2023 Alcatraz

D

DBG3285

Active Member
Messages
888
Well Doyle and WLH didn’t guide the Alcatraz buck this year.

But it will make bessy happy.

42” wide 260 5/8”
 
Watermark, no watermark, Who cares? Here it is:

5F1A3DDC-470D-4A0B-8E93-DD294F0E19D2.jpeg
 
elkassassin said:
One Of These Years There's Gonna Be an ALCATRAZ Buck Taken With Just Friends!
Click to expand...

I’m pretty sure my favorite buck ever taken off the Island was just that way. But maybe my memory is faulty. A state draw hunter where pics are pretty tough to come by…just an absolute giant typical. Such a perfect buck mule deer specimen.
 
Vanilla said:
Remember when people tried to say all the big genetics have been shot out of AI because they issue TWO FRIGGIN TAGS PER YEAR?!?!?

Goodness, I’m glad I was never in that unbelievably wrong camp.
Click to expand...
A leading whitetail scientist by the name of Doctor Harry Jacobson from Mississippi State did research in antler genetics back in the mid 1980.

I’ve taken some college classes in the life sciences but reading and understand the scientific terminology that this research center published is far beyond my ability to understand but Jacobson told me the predominate gene for antler size is carried by the doe. I attached a more recent blurb on the subject that you might find interesting Vanilla. Jacobson is long go from the Center but his vision lives on in those that still run the program.

After visiting with Jacobson a few times I approached the bureaucrats, the Legislature and our three research Universities here in Utah to try to get someone to push for the funding to create a Mule Deer Research Center in Utah to do the kinds of research they were doing for whitetails at Mississippi State and Auburn…….. you guessed it, NADA. And here we are, nearly 40 years and when it comes to science, we still know dang little about mule deer.

Maybe someone from the forth coming generation can provoke a better response that I got.

https://www.msudeer.msstate.edu/nutrition-and-genetics.php
 
JPickett said:
makes I’ve always wondered why someone needs a guide to hunt a captive population of deer…
Click to expand...
Maybe: Habit, time limit, enjoys the interaction with the guides, intimidated, never not guided, no reason just, likes to hunt that way, wants to be sure nothing gets over looked, combination of the above……. Just for starters.

Not my thing either but we’re not all wired the same I guess. I see no problem with wanting a guide, if that works for you.
 
2lumpy said:
Maybe: Habit, time limit, enjoys the interaction with the guides, intimidated, never not guided, no reason just, likes to hunt that way, wants to be sure nothing gets over looked, combination of the above……. Just for starters.

Not my thing either but we’re not all wired the same I guess. I see no problem with wanting a guide, if that works for you.
Click to expand...
Yeah but every single guy that draws that hires a guide. Can’t be a real tough hunt to figure out, there’s what one other hunter? Buy a pretty nice window mount for the spotter for a lot less than a guide.
 
JPickett said:
Yeah but every single guy that draws that hires a guide. Can’t be a real tough hunt to figure out, there’s what one other hunter? Buy a pretty nice window mount for the spotter for a lot less than a guide.
Click to expand...
The guide is trying to claim how hard that hunt was, claiming the “hundreds of miles walked”. Trying to make that hunt something it’s not. That’s the sad part. I’m sure it fools the masses though:

958406F8-B925-42EE-B482-58A8B2B41A62.jpeg
 
It Amazes Me How Many People Think It's A CAKE WALK On ALCATRAZ!

Ya!

It Could Be Easy!

Not Quite Like What JPickett Thinks It Is!

Some Of You Think It's A Smorgasbord Of 40+ Inchers Out There!

It Ain't!

I Don't Know If That's a 500,000.00+ Dollar Buck Or Not But I Guess It Is To Some!

I Doubt There's Been Any Other Bucks Taken In The State This Year That'd Break 40"?

And I'm Not Talkin GROSS Neither!
 
SS! said:
The guide is trying to claim how hard that hunt was, claiming the “hundreds of miles walked”. Trying to make that hunt something it’s not. That’s the sad part. I’m sure it fools the masses though:

View attachment 126122
Click to expand...

Roughly 30 square mile island. Then you subtract about 1/3 of it that isn't allowed to hunt.

They almost always have this angle in the pics because the road circles the island, and it would look hilarious if in the background is a road
 
Jimmy John has found his crew. He hunts with DC every year now and obviously enjoys it. He keeps going back to them on various types of hunts.

