7E Lost Archery Bull

E

Extremebull

Member
Messages
39
Hi Guys,

I hunted hard for 13 days in 7E on the archery elk hunt. On the 13th evening I called in a good bull to 22 yards. Unfortunately, I hit him in the shoulder blade and got half penetration on my arrow. Tracked him all day on the 14th day (final day) with very little blood. Jumped him twice in heavy cover but never got to finish him. Very disappointing!
The bull is a 350-360" clean 6x6 with good width and his main beams tip up in the back. His left shoulder is broken and the last time I saw him, my orange & green fletched ACC was still in him. Muzzy MX3 broadhead.
Bull was last headed southerly just east of Hall Tank (near Indian Flat). He should still be in that vicinity since he traveled 500 to 800 yards after being jumped each time.
I would be incredibly grateful to anyone with any information about this bull.

Steve Chappell (602) 663-0667
 
In my above post I made an error. I meant to say the bull was headed southerly and crossed the road just WEST of Hall Tank.
Thanks for any help.

Steve
 
SORRY TO HEAR THAT STEVE, HOPE YOU RECOVER YOUR BULL. WISH I COULD BE THERE TO HELP YOU LOOK. STILL LOOKING FORWARD TO HUNTING WITH YOU............YD.
 
Thanks YD. I look forward to hunting big bulls with you as well. I remain optimistic and will keep you posted on any news about my bull.

Steve.
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for your interest and concern. Here's an update.

My bull was found by a very gracious sportsman on the rifle cow hunt in 7E. I was put in touch with him and we visited and confirmed that it is, without a doubt, my bull. My arrow was still in the bull when he was found.
We contacted Game & Fish and since I am guiding in Colorado right now, a good friend of mine accompanied two Game & Fish officers this past Sunday to recover the antlers.

Currently the antlers are in the possession of Game & Fish. I am waiting for them to return my calls so that I can go claim and tag the bull. I did the right and honorable thing by involving G & F in this. Hopefully, they call me back soon so that I can show them my proof and bring the bull home. I believe that they will.
I will keep you posted...

Steve

P.S. THANK YOU Charlie and Anthony for all of your help. You guys are awesome.
 
Right on Steve. Glad you followed up and did the honorable thing. G&F is pretty good about detecting honorable guys, so I hope you get your bull back.



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."
 
I am happy for you Steve!! I know the sick feeling when an animal is lost and at least this way there is some closure. Neat when sportsmen help one and other out and you are certainly well deserving. nwhunter
 
Steve: Glad to hear you found your Bull it's always nice to about sportsman helping sportsman.Sounds like a happy ending.Take care Jeff in NM
 
I appreciate all the support and friendship!

I went down to Game & Fish today with the intention of tagging my bull and bringing him home. I was ready to show video, GPS coordinates, arrow, etc.
Unfortunately, I was not able to show any of my proof or bring the rack home with me. I met with a couple of officers and was informed that under the law they can't allow me to tag the bull since I did not recover him during the season. They were very professional in their handling of the situation. They knew that my story and facts all checked out. But, the law is the law. Even though I am disappointed, I understand.
Here's the silver lining. My bull will be sold at auction this coming winter/spring. Most likely at the Phoenix I.S.E. Show. I plan to attend and buy my bull back. Ha ha!
I would greatly appreciate it if fellow sportsmen would get the word out so that I don't have to compete with anyone to purchase this rack that I feel is rightfully mine. I hunted extremely hard and made a huge effort to recover this bull.

I still feel that I made the right choice by involving the Game & Fish in the recovery of my bull. I'm sure that I could have just tagged and brought the bull home, but I have a clear conscience knowing that my friends and I obeyed the law. Ultimately, the Lord will honor that.
Thanks again guys for your encouragement. Hope you enjoy the photo of my bull taken today at G & F. Notice my arrow that was recovered with the bull. I will bring him home this coming spring!
Thanks again to Charlie, Anthony & Jeff...
3137imag0310.jpg
 
Well at least you got to hold him. Hope you can get him back in the spring.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Good for you Steve i hope you get them back in the spring.

"I met with a couple of officers and was informed that under the law they can't allow me to tag the bull since I did not recover him during the season"

I do not agree with this law at all.We discussed this very topic at the Non-Res Hunter safety course in January.

