2009-2010 Regs available online!

hunting1

hunting1

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Lots of changes for 09! Looks like we got our wish of Fees Up Front! Looks like the every 2-years for Q/HD units as well. Sorry if this is old news, I just found it.

Larry
 
At over 3000$, I guess it will affect the number of non-residents applying for bighorn sheep, don't you think ?

Martin
 
Wow, started reading last night. Lots to digest.

Looks like they increased the number of unit 34 deer tags. What are they thinking???

They used HD/Q less than I thought they would.

There will be some good opportunities.

As far as sheep tags. Odds may be a little better, but, non res sheep hunters will continue to put in the big bucks for tags.

Dont expect sheep tag drawing % to change much.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-08 AT 10:47AM (MST)[p]Paul,
I'm fixing to go through the roof on this one!@!! Just looked to see what you were referring to on the 34 deer tags and I gotta say as a guy who only puts in for bow hunts I'm feeling a little left out!!! They cut the 34 deer tags from 800 to 350 and put it as HD. Someone is singling out bowhunters! To quote a FAMOUS MMer "WTF???!!!!??!!" If I wanna hunt deer I will have to go clear across the state every other year. All hunts for bow in this corner are Q/HD. 2400 total rifle plus the youth and MI and they give me 350? 2500 in unit 30 and I get a chance at one of 300??
 
Curtis I know what your saying for sure. Our deer population is hanging on by a thread and it seems they want to kill em all.

Take a deep breath. Do what I am going to do. I am going to re read the whole thing again when I get a chance.

I already think I have some ideas that will get me and my family some awesome hunts next year.

Just remember. For the most part it is the same number of hunts, they just confuse things and hopefully we can take advantage of the confusion they create.

Curtis what are your thoughts on making 2 archery seasons for elk and calling the first one a Q hunt and the 2nd a standard hunt. I would think it would be just the opposite.
 
I don't think they want to kill them all. I have been accused of being a little more than cynical in the past but I truly believe that those in the decision making process are a bunch of lazy POS'. They went to this whole draw thing in the name of conservation but don't even take the time to put real science to it! I actually called someone in the Roswell office when they first put the numbers up for the first deer draw and was told that they got the number of licenses from first choice apps the year it was unlimited. Now that everything has gone draw there are a lot of people putting in for bow as second and even third choice which given the way the system works can possibly give them a bow tag when they don't even own a bow. We had a pretty good conversation about the whole thing and I thought that maybe something would come of it but so far ZERO results. Now a 450 license cut to the bow tags in 34. I just gotta know what are they thinking?????
As for the second hunt being standard Paul. It's really not much to it. They are taking the lazy way out again when they and we know what you're saying is right. The sit out isn't going to happen till the 2010 season and by then they will have their data to justify their decisions. Although..... the rut never really happened this year so should they take the Q out for next year?? I bet that doesn't happen!!
 
Paul/Curtis,
I protested to high heaven during the comment period and got no response. I even asked for a response and got not a peep regarding the 34 deer fiasco. This is how I see it - we don't see the harvest numbers we want, so let's throw more hunters t it (and very low bow success)... Instead, maybe they should listen to people like me who hunt our butts off and never see a legal buck. As far as the elk bow season split, this redneck will be applying for the "horrible late-september second season".... ouch...

DC
 
Curtis,
You are so right about the rut never really hitting this year. I hunted with PABlackBear and Sandy during bow season and they were bugling some, but not like I expected, so I thought I'd have the hook-up for my Muzzy... Instead, my bull had already dumped his cows by 8 Oct. Unless it peaked during the youth hunt between theirs and mine, I saw no traditional rut this year for elk in 34.

DC
 
The new proclamation can be viewed on the departments website.
I think it's high time I started making some phone calls. I have never bothered calling the individual commissioners but you can bet that since I don't have to be at work until 530 tomorrow afternoon there are going to be some hard questions to be answered or perhaps dodged tomorrow morning. I can't think of a time when I was so ticked off at the people who make the rules. I wonder.... if we all gave them a call would it make a difference?
 
I thought the rut was pretty good in 34, just a little late. We had good bugling from the 8th on with many days of "all day" bugling.

1st Bow Elk hunt in 34 being HD and 2nd hunt being S is a little strange. Technically, (my mind anyway) they have no data as those are 2 new hunts.

Both 36's are S hunts? Not worth a phone call to get them stirred up but something seems a little odd here.
 
Technically you are right but really if a 1-22 hunt was Q then two hunts in the same period are too.
Well, I did it. Just sent off a letter to the comments person(whoever that is!) at game and fish. Probably wont draw another tag in this state for the rest of my life but dammit someone's gotta call a spade a spade and I will! If there's one thing I cannot do it's keep my mouth shut when stuffs all messed up! Bowhunters taking it from behind on this one....
 
