire thought process Beijing Option 2. Give the DWR the ability to manage each herd individually with more focus on what they unit needed specifically to grow. The DWR chose to continue to blank manage with the opportunity crowd giving them support and justification to keep it the status quo.
I don’t care if you manage 3 units for OTC tag and have at it and see how that plays out.
Just stop with the blanket management and micro manage each unit for higher overall deer numbers period the end.
If you handed the state over to a private entity there is no question they would grow more deer…so there is a way…it’s just a matter of if we are willing to accept it.
 
So you’re saying that tag cuts and killing less bucks didn’t work. So we will now kill more bucks and if will be better. Hasn’t worked in Oregon, Idaho or Washington, SMH
 
I Agree!

We Went To 30+ Units For Better Management!

Or So We Thought!

How'd That Work Out Nilly?

FUBAR!

Anybody Need Me To SPLAIN What FUBAR Is?

Muley_73 said:
Bess,
I agree….try it on 3 units, try some other options on 3 other units and some more on 3 other units.
That was the entire thought process Beijing Option 2. Give the DWR the ability to manage each herd individually with more focus on what they unit needed specifically to grow. The DWR chose to continue to blank manage with the opportunity crowd giving them support and justification to keep it the status quo.
I don’t care if you manage 3 units for OTC tag and have at it and see how that plays out.
Just stop with the blanket management and micro manage each unit for higher overall deer numbers period the end.
If you handed the state over to a private entity there is no question they would grow more deer…so there is a way…it’s just a matter of if we are willing to accept it.
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Muley_73 said:
If you handed the state over to a private entity there is no question they would grow more deer…so there is a way…it’s just a matter of if we are willing to accept it.
Click to expand...

Some might (correctly) argue we already did that with SFW. Had it work out?
elkassassin said:
How'd That Work Out Nilly?
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Don’t blame me. I opposed it when it happened and have always opposed the “conservation” organization that forced it through against the will of the Division.
 
Not Blaming It On You!

Just Sayin!

Vanilla said:
Some might (correctly) argue we already did that with SFW. Had it work out?


Don’t blame me. I opposed it when it happened and have always opposed the “conservation” organization that forced it through against the will of the Division.
Click to expand...
 
Vanilla said:
I disagree. Get the right people in the room having the right conversations and committees can be fantastic and produce incredible ideas.

Like I said before, they fail when the wrong people are in the room being led in the wrong ways. Example: why do we give so much of a voice to ag producers when crafting big game policies? It certainly isn’t so we can grow big game herds! But there they are, not only a part of the discussion, but controlling many of them.

If anyone thinks they have all the best answers to every question, they’re an idiot. I want more voices coming up with better ideas.

But then again, I want to see things change and I like mule deer. Not everyone here does.
Click to expand...
I have yet to see a committee produce anything butt half-azz compromises. Get the right people in the room? When has that ever happened? You also said the right leader. What kind of leader is the right one? A leader can’t change all the minds on a committee and if he could the others wouldn’t matter and you would still have one person making all the decisions.
 
Betterluckythangood said:
Other than their theory that lower b/d ratio equals more deer, I found their research and data to be accurate and 100% believable.

I am glad they are taking a hard look at elk vs deer conflicts.

With the summer range projects I would encourage all to get in, do the work and get out.

There is some work going on east of salt lake on the wasatch that is now going on year number three, were they have been running chainsaws most of the time. End it already!!!
Click to expand...
The theory that less bucks and more does is a contradiction to what wildlife biology has taught for decades. If there aren’t enough bucks to breed all the does in the first cycle then the fawns don’t all drop together but rather at subsequent times.

When the fawns all hit the ground at roughly the same time there is less predation because the predators can only kill and eat so much at one time. When the births are drawn out over time there is a much higher rate of mortality.
 
deadibob said:
I have yet to see a committee produce anything butt half-azz compromises. Get the right people in the room? When has that ever happened? You also said the right leader. What kind of leader is the right one? A leader can’t change all the minds on a committee and if he could the others wouldn’t matter and you would still have one person making all the decisions.
Click to expand...

