18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this piss anyone else off?

LAST EDITED ON May-13-09 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]Ryan Hoover?? Does anyone know if that is the Ryan Hoover from Cedar Fort.
 
I work in springville and had a chance to go down and see the bucks there was nice 30 in buck but my feeling is this was a about a thrill kill. alot of them were small bucks no excuses though there was 5 really nice deer there .I hope they are punnished to the full extent of the law and then some .
 
Yes there are 1 or 2 big bucks, but the rest are immature dinks. Shooting them to brag? I dont know. However nothing they have is bragging material.
 
I used to work with a guy with the same first and last name as the Rex they mentioned. If it is the same guy he was trouble then. I have seen the Rex I know looking at the deer I watch. I wonder if he or one of his buddies were responsible for them coming up missing. Wish they would post a picture of these dirt bags.


Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
Wow with that much evidence I think their in some trouble. If convicted I hope they get no plea deals, lose their trucks, guns, jobs, fourwheelers, hiking boots and huntin priviledges. Good Job on nailing these dirt bags UDWR and good job for those who spoke up and reported it.
 
The State of Utah need to make a GIANT example of these guys to all would-be poachers! Give them a fair trial and then sentence them to the MAXIMUM for every count. And every person on this website ought to show up at the courthouse wearing orange or camo and line the sidewalk as they arrive to court! And turn our backs to these thieves as a sign of our disgust! These MEN are old enough to know better by about 25 years! No going with the young and dumb excuse here! This makes me sick. My sweet wife has waited ten years for her tag. And thanks to these scumbags, there are 17 bucks (atleast, who knows the true number) that were STOLEN from her and every other tag holder! I hope anyone who thinks they are above the law or even just bending the rules will finally understand that WE will not tolerate it! And that poaching is a crime that will ruin the rest of their pathetic lives! Can ya tell I'm PISSED?
 
I just read an article in the Salt Lake Tribune that said this about one of the poachers.....

Court records show that Hoover pleaded no contest in 2004 to a misdemeanor count of wanton wildlife destruction. He was sentenced to 355 days on work diversion at the Utah County Jail and two years of probation.

I thought his name sounded familiar when I saw it. This kid has been in trouble before for poaching. I lived west of Lehi from 2002 to 2003 and come across a couple of deer in the fields around cedar fort on the winter range caped out with heads missing. From my understanding( and of course I could be wrong) he was living in Cedar Fort at that time and may have been poaching in various places for a long time.

Does anybody else know anything about that?
 
Nothing gets me more than stories like this! I absolutely hate this kind of stuff. IF they are guilty of the charges, I hope they get as harsh a penalty as the law will allow. Some guys think they are above the law and above the ethics and standards most of us try to live by. It's sad to see, but its also good to see them get caught.
 
Hold your horses, you all are only getting one side of the story. They are innocent until proven guilty.
 
jackrussell- What do you think they could say in their defense? Do you honestly think it would be all over the news if there wasn't some hard evidence? I know, I know...OJ was found not guilty, but everyone knows he did it!

Steve
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-09 AT 08:11AM (MST)[p]Right there with you Wiszard! The DWR would not have made charges and it would not have been on the news with names released if they didnt have pretty solid evidence. We are not getting out of the gates early, we are just getting fed up with idiots pulling crap like this and we are all ready to see them crash and burn!!
 
I have only heard one side of the story. There are always two sides to everything, whether people like it or not. I am against poaching 100%, I am also one who believes in the judicial system of this country 100%. Innocent until proven guilty, and that falls on the state to prove beyond a reasonalble doubt. These men don't have to say anything in their defense, it is not up to them to prove their innocence. O.J. was aquitted of murder, whether I agree with that descison or not, I have to respect it. That is what our country is based on. These men are alleged poachers and not actual poachers until due process is complete and a verdict rendered.
 
Thanks for the lesson jackrussel. Im pretty sure their all toast. No need to defend these clowns anymore.
 
>Hold your horses, you all are
>only getting one side of
>the story. They are innocent
>until proven guilty.