OOPS!!!! and that was one of my complaints in my letter. Oh well. This way I can be appologetic and seem like not such the #@!hole my letter makes me sound like....LOL
 
I was reading on another site that one of the commissioners is as anti bow as you can get. (yeah, I'm two timing sue me) not sure which one it was but they said he was very open about it. They can say what they want about it but this is all about the bucks.....not deer!!
 
I do not want to turn this pollitical, but with the way NM votes, this will always be the outcome with the directors!

I was also looking at the TBD cow elk hunts and they have high numbers as well. I am not Chuck Adams , but I spend as much time out hiking and whatever around the state and I do not see these huge herds of animals that they are issuing so many tags for.

The only bad I see about cash up front (all other western states do it) is it may hurt some youth hunters, but I like it.

The Q/HD I am for it for opportunities for others and because alot of the "S" hunts are my favorites.

Good luck, my $.02 rant!
 
In the NMDGF under news release it say the every other year restrictions start on the 2010-2011 season!I was under the impression that they take affect this season?
 
CoolArrow - They both basically say the same thing, just worded differently. If you draw a Q/HD tag (elk, deer, pronghorn) in the upcoming 2009 season, you cant apply for a Q/HD tag for that species in the 2010 season.

I think it is great that tags available to youth hunters for deer have been greatly increased. During deer season (any legal sporting arm), I am counting 915 more tags available to youth as compared to last year.

I also like the fact that they have established an additional MB Elk hunt in 51, but kept the total amout of tags relatively the same as last year. This equates to 100 less hunters in 51 per bull hunt. Should make getting away from people a little easier and keep us all safer in the field.

Lastly, I really agree with what they have done with the elk hunts on the Valle Vidal. It looks like they reduced the number of bulls tags by 78 compared to last year (93 less rifle tags, 5 more ML tags, 10 more bow in 2009). Yeah that is going to make this tag that much harder to draw, but when you do draw you will be in for a great hunt.

Just my initial thoughts on what I have digested so far.
 
Well at least I got a "we got your letter" this time!

Thank you for your comment, I will forward this message to our Wildlife Management Division and have someone contact you back.

Thank you again,

NM Dept of Game & Fish
Public Information & Outreach
1 Wildlife Way/PO Box 25112
Santa Fe, NM 87507
Ph: (505) 476-8000
web: www.wildlife.state.nm.us

Do you really think someone will? I'm not going to hold my breath!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-08 AT 03:16PM (MST)[p]When I sent in all our comments before the comission meeting that is the same message that I got and then I got an email from their director of public relations with his cell phone number if I wanted to discuss any further business. With it being close to the holiday who knows if anyone is in the office, but you might expect something after the first of the year.

agrvarmint
 
Yeah, I got you!What thru me off is that the seasons overlap thru the year.(2008/2009,2009/2010)In the Reg it just says 2009, so thats where i that I was going have to sit out this year because I drew a Quality hunt for 2008/2009 season.It just made it more clear in the wildlife news release.
 
These new items with the every other year is not good. Draw odds still will not change only thing is that you will not be able to apply for those hunts if you do draw. NM had the best draw system in the west and now they are trying to fix something that was not broke. Well quess what happens when you do that. Yup you got it, it will break!!!!!!!! So any of you guys that likes this know how to run a calculator???? I mean come on. It is simple math to realize that yes for the first year it could improve your odds but after that same old stuff. The odds will be the same if not worst. I guess I do like the money up front for the species that they did it for. I would very much like to see that if you draw a deer tag that you get charged and complete license is sent exactly like elk.
 
Now come on fool, do you really want that? I think that the 22% cap is just about right. It has been in place for long enough that we have all gotten used to it. NRs do not affect R in the least on our draw odds. You take them out of the mix and the next thing you know all other states will ban NM residents from their draw. I for one have never hunted another state but am not willing to make that trade. I might some day.
 
I am all for Non-Residents my wish list is more control of the land tags and outfitters only allowed with land owner tags on THAT property. Now that would make me happy. I grew up on a farm and my imidiate family was allowed to shoot deer, so I understand that you should be able to do that, but there current system is screwed!
 
Honestly I think the cap is way too high. We make enough on you guys with the landowner tags. the big majority of public tags should go to the residents.
 
The new requirement for sheep fees up front will give you residents a couple less competitors this year. I have been applying for myself and my two sons for the past couple years on elk, deer and sheep. However, I'm not sure I can afford over $9K up front for all three of us. The regulations don't say when the refunds would be sent out - does any one here have any inside information as to when we could expect our $3k fees back?

