2023 harvest survey

Glad I didn't burn my points on one of those late archery tags. I was eyeballing them pretty closely.

Those success rates are not very appealing to me.
 
So… in one discussion we can’t get success rates low enough and want more restrictions to help achieve that. In another discussion, success was too low so we should give the hunters their points back and let them try again.

Maybe if lefty throws another temper tantrum and threatens to resign if they reinstate points, they will listen like they did with the trail cams?

Utah is a fuggin joke. And the clowns on the RAC and WB are leading this circus.
 
Do all the late archery elk hunters on units that had 0% success (and there are a bunch of them) get their points back also?

Giving points back (except under only the most extreme circumstances) is a terrible precedent to set for low success hunts. Drawing a tag only guarantees you an opportunity to hunt, it does not guarantee you success in harvesting something.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Do all the late archery elk hunters on units that had 0% success (and there are a bunch of them) get their points back also?

Giving points back (except under only the most extreme circumstances) is a terrible precedent to set for low success hunts. Drawing a tag only guarantees you an opportunity to hunt, it does not guarantee you success in harvesting something.
Click to expand...
They already set it in 2017 I believe with the unsuccessful wild horse bench hunters
 
I'm thinking we need to bring the "everyone gets a trophy " theory into our draw system for sure. It's way overdue.

We could maybe add another check box to the application that costs like an additional $200 and it gives you a chance to do over (and over) if you are unsuccessful. Sorta like a cash cow for the DWR and an insurance policy for the applicant. Every time you turn a tag in, the box costs more to check next year. Non refundable of course.... Then after we get everything up and running smoothly, we can just revamp the program in like 20 years. Change all the rules and just say "sorry it's not working anymore ".

It could possibly be the one thing to make the majority of the MM crowd happy. They don't actually want hunters shooting things with their tags anyhow. Can you imagine how many "dinks, piss cutters and wrong colored cow elk" this could save? We could even do a "reverse trophy fee" and we'll call it a "dink fee." If your Critter doesn't meet the Instagram and or MM expectations, you get fined and it's due before you can ever apply again. Sure it would impact point creep, but small price to pay I'm thinking. Heck the extra revenue alone could hire more people to actually enforce all these new rules we're making up non stop.
 
Betterluckythangood said:
Could someone please enlighten us on the extreme circumstances on this hunt that called for points to be returned? Assuming that happened
Click to expand...
They drew a tag, went and looked.... didn't see any Buffalo in the unit. Complained to the DWR because it took all their points and Walla. I think that's it. It was discussed in one of these meetings I believe. This is not the first time this has happened.
 
Utahlefty said:
the two things that jump out for me:

-that late archery elk hunt was just as difficult as predicted

-Book Cliffs Bison still has a lot of problems. 0/14 muzzy, oof!
Click to expand...
The late season archery bull buffalo hunt on Henry's also had zero success. 0/5 averaging 7 hunt days.

I really hope they don't give points back. It is called hunting, not killing.
 
The harvest on the Henry Mountain Archery Bison hunt was 0% yet the Hunter Satisfaction Rating was 5 - that is awesome that they had a great hunt yet did not harvest. I suspect that means they were into bison just could not connect. The BCLC hunt likely they never even saw bison.

BI6509 Henry Mtns OIAL Archery 5 3 0 7.0 0.0 5.0
 
Yes, I do think the hunter satisfaction index between the Henry and the BC tells the tale.

I had a great antelope hunt on a CWMU one year and so went back the next. Year two there were no antelope on the property, probably due to drought, and no one really got to "hunt", not even the operators.
I didn't ask for any dispensation, figuring you pay your money and you take your chances in a situation like that.

I do have more sympathy for the BC bison hunters though due to the fact that they were actively sabotaged by other individuals acting unlawfully (the tribes hazing the bison and preventing them from returning to the unit).

Did they or should they get their points back? I don't know.

This will happen again though and I don't know that the state can prevent it. In the least I think it should be made clear prior to applying that there's a good chance there will be no bison on the unit during a given hunt and thus a zero percent change of success.
 
Utahlefty said:
Yes, I do think the hunter satisfaction index between the Henry and the BC tells the tale.

I had a great antelope hunt on a CWMU one year and so went back the next. Year two there were no antelope on the property, probably due to drought, and no one really got to "hunt", not even the operators.
I didn't ask for any dispensation, figuring you pay your money and you take your chances in a situation like that.