Lol. I think finding 18 fresh heads/mounts in a guys house is already enough evidence for me to think he's a piece of $hit for taking advantage of the system over law abiding citizens like myself. Who gives a rats @$$ whether our "legal system" finds him guilty or not. In my eyes having 18 2 year old or newer mounts in your house is enough to constitute that you're probably doing something wrong and/or shady. I want to see all 250+ people that put in for all seasons of the Vernon hunt stand in line and each get a shot at all 4 of these F***ers! And if you're one of the 4 "accused" poachers in this case and your sitting there reading this and are getting pretty pissed off then I'm glad. Also I hope you never own another hunting license in any state again. Each year you're wanting to hunt I hope you sit on your couch/cell and think of how much fun all of us TRUE SPORTSMAN are having and how you'll never be out there again!!! Oh sorry I forgot to mention that I only mean this if you're proven guilty. Yea right! In this case I think it's guilty until proven innocent.
 
You never know until both sides of the story come out. You folks with closed minds should have more respect for the judicial system in this country.
 
>
>Lol. I think finding 18 fresh
>heads/mounts in a guys house
>is already enough evidence for
>me to think he's a
>piece of $hit for taking
>advantage of the system over
>law abiding citizens like myself.
>Who gives a rats @$$
>whether our "legal system" finds
>him guilty or not. In
>my eyes having 18 2
>year old or newer mounts
>in your house is enough
>to constitute that you're probably
>doing something wrong and/or shady.
>I want to see all
>250+ people that put in
>for all seasons of the
>Vernon hunt stand in line
>and each get a shot
>at all 4 of these
>F***ers! And if you're one
>of the 4 "accused" poachers
>in this case and your
>sitting there reading this and
>are getting pretty pissed off
>then I'm glad. Also I
>hope you never own another
>hunting license in any state
>again. Each year you're wanting
>to hunt I hope you
>sit on your couch/cell and
>think of how much fun
>all of us TRUE SPORTSMAN
>are having and how you'll
>never be out there again!!!
>Oh sorry I forgot to
>mention that I only mean
>this if you're proven guilty.
>Yea right! In this case .
>I think it's guilty until
>proven innocent.

It narrow minded people like you that are contributing to the demise of this country. Innocent until proven guilty... Without this we might as well and throw out the entire constitution. Then we could hang a sign that says " WELCOME TO CHINA ".
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-09 AT 04:15PM (MST)[p]Yep exactly. Nice grammar by the way pal. Our constitution has a lot more in it than just our legal system. If you think our legal system is why I'm proud to be an American then YOU should think about moving to China. And narrow minded? I'm contributing to the "demise" of this country? The way you talk you probably voted for Obama huh? And if you want to call me out and say things like that $hit then I got 3 words for ya. COME SEE ME!
 
Relax fella. If you don't want to hear the other side turn a deaf ear, and you are being narrow minded, like it or not. That is what our nation of laws are based on, whether you believe that or not. What the hell are you talking about calling someone out, this is the internet. You need to calm down and count to ten before you speak. INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
 
I should be the one calling you little fella with the name jackrussel. What make's you even fathom that these guys are innocent? So back to your OJ quote. Do you think OJ was innocent of murder because the courts said he was? Or do you think he ran from the cops for X amount of hours with helicopters overhead possibly because he might HAVE been guilty? Pick your poison. Just because the courts said you did/didn't do something doesn't tell the true story whether you like it or not. Ever heard of exoneration? Do you think that falsely accused guy sitting in prison for many years believed that he actually DID commit the crime because the courts told him so? I do believe in "THE SYSTEM" but can't say I agree with the penalties. We both have our own opinions and to each man his own which I completely respect. So with that said sorry for bashing your first comments. And yes, they are "technically" innocent until the courts say otherwise. Like previously said, the state needs to make an example out of a case like this to at least put somewhat of a fear in the eyes of potential poachers. Truce? Lol
 
jack I will respect the judicial system of the U.S. when no killer,pedophile,robber, or in this case poacher walks, and the victim is treated better than the crook. The Judicial system in this country looks like swiss cheese jack theres a loop hole for everything.
18 fresh heads, names released to the press, had previous wildlife violations in the past. What part of rock solid evidence dont you understand? I realize as well as most all of us on this site minus you and a few others (who thinks these guys are innocent)that there might be lesser charges for some of these individuals than others. As for our lovley liberal system of government,judges, and liberal lawyers who think there is no such thing as a crime you wont see me putting as much stock in our judicial system as you do. Oh but what do I know Im a narrow minded person and proud of it.
 
