2024 Draw is Open

[Blank]

Got an email tonight, and the deer and sheep apps are open now

 

[Wiszard]

Southern Utah here I come!! LOL

 

[Servehim]

Hopefully the deer points creep isn't as bad as elk was, put in for an elk tag that was 100% last year but wasn't enough this year.

 

[Moe]

Deer creep will be bad. It seems Coues are now all the rage. Great.

 

[AZ4life]

Coues are the rage because all the big muley hunts are that much harder to get tags for, and much harder to find in general units than years gone by. The creep is bad and won't be getting better.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Deer creep will be bad. It seems Coues are now all the rage. Great.

As if last years hung point leap was not bad enough.

 

[Largebull]

Last chance , Tuesday at % PM . I am in with 31 res . points for Sheep. Its gonna happen cause I have a 3 week trip for elk planned for Wyoming. .................BULL!

 

[ElmerFudd]

I had to apply for 13B this year with max points, as a nonresident... Sort of hoping I don't draw this year for more time on the Henry Mountains, but I'll take it if I draw it. I'm close enough to retirement that I'll blow off work if I must Same goes for sheep

 

[Duckhunterbrad]

I made my donation. I'm in no man's lands with 10 or more points for all species...

 

[Bow&Arrow]

My son and I put in for 3A/3C archery deer tags. We have 19 points. Hopefully we will draw.

 

[money]

My son and I put in for 3A/3C archery deer tags. We have 19 points. Hopefully we will draw.

Resident or nonresident? and 19 points total?

 

[Bow&Arrow]

My apologies. I'm new on here. We are nonresidents with 19 points each.

 

[money]

My apologies. I'm new on here. We are nonresidents with 19 points each.

With 19 points each you should probably draw that tag. Was that your only choice on the application? If so, I would bet you draw it.

 

[CouesFanatic]

ouch, how many points does that hunt take now?

 

[Bow&Arrow]

We actually put in for 13B as our first choice, but barring some miracle, we have no chance of drawing that one. 3A/3C is our second choice. It is my understanding that both the first and second choices count, but if I got that wrong, I'd like to find that out.

 

[Bow&Arrow]

ouch, how many points does that hunt take now?

I don't know. It looks like the number of points needed in the nonresident max point draw keeps going up every year.

 

[Bwht4x4]

We actually put in for 13B as our first choice, but barring some miracle, we have no chance of drawing that one. 3A/3C is our second choice. It is my understanding that both the first and second choices count, but if I got that wrong, I'd like to find that out.

Yeah, you got that wrong. Your 13b choice won't even be looked at since you're in the max pt draw for 3a/3c achery, which only took 11 pts for a NR to draw last year. Hope you have point guard.

 

[yotebuster17]

My son and I put in for 3A/3C archery deer tags. We have 19 points. Hopefully we will draw.

 

[money]

Yeah, you got that wrong. Your 13b choice won't even be looked at since you're in the max pt draw for 3a/3c achery, which only took 11 pts for a NR to draw last year. Hope you have point guard.

bwht4x4 is correct. You should be in the max pool with 19 points each which means you should get your second choice without your first choice even being considered.

 

[Bow&Arrow]

Thanks guys. We'll be totally happy with 3A/3C tags if we draw them.

 

[Bwht4x4]

Thanks guys. We'll be totally happy with 3A/3C tags if we draw them.

Being that you're 7 points above what is needed to draw this year, I'd start planning for you hunt and shooting your bows! Have a good hunt!

 

[longranger]

Being that you're 7 points above what is needed to draw this year, I'd start planning for you hunt and shooting your bows! Have a good hunt!

It will go up some since they dropped tag numbers but definitely not that high. Good news is, you'll basically have 3c to yourself for a few weeks chasing bucks. You'll have a good time.

 

[DanMan]

Can't wait to hear how your hunt goes

 

[Bow&Arrow]

If we don't draw 3A/3C archery deer tags this year, and if the tag quota remains the same, it will take 20 or more nonresident points to draw 3A/3C archery deer tags next year in the max points drawing. If we do draw, according to one of the guys who personal messaged me and who is waiting in mine behind us, it is going to take a least 17 or more nonresident points next year.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Wonder how many points archery Kiabab takes this year.