I do have more sympathy for the BC bison hunters though due to the fact that they were actively sabotaged by other individuals acting unlawfully (the tribes hazing the bison and preventing them from returning to the unit).

Did they or should they get their points back? I don't know.

This will happen again though and I don't know that the state can prevent it. In the least I think it should be made clear prior to applying that there's a good chance there will be no bison on the unit during a given hunt and thus a zero percent change of success.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I had a very similar experience on a antelope CWMU. The operator was super nice but the fact that there were no antelope on the property was beyond their control. I was informed I needed to contact the DWR to see if there was any options in this scenario.

I accepted the fact that there are no guarantees when applying, but it was very out of the ordinary to have no antelope on the property so I called. I was asked a few questions. First one: Has the operator not given you an opportunity to hunt the property? Second question: Have you hunted any days yet. Answers were no and no. I was told there were still days left in the season so go hunt. I was informed the permit does not guarantee animals on the unit or success. I agreed to this decision, but I was surprised when the next year they did the exact opposite on a Buffalo hunt under similar conditions.
 
Curious...

Did the tribal harassment only occur during this 2 week hunt (9/25 thru 10/6)? Does the DWR have solid proof of the harassment? The reason I ask is because all 5 of the other buffalo hunts for this same unit after Oct 7th were 80% successful.

Why would the Indian rez only harass the Bison for a relativly short 1-2 week period and not for all the hunts?

Seems maybe a convenient excuse to get points back. It would be a much harder sell to return points if the reason for no Bison was the due to the unusually wet weather providing ample feed in places where feed is normally scarce.
 
Their numbers are in correct. As for the heneries bison archery hunt at 0% success. My buddy had one of those tags and he harvested so that’s 1 of the 5 that harvested
 
pushin_30 said:
Their numbers are in correct. As for the heneries bison archery hunt at 0% success. My buddy had one of those tags and he harvested so that’s 1 of the 5 that harvested
Click to expand...
Math is hard 3/5=50% and 1/3 is the same as 2/7. Checks out.

1708061947207.png
 
Hey Lefty?

You Got Any Proof Of The Tribe Pushing Buffalo?

Utahlefty said:
Yes, I do think the hunter satisfaction index between the Henry and the BC tells the tale.

I had a great antelope hunt on a CWMU one year and so went back the next. Year two there were no antelope on the property, probably due to drought, and no one really got to "hunt", not even the operators.
I didn't ask for any dispensation, figuring you pay your money and you take your chances in a situation like that.

I do have more sympathy for the BC bison hunters though due to the fact that they were actively sabotaged by other individuals acting unlawfully (the tribes hazing the bison and preventing them from returning to the unit).

Did they or should they get their points back? I don't know.

This will happen again though and I don't know that the state can prevent it. In the least I think it should be made clear prior to applying that there's a good chance there will be no bison on the unit during a given hunt and thus a zero percent change of success.
Click to expand...
 
Hey pushin!

Maybe He Didn't Want Anybody To Know?:D

Also!

Looks Like 2 Of The Hunters Didn't Even Hunt?

Who Draws An OIAL Permit & Doesn't Even Go?

I Know!

Things Can Happen!

But DAMN!
pushin_30 said:
Their numbers are in correct. As for the heneries bison archery hunt at 0% success. My buddy had one of those tags and he harvested so that’s 1 of the 5 that harvested
Click to expand...
 
There was proof of the tribe hazing the bison several years ago the first time they gave Books bison hunters their points back.

I’m not sure that was the case last year.

Anyway, Books bison seems to be the best twice in a lifetime species hunt to go after! Heck, you might even get thrice if you’re loud enough.
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Lefty?

You Got Any Proof Of The Tribe Pushing Buffalo?
Click to expand...

Did I ride out there and look personally ? No
Do I know a half dozen guides who did? Yes
Did I talk to the mammals coordinator personally about it? Yes

Do I have any skin in this game? No.

I drew BC bison 4-5 years ago and donated the tag to my son, who killed a toad - one of the original transplant bulls.

I've kept a side-eye on it since and it's really not what it once was for sure.
 
Utahlefty said:
I've kept a side-eye on it since and it's really not what it once was for sure.
Click to expand...

Even that comment is somewhat deceptive to the reality. To be clear, I don’t think you are intentionally being deceptive here and not calling you out for that.

There was a long time that BC didn’t even have a bison hunt or huntable population on public land. So when you say what it once was, I think we have to be careful. What it is today, whatever that is, is infinitely better than no hunting at all.