So if you are hunting on the last evening of the season and stick a bull it's a good hit but he runs off what do you do.You can't wait till the morning for this very reason.Do you take a chance and go after him knowing you may bump him and loose him for good?If it gets dark you can't have your bow with you to finish him off if needed that's against the law to.

So what's the answer don't hunt the last evening,the last day, what? Any thoughts?
 
Hello Steve,
Sometimes I have to wonder where common sense went! I absolutely respect your approach to this whole event and I applaud your ethics but, , , , , I cannot for the life of me support the G&F for their handling of this situation.
Where is the incentive to "follow the law?"

Elkchaser
 
Steve congrats on a great bull!!!! I hope that all honest sportsmen at the auction won't bid and you get your bull for $1. Maybe that would send a message to the G&F that this is a law that needs to be changed or common sense should prevail in alot of cases.
 
Nice bull Steve glad you got to at least put your hands on him and hopefully soon will be on your wall. How about this , nobody will bid on your horns as long as you put the hunt on EB 7 and it has to come out this spring. No more every other year video wait for us Extreme Bull fans!! Scott
 
Good Morning Steve,
I have to admit that your story is really troubling me. You did everything within the law, and you still have to try to buy YOUR BULL back at auction!? It is becoming harder & harder for me to support our G & F when they pull stunts like this!

Honor, Honesty, Integrity, Ethics! These are all essential elements of our sport. If you had simply kept your mouth shut & taken your bull home, you break the law and compromise those standards.
If you maintain these standards, you give up your hard earned trophy.

I will make every effort to attend the auction and I will make sure everyone there is aware of this story. Perhaps all the true Sportsmen out there will make sure this trophy is returned to the rightful owner. Perhaps we could even send a clear message to G & F as well.

Elkchaser
 
Thanks guys! I will be at the ISE Show with plans to "buy my bull back".
I appreciate and welcome any help. There may be someone there that has no idea of the story behind this bull. They may want to buy the rack to display in their mountain cabin, etc.

Hopefully, this does not happen, but with what has gone on so far I don't want to take any chances. Again, I have no hard feelings toward G & F. They must uphold the laws, even if it's the hard, unpopular thing to do. Perhaps this particular law should be adjusted, but it would not be easy.
It's awesome that everyone can relate to my feelings about this. By all means I would have loved nothing more than to recover my bull on the 14th day of the hunt. We worked our tails off all day tracking and unfortunately jumping the bull.
It just wasn't meant to be I guess.

Thanks again to Charlie for being such a true sportsman. Without him I would have no possibility to get my bull back and have closure to this whole situation.
I'm leaving for some more guiding but wanted to say a sincere thanks to all of you guys!
I will keep you posted regarding the place, day and time of the auction. We will get this bull back! And Scott, this hunt will definitely be a part of EB 7!

Steve
 
Hi Steve, this is my first post here and I registered just so I could respond to this thread. By the way I have enjoyed all of your video's you've made, enjoyed watching you and your presentation at the RMEF meeting in 2005, and congrats on your line of Diaphram Elk calls!

I read about this story on CWT from the gentleman that found your Bull. Every time I read a story where AZ game and Fish is involved it amazes me more and more, and I DO NOT mean this for the good. Trus tme I want nothing more than to support AZGFD but I would have to agree with them to do so and they make it very hard. I am sorry to hear about the trouble with getting your Bull back even though you have all the proof they need. I honor your integrety and public respect for them but you are a much bigger person than I would be in this situation. They want to uphold the law here and not give this Bull to the rightfull owner???? Yet they will bend the law as they see fit when they feel like it, as the story about them doing the fly-by survey for an Antelope survey recently and were "harrasing wildlife" while someone was hunting when they clearly saw the hunter, and turned around and made more passes. Have heard more stories like this. Also heard stories like yours. People get Game and fish involved about a rack they found or recovered thiers later and guess what? Yep, AZGFD confiscates and auctions them.

It seems like greed drives them and they do not care in the least but about the people and residents who have supported them their whole life. That is why they are auctioning it. I know you think you did the right thing but you should have known what would happen what they would do once they got thier sticky hands on it. Heck I could have made this prediction to the tee and have in the past with other finds, unfortunately....

I sure hope you get this rack back for a dollar as well. Sorry for my frustration but they make it harder and harder to support and respect them evrytime I hear or read about a story like this. They bring this upon themselves, I wish they didn't. Good luck man and I can't wait to seem him in your next EB along with your story!
 