I can understand why the commission is charging these fees up front and I'm not complaining. Hopefully it will increase the odds for residents to draw these coveted tags. With such few number of tags issued, NR's should be thankful that they even get a chance at one.

I applaud what NM does for youth hunters. I'm glad to see that they have increased the youth deer and elk opportunities again this year. Too bad other states can't even come close to what NM is doing for youth opportunities.

I see they have a couple new elk ES units open this year (23 and 24) as well as some late season youth encouragement hunts. It looks like I will have to do some research on these new opportunities. If anyone has any info, either good or bad, that they would be willing to share on these new youth units I would greatly appreciate it.
 
Hey Guys... I am going to track down the commission members on this one because I have a few concerns...

1) If you draw a Q/HD Deer tag you will be forced to hunt the early season the next year because are no S hunts during the late season. Will they add more S archery deer hunts or make the season longer?

2) If you draw any archery elk tag (most are Q/HD), the next year you will be very limited in the archery elk hunts you can put in for because there are very very few S archery elk hunts... You will need to hunt with a rifle or smokepole. Will they add more S archery elk hunts???

3) What happens to leftover Q/HD archery deer hunts? Every year there are a few.... If I didn't apply for a S archery hunt can I buy one of these tags????

Is there anything else I am missing?

J
 
Yes, how did they conclude that both hunts for 36 archery are S hunts yet 1st hunt in 34 is HD and the 2nd hunt is S. All of these are technically new hunts and as such don't have 2 years data.
 
Counting the landowner permits, it looks like 30% of the elk tags in NM go to non-residents. Sounds pretty high to me.
 
Not that I wouldn't like to have the better odds that reducing the NR allotment might provide, but have you all considered the potential negative impact of losing the extra dollars that NRs inject into our NM economy? I'd like to know what that potentially is before I jump on this bandwagon. I'd also like to know what impact it might have if other states decide to likewise reduce their NR allotments, thereby reducing my odds of being able to hunt there.

One thing I would like to see is NM passing reciprical restrictions on NRs similar, but applicable only to NRs from a particular state. For example, I'd like NM to pass a law that WY residents cannot hunt NM wilderness areas unless they hire a professional outfitter. I wish all of the other states would pass similar restrictions for WY residents. As you might guess, I hate the fact that as a NM resident, I'm not allowed to a DIY in a WY wilderness, but all my whining about it not going to get WY residents to do anything to change their stupid law. However, if they're suddenly subjected to the same stupidity, maybe they'll actually decide to do something about it...
 
Jamaro, Archery Elk.

Also, I have not seen a breakdown for LO tags with regard to who ends up with them, Res or NR. I know there are plenty of residents that use them, family, friends, etc.
 
The NR hunters are not the issue, it is the gross over giving away to land owners that is the problem. Cut back on those tags or give half to draw hunters. If they do not like elk and deer on their land, build them a fence. No more of these isiots going out and shooting elk, deer, and antelope when they do not get their greedy tags.
 
As you know the Dept of Game and Fish is looking for input on the Antelope tags so I asked point blank at one of the meetings and I was told 99%-100% of all LO Antelope tags go to NR. There is a thread on this subject on this forum buried.
Jason
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-30-08 AT 12:10PM (MST)[p]"Not that I wouldn't like to have the better odds that reducing the NR allotment might provide, but have you all considered the potential negative impact of losing the extra dollars that NRs inject into our NM economy? I'd like to know what that potentially is before I jump on this bandwagon. I'd also like to know what impact it might have if other states decide to likewise reduce their NR allotments, thereby reducing my odds of being able to hunt there."


Your guess is as good as mine as to the economic impact, but residents pump a lot of money into local economies also. If you are going to look at it just from an economic standpoint, then why don't you just give 90% of the tags to non-residents? I think some kind of change is in order such as putting half the landowner tags in with the public draw or reducing the number of non-resident public tags issued. From the looks of it, other states don't give near as much non-resident tags. It's my personal opinion, but the current system is not fair to the residents of NM.
 
"I was told 99%-100% of all LO Antelope tags go to NR"

My hunt this year there were 8-paid hunters and 2-draw hunters, so I believe them!
 
Not that I would ever question the info from the Game Commission, as I do not know the men, I have a hard time believing that NRs buy 99% of the landowner tags. I know a few land owners who only sell to locals due to damage from NRs and a few others who hunt their own tags. Simply because the ratio of bought:drawn is 8:2 does not mean that the NR:R is 8:2. Frankly, I like the 78:22 split (which was the original topic) and the land-owner tag issues are seperate and should be discussed that way...