So what is the answer to “why did he hire the guides?”

Probably “because he can.”

I’ll take a #12 with a side of kickin ranch sauce.
 
Prepping His Wallet Again For Next Years Hunts Are You Niller?

Vanilla said:
Jimmy John has found his crew. He hunts with DC every year now and obviously enjoys it. He keeps going back to them on various types of hunts.

So what is the answer to “why did he hire the guides?”

Probably “because he can.”

I’ll take a #12 with a side of kickin ranch sauce.
Click to expand...
 
You Need To Buy Me The Tag!

You Could Guide It & Become Famous!

Vanilla said:
I do think finding and killing a specific buck on the Island can probably be more difficult than most of us give it credit, but there is no need to make into something it is not.

The hunt is fine. I’d do it if bessy bought me the tag.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
It Amazes Me How Many People Think It's A CAKE WALK On ALCATRAZ!

Ya!

It Could Be Easy!

Not Quite Like What JPickett Thinks It Is!

Some Of You Think It's A Smorgasbord Of 40+ Inchers Out There!

It Ain't!

I Don't Know If That's a 500,000.00+ Dollar Buck Or Not But I Guess It Is To Some!

I Doubt There's Been Any Other Bucks Taken In The State This Year That'd Break 40"?

And I'm Not Talkin GROSS Neither!
Click to expand...


It's a cake walk.

They shut the gates, island to himself. They give him the keys to the south end. There's limited fresh water, so it's not like they can disappear.

No disrespect, I loved the guy, but a paralyzed dude(yellum) saw most of not all the big bucks out there every year.

Any night after horns start, there are dudes parked in the usual spots watching bucks. Where the bucks are are zero secret.

There's not a ton of 40", but then 40" deer, except in the basin in your memories, are kinda a rare.

Awhile back I told you some island bucks cross to breed town does. Last year one was a standard frame 4, high 20's. The other was a odd, 5x7. Looks like his daddy got shot.


Look at the deep vegetation and heavy cover the pic is in. That's the majority of the cover out there that isn't just rock.

Shocking I know, cuz with the millions that island gets "to save it", you'd expect manicured Kentucky Blue grass.
 
So Hossy?

You Got A Few Pics Of This Buck From This Fall You Can Post For Us?

Not One Pic Posted Of This Buck Here On MM Before He Was Harvested?

hossblur said:
It's a cake walk.

They shut the gates, island to himself. They give him the keys to the south end. There's limited fresh water, so it's not like they can disappear.

No disrespect, I loved the guy, but a paralyzed dude(yellum) saw most of not all the big bucks out there every year.

Any night after horns start, there are dudes parked in the usual spots watching bucks. Where the bucks are are zero secret.

There's not a ton of 40", but then 40" deer, except in the basin in your memories, are kinda a rare.

Awhile back I told you some island bucks cross to breed town does. Last year one was a standard frame 4, high 20's. The other was a odd, 5x7. Looks like his daddy got shot.


Look at the deep vegetation and heavy cover the pic is in. That's the majority of the cover out there that isn't just rock.

Shocking I know, cuz with the millions that island gets "to save it", you'd expect manicured Kentucky Blue grass.
Click to expand...
 
Vanilla said:
I do think finding and killing a specific buck on the Island can probably be more difficult than most of us give it credit, but there is no need to make into something it is not.

The hunt is fine. I’d do it if bessy bought me the tag.
Click to expand...

His guide is famous for hunting elk on the Boulder. Yet he found a 42" buck. Pretty sure if you took 3-4 days you'd have it cataloged.

I'm just wonder why WLH hasn't been hunting it last few years?.
 
elkassassin said:
So Hossy?

You Got A Few Pics Of This Buck From This Fall You Can Post For Us?

Not One Pic Posted Of This Buck Here On MM Before He Was Harvested?
Click to expand...

Can you point to the page with the other dozen or so real big bucks out there?

That was Yellums job.

No. I can't. They charge too much to cross the causeway. And honestly, big deer are cool, but it's not worth it. We get out once, maybe twice if we have friends come in.
 
I Don't Know How Many People/Hunters Wouldn't Pay A TOLL Fee If They Had A Chance Just To See a 42"ER On The Hoof?



hossblur said:
Can you point to the page with the other dozen or so real big bucks out there?

That was Yellums job.