But I get your point that the hunting is not at its peak.
 
on that idea, does that mean all the OTC bison hunters that were unsuccessful will be eligible to get their OIL wait period removed since the Indians built a wall across the drainage the bison historically used to migrate into their hunt area?
 
Vanilla said:
Even that comment is somewhat deceptive to the reality. To be clear, I don’t think you are intentionally being deceptive here and not calling you out for that.

There was a long time that BC didn’t even have a bison hunt or huntable population on public land. So when you say what it once was, I think we have to be careful. What it is today, whatever that is, is infinitely better than no hunting at all.

But I get your point that the hunting is not at its peak.And How Long Did It Take You To Accept This? Did You Really Type This Niller?
Click to expand...
 
Vanilla said:
Even that comment is somewhat deceptive to the reality. To be clear, I don’t think you are intentionally being deceptive here and not calling you out for that.

There was a long time that BC didn’t even have a bison hunt or huntable population on public land. So when you say what it once was, I think we have to be careful. What it is today, whatever that is, is infinitely better than no hunting at all.

But I get your point that the hunting is not at its peak.
Click to expand...
I think, and could be wrong, but it was 2007ish when they turned a bunch loose out there.

I hunted it in 2018 when my dad drew a tag. I was honestly surprised at how many bison we saw. Having never been on the unit before, we went out 2 days early and planned to stay the entire hunt if needed. That year, you could have showed up opening morning with no idea where to go and could have killed one. They were literally everywhere we looked.

I don’t know what happened on the muzzy hunt but obviously something happened which impacted the hunt lf zero were killed but all the other hunts had decent-good success.

Either way giving points back should not even be a topic of discussion. Every year when we apply we roll the dice on countless variables that are out of our control. It’s all part of it. Remember in 2018 the forest circus burned the Nebo unit to the ground, closing all access to the part of the unit where most of the elk are located, during all the big bull seasons? None of those hunters got their points back. It hosed a lot of guys.

It is what it is. I wish Utahs latest favorite motto of “put the hunt back in hunting” applied to all topics regarding Utah hunting. And not just when it comes to magnified scopes on muzzleloaders and trail cams.
 
Hey Bux!

You Guys hunted It At A Good Time!

But!

There Never Was Bison Everywhere In The Book Cliffs!

In The General Area You Were In There Were Quite A Few Bison!

It's Not Like That Now!

And Most Of The BUTT KICKINS Happened In The Roadless,Not Where You Were Hunting!




Bux n Dux said:
I think, and could be wrong, but it was 2007ish when they turned a bunch loose out there.

I hunted it in 2018 when my dad drew a tag. I was honestly surprised at how many bison we saw. Having never been on the unit before, we went out 2 days early and planned to stay the entire hunt if needed. That year, you could have showed up opening morning with no idea where to go and could have killed one. They were literally everywhere we looked.

I don’t know what happened on the muzzy hunt but obviously something happened which impacted the hunt lf zero were killed but all the other hunts had decent-good success.

Either way giving points back should not even be a topic of discussion. Every year when we apply we roll the dice on countless variables that are out of our control. It’s all part of it. Remember in 2018 the forest circus burned the Nebo unit to the ground, closing all access to the part of the unit where most of the elk are located, during all the big bull seasons? None of those hunters got their points back. It hosed a lot of guys.

It is what it is. I wish Utahs latest favorite motto of “put the hunt back in hunting” applied to all topics regarding Utah hunting. And not just when it comes to magnified scopes on muzzleloaders and trail cams.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Bux!

You Guys hunted It At A Good Time!

But!

There Never Was Bison Everywhere In The Book Cliffs!

In The General Area You Were In There Were Quite A Few Bison!

It's Not Like That Now!

And Most Of The BUTT KICKINS Happened In The Roadless,Not Where You Were Hunting!
Click to expand...
I saw bison from the paved road all the way west out to moon ridge, which is as far as we went. Literally every ridge that dropped off the north side had bison on it. They were walking down the divide road. I had to stop several times for them to move out of the way.
IMG_3794.jpeg

Roadless, again, is what it is. Everyone should be aware of that when they apply for any tag out there
 
Not Arguing On What You Seen!

But That's A Small Piece Of The Book Cliffs!

You Were Where You Needed To Be!

