777 questions

[DonVathome]

I am going to switch from pyrodex RS to 777 loose powder in my remington 700ml. Is 777 harder to ignite? Should I use different primers? CCI magnum primers? I currently use 209 primers and I thought I read 777 is harder to ignite and one should use CCI 209 magnum primers. Anything else I need to know?

Currently I shoot 120 grains of powder, should I shoot the same amount of 777?

 

[Homer]

I shoot 777 in a sidelock with percussion caps……never has been an issue to ignite

 

[DonVathome]

I also read some say 777 does not last very long once opened? I have used pyrodex for well over a decade and never noticed any issues.

 

[yotebuster17]

777 is water based garbage. The whole reason they designed it was the “easy water clean up”. That’s also the reason why it doesn’t last very long (it absorbs water from the air) and the reason it makes a horrible crud ring when you shoot it and why it shoots great at the range shot after shot but goes to hell when you shoot it and then hunt a few days and shoot again (absorbs moisture from the air into the fouling in the barrel). Throw it in the garbage and get some BH209 (yes it’s expensive, factor the extra $60 a year into your budget and get over, the reason it’s expensive is because they only have the garbage I just got done talking about as competition).

 

[Snoopdogg]

Not a muzzleloader, but couldn't you just vacuum seal an open container into portions if it's cheaper and could last?

 

[Blank]

If you want an increase in performance (5-8%) and easier ignition, switch from your RS to Pyrodex P. I wouldn't pizz on 777. Never happy with it, hated the crud ring, inconsistent performance in varying weather conditions. If you can legally use Blackhorn 209, then the switch is worth the cost!!!

 

[Katoom]

I don’t agree with the 777 detractors. I switched from Pyrodex ages ago and see no need to ever change. I have never had a problem with opened containers going bad, and the “crud ring” issue dissapears when you get your load balanced (and DONT use magnum 209s…. use the lower powered muzzleloader/777 varieties, this alone almost completely eliminated hard carbon fouling at the breech ). It is not hard to ignite, it is way less corrosive than pyrodex, it is 10-15% more energetic than pyrodex (lower your load then work up again, 120 grains seems unnecessary, I use 100 grains of 3F with 300 grain bullet in my inline, and even much less (75-90) with a heavy conical with all loads devastating on game), and it cleans up easy, it is affordable. 2f in sidelocks works great. 3f in inlines works great.

Good luck!

 

[DonVathome]

I have not looked into blackhorn 209, but we hunt Jackson WY each year and no powder is available there so we have someone hold powder for us and we all want to shoot the same thing - they use 777. I have heard a few mention water/ignition problems.

 

[AZGuy]

Once you go Blackhorn you won’t go back.

 

[DonVathome]

Awesome choice of words!!!!

 

[Stillwater165]

Not an expert on anything but I’ve got 38 years under my belt muzzy hunting and we’ve got a pile of good whitetail to show for it. I’ve used triple 7 since it came on the scene. 110 grains under 250 grain Barnes bullets and have been wonderfully impressed. We’ve never had a misfire or wounded a deer and that’s speaking for 5 of us that use that combo in this house. Pure luck ??? Hell I don’t know !!! I know others absolutely hate it but it’s sure been good to us. I’m not gonna say anything foul about those that hate it as I’m sure they have their reasons. I just recently sold my Paramount and have 6 jugs of black horn here but it just doesn’t seem to group as well in my Thompson Centers , 3 Omegas and 1 Impact. I also noticed hunting this season which went from 65 degrees to under zero the last couple days after I fired that paramount off it was just as dirty as my T/C I also carried with triple 7 in it ????? That’s just my personal experience so take it for what it’s worth ! All our guns will shoot a little over 1 inch groups at a hundred if we do our part. This jug I’m using now is over 3 years old, kept in my reloading room in the basement right along with all my rifle powders so I haven’t noticed any issue with shelf life either.

 

[Fire_Hawk]

777 has worked awesome in my Knight Wolverine 209 extreme (think Bighorn). With the 209 primers in Knight discs and a Barnes Spitfire bullet, it has been extremely reliable and deadly on muleys.