We need to be united when they go to court we need to show up at the court house and show the poachers of this state that we have had enough.Someone said that maybe hoover had been in trouble in 2004 and got what, its time to qiut being ****** and start hurting them were it hurts in fines no hunting no guns and if they cant pay the fines sell there outdoor equipment that they used to shoot those deer there trucks scopes binos trailers 4 wheelers what ever they have until we hit them in the pocket book and take what they have !!! hey jack Im glad you belive in system because there very few that does ,If they are guilty what do you think jack they should get do you think they should ever be able to hunt again do you think they owe a apolgy to all permit holders this year and last year do you think they should ever be allowed on that unit again even if there just looking,this is very strong case.Jack they have dna on this case its going to be hard to get around that one read the hearld about the one pantos running to the barn when he got the call that his buddy powell was getting busted .GOODLUCK .
 
GOOD GAWD!!!

IF I EVER GET CAUGHT SPEEDING,CAN I HAVE jackyRUSSELL AS MY DEFENSE ATTORNEY???

THESE LOWLIFE BASTARDS ARE GUILTY jacky!!!

WE DONE TRIED THEM RIGHT HERE ON MM!!!

HANG EM HIGH!!!

AND!!!

HANG EM QUICK!!!

YES jacky,THERE ARE GUILTY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD!!!

AND AS FAR AS YOU RESPECTING THE SYSTEM WITH O.J.???

WELL THATS YOUR CHOICE BUT I'M NOT RESPECTING IT!!!

YES jacky,OUR SYSTEM IS TWISTED SOMETIMES & FAILS AT TIMES,THE WORLD AIN'T PERFECT!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
If they are convicted they should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I also believe that the poaching laws are not strict enough, alot of laws for that matter. If convicted of poaching on this large of scale, they should not be permitted to hunt again in Utah, and I would hope that the other states would honor that as well. I believe someone who is convicted of DUI should never be allowed to have a drivers license again ever. I however have seen too many times that a state has what seems to be overwhelming evidence against someone, and then when the trial comes and the other side is told, it is not always what the state made it out to be. I do believe the justice system works, is it perfect? No but what is for that matter. If they are truly guilty and the state does its job from the DWR to the D.A. they will be convicted. I believe everyone should have there day in court. We as citizens of this great nation need to respect the descisions of the courts, whether we agree with the outcome or not, for if we don't we will find ourselves on the wrong side of the law.
 
Talk about narrow minded. There is a great chance that no-one on here is more narrow minded than bobcat. Are you kidding me? You must be a complete moron to open your pie hole in the manner you have about them being guilty and tried here. It is people like you that soil this country. You sound alot like a man from the past with the first name of Adolf. You have heard only a tiny piece of what evidence that the state has. I agree that from what I have read and seen on the news that things dont look good for them, but get real. This is America after all and jack is right. They are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, not some stinkin web-site.
 
GEEZUS HOMEY!!!

YOU DON'T GET IT DO YA???

THERES BEEN ALOT OF TRIALS HERE ON MM!!!

BUT I GUESS WITH YOUR WHOPPIN 5 POSTS YOU'VE MISSED A FEW OF THEM???

WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLACE A BET HOMEY OF RATHER THEY ARE INNOCENT OR GUILTY???

I'VE ONLY LOST MONEY ONCE AND THAT WAS WITH COPPER BOY!!!

SOME OF THEM HAVE BEEN CONVICTED BEFORE WHICH DOESN'T REALLY PROVE ANYTHING BUT IF YOU'D LIKE TO PLACE A WAGER I'M A BETTIN MAN!!!

YA,GIVE THEM A TRIAL,WASTE SOME MORE MONEY,PROVE THEM GUILTY,SLAP THEIR HANDS LIGHTLY & HOPE THEY DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!

WAKE TF UP HOMEY!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
Bess, don't you know that 'innocent until proven guilty' applies to you and not just the courts. Silly boy. Pay attention to these Harvard Law boys and you just might learn something. Now if these legal beagles can stop the mods around here from violating freedom of speech we'll make some decent progress.