Steve,

I for one can't wait to see the new DVD! Too bad Game & Fish is not as ethical and straight forward as you. You went out of your way to "include them" in the recovery of YOUR bull (when you didn't have to) and they decide that they have the right to keep it- unbelievable!!!
I could see if maybe your arrow was not recovered with the bull it could have been questionable, but in this situation what a crock. It's also interesting that they did not allow you to show any of your proof, i.e. Video, GPS coordinates, etc. I'm sure that would have made it crystal clear to them that it was your bull. I guess dollars are more important to them than integrity.

I am like several posters on here. Typically I stay out of the middle of things but I just couldn't help myself when I saw this post on another forum. Seems that there is some grey area and that maybe that "law" does leave room for interpretation depending on the circumstances. Perhaps maybe those officers should have "shown" that law to you. Or, were they on their Barney Fife powertrips that day?!
Anyway, here's the thread. Steve, sorry that you weren't treated with the same fairness and respect that this hunter was. Notice this bull was also found AFTER the season.
__________________________________________________________

"I try to stay out of the hunting drama but I can not keep my mouth shut on this one. I have followed the whole issue with Steve losing his bull and tonight when I came across this it really ticked me off.
http://www.muleycrazy.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1702

So Game and Fish did not let Steve take his bull because it was not recovered during the hunt. Well I can respect that since it was a law and Steve has the option to buy his bull back at the ISE show. But when I saw that game and fish was allowing this hunter to take possesion of his bull that was recovered after the hunt , it kinda upset me.

I don't like to get caught up in this drama but I have heard nothing but great things about Steve and I don't think he was treated fair on his case.
The WM for unit 8 has my respect for doing the right thing and allowing the unit 8 archery hunter to take possesion of his bull".
http://www.muleycrazy.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1702

While out scouting today in unit 8 my buddy and I found a nice bull if anyone lost a bull or know of anyone who lost a bull in the last few days in 8 let me know and I will show them where it is. All that I ask is a description of the bull and what kind of aarrow you shoot. I want this to go back to the owner.gibby

Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:26 am
Location: Flagstaff, Az Top
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Re: found unit 8 bull
by gibby ? Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:29 pm

We found the hunter today and with a small investigation by Az Game and Fish as long as everything checks out he will be able to keep his Bull.gibby

Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:26 am
Location: Flagstaff, Az Top
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Re: found unit 8 bull
by robertramsey61 ? Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:20 pm

Good luck on you and Mike's upcoming hunt in there!!robertramsey61

Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:08 pm Top
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Re: found unit 8 bull
by gibby ? Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:33 pm

Thanks Robert congrats to you on your bull. The warden gave the bull back today it scored 367 2/8.gibby

Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:26 am
Location: Flagstaff, Az Top
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Re: found unit 8 bull
by robertramsey61 ? Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:38 am

WOW, good bull, that guy must have been happy to get it back. After I saw your post I talked to Mike he made it sound like an ok elk, 367 is a great bull!!robertramsey61

Posts: 146
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:08 pm

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THIS?! EITHER THE UNIT 8 WM BROKE "THE LAW" OR STEVE GOT RIPPED OFF!

AZELK1
 
Same thing happened to me a few years back shot a bull right before dark with like 3 days left in the season, looked for 2 days afterwards and did not find him until a week later involved the G&F. They confirmed my story and I recieved my elk no questions asked. steve's story sounds a little strange to me. I think we rally around Steve get the word out where he only has to spend that dollar for his elk.
 
AZELK1, I'm the one that copy and pasted that info on coueswhitetail from muley crazey. After thinking about it I have came to the conclusion that that there has to be more to the stories that we are not seeing or Game and Fish is making a example out of Steve since he is a guide. I have noticed over the years that Game and Fish has a huge hard on for guides in this state.
 
Yes the G&F seem to be harder on guides then everyone else for some reason or another.
 
so as the law reads if you shot a bull on the last day of the hunt and you don't recover him until the next morning you're in violation of the law, WOW I wonder where the spirit of the law has went and has common sense left the building.
This law need changing for sure. Anyone who has recovered a animal after the last day are punished for doing what is right and that is recoving the animal that they had killed.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 02:05PM (MST)[p]I asked a few friends of mine that work for the department and this is what I was told.