I use Blackhorn in my CVA Accura MR-X, but won't hesitate to use 777 if required.

In my Knight, a plunger style gun, I don't have to worry about the crud ring. But I hear that is an issue with a "bolt style or break action style". At the range, I wipe with a saliva soaked patch after every shot in my Knight. For clean up, soap and water.

Blackhorn you have to use a solvent to get it clean. Works well too, but I have had great results from 777.

 

[Joe2Kool]

I've shot 777 in my Knight LK-93 (AKA Wolverine) for probably 20 years with no issues. I use two 50 grain pellets and a 300 grain Hornady SST sabot. My aim point is the same at 50 yards and 100 yards.
I converted my Knight to use 209 primers. I typically use the Winchester ML primers, but have used other brands over the years. No ignition problems, well, only one. It had been pouring so I give it a pass.
I've also got boxes of pellets that have been open several years and I've never had to ditch any for moisture. They are always stored in plastic ammo cans but sometimes inside, and sometimes in the garage.
I've heard lots of good things about BH 209, but with my stash of 777, accuracy, success on deer, and reliability of ignition, I can't see myself changing anytime soon.
I will add that after about 5-6 shots, it is stiffer loading the bullet, but I haven't noticed any difference in performance. I am a clean freak when it comes to my ML so after every range session, it gets cleaned. If I hunt and don't shoot it, it still gets a light cleaning.

 

[Stillwater165]

Two things in the muzzy game equal success ……… CLEAN and DRY ! All our guns get cleaned after they are shot, cleaned again about 6 months after season and again right before season. Before we hunt any of them I dry fire at least 3 primers to DRY up any remaining oil before we load them. Then before they leave the house the barrels get taped shut with clear masking tape. Zero issues with any type of powder ! I tried the triple 7 pellets many many years ago, killed plenty of deer with them also but accuracy improved drastically when we switched to loose triple 7. My son used a couple out of that box of pellets this winter for a late season doe hunt…….. gun went boom……… dead doe ! I don’t even want to guess how old that box is !

 

[diablo]

Bh209 is by far the best sub available. 777 is a close second. No, it isn’t any tougher to ignite than Pyrodex. You will get more of a crud ring with mag primers. Best bet is to use a standard or “muzzy” 209.

Welcome to the 21st century. I didn’t think anyone was still using Pyrodex…lol.

 

[Fire_Hawk]

I am also NOT a fan of pellets. I only use loose powder. From goex FFG in my Hawken, to BH209 in my CVA and the 777 and Pyrodex in my Wolverine. I have no need for a pellet, and I have the distinct advantage of "handloading" the best load for my particular rifle. Sometimes, 5 grains can make all the difference in accuracy.

 

[DonVathome]

I hunted with my 700ml lots, several days of rain etc. Always went off perfectly. Until 1 year in Jackson WY in Dec. Single digits and I took my loaded gun into hotel each night and stood against the wall. My sabots fit TIGHT never thought water would get passed but had a shot and saw my bullet fly 30 feet and fall! Literally. Reloaded any got my elk but the only thing I can think of is condensation inside barrel ran down and got past sabot and soaked powder. I leave my gin in the truck now. I learned all tricks and simply never thought there would be enough condensation in my barrel to run down, let alone get past sabot - but it did.

I have 0 issues with pyrodex, and have cans 15 years old that shoot great. I would like less fouling but I clean it often so not a big deal.

 

[Togwotee]

I also have a 700ML and I've been shooting Pyrodex. I have to use musket caps here, will blackhorn work with those and would I use the same charge?

Muzzleloaders make no sense to me. the charges and bullet weights don't change like centerfire's. I never really know if I'm leaving velocity on the table or overdoing it.

 

[diablo]

I have to use musket caps here, will blackhorn work with those and would I use the same charge?

No Bh209 requires a 209 primer (preferably a mag 209).

 

[bobcat_trapper]

I shoot blackhorn in my CVA Optima V2 50 cal LR nitride rifle. I have several cans of it. But if it keeps going up. I will go back to 777. I have had same 777 opened for yrs no issues . When i shot 777. I used a regular Winchester 209 primer.