498a6f395e505405.jpg
 
I would not bet one way or the other, I try and keep an open mind, no matter what the situation. If they are guilty I hope they are punished and heavily. I just hate the thoughts of people like you trampeling my rights as an american. The right to a fair trial. Yeah I have only made 5 posts on here, but I frequent this site and read alot of crap that you spread on here. This just so happens to strike a nerve with me in regards to due process.
 
Scrillznac, You are right on the money man, I agree with you 100%. I feel bad for those who drew that tag this year, and wonder how much if effected our hunt out there last year. I hope they get it, especially since one of those poachers has been in trouble for this stuff before.
 
EASY meat_saw!!!

NEVER TRAMPLED YOUR RIGHTS!!!

YOU HAVE YOUR OPPINION & I HAVE MINE!!!

YOU FRIENDS WITH THE INNOCENT JACK-ASSES OR WHAT???

AS I POSTED ABOVE!!!

YA,GIVE THEM A TRIAL,WASTE SOME MORE MONEY,PROVE THEM GUILTY,SLAP THEIR HANDS LIGHTLY & HOPE THEY DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!

YOU NEED TO VISIT & READ MY THREAD UP ON THE CAMPFIRE!!!

YOU EITHER LIKE POACHERS MORE THAN I DO OR YOU LOOK AT THINGS DIFFERENT???

BET IF THE SAME JOKERS WOULD OF STOLE SOMETHING OUT OF YOUR TRUCK YOU'D HAVE A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE!!!

TO ME ITS THE SAME,THEY STOLE FROM YOU,YOUR FAMILY & YOUR FRIENDS!!!

I DON'T LIKE A F'N THIEF,ESPECIALLY GAME THIEFS!!!

((( F'N = FRICKEN!!! )))



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
ROTFLMAO!!!!!! That is the funniest thing I've ever read. I can see it now.

Your Honor, I move to have this case dismissed on the grounds that Bess, aka Bobcatbess, as well as janes and john does of monster muleys dot com have violated my clients due process.

Thank you defense I will hold to dismiss this case and further hold bobcatbess in contempt of this court for this travesty which has trodden your clients rights.

498a6f395e505405.jpg
 
YA!!!

IT'S ALL MY FAULT!!!

BEST NOT TRY THEM IN DUCHESNE COUNTY,THEY'LL NEVER GET A FAIR TRIAL HERE!!!


"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
Due process went out the window with rowe vs. wade. if you can legally kill your own babies then justice is a joke on the road to hell. Oh yeah, save OJ though...lol
 
Poaching is a crime and should carry severe punishment. I just hate to see due process denied. Thats the bottom line, everyone is entitled to their day in court. O.J. had his and was aquitted, whether I agree or disagree is irrelevent. ONE MUST RESPECT THE JUDICAL SYSTEM, OR SOON WE WILL FIND OURSELVES ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE LAW.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-09 AT 10:57PM (MST)[p]I know a guy who was prosecuted for a wildlife violation and having known how the whole situation went down it was almost comical to read the division of wildlife's public statement. Just because something is written in ink or is aired on the news doesn't mean it is 100% accurate.Let it play out in the courts and once a conviction has been pronounced feel free to sling mud if it makes you feel better.

I've learned there are two sides to every story and generally the public only hears one side.

Man, when the MM lynch mob smells blood' it's like a feeding frenzy!Geesh....at least wait for a conviction.

Yea, our Judicial system aint perfect but it's the best we got. The problem with this country is every Tom, #####, and Harry that has a TV and watches the 10 o'clock news takes everything reported for face value.

It's pretty comfortable for people to sit behind their computers and cry, "guilty until proven innocent", but I'll bet if the judicial system had you by the balls you hope it was the other way around.

And for anyone interested, they just reported on the news tonight that ocean front property in AZ is selling for cheap!
 
LMAO bobcat I agree with bobcat here they will get off with some lame ass reduced sentance not having to pay the fines I hope for once the judge has some balls and throws the book at them instead of slap on the wrist
 
The deer must have migrated into his garage and be-headed themselves. I can see one, maybe two doing that but 18. He must have been set up by the State because they had nothing better to do.
 