No. I can't. They charge too much to cross the causeway. And honestly, big deer are cool, but it's not worth it. We get out once, maybe twice if we have friends come in.
Click to expand...
 
Robiland said:
I am curious, with the team and all the guides and spotters, does the new law not affect this hunt? Where they can literally go nowhere to escape? And yet they have an entire "TEAM" to find this buck? There were at least 8 involved, and I am sure there were more.
Click to expand...
You seen how fat that guy is? Take at least 4 guys to drag him that 90 yards up the hill from the road for the picture
 
That is a incredible buck,But this is what hunting has become!
He with the most Money wins.How much did he pay for the tag?
Anyway congratulations on a monster mule.
 
The only reason there are two tags on AI is to raise money for the Park enchancement out there. To make sure the building and the infrastructure remains viable, and help
keep the bison, big horns and mule deer herds viable as well. I have no idea if the the money is used the way it’s sold to the auction buyers or not but that’s the story they’re told. They add a public tag to keep some sort of compassion for the public to hunt the island, as well as the auction donor.

I been told, some years the an outfitter has donated his services to the public hunter for no charge.

The crews out there are likely listed a photographers and other staff, not as multiple guides but that just a guess on my part.

Carry on though, it’s not hurting anyone to read your opinions, as well as mine. Ya’ll have a wonderful, sunny November day.

Also, a 17 mile long Island might be as large as some units in some States, is hunting one of those units a slam dunk. (Not you Slamdunk, ?)
 
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2lumpy said:
The crews out there are likely listed a photographers and other staff, not as multiple guides but that just a guess on my part.
Click to expand...

Would those other staff and photographers be "locating" or "monitoring" big game? Are the "compensated" at a value greater than $25 to do so? (That definition is likely more broad than anyone that hasn't read this would think.)

I don't know how seriously the DWR is ever going to enforce this code, but it most definitely is not as easily side-stepped as some on here and other places have made it out to be. I'll post it again, just for kicks and giggles.

Utah Code Section 23A-11-204

le.utah.gov le.utah.gov

It doesn't really matter what we call them. It matters if they are "compensated" to "locate or monitor" big game. Filling a friend's tank of gas for him would technically count. Lots of folks out there violating this one unknowingly (or knowingly).
 
2lumpy said:
The only reason there are two tags on AI is to raise money for the Park enchancement out there. To make sure the building and the infrastructure remains viable, and help
keep the bison, big horns and mule deer herds viable as well. I have no idea if the the money is used the way it’s sold to the auction buyers or not but that’s the story they’re told. They add a public tag to keep some sort of compassion for the public to hunt the island, as well as the auction donor.

I been told, some years the an outfitter has donated his services to the public hunter for no charge.

The crews out there are likely listed a photographers and other staff, not as multiple guides but that just a guess on my part.

Carry on though, it’s not hurting anyone to read your opinions, as well as mine. Ya’ll have a wonderful, sunny November day.

Also, a 17 mile long Island might be as large as some units in some States, is hunting one of those units a slam dunk. (Not you Slamdunk, ?)
Click to expand...


The hunter, nor $fw gave or gives a rats azz about the island, it's infrastructure, and honestly anything but the deer, and only a deer, not the deer.

The sheep out there are from KUIU, not $fw, nor any of the guides or hunters.

The hunt was cooked up my Don Peay as the easiest trophy hunt for sure in Utah, and of perhaps the US. It was a reward for his older, deep pocket backers, like Denny Austad. A large swath of the island is off limits to hunting, covered in road, or is beach.

The public tag was only thrown in after everyone complained, it wasn't the focus of Don, nor $fw. It is the only premium hunt in the state where a bought tag gives the buyer a weeks head start over a draw tag.

Yes. Doyle has been known to help folks out there, but, he also had perks that neither you nor I got, so perhaps that was a handshake deal this DNR?

That one deer generates more money than most le unit banquet tags, combined. The actual animal habitat, hadn't changed much. Welcoming centers, and human comforts are the result. Technically the money stays on the island, but the myth that it helps the animals, is false, ie, a private company paying to stock sheep
 
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hossblur said:
We just got a new jack in the box?. Syracuse don't have a JJ
Click to expand...
Crack in the Box left Utah once all ready since it was crap back then. I had it in St George since one of the guys driving wanted to try it. Reminded me why I didnt like it back in the 90's.
 
hossblur said:
The hunter, nor $fw gave or gives a rats azz about the island, it's infrastructure, and honestly anything but the deer, and only a deer, not the deer.

