5 point or Better Any Bull

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
With all of the talk about unlimited any bull elk I think it would be a great time look at pushing for a 5 point or better on the Any Bull units. If we are looking at going unlimited this would be a way to insure that there would still be bulls left to mature a year or two and get the breeding done.
 

shootem

Active Member
Messages
466
I would support the idea of this but with the any weapon hunt only. Let the archery and muzzy hunters shoot any bull or cow.
 

Deerlove

Long Time Member
Messages
5,174
I would support the idea of this but with the any weapon hunt only. Let the archery and muzzy hunters shoot any bull or cow.
With all of the talk about unlimited any bull elk I think it would be a great time look at pushing for a 5 point or better on the Any Bull units. If we are looking at going unlimited this would be a way to insure that there would still be bulls left to mature a year or two and get the breeding done.
Tards see fur and shoot.
 

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
But we are ok to have spike only units? Lol.
I think you keep 5 point or better for all seasons. The archery advantage is getting 30 days to hunt and some rut activice not to mention first crack. Muzzy...let’s get real, with John Bairs muzzleloaders they are no longer primitive weapons.
 

PleaseDear

Long Time Member
Messages
8,960
I could see No Spikes in the Any Bull units or maybe a 4 point or better


Hell, a 5 point or better would take Years to get to!!


Robb
 

rmanwill

Long Time Member
Messages
5,140
Time will tell if they sell way over the 15000 any bull tags. This year was an exception. In years past they did not sell out in 5 hours or even days. Even with the increase I would bet the number of bulls and success rate does not go up drastically, Just like this year, numerous people said I
"I'm going elk hunting". They found out they were going camping with a 15% or less chance of maybe seeing and killing a bull. They found out elk hunting is tough.

5 point or better. That's making them units almost limited entry quality - heck some people are killing 5 pointers on limited entry units. Elk hunting is a different game then deer hunting and much tougher with very low success rates.
 
Last edited:

shootem

Active Member
Messages
466
Does anyone know if the Division has any idea of actual success rates on any bull units. I would dare say that success on public land is less than 5%. Private land probably boast closer to that 15-20% success.
 

copple2

Active Member
Messages
608
Does anyone know if the Division has any idea of actual success rates on any bull units. I would dare say that success on public land is less than 5%. Private land probably boast closer to that 15-20% success.
The DWR stated in the recent RAC meetings that the success rate was around 10%.
 

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
Interesting comments. I don’t get that it would take years to get 5 point or better. Two years and most bulls would be legal. And it would carry from that point on.
5 point or better would be LE...hmmm. Every spike that is shot is actually a big bull, just not given the chance to be that bull. Utah’s overall acceptance of weak and horrible management is amazing.
 

fullthrottle

Very Active Member
Messages
1,136
I would 100% support a 4 point or better restriction for all weapon types. 5 point or better could be difficult, and probably a higher likelihood of hunters killing 4 point bulls and letting them lay. Much easier and depict a yearling spike from a branched 4 point than would be a 5 point. That said I’m all for that type of restriction. Is there honestly anyone that wouldn’t be for point restrictions on any bull units??
 

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
I would 100% support a 4 point or better restriction for all weapon types. 5 point or better could be difficult, and probably a higher likelihood of hunters killing 4 point bulls and letting them lay. Much easier and depict a yearling spike from a branched 4 point than would be a 5 point. That said I’m all for that type of restriction. Is there honestly anyone that wouldn’t be for point restrictions on any bull units??
I actually think you would have more spike and 3 point rag horns be mistaken for 4 points than a bull needing eyeguards and back splits. But maybe that's just me. Also make the fine expensive and people will be more careful.
 

fullthrottle

Very Active Member
Messages
1,136
Really? Don’t see to many 4 points running around without eye guards. I support it either way, 4, 5, 6 point restrictions- great as far as I’m concerned.
 

Nevadahunter

Active Member
Messages
202
Kind of a change in subject, but a change I think they should also make is only open a unit every other year for spike hunts. If you split it up you would still be able to hunt spikes every year just not the same unit every year. Hard to have 6 pointers when you are killing to many spikes......
 

fullthrottle

Very Active Member
Messages
1,136
Just about every spike unit in the state exploded with big bulls in the early 2000’s. Limiting the spike units to every other year would serve very little purpose. Enough spikes slip through the cracks to supply a healthy herd of mature bulls. Utah has proven this to be true in the past. Utah’s limited entry bull quality has slipped for 2 reasons. 1- the division gives out significantly more tags for limited entry bull hunts than pre 2010. 2-the number of cow tags given out has been severely miss managed, cow tags have been very liberally given. Examples of terrible elk herd management in regards to cow permits would be Manti, fishlake, and most recently the wasatch unit have been decimated by the division and there piss poor management. Utah still has very good limited entry elk hunting, but doesn’t hold a candle to what it once was. This has no question been a direct result of management. For better or worse, depending on how you look at it. Worse because the quality of bulls has diminished significantly. Better because we have much more opportunity.
 