They told me that this rule was created because of people misjudging or shooting the wrong bull, buck etc . and leaving it lay as a back up animal while they continue to hunt for a trophy. then if they do or dont kill a bigger bull they go back and pick up the animal claiming it was a lion kill etc. after the hunt .They also said that the so called law states that any animal that is killed by man is automatically the property of the state . as in getting hit by a car, poached or wounded by a hunter. Then I was told that they are trying to push the law that even if you find a lion kill or a buck that died of old age your not allowed to pick it up. whats next ? them saying its against the law to pick up sheds ?

Looks like game and fish is trying to micro manage us and only care about the cash. If this bull ##### keeps up and i'm sure it will. I will stop buying hunting license's, tags , donating to the heritage fund and will hunt out of state only.
 
Hello lonshooter,
Did your buddies at the G&F happen to mention exactly which statute they were referring to?
As I stated earlier, I scrutinized both the published hunting regs, AND the Arizona Revised Statutes and I could not not find anything that requires the department to make the decision that they did in this case.
I would also like to understand how the same circumstances in another unit were handled entirely different?
The reason this whole thing is troubling me so much is that it encourages all of us to "bend the law".
I still need to see the statute.

I wonder if OUTDOORWRITER has been following this thread? He is usually able to come up with correct info.

Elkchaser
 
I can ask one of them when I talk to them next. I have asked all 3 of them to come on here and explain the rules and why the 2 incidents were handled completly different and they all told me that game and fish does not want their employees posting anything on the internet blah blah blah.


I would also like to see the rules on this as well. I think Steve did not deserve the ruling he got and I honestly think his ruling had alot to do with him being a guide.
 
To all who have been following this thread, , ,
Am I the only one that finds it interesting that NO ONE can seem to find anything in the current hunting regs, or the Arizona Revised Statutes, that covers this type of situation?
If such a rule exists, where is it?
Am I the only one that is outraged by the G&F behavior in this event?
Why haven't the folks who are more familiar with "the law" come on here to explain how this has been allowed to happen?

Steve,
Have you privately consulted an attorney to explore your options?
Respect for the law is commendable. Tolerance for those who abuse the law (especially if they are wearing a badge & a gun!)is unexceptable!

Regards,
Elkchaser
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-15-10 AT 01:34PM (MST)[p]Steve,

I had a conversation with one of my upper echelon contacts at G&F. I'm sending you a PM.

For the rest of you, the explanation for what happened is sort of convoluted, but it relates to having a carcass and/or wildlife parts without having any proof of legality. I don't have time right now to explain it all. Will do when I get back from my Kaibab hunt.

TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Hello again OutdoorWriter,
I was hoping you would be following this story and pursue your connections within the G&F for an answer.
Thank you for your efforts!
I keep asking myself why I am having such a hard time letting this go.
After all, this didn't happen to me. It just galls me to no end that this could happen to anyone.
We all know how hard these tags are to get, and how much time, money, & effort is expended to be successfull. I still find it outrageous that the G&F did what they did.
This could be an opportunity for the G&F to "do the right thing". Or this could turn out to be just one more example of what many are seeing as the continuing decline of The Arizona Game & Fish Department.
G&F knows better than anyone how important it is to maintain the respect, and support, of the hunting public.
If Steve hasn't already done so, he should consult a lawyer and force the department to justify their actions in this case.
I sure as hell would!
I'm sure there are a lot of people that are anxious to hear the "convoluted" explanation from the department.
Hope your having a good hunt up on the Kaibab and thank you again for efforts.

Regards,
Elkchaser
 
I can understand Steve contacting AZG&F about his lost bull as he has alot more to lose in AZ because of his elk guiding business than most people but after reading about this how many people do you think are now going to follow the AZ law if they lose a 360 plus bull that they probably have been waiting on a tag for years ? I don't think many people would now call AZG&F if someone called them and said they found your bull knowing AZG&F won't let them have it regaurdless of proof. 360 bull, two weeks of hunting archery, hard to get tag, once in a lifetime bull for many, lose your bull, another hunter finds your bull, call AZG&F ?.... I don't think so. Hope you get your bull back Steve.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-10 AT 10:47PM (MST)[p]Tony,

Good deal! I hope that something positive comes out of this situation due to your contact at G & F.

Keep us posted if you would. Hope your hunt goes well.
 
Hey Steve,

I was waiting for you to mention something like that. My buddies dad is a high ranking official at fish and game and I emailed him this topic. Hope he's the one that reached out to you! Hope you get back what belongs to you!
 