I’ve been on committees that have produced fantastic ideas. Not for our wildlife management, but therein lies my point: they keep having the wrong people under the wrong leadership.

And a real leader isn’t there to change everyone else’s minds. That is not leadership.
 
Okay! I want to touch on shed hunting.
I have been out shed hunting every weekend since the end of February and holy crap. I just couldn’t believe the light switch that got turned on in one week with Atv and side by side tracks all over the sage brush flats.

All of this is happening during the week when there is hardly any shed hunters out on the landscape. Because they know they can get away with it.
So how do we fix this problem. I think me personally utah should open shed season April 1 and then let non residents come in on May 1.
let’s get everyone out on the landscape all at once.
 
Elkrunning-Scared said:
Okay! I want to touch on shed hunting.
I have been out shed hunting every weekend since the end of February and holy crap. I just couldn’t believe the light switch that got turned on in one week with Atv and side by side tracks all over the sage brush flats.

All of this is happening during the week when there is hardly any shed hunters out on the landscape. Because they know they can get away with it.
So how do we fix this problem. I think me personally utah should open shed season April 1 and then let non residents come in on May 1.
let’s get everyone out on the landscape all at once.
Click to expand...
Shed hunting is becoming a joke. But I love to shed hunt. I have yet to see people driving all over the place, mostly since the places I hunt are miles in and STEEEEEEP crap. Maybe I need to change my locations, LOL!!! Without giving away your spot, can you give an idea of general area or even county youre seeing all the ATV's in the brush? THIS SHIZZZZ ticks me off. I dont see ATV's but I do see more and more E-bikes.
 
Vanilla said:
Some might (correctly) argue we already did that with SFW. Had it work out?


Don’t blame me. I opposed it when it happened and have always opposed the “conservation” organization that forced it through against the will of the Division.
Click to expand...
The fact that you think Option 2 came from SFW proves my point on reality.

Option 2 was a to give the state the ability to manage more focused and for each herd rather than blanket management. They purposely chose not to utilize it that way.

They then use guys like you to justify it. Look at your comment, you oppose it not for the merit of the idea but because it came from an entity that was not the DWR. That shows you care more about the politics of the situation more than the actual betterment of the resource.
 
Muley_73 said:
They then use guys like you to justify it. Look at your comment, you oppose it not for the merit of the idea but because it came from an entity that was not the DWR. That shows you care more about the politics of the situation more than the actual betterment of the resource.
Click to expand...

No it doesn’t. Swing and a miss. Strike one.
 
Vanilla said:
I’ve been on committees that have produced fantastic ideas. Not for our wildlife management, but therein lies my point: they keep having the wrong people under the wrong leadership.

And a real leader isn’t there to change everyone else’s minds. That is not leadership.
Click to expand...
Well how about defining a good committee leader for us and wtf is the difference between a good vs bad committee leader? What can that leader do other than allocate time for speaking , be a spokesman for the group and designate assigned seats? I would say the definition of a good committee leader would be the SOB that brought coffee and donuts.

I will agree that committees can produce fantastic IDEAS. But getting a group of people to agree on a fantastic idea rarely if ever happens because they either have their own agenda or just want to change it up in some assinine way so they can say they were integral to the outcome.

Either way by the time that fantastic idea gets everyone’s stamp of approval it has become a watered down, do nothing piece of crap so the members can say we did something, pat theirselves on the back and take a photo op.

I would like references to all these great and wonderful committees you have seen or been a part of.
 
Hey Bob!

Nilly Won't Like That But I Do!

What Nilly Doesn't Understand Is Just What You Said!

The Committee May Only Have 1 Or 2 Sportsmen On It!

Do you really Want A GREENIE Or Two On The Committee Making Decisions For Sportsmen/Hunters?

One More Thing deadi!

You're Getting Real Close To A Threat From Nilly!

When He Gets Desperate He'll Threaten You With His NUDIES Like He Did Me & Muley_73!

You're Getting Real Close Bob!:D



deadibob said:
Well how about defining a good committee leader for us and wtf is the difference between a good vs bad committee leader? What can that leader do other than allocate time for speaking , be a spokesman for the group and designate assigned seats? I would say the definition of a good committee leader would be the SOB that brought coffee and donuts.