"It's pretty comfortable for people to sit behind their computers and cry, "guilty until proven innocent", but I'll bet if the judicial system had you by the balls you hope it was the other way around."


Actually bro I CAN sit behind my computer and cry "guilty until proven innocent" and not worry about the other way around you know why? I OBEY THE F-IN LAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ONE THING I DO KNOW!!!

AS I'VE SEEN MANY TIMES IN MY LIFE!!!

THE DWR INVESTIGATES ALOT OF THESE CASES FOR YEARS!!!

FIRST OFFENDERS ONLY GET THEIR ASSES HARDLY SLAPPED!!!

SOME OF THESE SAME JOKERS/POACHERS HAVE TRIED THIS B.S. IN THE PAST!!!

THEY/THE LAW DIDN'T DO MUCH TO THEM SO THEY GET TO THINKING::: LET'S TRY IT SOME MORE!!!

READ MY PROPOSAL FOR FIRST OFFENSE UP ON THE GENERAL FORUM!!!

YOU WANNA HEAR THE SECOND OFFENSE CONSEQUENCES jacky???

SO jacky???

WHEN THE LAW BREAKERS GO THROUGH THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND PULL A SMOOTH ONE OFF AND GET OFF THE CHARGES EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW FOR A FACT (YOU SEEN EM WITH YOUR OWN EYES BREAK THE LAW!!!) THEY WERE/ARE GUILTY DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT???

SORRY!!!

POACHERS ARE IN THE SAME BRACKET AS CHILD MOLESTERS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED!!!

A CHILD MOLESTER SHOULD BE THROWED IN WITH A BIG OLE BUBBA!!!

POACHERS SHOULD BE GUT SHOT!!!

SORRY,I HAVE A THIN RESISTANCE FOR GAME THIEFS!!!









"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON May-17-09 AT 12:08PM (MST)[p]Well bobby, you are wacked in the head if you think that a child molesting and poaching are in the same bracket. There is not a sane mind that would think that way. It does not make it right if someone actually commits a crime and is aquitted in court, however we must respect that descision. That person will ultimatley have to answer to a higher power some day, some sooner than others. I can see you have little resitance for game thiefs, I too will not tolerate it. However I see that you are also lacking in the area of common sense. To gut shoot someone for poaching would do nothing but put you into the judicial system just as these men accused of poaching. However you might feel better knowing that you would be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
 
WELL jacky!!!

THAT'S WHAT I FIGURED YOU'D SAY!!!

IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES THEY DON'T PLAY GAMES!!!

THEY CATCH YOU STEALING THEY CUT YOUR HAND OFF!!!

THEFT CRIMES ARE ALMOST NON-EXISTENT IN THEM PLACES!!!

I WONDER WHY???

THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET A TRIAL jacky,WTF???

SEEMS TO WORK THOUGH jacky!!!

YOU'RE RIGHT,CHILD MOLESTERS ARE RIGHT ABOVE POACHERS ON THE LIST IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER???

I SHOULD OF NEVER JUDGED THEM EQUAL,MY BAD!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
I could not agree with you more about other countries having stiffer penalties, like cutting off hands and fingers for stealing, that would be great if we did that hear. I am all for stiffer penalties in regards to all crime, as long as everyone is given their day in court. That is the bottom line and that is what makes america the greatest country on earth.


Long live the modena ghost.
 
Schrillznac, you may "obey the F-IN law" but that doesn't mean you'll never be on the other side of it wether your innocent or not. Innoncent people are ran through the court systems every day. Our founding fathers established the principles of innocent until proven guilty. We all get that you think it should be the other way......maybe you should move to China.

Mike
 
Innocent until proven guilty I think not!

The way I see it is your guilty until you prove yourself innocent. That is how it really is.

Right now they are guilty and they will have to prove themselves innocent!
 
Wrong answer buckmaster, maybe you need to take a civics lesson and refresh that melon of yours. This in not the peoples republic of china. This country was founded on the presumption of innocence until proven guilty by a court of law. Not some lump with a soft spot on his head.
 
Jack apparently you don't know jack. How many speeding tickets have you gotten.