Hello Guys,

Thanks again for all of your support, encouragement, and advice. Here's a quick update on the situation with my bull.

I did go ahead and "Petition the Commission" for a hearing regarding my bull. In the petition I described the events of my hunt and the circumstances and facts surrounding the recovery of the antlers. I made reference in the petition to this forum. Hopefully, I will hear back from the Director soon with a hearing date. By the way, Game & Fish was very helpful with the petition process and how I should go about it.


With the fact of the unit 8 hunter being awarded his bull back under similar circumstances there is certainly a precedence set here. Thanks guys for bringing that to light. I just want to be treated with the same fairness as he was.

A sincere thanks to Charlie Rust (who found my bull). Without him and his honesty and graciousness, I would have no chance for a happy ending to this.

I will keep you posted on how this petition turns out. Hopefully, I get to tag and bring home my bull soon.
Here is one more photo taken that day at Game & Fish in Flag.
3785imag0307.jpg





Thanks again guys!

Steve
 
Hello Steve,
Do you know anyone that has "Petitioned the Commission"? If so, I urge you to ask them about the process and how it all turned out. I strongly suggest that you rally as much support as you possibly can to join you at your hearing. The Commission just doesn't seem to hear very well when it is just one person presenting their case, , , no matter how just, compelling, or well prepared the case!

I won't bore you with the details but, in 1994, after recieving my 15th consecutive rejection for an elk tag, I went through the same process.

I was not successful.

I strongly believe that, had I been able to bring along a
"cheering section", my request would have been taken more seriously. A similar, "watered down", proposal was passed the following year. (Now, a percentage of all tags are reserved for "Max Points".)

Let us know if they put you on the agenda, and where & when the Commission Meeting will be.
I will be there.

Good Luck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-10 AT 08:11AM (MST)[p]Elkchaser,

Thanks! I do not know anyone that has petitioned the commission. I have not heard anything back so far regarding mine.
Can really see your point about rallying support for the hearing if I am granted one. I would welcome you to be there and anyone else that has been following this story.
Given that the commission will most likely have no prior knowledge about my situation, it would be highly probable that I would have to start from square one at the hearing and have no guarantee of a favorable outcome even with all of my proof.

Once the season ended, my bull is considered a "wounding loss" and becomes the property of the state. Right or wrong that is the policy.
However, there is obviously some room for exceptions to be made given the other hunters that were awarded their bulls back after the season had ended. Does anyone else have other examples of this?

For me at this point it seems much easier to get my bull back at the auction, since if I am granted a hearing it wouldn't be until January or February anyway. The auction is in February.

I don't have anything to "prove" to Game & Fish so that is not my motivation for the petition. I did it at the urging of other sportsmen and those on this forum. I just want my bull back that I worked so hard to hunt, shoot and recover. If it happens to be at the auction then that is fine too. As long as there is a happy ending I'm OK with it. I really want Charlie Rust's sportsmanship to be honored when it's all said and done. He knows how appreciative I am for what he did.

If I am granted a hearing date I will sure let you know and thanks for your support. And Tony, thanks again...;-)

Steve
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-10 AT 03:14PM (MST)[p]Steve,

One thing that is a bit confusing, though I think I had it straight. Did you report the loss to G&F befoe the season closed, or is it as I thought; you reported it only after the other hunter had found the dead bull, ie. after the hunt was over??

If the latter, that is the sticking point. It means you have no way to PROVE you put your arrow in that bull during the actual season. I realize you didn't, BUT...the scenario of hunting after the season closed is why that policy of "no proof of legal kill" is in place.

I'd bet if you had contacted G&F the night you shot that bull, they would have no qualms about returning the anters to you.

That said, I hope the commissioners are compassionate enough to do the right thing.


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Tony,

You are correct. I did not report to Game & Fish that I had hit the bull. At that point I was not aware of what their policy is regarding wounded animals, nor did I know how this would all eventually turn out. I contacted them after my bull was found by Charlie to err on the side of caution and do what I thought was the right and ethical thing.
I think that the rule/law that applies to this should be clearly spelled out in the game regs so that all hunters know. I still have not "seen" Arizona's rule regarding this. Has anyone else?

New Mexico spells it out in their regs. http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/publications/documents/rib/2010/BG_RIB_2010.pdf
Check out the last section on page 41 of their regs.