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
Really? Don’t see to many 4 points running around without eye guards. I support it either way, 4, 5, 6 point restrictions- great as far as I’m concerned.
No full, that is what I am saying. I think it is easier to distinguish a 5 point than it is a 4 point.
 

rmanwill

Long Time Member
Messages
5,140
Just about every spike unit in the state exploded with big bulls in the early 2000’s. Limiting the spike units to every other year would serve very little purpose. Enough spikes slip through the cracks to supply a healthy herd of mature bulls. Utah has proven this to be true in the past. Utah’s limited entry bull quality has slipped for 2 reasons. 1- the division gives out significantly more tags for limited entry bull hunts than pre 2010. 2-the number of cow tags given out has been severely miss managed, cow tags have been very liberally given. Examples of terrible elk herd management in regards to cow permits would be Manti, fishlake, and most recently the wasatch unit have been decimated by the division and there piss poor management. Utah still has very good limited entry elk hunting, but doesn’t hold a candle to what it once was. This has no question been a direct result of management. For better or worse, depending on how you look at it. Worse because the quality of bulls has diminished significantly. Better because we have much more opportunity.
Yep and don't forget that any spike tag holder can hunt any limited entry elk unit, but they are still limited areas with big bulls. The spikes have to slip through!!!
 

Broadside_Shot

Active Member
Messages
527
I have never been a fan of Point Restrictions on General Areas. I just don't think you can take thousands of hunters and force them into shooting the top end bulls every year. It's only a short time before the biggest bulls are just 2 1/2 years old Raghorns. The only way to give "Trophy Opportunity" is to limit the Tags. Animals have to survive to become Big, JMO.
 

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
I have never been a fan of Point Restrictions on General Areas. I just don't think you can take thousands of hunters and force them into shooting the top end bulls every year. It's only a short time before the biggest bulls are just 2 1/2 years old Raghorns. The only way to give "Trophy Opportunity" is to limit the Tags. Animals have to survive to become Big, JMO.
However if they are looking at unlimited tag numbers on the any bull units are you a bigger fan of eliminating all of the bulls? Hunters are become efficient enough that we are walking a path that at some point will eliminate the resource all in the name of opportunity.
 

Broadside_Shot

Active Member
Messages
527
I am not in favor at all for unlimited tags, like most I talk too.

You do make a good point under the unlimited tags situation. It has seemed like the 15,000 any bull tags has given the most opportunity, and for the Any Bull areas I have seen bigger bulls lately vs when I started hunting 30 years ago in the Uintas. So it seems like its a good opportunity hunt with a chance at a 300 to 320 bull as is.

I do see that if chance there are double the hunters then the bulls will get decimated. Maybe the point restrictions would help keep from killing all the bulls, it would just kill the top bulls. It's going to boil down to just really how many hunters are in the field vs previous years. I guess we won't know until next year.

All in All this whole Unlimited Tags just seems like a Real Bad Idea.
 

SnakeKidd

Member
Messages
9
I have hunted any bull units as long as I can remember and they are always a tough hunt on the public land. My. I Vern is if you put extra pressure on the elk with more hunters (unlimited) then the elk become residents of the private land. I would like to see the quota to remain at 15k and then put unlimited any bull on the private land tags. Similar to the private cow tags.
I also support eye guards or better on the any bull hunts. First year success will be down but year two should add some good opportunities
 

Ultimag

Active Member
Messages
195
I would support the idea of this but with the any weapon hunt only. Let the archery and muzzy hunters shoot any bull or cow.
And I'd oppose it if that were the criteria,
The any weapon hunter pays the same if not more then the muzzy and bow hunter
Your idea, is, one sided and selfish
 

Ultimag

Active Member
Messages
195
This has been tried here in Montana, in several units, hasnt helped or improved the quality
Sounds good on. Paper but in reality it's a feelgood measure it won't do anything to improve the quality
 

Ultimag

Active Member
Messages
195
Not everyone is obsessed with big horns lot of us, hunt for meat to fill the freezer I shoot the first legal animal. I see I don't hold out for big racks, or trophy bulls, my season starts, and ends, on opening day in all 5 states I hunt with
The first legal animal. That presents a, shot my tag gets, filled weather it's, a, cow doe rag horn fork horn spike mature bull or yearling
 

wstrntines

Very Active Member
Messages
1,313
I would love 5 point or better. I let em know what I thought on the ideas. I hope a lot of others did. Unlimited tags is not going to do anything great. Elk are going to talk even less. And a three point bull will be the crown jewel of tardville. There is absolutely no reason we cannot have the quality Idaho, Wyoming and Colorado have on general elk units. It’s downright due to piss poor management and they have relied way to much on funding and very little on management.
 

Muley_73

Very Active Member
Messages
2,334
Ulitmag,
I doesn't even have anything to do with "trophy bulls". I has to do with insuring that there are mature bulls each year to breed the cows and maintain the growth and stability of the of the herd. You summed up the need for regulations like 5 point or better with your comment. Too many "sportsmen" are going to just pound what they can without regard to how it affects the resource.

Whether...not weather.
 

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