 

[mdbrown]

I noticed it took 20 points last year for
Nr 12-a west side early hunt.
In the 20% draw. That seems like a lot to me for the early hunt. All though, I don’t know much about that hunt

 

[oilcan]

I noticed it took 20 points last year for
Nr 12-a west side early hunt.
In the 20% draw. That seems like a lot to me for the early hunt. All though, I don’t know much about that hunt

Here’s my opinion on it.
With 20 points you will never catch up and draw a bonus late tag or strip tag and the Random odds are less then 1%. I think a lot of guys are realizing this and using there points.
All the bonus tags for the late hunts have been going to Max point holders, which sucks because I am 1 under max NR.
This year there’s still 74 with max (27)
88 with 26
There are 1241 people with between 20 and 25 points.
With the current late tag numbers most guys with max or a couple under looking to Hunt late or the strip will die, be to old to hunt or just settle for a different hunt.
From what I understand the early hunt can be tuff but I know there are some guides who always seem to kill some big ones.

 

[WapitiBob]

There is no scenario where the computer will look at your 2nd choice without first looking at your 1st choice. It's called 1st choice and 2nd choice for a reason.

The computer tries to fill the 1st choice and if not, it goes to the 2nd choice. Pretty simple. If you want to have a chance to fill the 1st choice in the random side, don't put a sure thing as 2nd choice because it'll be drawn in the Bonus Pass and you'll be out before going to the random side.

 

[Bow&Arrow]

I'm going to show my age with this post.

Back before there was such a thing as the internet, I networked with other hunters to find the best units. That involved going to hunter conventions, talking with people, and making new friends. Nowadays, guys just buy a magazine that lays it all out for them. I think something of the hunting camaraderie has been lost.

Back when one of the states (I'm going to be vague to protect my friend) formed a committee to define a preference point program, one of those friends of mine was on it. He called me to tell me that it was being designed so that the state's game management agency could generate extra funding to support programs for salamanders, prairie dogs, bird watching, etc. He said that the direction the committee was heading would end up favoring those of us our age and steal the opportunity to draw from future generations, and in the end would be unsustainable. (Kind of like our national debt situation.) He voted against it, but we ended up with what we have now. In the early days, it resulted in predictability. I think now with the amount of money flowing in that will keep it going for at least the rest of my lifetime, but can't last forever. I think it's all a Ponzi scheme.

 

[huntazido]

I noticed it took 20 points last year for
Nr 12-a west side early hunt.
In the 20% draw. That seems like a lot to me for the early hunt. All though, I don’t know much about that hunt

12A West early is a good hunt and enjoyable IMO but not worth waiting and investing for 20 years. If this is the new norm for NR's, I would suggest shopping around and finding landowner tags in other states. The NR's with tons of points that realize they are running out of time or realize they will never draw that 13B or 13A tag are lowering their standards. This is why you see the huge point creep jump. When a guy with 20 points jumps in and applies for hunt that could have been had with 13 that really messes with the odds. There are a lot of NR's that have a lot points and they could really altar things if they continue to use their points on much easier to draw hunts. It only takes and handful of guys to do this and the NR tag quota will be met. Good luck to everyone that applied this year.

 

[AZGuy]

12A West early is a good hunt and enjoyable IMO but not worth waiting and investing for 20 years. If this is the new norm for NR's, I would suggest shopping around and finding landowner tags in other states. The NR's with tons of points that realize they are running out of time or realize they will never draw that 13B or 13A tag are lowering their standards. This is why you see the huge point creep jump. When a guy with 20 points jumps in and applies for hunt that could have been had with 13 that really messes with the odds. There are a lot of NR's that have a lot points and they could really altar things if they continue to use their points on much easier to draw hunts. It only takes and handful of guys to do this and the NR tag quota will be met. Good luck to everyone that applied this year.

This is the new norm unfortunately.

 

[WapitiBob]

Points are cheap when you spread the license fee over 1-1/2 years and multiple species. They should have made points expensive enough that people wouldn't accumulate them over decades. People don't even blink at spending $150 for a WY Sheep or Moose point that will never be used in their lifetime.

 

[longranger]

There is no scenario where the computer will look at your 2nd choice without first looking at your 1st choice. It's called 1st choice and 2nd choice for a reason.

The computer tries to fill the 1st choice and if not, it goes to the 2nd choice. Pretty simple. If you want to have a chance to fill the 1st choice in the random side, don't put a sure thing as 2nd choice because it'll be drawn in the Bonus Pass and you'll be out before going to the random side.

So you just explained how there IS a scenario where the computer won't look at your 1st choice. Just like we said. If you have enough points to draw your 2nd choice in the bonus pass then the computer never looks at your first choice because you never get to the random pass.

 

[longranger]

Points are cheap when you spread the license fee over 1-1/2 years and multiple species. They should have made points expensive enough that people wouldn't accumulate them over decades. People don't even blink at spending $150 for a WY Sheep or Moose point that will never be used in their lifetime.

Yes, they should have definitely made hunting even more of a rich man's game.

 

[WapitiBob]

So you just explained how there IS a scenario where the computer won't look at your 1st choice. Just like we said. If you have enough points to draw your 2nd choice in the bonus pass then the computer never looks at your first choice because you never get to the random pass.