I do have the proof necessary to establish the date and time of the shot. My video footage is coded with the date and time. Also, my GPS shows where I parked my truck that evening, where the shot was taken, blood trailing waypoints the next day, and both spots where we jumped the bull on the 14th day. All waypoints show date, times, and locations.
The day I drove to Flagstaff and met with Game & Fish I was not given the opportunity to show this proof. I'm not sure that a phone call on the 14th day of the season would have made any difference in the outcome with the way it was explained to me that day.
I have no bone to pick with Game & Fish since they must follow policy, make decisions, and stand by them.
If I get my bull back at the auction, then that's good enough for me. I know in my heart that my cousin and I hunted hard, had a great time, did everything ethically, and then busted our tails to recover this bull. That's what matters to me.

God Bless Charlie Rust for what he did. I wish that all of us were as thoughtful and unselfish as him. The world would be a much better place!
Thanks again everyone...

Steve
 
>>I think that the rule/law that applies to this should be clearly spelled out in the game regs so that all hunters know. I still have not "seen" Arizona's rule regarding this. Has anyone else?<<

Agree. In fact, I challenged our contact at G&F to show where the policy was spelled out. After a check with the enforcement division, he called me back to explain it, saying it is a department enforcement directive. Reason it is not a rule and printed in the regs is because of the hold on ALL rulemaking by the governor's office that has been in place for a few years now.

Hopefully, the commission will allow you to present your actual documentation and realize how ridiculous it would be to deny you posession of your bull considering that proof.

TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Hello Guys,

I want to thank everyone again for their support and advice during my continuing saga to get my bull back.

I have some good news! I was just notified today that The Game & Fish has granted me a hearing before the Commission to present my case. The hearing is scheduled for Friday, January 14th, 2011 at the Game & Fish Office on West Carefree Highway.

The Commission meeting starts at 8 AM. My petition is item 9A on the agenda. I am told that the Commission can take items out of order so there is no definite time on when my case will be heard. On the schedule, it shows it before lunch. There will also be opportunity for those in the public to make comments before the commission prior to lunch. The commission will most likely have no prior knowledge of my case, and I'm not sure how much time I'll be given to present my story and evidence. So, there is no guarantee of a positive outcome.

I would welcome and appreciate any positive support at the hearing from those of you that have followed this thread. I am very hopeful for a "just" outcome in about 10 days and to finally get to bring my bull home!

Thanks again everyone!

Steve Chappell
 
Steve,
Iappreciate the way you have handled this situation with patience and understanding. It seems many of us would have complained and been upset with the GD. I have heard you speak at seminars and have learned from your info. I just wish that someday I could hunt with you. Godd luck on the hearing. Those antlers should be yours.

Steve Armstrong
 
Steve:

I have watched this post with a lot of interest, and for a number of reasons.

One thing I will assure you. They (Commissioners) will know everything that has been written by anyone that is in the department's file BEFORE the hearing.

I have petitioned the Commission several times. Once for myself and once for a friend. Each time I was successful.

With the evidence that you have, I would really be surprised to see them not give the antlers back to you.

And yes, the person who found them did the right thing and he is to be commended!

Good luck at your hearing, wish I could be there to watch it, and I wish you the best.

Please keep us in the loop on this.

Don Martin
AWO
 
It was totally up to the game warden's discretion if he wanted to let you keep the bull.
I would not hold my breath with the Commission THEY ARE GOING TO BACK THE WARDEN!
I do think because you are a guide that warden had bias.

Also when it goes to auction they will set a mininum bid unfortunately it will be higher than a $1.
 
Don & Steve,

Thanks. I sure appreciate it.
It sounds like I could use your help there Don! This will be my first ever appearance before the Commission. I hope that it goes as well for me as it has for you.

Congratulations on your awesome 6A muzzle loader bull. He is sure going to look great on your wall!

I'll keep you all posted on how it turns out on January 14th. Again, I welcome any support from you guys and hope to see you at the meeting.

Steve Chappell
 
Steve,

I have a good feeling about the whole thing! With your reputation and great attitude everything will work out for the best! I wish I could be there to lend my support, but Jeff and I will be in southern New Mexico chasing javelina's with the bows! I'll give you a call later to see how everything turned out! I'll be praying for the right outcome!!



Good Luck!

Jed
 
Well guys I'm sorry to report that I was not given my antlers back at the hearing. What can I say? I think it's a sad day for ethical hunters when honesty doesn't pay off.