I will agree that committees can produce fantastic IDEAS. But getting a group of people to agree on a fantastic idea rarely if ever happens because they either have their own agenda or just want to change it up in some assinine way so they can say they were integral to the outcome.

Either way by the time that fantastic idea gets everyone’s stamp of approval it has become a watered down, do nothing piece of crap so the members can say we did something, pat theirselves on the back and take a photo op.

I would like references to all these great and wonderful committees you have seen or been a part of.
Click to expand...
 
Deadibob, for committee to be effective there has to a vision and clear goal. This is another area our wildlife committees often fall short. But if your committee is staffed with the right people to help accomplish that goal, a good leader brings out ideas from everyone and keeps the committee focused on the task at hand. They won’t dominate the discussion, but will guide it in fruitful directions and ensure the committee meets its goals.

A blank canvass with no vision, the wrong people on the committee, and poor leadership is a recipe for exactly what you describe. Unfortunately, that is often how you can describe our wildlife committees.

If I was starting a committee to increase mule deer in Utah, I’d give them that clear charge: Your task is to figure out ways in which we can increase mule deer in Utah. I would then find the best and brightest from various places to ensure that we get a wide array of ideas in our discussions, but it would not include people that have a vested interest in keeping big game numbers down. That would be counterproductive to the goals of the committee. And then we’d get to work!

This won’t ever happen here because there are groups that have too much invested in never seeing mule deer bounce back. There are too many whiny hunters that are dead set on being the only people that can hunt and telling everyone else how they have to do it when those mere peasants get the chance to have a tag in their pocket. So round and round we go, over and over again on the same lame merry-go-round and continue to watch our mule deer decrease. Just like some want, apparently!
 
Robiland said:
Shed hunting is becoming a joke. But I love to shed hunt. I have yet to see people driving all over the place, mostly since the places I hunt are miles in and STEEEEEEP crap. Maybe I need to change my locations, LOL!!! Without giving away your spot, can you give an idea of general area or even county youre seeing all the ATV's in the brush? THIS SHIZZZZ ticks me off. I dont see ATV's but I do see more and more E-bikes.
Click to expand...
Book Cliffs of all places. This is why it pisses me off so bad. The deer and Elk herd is hurting out there then they pull this crap.

2017 and last year’s shed closure wasn’t bad at all other then boot tracks. But I can live with that.
 
Elkrunning-Scared said:
Book Cliffs of all places. This is why it pisses me off so bad. The deer and Elk herd is hurting out there then they pull this crap.

2017 and last year’s shed closure wasn’t bad at all other then boot tracks. But I can live with that.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response and explanation. I'd be ticked off too. I really hope you can catch these guys and the DWR and whoever else lays the smack down on them. Keep us posted!

I have not shed hunt this year and it makes me sick. I ruptured my patellar tendon Feb 6. I am today just barely starting to walk. Zero leg strength and can barely bend my knee. I hope to be back to able to hunt this fall.
 
elkassassin said:
Nilly?

You OK?
Click to expand...

Vanilla said:
Never been better, you?
Click to expand...

This is how @elkassassin pictures himself every time he posts a comment to @Vanilla.

Screenshot 2024-04-18 090156.png
 
Robiland said:
Thanks for the response and explanation. I'd be ticked off too. I really hope you can catch these guys and the DWR and whoever else lays the smack down on them. Keep us posted!

I have not shed hunt this year and it makes me sick. I ruptured my patellar tendon Feb 6. I am today just barely starting to walk. Zero leg strength and can barely bend my knee. I hope to be back to able to hunt this fall.
Click to expand...
I’m sorry. that sucks I could only imagine that would drive me crazy. I pray for a speedy recovery for you.

What the DWR and BLM said they need proof. Next year I will give them proof.
 
Robiland said:
Thanks for the response and explanation. I'd be ticked off too. I really hope you can catch these guys and the DWR and whoever else lays the smack down on them. Keep us posted!