The sheep out there are from KUIU, not $fw, nor any of the guides or hunters.

The hunt was cooked up my Don Peay as the easiest trophy hunt for sure in Utah, and of perhaps the US. It was a reward for his older, deep pocket backers, like Denny Austad. A large swath of the island is off limits to hunting, covered in road, or is beach.

The public tag was only thrown in after everyone complained, it wasn't the focus of Don, nor $fw. It is the only premium hunt in the state where a bought tag gives the buyer a weeks head start over a draw tag.

Yes. Doyle has been known to help folks out there, but, he also had perks that neither you nor I got, so perhaps that was a handshake deal this DNR?

That one deer generates more money than most le unit banquet tags, combined. The actual animal habitat, hadn't changed much. Welcoming centers, and human comforts are the result. Technically the money stays on the island, but the myth that it helps the animals, is false, ie, a private company paying to stock sheep
Click to expand...
Yep!
 
Vanilla said:
Would those other staff and photographers be "locating" or "monitoring" big game? Are the "compensated" at a value greater than $25 to do so? (That definition is likely more broad than anyone that hasn't read this would think.)

I don't know how seriously the DWR is ever going to enforce this code, but it most definitely is not as easily side-stepped as some on here and other places have made it out to be. I'll post it again, just for kicks and giggles.

Utah Code Section 23A-11-204

le.utah.gov le.utah.gov

It doesn't really matter what we call them. It matters if they are "compensated" to "locate or monitor" big game. Filling a friend's tank of gas for him would technically count. Lots of folks out there violating this one unknowingly (or knowingly).
Click to expand...
So……. If the $300 a day, hired videographer, is walking along with the $250 a day, hired guide and the licensed hunter. And he sees a buck that neither the guide nor the hunter see, he can stop and get some video but if he makes any reference to the other two about said buck, here comes a LEO. Okay. I’d like to watch that play out in front of a Judge and Jury.

Same for a cook, a farrier or any one of a number of other possible support staff. How can you prove, one way or the other, the words spoken, the intended things they all see, the unspoken strategy, etc etc. How to you trace the cash tips given to the wrangler or the cook. Where they cash tipped for what they saw, what they said or what they cooked and saddled. How in the world can you expect them
police this? Has anyone been convicted of his crime yet?

I understand the intent and I understand the reason it was put in place but, right now, it seems discriminate and impossible to enforce. A DYI hunter, can and does have all kinds of people scouting and guiding him, but an outfitter is limited to one. Seems like a stick being jab in one man’s eye but not in another’s

I don’t believe anyone should break any law but come on, this is not a law that makes any sense to me, and I’m not surprised when or if the folks work around it. But then I do the simple form when I pay my taxes and others itemize, and most itemize all they can, right up to the gray, and the IRS does not like to waste time on the nit picky gray, because it’s too hard to get a conviction. Yes/No?

You ever itemize V?

Just my opinion, but I’m certainly not as wise as the majority, of course.
 
hossblur said:
The hunter, nor $fw gave or gives a rats azz about the island, it's infrastructure, and honestly anything but the deer, and only a deer, not the deer.

The sheep out there are from KUIU, not $fw, nor any of the guides or hunters.

The hunt was cooked up my Don Peay as the easiest trophy hunt for sure in Utah, and of perhaps the US. It was a reward for his older, deep pocket backers, like Denny Austad. A large swath of the island is off limits to hunting, covered in road, or is beach.

The public tag was only thrown in after everyone complained, it wasn't the focus of Don, nor $fw. It is the only premium hunt in the state where a bought tag gives the buyer a weeks head start over a draw tag.

Yes. Doyle has been known to help folks out there, but, he also had perks that neither you nor I got, so perhaps that was a handshake deal this DNR?

That one deer generates more money than most le unit banquet tags, combined. The actual animal habitat, hadn't changed much. Welcoming centers, and human comforts are the result. Technically the money stays on the island, but the myth that it helps the animals, is false, ie, a private company paying to stock sheep
Click to expand...
To my knowledge of how those deer tag funds work, that money is used for everything on the island, including collaring sheep, deer and antelope for study, annual Bison roundups, vaccines for all species, campground and general island maintenance, etc, etc.
That island costs a lot of money to operate and be fully functional, the auction tag funds are supplemental to the State allocated dollars.
 