Here are the reasons I was given;
1. The Commission stated that "my tag is valid only for the season and dates that it was issued for. Upon the season ending, my tag immediately became void and therefore I cannot legally tag my bull after the season".

2. According to Game & Fish the Unit 8 officer that returned the antlers to the rightful hunter violated both regional and Department policy by doing so and did not discuss his actions through the respective chain of command. According to G & F "appropriate personnel performance correction has occurred for the officer involved".

So, after this whole process and two trips to Game & Fish, I must buy my antlers at the public auction in order to get them back.
Wish I had better news to report. Hope none of you ever have to go through this process. Shoot a little better than I did and you won't have to.

Steve

P.S. Elkchaser, thanks for being there and for your support and well thought out comments to the commission.
 
Steve:

What a bummer!

Good luck at the Expo, hope all ethical sportsmen there will understand the situation and give you a break.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
 
I wish I could honestly say that this is unbelievable but I can't! Very disapointing that game depts. can't be reasonable with these issues that are a little unusual but not illegal. For crying out loud there is video evidence of what happened! And they wonder why we as hunters don't just get all warm and fuzzy when we run into a game warden in the woods even when we are doing everything right. Sorry Steve I had hopes they would treat you right with your history of being ethical and honest. You will get them just have to wait a little longer.nwhunter
 
Ah man, SC...what a major rip off!

i commend your decent efforts, while shaking my head in disgust at how your honorability was just thrown back in your face like that. It is pretty damned silly of them fellers, that's about as diplomatically as i can say it :)

anyway, hopefully word has spread sufficiently that no one will have the bad manners to bid against you at auction, and you can get back YOUR horns without getting completely gouged again

Good Luck man!
 
Steve real sorry i could not make it to hearing. Sounds like it might not have made any difference. Dont think GF is right on this one at all. When I found that bull just wanted to get it back to the guy that shot. We can all just spread the word that its yours and hopefully know one else bids on it. The unfortunate part is that GF is making everyone that reads this second guess ever getting them involved and taking there chances. Good Luck.

Charlie Rust
 
So if you shoot a bull at dark on the last day of the season and you don't find it until the next morning you're breaking the law is this right that means you are tagging the bull after the dates of the season.Spirit of the law just got kicked in the nuts.That would make alot of hunters lawbreakers I would think. I can't count how many time guys have told me that they had to back off and wait until the next day to find a animal they had taken so just at dark, now if it happens on the last day you're breaking the law if you wait until morning, so it is better to risk pushing the animal and lose it then end up breaking the law. The higher up's in F&G don't see common sense in this.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Thanks Charlie,

Without your sportsmanship this would not even be the story that it is.

I think that there is still a happy ending coming. This has certainly taught me more patience!

I appreciate what you did that day in the field when you found my bull, and thought of another hunter, instead of only what you might do with the rack. Maybe we can meet at the I.S.E. Show and take a photo with the rack together. It would be a fitting ending for both of us.

Thanks again,

Steve Chappell
 
Gator,

Technically you are correct. The tag expires upon the season ending and is no longer valid to "legally" tag the animal. That's what the commission stated to me.
Prior to the hearing, my understanding was that my tag was valid for "taking" (shooting) an animal only during the open season. The recovery is or can be a separate issue depending on what happens after a shot. That was my thought. Of course I never thought that you could legally carry a weapon and "finish off" an animal after the season date has closed- even though that would be the ethical thing to do for the animal. That would open up an entirely new issue!

That is a very tough situation on the last night of a hunt. I'm sure that it happens every year and leaves hunters in a dilemma over what to do. Pushing an animal is never the right decision when you have wounded them- even on the last evening.

Like nwhunter says there should be a great deal of thought and consideration given to each situation if it's "unusual" and not illegal. When there is no wrong intent and no law broken.
Maybe someday an adjustment will be made to policies to account for these situations.

Steve Chappell
 
Steve:

Here is a thought after you get the photos of you two together. Contact the president of the AES and ask him if you could write a story about all of this and put it in their magazine?

Will make for some interesting reading for sure.

I can sure understand part of the Commission's rationale, but given ALL the uncontroverted evidence in this case, sure don't understand the final result.

Good luck at the show,hope that at least goes well!

Don Martin
AWO

P.S. For the sake of accuracy I would ask the Dept. to give you a written transcript of the hearing so you have exactly the language that was used by all.
 