I have not shed hunt this year and it makes me sick. I ruptured my patellar tendon Feb 6. I am today just barely starting to walk. Zero leg strength and can barely bend my knee. I hope to be back to able to hunt this fall.
Click to expand...
Damn, that doesn’t sound good… What’s the Doc say on recovery time?
 
Tikka said:
Damn, that doesn’t sound good… What’s the Doc say on recovery time?
Click to expand...
Well, it was 6 weeks of ZERO walking or leg bend. My quad and calf look like a wet noodle. But he said it takes 6-8 months to get back to full activity. So fingers crossed for September to be back and ready to hunt. So this years apps, I am just laying low. I didnt want top take a chance and do something this fall and push it and be miserable. I did apply for Wy archery elk right before this happened. But everything else is just points and wait until next year.
 
Vanilla said:
Deadibob, for committee to be effective there has to a vision and clear goal. This is another area our wildlife committees often fall short. But if your committee is staffed with the right people to help accomplish that goal, a good leader brings out ideas from everyone and keeps the committee focused on the task at hand. They won’t dominate the discussion, but will guide it in fruitful directions and ensure the committee meets its goals.

A blank canvass with no vision, the wrong people on the committee, and poor leadership is a recipe for exactly what you describe. Unfortunately, that is often how you can describe our wildlife committees.

If I was starting a committee to increase mule deer in Utah, I’d give them that clear charge: Your task is to figure out ways in which we can increase mule deer in Utah. I would then find the best and brightest from various places to ensure that we get a wide array of ideas in our discussions, but it would not include people that have a vested interest in keeping big game numbers down. That would be counterproductive to the goals of the committee. And then we’d get to work!

This won’t ever happen here because there are groups that have too much invested in never seeing mule deer bounce back. There are too many whiny hunters that are dead set on being the only people that can hunt and telling everyone else how they have to do it when those mere peasants get the chance to have a tag in their pocket. So round and round we go, over and over again on the same lame merry-go-round and continue to watch our mule deer decrease. Just like some want, apparently!
Click to expand...
Where is this perfect world in which these effective committees are to be found? The only perfect committee I can even imagine is the one where I’m in charge and I have my single handed three pound sledge hammer. Other than that it just ain’t happening 😁 “YOU’RE OUT OF LINE SIR” WHACK! ⚒️🔨 “THE COMMITTEE WILL NOW COME TO ORDER”🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨

YOU EVER WATCH A SENATE HEARING COMMITTEE HEARING ON CSPAN?😱😂
 
Vanilla said:
Deadibob, for committee to be effective there has to a vision and clear goal. This is another area our wildlife committees often fall short. But if your committee is staffed with the right people to help accomplish that goal, a good leader brings out ideas from everyone and keeps the committee focused on the task at hand. They won’t dominate the discussion, but will guide it in fruitful directions and ensure the committee meets its goals.

A blank canvass with no vision, the wrong people on the committee, and poor leadership is a recipe for exactly what you describe. Unfortunately, that is often how you can describe our wildlife committees.

If I was starting a committee to increase mule deer in Utah, I’d give them that clear charge: Your task is to figure out ways in which we can increase mule deer in Utah. I would then find the best and brightest from various places to ensure that we get a wide array of ideas in our discussions, but it would not include people that have a vested interest in keeping big game numbers down. That would be counterproductive to the goals of the committee. And then we’d get to work!

This won’t ever happen here because there are groups that have too much invested in never seeing mule deer bounce back. There are too many whiny hunters that are dead set on being the only people that can hunt and telling everyone else how they have to do it when those mere peasants get the chance to have a tag in their pocket. So round and round we go, over and over again on the same lame merry-go-round and continue to watch our mule deer decrease. Just like some want, apparently!
Click to expand...
Let me guess, you started your committee last August and you’re still looking for the best and brightest.😂😂😂😂
 
You have no idea how many stupid legislative committees I’ve watched. They are mind numbing!

And I wish they’d give me the authority to start the committee I proposed. It would be fantastic!
 
Vanilla, Are you a Democrat by any chance? The hunter knows notthhiingg. Give it to a government worker. He will take you to the promised land. Don't challenge, just do.
 

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