Bux n Dux said:
I saw bison from the paved road all the way west out to moon ridge, which is as far as we went. Literally every ridge that dropped off the north side had bison on it. They were walking down the divide road. I had to stop several times for them to move out of the way.
View attachment 137341
Roadless, again, is what it is. Everyone should be aware of that when they apply for any tag out there
Click to expand...
 
pushin_30 said:
Their numbers are in correct. As for the heneries bison archery hunt at 0% success. My buddy had one of those tags and he harvested so that’s 1 of the 5 that harvested
Click to expand...
My guess is that not all hunters had reported their harvest in time for the publishing date of the harvest data report. The hunt ended on Jan 31st and hunters have 30 days to report their harvest.
 
I was a little surprised to see that most of the OIL hunts/species have gone from 2 days 100% with a 4.9/5 rating to not so much 100%, multiple days and more of a 4.5 or less rating.



Glad they have turned more into a Hunt than a shoot.



Robb
 
Vanilla said:
There was proof of the tribe hazing the bison several years ago the first time they gave Books bison hunters their points back.
Click to expand...
Do You Actually Have That Proof You Could Show Us Niller?

And The Next Question:

What You Gonna Do About It?

I Do Expect An Answer!

Gonna Clue you In On Something!

The Tribe Had Bison Out There Before The DWR Had Any!

The Tribes Buffalo Venture Around & Some Of Them Get Shot On Public Ground!

If & When You Start Dipping In To Tribal Bison & Their Bison Numbers Get Less Than What They Wanna See,Somethings Gonna Happen!

And Let Me Clue You In On That!

It Won't Be The DWR Issuing More Bison Tags!

Yes,The Bison Can Cross Either Way!

But I Can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE You Who's Got More Pull Out There!

Vanilla said:
I’m not sure that was the case last year.

Anyway, Books bison seems to be the best twice in a lifetime species hunt to go after! Heck, you might even get thrice if you’re loud enough.
Click to expand...
 
The hazing of bison back to the reservation via helicopter was well documented at the time. Discussed by the proper authorities all in public meetings. If YOU want proof, then don’t be a lazy a$$ and go find it yourself. You’re the one asking for it, so do something about it.

What am I going to do about it? Nothing. And I don’t think anyone should be getting their points back then or now.

I’m well aware of the history of bison out there. It’s why I mentioned what I did above, genius. Not sure why you’re all hot and bothered. You asked a question and got an answer. Put your big boy pants on and quit being a baby.
 
Betterluckythangood said:
Did the Bison hunters get their points back or is it under consideration? Sorry for my ignorance but very interested in the discussion.
Click to expand...

My understanding is they gave them their points back. Twice in a lifetime…it’s the new once in a lifetime!

But then we’ll hear the same folks talk about needing to address point creep.

Simply the most dishonest discussions taking place in wildlife management today!
 
Me All Hot?

Well PHHUUCCK!

You Ain't Seen Me Hot!

And Further More You Wouldn't Want To!

Yes Niller, I Remember It!

What I Was Asking If You Have Footage Of The Chopper Doing It You Could Post For Us?

I Like Your NOTHING Answer!

Just Like Everybody-else,NOTHING!



Vanilla said:
The hazing of bison back to the reservation via helicopter was well documented at the time. Discussed by the proper authorities all in public meetings. If YOU want proof, then don’t be a lazy a$$ and go find it yourself. You’re the one asking for it, so do something about it.

What am I going to do about it? Nothing. And I don’t think anyone should be getting their points back then or now.

I’m well aware of the history of bison out there. It’s why I mentioned what I did above, genius. Not sure why you’re all hot and bothered. You asked a question and got an answer. Put your big boy pants on and quit being a baby.
Click to expand...
 
So When I Finally Draw A BISON BULL Tag & FOUL It Up I Can Get Another OIAL Tag The Next Year?

Doesn't Sound Too F'N Bad!

Now Just WTF Kinda Chance Do You Think I'd Have Of Getting A OIAL Tag Re-Issued?



Vanilla said:
My understanding is they gave them their points back. Twice in a lifetime…it’s the new once in a lifetime!

But then we’ll hear the same folks talk about needing to address point creep.

Simply the most dishonest discussions taking place in wildlife management today!
Click to expand...
 
Thanks always helpful to see how all the LE and OIL hunts went and the satisfaction of the hunts especially CWMU.
 
Well, the late Archery elk hunts are probably considered a success... 85 people out of the Elk Draw, and it only cost them 14 bulls. 16% harvest rate.

I can't imagine it will take too many points to draw these tags next year.
 

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