Hey everyone, im planning on buying a lever action cowboy style rifle for this springs bear season and future elk seasons. i have it narrowed down to these three calibers. Im planning on going with a marlin rifle. the specs on these three calibers are very similar and i was wondering if anyone of you guys have one that in your opinion is better than the other two. Thanks in advance.
.444 Marlin vs .450 Marlin vs .45-70
- Thread starter Randy11
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RELH
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The 444 and 450 marlin is harder to find ammo for in most places, and when you do find it, expect to pay more per box. The 444 is a smaller dia. bullet, but has less bullet drop and is a little higher in velocity.
The 450 and 45/70 are about the same in velocity & power when loaded to their full potential, but the 450 is loaded hotter in factory ammo then the standard 45/70. this is due to the 45/70 being used in old trapdoor guns that may come apart if shot with high velocity loads. You can get ammo from smaller companies that will load the 45/70 hotter for use in the Marlin and Browning single shot rifle.
The factory 45/70 is usually loaded with a 300 grain HP at about 1800 FPS and is a very good deer load. If you want factory 45/70 loads to take on big game such as bear-elk, you will need to buy Hammerheads or other hot loads, or reload.
As for myself, I would go with the 45/70 Malin as I feel it is more versatile, ammo is easy to find and reasonable in price and it will knock down anything you will find on this continent.
I handload my 45/70 ammo for use in a 1874 Sharps and a Mauser bolt action that had been converted to 45/70.
RELH
The 450 and 45/70 are about the same in velocity & power when loaded to their full potential, but the 450 is loaded hotter in factory ammo then the standard 45/70. this is due to the 45/70 being used in old trapdoor guns that may come apart if shot with high velocity loads. You can get ammo from smaller companies that will load the 45/70 hotter for use in the Marlin and Browning single shot rifle.
The factory 45/70 is usually loaded with a 300 grain HP at about 1800 FPS and is a very good deer load. If you want factory 45/70 loads to take on big game such as bear-elk, you will need to buy Hammerheads or other hot loads, or reload.
As for myself, I would go with the 45/70 Malin as I feel it is more versatile, ammo is easy to find and reasonable in price and it will knock down anything you will find on this continent.
I handload my 45/70 ammo for use in a 1874 Sharps and a Mauser bolt action that had been converted to 45/70.
RELH
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-05 AT 10:39PM (MST)[p]Thanks RELH, ive been cruising the net looking at ammo and am starting to see what you mean by more factory loads for the .45-70. Also, being as you shoot one, how is the recoil? im not a very big guy at all but can handle recoil fairly well. I shoot a 7mm mag right now that doesnt bother me at all. And also, have you tried shooting the 405 grainers out of it at all? seems like thats a pretty big hunk of lead for the amount of powder behind it. Thanks again.
RELH
Long Time Member
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Randy11;
Here is where we get to the fun part'RECOIL. The standard factory load of a 300 grain bullet at about 1800 fps is very mild to shoot in the Marlin. If you handle a 7mm mag, you can increase the 300 grain bullet to 1900-2000 fps and should have no problem. At that velocity that load is a good deer load out to 200-250 yards if you sight in 2 inches high at 100 yards. Not to much drop.
Now for the butt kickers, that will be the 405 grain and larger. If you load the 405 grain to 1800 fps or more, you are going to notice the recoil with a light weight Marlin, it will kick like a mule. I loaded some Rem. 405 grainers with 55 grains of H4895 powder for about 1900 fps in my Sharps. That load was a kicker in the Sharps which weights in at 11 pounds, the steel butt plate did not help either. This load will rattle your teeth in the Marlin, I would reccommend replacing the Marlin pad with a Pachmayr Decelerator pad or a Sims Laboratory "LIMBSAVER" recoil pad to reduce the recoil.
Another thing you can do is switch to a Hornady 350 grain interlock flatpoint bullet and use the same powder charge from the 405 grain load. This 55 grains of less bullet weight makes a big difference in the recoil. The Hornady bullet will do very fine on elk-bear-moose. I killed a 1600 pound buffalo with a single shot using that bullet and load of 55 grains H4895. My two hunting partners also used a single shot to kill two other buffalos with that load.
Another route is to use hard cast lead bullets, you can get them from 300, 350, 405, 500 grains. I would stay with the 300-350 grain and load them up to 1800-1900 fps and they will take anything from deer to large bears or elk.