Every one I have seen they ticket you
They expect money
They know you're guilty
You have to prove you're innocent

The judge ask cop if you are guilty
You still pay fine
You probably pay a higher fine then was on the ticket

Apparently you don't know jack!

It is always up to you to prove your innocent!
 
If you get a speeding ticket and you dont feel you are guilty, you dont need to pay the ticket, you need to go to the court date. Most tickets have a date to appear on or pay a fine by a certain date. You will stll be given the same treatment, innocent until proven guilty. I have never been given a bogus speeding ticket, every time I have been ticket I was speeding. It will still be up to the state to prove you were speeding. Not up to you that you were not. You cant change the rules just because you dont agree or undertsand, I dont know which, I really dont care either way. In this country you are presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, PERIOD.
 
Jackrussel--"I am also one who believes in the judicial system of this country 100%."

LMAO!! That right there proves you have never been to court or represented anyone. If you think the judicial system in this country is fair, just wait until you get your day in court. Do you have big dreams of being a lawyer or something?
 
Anytime you have to spend a heck of a lot of your own money to prove you are innocent there is a problem "smoke" just like in your speeding ticket.


They will have to prove their innocent because according to the courts they are guilty. They just haven't been sentenced yet!


Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
Its all Horseshit, and the only reason you have not realized it yet is because you both havebeen laying in it too long. Get up go outside and get some fresh air. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial. Perhaps you haven't heard that if you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you at not cost. These are people we call public defenders. So take that theory of yours and dump it when you take out the trash. I hope that if convicted they are punished dearly for the crimes they have committed, but most importantly I hope they recieve a fair trial. Everyone is entitled to this even a couple of numbskulls like you two.
 
I hope you are just "pulling our legs" here. If you are, then you got me "hook, line, and sinker". If your not, then you are the most naive person I think I have ever met. Good luck in your endeavors. Given what has already been reported, what do you think these poachers could possibly claim as a defense?
 
LAST EDITED ON May-18-09 AT 10:46PM (MST)[p]Well, this thread could keep going and going and going and going......and going.......and going.....just like professor jackrussel and his ethics/morals/civic law disources........But, until the planets line up, the Gods intervene and professor jackrussel does us all a favor and steps down from the podium and pauses to take a much needed breath, a few of us "idiots" and "morons" and "numbskulls" here on MM....including myself, and Bobcat, and swbuckmaster will have to sit in the corner of your classroom and face the wall and wear the dunce hat......again.....while you hand out fruit roll-ups and smurfs while lecturing to the rest of your MENSA-Minded students...some more.... about the theories, nuances and rhetoric of the American Judicial System and other prudent (and fascinating!!!!!) subjects clearly too complex for simple minds like ours to even come close to understanding............. However, outside your fuzzy happy little classroom door is a place we like to call "the real world." In this real world lives and ugly little monster called the "court of public opinion." Have you ever heard of this court? Lets say it together...."Court of Public Opinion"....Good!!! That big phrase has no pictures with it or no scratch and sniff stickers next to it, so it may to hard for some of us here on MM......like Bobcat....and swbuckmaster....and me....to understand. So let's use smaller wording that means the same thing.....Let's use "Common Sense".......Now hold on jackrussell, it's okay if you havent heard this word before!! It's not new to the dictionary, but may be new to you.....Actually I have no doubt its new to you. That's okay....Take a breath. But those of us who have used this "common sense," do so every day and it allows to identify and separate the cream from the crap. These poachers.....arent the cream.
 
I think they will get a fair trial in juab county there from utah county but one, I have a copy of the court papers there is six counts on rex creed powell,Joseph m .pantos has 5 counts on him,3ounts on Chris k.vanceand only one count on ryan g. hoover.They all have been charged with wanton destruction,You know that the guy with one count is going to get a slap on the wrist!Unless thay have video of him poaching or a eye witness of him taking a deer,I think everybody is so outraged about what has happened.and have seen in the past guys getting away with this stuff and it pisses everybody off.I just hope they make them pay the fine on all of trophy deer which is 7 at 8000 and 500 for every other one so 56000 and 5500 for the other bucks grand total 61,500 lost hunting rights in every state in the west hell all of north america.sounds good I will be happy then.
 