2lumpy said:
So……. If the $300 a day, hired videographer, is walking along with the $250 a day, hired guide and the licensed hunter. And he sees a buck that neither the guide nor the hunter see, he can stop and get some video but if he makes any reference to the other two about said buck, here comes a LEO. Okay. I’d like to watch that play out in front of a Judge and Jury.

Same for a cook, a farrier or any one of a number of other possible support staff. How can you prove, one way or the other, the words spoken, the intended things they all see, the unspoken strategy, etc etc. How to you trace the cash tips given to the wrangler or the cook. Where they cash tipped for what they saw, what they said or what they cooked and saddled. How in the world can you expect them
police this? Has anyone been convicted of his crime yet?
Click to expand...

Great questions! If someone was going to try to prosecute those, they’d have to do it the same way they do every other crime. A lot of prosecutions are not with people caught red-handed with full confessions. It takes skillful investigations and prosecutions. Some win, some don’t. I have no idea if anyone has even been charged with this new crime, and I don’t know if the DWR even cares to enforce it. I just share it to inform the masses.

2lumpy said:
I understand the intent and I understand the reason it was put in place but, right now, it seems discriminate and impossible to enforce. A DYI hunter, can and does have all kinds of people scouting and guiding him, but an outfitter is limited to one. Seems like a stick being jab in one man’s eye but not in another’s
Click to expand...

Actually…it might be illegal for the DIY hunter as well. Like where my brother and a couple buddies come along with me on a hunt, help me locate and monitor big game, and as a thank you I fill their trucks up at the Maverick on the way home. That certainly is not what the law’s intent was, but it’s a technical violation. Again, not sure anyone would ever get prosecuted for it, but the more you know…

2lumpy said:
You ever itemize V?
Click to expand...

Heck if I know! I’m not smart enough to do my taxes, and my CPA tells me my taxes are the easiest taxes he’s ever done! He does my taxes and I help him locate and monitor big game. ?
 
slamdunk said:
To my knowledge of how those deer tag funds work, that money is used for everything on the island, including collaring sheep, deer and antelope for study, annual Bison roundups, vaccines for all species, campground and general island maintenance, etc, etc.
That island costs a lot of money to operate and be fully functional, the auction tag funds are supplemental to the State allocated dollars.
Click to expand...

My understanding was that it was to keep the island in the black, which is eas prior to the tags
 
andrew12gauge said:
I much prefer firehouse subs personally
Click to expand...

This true, but I don’t put them in the same class.

JJ feels much more like a fast food sandwich, while Firehouse is more gourmet. It’s like how you can’t compare a fast food burger to Rich’s Burgers in downtown SLC. (If you know, you know. If you don’t, you should.)

In its class, JJ is my favorite sandwich. But the turkey bacon ranch at Firehouse is still undefeated.
 
Robiland said:
I am curious, with the team and all the guides and spotters, does the new law not affect this hunt? Where they can literally go nowhere to escape? And yet they have an entire "TEAM" to find this buck? There were at least 8 involved, and I am sure there were more.
Click to expand...
"Friends and Family"
 
JPickett said:
I’ve always wondered why someone needs a guide to hunt a captive population of deer…
Click to expand...
Not a captive herd.
The ‘Island’ has not been an island for a very long time.
I have land SE of the island and any animals from AI can cross over at any time.
Even Buffalo cross over to me from time to time.
This is one of four I drove right up to in order to take this pic.
Lots of Antelope have crossed over also.
That is Antelope Island in the background.

IMG_0060.png
 
JJ's trophy room is busting at the seams... (offering up the lob for someone else to smash down...)
Seriously I bet it is amazing! I ll take a free whiff of that
 
slamdunk said:
Isn't that just crazy?
How would he not know?
Does he have 6 months worth of unopened mail sitting on the kitchen counter?🤦‍♂️
Click to expand...
And, How does he find out that he has that tag while the hunt is still going?
I hope the story comes out.

I'm wondering if the guides for JJ got to thinking it strange that the public hunter wasn't anywhere around and did some digging. Maybe they let him know. Looks like they were the ones who guided him.
 
elkantlers said:
And, How does he find out that he has that tag while the hunt is still going?
I hope the story comes out.

I'm wondering if the guides for JJ got to thinking it strange that the public hunter wasn't anywhere around and did some digging. Maybe they let him know. Looks like they were the ones who guided him.
Click to expand...
I'll find out the scoop, I know Ryan Carter well.
 

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