You can find mild to butt kicking loads for the 45/70, just try different loads to find the one you like and can handle. Just remember that the 300 gr. hollow points are for deer size animals only, they expand to much and will not give enought pentration for anything larger, my son found this out on a wild feral pig that got away from him due to poor pentration. He now uses 350 gr. Hornadys or 300 gr. hard cast lead for his pig loads.
RELH
Here is where we get to the fun part'RECOIL. The standard factory load of a 300 grain bullet at about 1800 fps is very mild to shoot in the Marlin. If you handle a 7mm mag, you can increase the 300 grain bullet to 1900-2000 fps and should have no problem. At that velocity that load is a good deer load out to 200-250 yards if you sight in 2 inches high at 100 yards. Not to much drop.
Now for the butt kickers, that will be the 405 grain and larger. If you load the 405 grain to 1800 fps or more, you are going to notice the recoil with a light weight Marlin, it will kick like a mule. I loaded some Rem. 405 grainers with 55 grains of H4895 powder for about 1900 fps in my Sharps. That load was a kicker in the Sharps which weights in at 11 pounds, the steel butt plate did not help either. This load will rattle your teeth in the Marlin, I would reccommend replacing the Marlin pad with a Pachmayr Decelerator pad or a Sims Laboratory "LIMBSAVER" recoil pad to reduce the recoil.
Another thing you can do is switch to a Hornady 350 grain interlock flatpoint bullet and use the same powder charge from the 405 grain load. This 55 grains of less bullet weight makes a big difference in the recoil. The Hornady bullet will do very fine on elk-bear-moose. I killed a 1600 pound buffalo with a single shot using that bullet and load of 55 grains H4895. My two hunting partners also used a single shot to kill two other buffalos with that load.
Another route is to use hard cast lead bullets, you can get them from 300, 350, 405, 500 grains. I would stay with the 300-350 grain and load them up to 1800-1900 fps and they will take anything from deer to large bears or elk.
You can find mild to butt kicking loads for the 45/70, just try different loads to find the one you like and can handle. Just remember that the 300 gr. hollow points are for deer size animals only, they expand to much and will not give enought pentration for anything larger, my son found this out on a wild feral pig that got away from him due to poor pentration. He now uses 350 gr. Hornadys or 300 gr. hard cast lead for his pig loads.
RELH
Thank you again RELH, this is all really helpful. I dont plan on using hollowpoints at all in the rifle, just because no matter where im deer hunting, im also elk and bear hunting. I was planning on going on a really heavy bullet as most of the shooting i do is in the 30-80 yard range, so hopefully i can get a 405 to not kick too bad. thanks again.
C
Chef
Guest
RELH has made all the valid points concerning the comparison between these three calibers. I would go with the .45-70 as well. Versatility is the name of the game. Especially if you reload.
As far as recoil, get a quality pad installed. That helps a ton especially after taking off what Marlin considers a pad in their rifles. I have shot quite a few rifles chambered in this caliber and notice that the longer rifles such as the Cowboy versions are a pleasure to shoot. They are very well balanced and recoil less than my .444 Marlin guide gun. Accuracy is better with the longer barrel as well as getting higher velocity of course.
Have fired bullet weights well over 400gr with the 1895CB and felt recoil is actually less than when firing the 300gr. More of a push, for me anyway.
Check out marlinowners dot com for more info than you will ever need. They have an active forum and have a section especially made for the big bores. Welcome to the club!
Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
As far as recoil, get a quality pad installed. That helps a ton especially after taking off what Marlin considers a pad in their rifles. I have shot quite a few rifles chambered in this caliber and notice that the longer rifles such as the Cowboy versions are a pleasure to shoot. They are very well balanced and recoil less than my .444 Marlin guide gun. Accuracy is better with the longer barrel as well as getting higher velocity of course.
Have fired bullet weights well over 400gr with the 1895CB and felt recoil is actually less than when firing the 300gr. More of a push, for me anyway.
Check out marlinowners dot com for more info than you will ever need. They have an active forum and have a section especially made for the big bores. Welcome to the club!
Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
C
Chef
Guest
Just another note, for high quality ammo (if you dont reload) for these calibers, check out Buffalo Bore on the net. Cor Bon kicks butt too!
Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
Chef
"I Love Animals...They're Delicious!"
Rod6
New Member
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Shooting 405 hot handloads with the stock but plate and a light weight jacket left a significant bruise on my shoulder with just one shot. Switching to a heavy caliber recoil pad made it manageable for off hand target practice. Still not comfortable for multiple prone shots.
RookieWYhntr
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I was barely born in 2005.
Homer
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lol....thanks Rod...
Chesterwyo
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Skip all that. 44 magnum lever gun.