News flash luckshot, I have never once refered to them as the cream. If they are convicted I hope none of them are allowed to hunt again. This has never been about what they are accused of, not being a crime. This has never been about what kind of defense they can use. This has only ever been about the presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law. The court of public opponion means nothing. The O.J. Simpson case should have proved that to you. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial regardless of what you or any of your MM pals think. THIS IS HOW IT WORKS IN THE REAL WORLD, AND THANK GOD IT DOES.
 
"The O.J. Simpson case should have proved that to you. Everyone is entitled to a fair trial regardless of what you or any of your MM pals "


Ya the O.J. Simpson trial only proved HOW SCREWED UP THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM REALLY IS. And if you have enough money and hire the best laywer and you play DUMB you can get away with anything. Hell, you can even run from the cops on live tv, Have blood on your truck.



Come on Jackedrussel enough of the Crap.
 
Is it perfect, NO, but it is the best there is anywhere. Lets just hope that the DWR does their job and the D.A. does their job. If all that happens and they have enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, they will be found guilty, and punished accordingly. If not there will be alot of whining on this site for sure.
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

LAST EDITED ON May-19-09 AT 06:34PM (MST)[p]Dang, I was hoping this thread would die but since it hasn't here is my two cents worth. I have had personal experience with the law enforcement arm of the UDWR. Back in the mid 80's I was charged by said agency for illegal harvest of a Black Bear. Several taxidermy shops were raided by DWR officers and my bear hide was confiscated because there was no tag on hide or in taxis possesion. I was charged and I plead . I was able to provide proof of legal harvest and all charges were dropped. In the court of public opinion I may have been found guilty because of outward appearance of evidence by the state. I hesitate to even bring this to light because of the holier than thou attitude of so many that use this website...but I would be willing to bet that very few long time hunters are completely [100 percent] of every game law on the books. So "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" I for one am very glad that the judicial system does actually work and although it cost me a few hundred in legal fees I had my day in court and justice prevailed.
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

Dikdirt, if you only spent a few hundred dollars in legal fees, even in the 80's, you did well.
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

My lawyer thought the state's case was really weak and they were just trying to get a confession. The original prosecutor assigned to the case turned up absent on the trial date...this was after the state asked for and was granted 2 continuance's. Good lawyer.. reduced his fees by half.
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

Jack Russell,

I like your take on the speeding ticket, but there is a big difference. A speeding ticket is a violation that is not punishable by time in jail, a fine only.

There is a huge difference between a crime and a violation. If it is 100% not guilty till proven in court then how come a judge can set no bail on a crime and hold you in jail until your trial date even if it is over a year away. You have not been convicted of anything, a grand jury has indicted you. Its because the judicial system is set up that way so even if you have not been proven guilty you maybe a danger to the public and are kept in jail based upon probable cause that you committed the crime you are accused of. Can you imagine letting a child molester go because he hasn't been proven guilty yet.

What most people don't understand is that most wildlife violations can be charged as a violation (fine only) or a crime (jail time). In Oregon it is up to the prosector to decide which way to prosecute these types of cases. If you are a serial poacher that has 18 beheaded deer that migrated to your garage you are probably going to get the crime option. If you made a mistake and shot a buck and the bullet hit a doe and can prove it was an accident you probably will get the violation treatment, pay the fine and be done. The system is not as black and white as you see it, you have passion though.

Rich
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

Nugent,


It sounds like you were in on the whole deal. that or you cuddle up with them at night. Sorry but they were GUILTY the moment 18 heads were taken out of there garage. Now they will have to come up with some DA excuse and story trying to claim their innocence.

Dink in the dirt's story is night and day different then what these Low life scums have done.

Hold on while I look for a few more Stones!
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

Bobcatbess your my hero! I agree with you 100%. Just wish you were in a office of power, unlike most of the spineless poeple.
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

Just as long as they receive a fair trial.


Long Live The MODENA GHOST.
 
RE: 18 deer poached- 4 men charged. Does this anyone else off?

LAST EDITED ON May-20-09 AT 06:56PM (MST)[p]News Flash, if you have more than 18 trophy heads you are by MM standards a poacher. Dang, some of this stuff borders on hilarious!Man, some of you guys will believe anything.