IMHO,

DC
 
"Your guess is as good as mine as to the economic impact, but residents pump a lot of money into local economies also. If you are going to look at it just from an economic standpoint, then why don't you just give 90% of the tags to non-residents?"

I'm not speaking as one who benefits in any direct sort of way from the outside money. I'm just looking at from the standpoint of what would be the overall best policy for NM rather than my own selfish interests.

Basic economics dictates that outside money in much larger amounts for the same product is going to have a more positive impact on a local economy than inside money in much smaller amounts that would most likely be spent there anyway.

I have no answer for your 90% question other than to ask a similar rhetorical question: if reducing the number of NR tags will somehow make all of our lives better, then why don't we just completely eliminate all of them?
 
You guys are right.. there are two separate issues... Not to rehash them but...
I personally have little issue with the 78:22....

BUT if you just look at the numbers 61% of all tags public or LO to to NR. That is where I have the issue... Can we tell LO's who they can sell their tags to? No, but maybe we should take away the 12% outfitter tags...

J
 
A 90-10 split, counting the LO tags would be more in line with other states. I would like that!
 
In order to get that we will need to stage a MAJOR offensive... USO and Gov. Johnson really screwed us...
Look at our Sheep and Ibex tags.. These don't have the limit... This year more sheep tags went to NR's...

J
 
The current set aside for NR mostly only helps NR and outfitters. USO sold sportsman a bill of goods when they pushed this many years ago. Said one thing however meant another.

Needless to say there are a couple of areas in which the rule helps residents - not many but a few - these are usually areas like very hard to draw areas anyways.

I know most of you guys and most of the guys that write into Santa Fe are disgusted because they can't draw. Most of these guys i ask them what units they put in for. It is funny as heck cause most of them are putting in for areas that if a point system was in place probably would take 50 years to draw and that is for all 3 choices. If you have any math skills at all then it is easy to determine your odds to draw for a certain area.




We Need to all write to them about having the deer tag - your draw - you pay and get sent a tag.
 
"We Need to all write to them about having the deer tag - your draw - you pay and get sent a tag."

Guess I'm confused......elaborate please?
 
OK, So far all this discussion has been in regards to draw odds, HQ/HD issues, NR/Resident portions, etc which definately all deserve the attention.........BUT has anyone noticed the EXTRA fee that has been thrown in this year? Like the habitat stamp and Access Validation fee werent enough....now we have to pay a GAIN fee. Hopefully I am reading it wrong, its on the last two pages of the regulations. From what I can tell there are areas all over the state that folks will have to pay $15/per person to use whether its hunting, fishing, hiking, horseback riding, photography, etc. Now we have mentioned on here before that hunters and fisherman have been the only ones required to purchase these "stamps" even though there is a wide range of people who use the same land we do, just in a different way. Now it seems that they have come up with a way that ALL people who use these areas have to pay the GAIN fee. BUT for those of us who hunt and fish this is in ADDITION to the fees we already pay, i.e. habitat stamp and Access Validation fee. My math shows that this year I will be paying out $24 to the NM G & F just to get into the "public" land before I purchase all my tags.
Anyone else wondering when the fees are going to end???????

Jeff
 
Good read Jeff,

Yes that is what I read also after reading your post. So if you hunt or fish on any of the WA's listed then you will need a GAIN permit.

As far as the extra fees and when they are gonna stop. Good luck - price will keep rising every year. G&F employees need new trucks, raises, ect.

Other than that a bunch of emails, attending game commision meetings and voicing your opinions never hurt.
Well unless it is bad ideas that is.
 
I will double check on the GAIN thing when I get back... We talked about this last year and basically when the intent of the rule was that if you had a valid license you were okay... it was for people that were on Game and Fish Purchased land that they were trying to get to pay there fairshare... This is supposed to be for people like birdwatchers, hikers, bike riders... Basically people that don't purchase hunting and fishing licenses but use game and fish land..

J
 
J-

Yeah, I mentioned in my post remembering talking about this sort of thing and agree that it is a good idea for those non hunters and non fisherpeople to pay there fair share too.

BUT....I did not see anywhere in there where it says if you are a licensed hunter or fisherman with a habitat stamp and Access Validation fee that you do not have to purchase the GAIN fee. It looked to me that we will have to buy the GAIN fee along with all the bird watchers, photographers, campers, hikers, etc.

Personally I think we are purchasing a habitat stamp and a Access fee, let them buy the GAIN tag and its all good.

I will need to go back and look at it again too.

jeff
 

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