If you never get to the random pass they don't look at either choice.
The comment made was the computer will skip the 1st choice and go straight to the 2nd if you have the points to draw that 2nd choice. Anybody with a rudimentary understanding of the draw knows that's nonsense.

 

[longranger]

If you never get to the random pass they don't look at either choice.

Bob, you can't be that dense. How TF is the computer going to give someone a tag without having looked at their choices? The computer just pulls choices out of its as$ and gives you a random tag you didn't apply for?

 

[WapitiBob]

Bob, you can't be that dense. How TF is the computer going to give someone a tag without having looked at their choices? The computer just pulls choices out of its as$ and gives you a random tag you didn't apply for?

I'll refresh your memory..

"Your 13b choice won't even be looked at since you're in the max pt draw for 3a/3c archery, which only took 11 pts for a NR to draw last year."

And, If you draw in the Bonus Pass, they won't look at either choice in the random because you are no longer in the draw.

 

[longranger]

I'll refresh your memory..

"Your 13b choice won't even be looked at since you're in the max pt draw for 3a/3c archery, which only took 11 pts for a NR to draw last year."

And, If you draw in the Bonus Pass, they won't look at either choice in the random because you are no longer in the draw.

Bob! They won't look at your 1st choice but they dam* sure will look at his 2nd choice! Because they will give him a 3c archery tag! We aren't talking about the random pass only. We're talking about the draw in general. He will get 3c archery in the bonus pass AFTER thr computer looks and see his 2nd choice meets the bonus pass criteria. Where did you pull that anyone is talking about the random pass only? When the bonus pass comes before the random pass?

 

[WapitiBob]

He will draw his 2nd choice in the Bonus Pass, AFTER the computer tries to fill his 1st choice and fails. The computer never looks at the 2nd choice before the 1st.

 

[longranger]

He will draw his 2nd choice in the Bonus Pass, AFTER the computer tries to fill his 1st choice and fails. The computer never looks at the 2nd choice before the 1st.

Lol, Bob you are an interesting individual. You'd rather play stupid than admit you're wrong. The end result of the above scenario is bow&arrow has zero chance at being able to draw first choice.

 

[WapitiBob]

You should read up on the draw process, they explain it pretty well, including a section where they will look at the op's 1st choice, and if not drawn, then look at his 2nd, in that order. Nowhere will you find a section where the computer looks at his 2nd choice without first trying to fill his 1st choice. In fact, you can't find any documentation from AZG&F to support your claim that the computer will look at his 2nd choice before trying to fill his 1st.

Draw Process - Arizona Game & Fish Department

Learn about the Arizona big game draw process.

www.azgfd.com

 

[AZ4life]

Last chance , Tuesday at % PM . I am in with 31 res . points for Sheep. Its gonna happen cause I have a 3 week trip for elk planned for Wyoming. .................BULL!

Man, I'm so jealous. Wish my pops had started putting me in for sheep as a kid, I would have 31 as well if he had haha. In reality, I'll probably never draw now being so far behind max for my age.

 

[WapitiBob]

Last chance , Tuesday at % PM . I am in with 31 res . points for Sheep. Its gonna happen cause I have a 3 week trip for elk planned for Wyoming. .................BULL!

Long wait, have a fun hunt if you draw.

 

[Crampy]

.... Nowhere will you find a section where the computer looks at his 2nd choice without first trying to fill his 1st choice. ..

Well, sort of. Within each pass your statement is technically true. But there is an important nuance that makes your statement very misleading.

The end result of the above scenario is bow&arrow has zero chance at being able to draw first choice.

You are correct. There absolutely IS a nuance in the AZ draw process that causes a second choice to be filled (in the preference pass) and completely ignores looking at that person's first choice in the larger weighted-random pass.

First Pass (20% of tags given to max point holders via preference, but AZGFD incorrectly calls this a "bonus" pass). 1st choice not drawn. 2nd choice (lower demand) is drawn with 100% odds.

Second Pass (80% of tag awarded by weighted random,, this is "bonus"). The applicants first choice is NEVER considered to be given one of these important weighted random tags! Thus, the applicant was given his second choice (due to preference) without his first choice ever being considered in the weighted random portion of the draw.

 

[huntazido]

Man, I'm so jealous. Wish my pops had started putting me in for sheep as a kid, I would have 31 as well if he had haha. In reality, I'll probably never draw now being so far behind max for my age.

There was a time when you could buy points for kids under 10 years old. I know because I started buying points for my boys. They are 28 and 26 and they have 20 points each after this draw. I think I was only able to take advantage of this for 2-3 years and then they stopped it. I still think their only chance of drawing is by out living everyone who has more points than them.