I believe cases like dikndrt case is more common than a lot of people think and is the main reason you want a conviction in place before you throw your stones.I hope if these guys are convicted that justice is served and the penalties are harsh.

Nugents post holds some water.Their are plenty of guys that aint man enough to own up to some of the trival wildlife laws they have broken either intentionally or unintentionally. I'd wager that many of the ones throwing rocks are these very people.

Mike
 
Jackrussell,

I can agree totally with you on a fair trial and due process. I'm just curious, since you've sort of played the devils advocate on this thread, what will your position be IF these guys are found guilty? Don't give me some "standardized" answer either. I want details/specifics. As long as your passion for "fair" punishment is as strong as your passion for a fair trial, I am totally cool with your stand (and commend you for keeping your cool despite the pounding you've taken on here). Oh and just one point I'd like to bring up, what significance does loosing ones hunting priveleges (for life) really mean to a POACHER? Hit em where it really hurts-in the wallet!
 
I agree taking someones hunting rights means nothing to a poacher. I am not sure what the law in utah is for punishment on these guys if convicted. If they are convicted they should be given the most of whatever the fines can be, as well as the most jail time that can be given for the crime. Indeed the best way to hurt convicted poachers is through the pocket book. I would like to see laws changed so that the fines are so high, that someone convicted of this type of vilations are hurt so bad financially that it would take years to recoup from the fines. Then maybe there would be more of a deterent against these type of crimes. It is obvious that being a convicted felon and threat of losing guns and vehicles is not enough. Along with the huge fines, tie it to the persons credit so that it truly ruins someone financially, maybe then people will think before they act. It for sure that the laws dont have near enough teeth in them. Then again that wont discourage everyone, there is always going to be those who just dont care regardless of the punishments. Some people are just that way, whether it is murder, robbery, poaching or any other crime for that matter.
 
Scrillznac, You are right on the money man, I agree with you 100%. I feel bad for those who drew that tag this year, and wonder how much if effected our hunt out there last year. I hope they get it, especially since one of those poachers has been in trouble for this stuff before.


IM ONE OF THOSE THAT DREW THE TAG WHAT A CRAPPY DEAL. I THINK OLE JACKRUS IS IN ON THE SITUATION ALSO. HE JUST TRYING TO COVER HIS BUTT..
THANKS FOR THE CRAPPY HUNT THIS YEAR GUYS .....
 
Look here southy, I dont know what the hell you mean by in on the situation, I think you best rethink your comment, I have no reason to cover my butt for anything. Maybe you should know a little something about what you are talking about before you go shooting off your mouth.
 
Latest from UDWR:

Prison Time and More Than $60,000 in Fines​


Men charged with poaching 18 deer​

Provo -- Four Utah County men have been charged with killing 18 buck deer in Juab County.

Seven of the deer had antler spreads of more than 24 inches, making them ?trophy? animals under Utah law. One of the seven deer was a massive buck with a 30-inch antler spread.

The case is one of the state?s biggest poaching cases in recent memory.

Thirty-eight-year-old Rex Powell, 42-year-old Joseph Pantos, 30-year-old Ryan Hoover and 21-year-old Chris Vance face third-degree felony or misdemeanor counts for wanton destruction of protected wildlife, more commonly known as poaching.

Officers with the Division of Wildlife Resources have been investigating the case since 2007, when members of the public began discovering deer carcasses within the boundaries of the well-known Vernon limited entry deer hunting unit.

The investigation led officers to Powell?s home. Officers seized three mounted deer heads and 15 sets of antlers after serving a search warrant in March 2009.

The four men now face time in prison and more than $60,000 in fines.

They may also lose their hunting privileges in 31 states involved in the Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact.


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Just wondering if anyone can confirm the rumor I heard that a taxidermist from Pleasant Grove had mounted some of those deer heads and was in possession of alot of the antlers when the bust came down. If so.....what kind of penalty will he get for taking in these animals without the proper "hunting tags" on them. If this is true....I feel like five men should of been charged.
 
I am not sure but the tag stays on the meat in Utah. I have never been asked by a taxidermist to see or write down the tag number. I however have had the meat locker keep the tag.

I personly think we need a two tag system. one for horns and one for meat.


Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
In Nevada you have to give the taxidermist a taxidermy stub that comes along with your tag.
 

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