Don,

Thanks. As you can imagine, I am not assuming anything and hope that there are no surprises with the auction.

That's a great idea about writing an article about my hunt and the entire experience. If all goes well at the auction I will give it some serious consideration.

I by no means want to slam Game & Fish, the Commission, or any Officers. I know that you aren't suggesting that I do by writing an article- just that it's a very unique story. Even though the decisions have not gone my way, I have been treated with respect. My evidence or proof has never been disputed.

Maybe at some point an exception to this Directive could be implemented for cases like mine where there is "uncontroverted evidence". Who knows, even if this were to happen there would still probably be cases with grey area. There always seems to be.

Steve Chappell
 
Steve
Writing the story may help some-one in the future not be catch-up a mess like this and maybe the F&G will post some clear understanding what you can and can't do after the dark on the last day of your hunt because you shoot a animal just before dark.I would hate to see a wounded animal just suffer because you couldn't shoot and put it down or tag it because you didn't find until the next morning or a hunter not even picking up a animal because he thinks he can't. Clearer understanding will hopefully come from this ordeal.Like if you shoot a animal at dark, When should you call the Game warden will he show up and walk the track with you so you can tag it the next morning or are you just SOL. a clearing up of this will help everyone I think.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Hello again Steve,
It was nice to see you again at the Sportsmans Expo! Very glad you were able to "recover your Bull", , , , FINALLY.
I will let you tell the folks how much it cost you.

I have given this event alot of thought and yes, I am still very troubled by what the G&F did to you.

The Arizona Game & Fish Commission only hurt the Department & the Wildlife they are empowered to preserve, with their remarks & their final decision. It was predetermined, misguided, and, in my opinion, will send a very different message to the hunting public than what they would prefer.

Does the AZG&F really believe that anyone that has followed this story, will contact them in a similar situation?

I have nothing but respect for the way you conducted yourself throughout this entire ordeal.
Your character in this situation should serve as a positive example to all Sportsmen & Women.

Someone once said: "Character is doing the right thing even when there is no one there to notice it".
I still believe that is the core principle that all true Sportsmen & Women follow.

I wish the Arizona Game & Fish Commission had better Character!

Best of luck to you on all your future hunts and CONGRATULATIONS on a fantastic bull.

Sincerely,
Doug Karraker(aka, elkchaser)
 
Steve:

I haven't heard, what did it cost you to recover "YOUR" bull?

I also agree with the above posts.

Boy, considering how they handled this situation with you will no doubt cause others who have read this to second guess the situation, if it happened to them.

And that is a shame! The Commission had a real chance here to show that they recognize what a lawful, ethical sportsmen does in a situation like this.

By the way, in Hunter Education, we teach students that ethics is defined as "What you do when no one is watching."

We pose three questions to them on determining if it is an ethically correct decision. They are,
1) Is it legal?
2) Is it safe?
3) Would you tell a friend what you did?

I guess the "legal eagles" have sorted all of question 1, and I can't dispute that, but in my own personal opinion you did everything right! You are indeed a shining example to others on how to handle things like this.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-11 AT 08:28PM (MST)[p]Steve,
Good to meet you at the show Saturday. I also was glad to see that you did get your antlers back. I wish GF would seriously take a look at that policy. They should be better than that. I hope they use your 300 wisely.
Take care,
Steve Armstrong
 
Guys,

I can't tell you how happy and relieved I am right now! Just finished up at the International Sportsman's Expo. in Glendale.
This story all ended well on Thursday at the show when I was able to get my bull back for the minimum bid of $300. A couple of guys even walked up and chipped in to help me with that. I was incredibly humbled by that!
Thanks to my Dad and several friends that were there at the auction to support and look out for me.
I sure appreciate all of you that stopped by my booth with support & encouraging words over the weekend. I had no idea how many people were following this.

The best part of the whole weekend came on Saturday when Charlie Rust (who found my bull) came to my booth with his family. It was our first time to meet in person. What an amazing guy. Charlie has a beautiful family & the cutest daughter you've ever seen. It was so fun to visit with him and thank him in person! I want everyone to know that Charlie is the real hero in all of this. His honesty and sportsmanship is an amazing example for us all. I could not have had this happy ending without him and I'm forever grateful.

Below are some photos taken on that very happy day. Again, I want to sincerely thank all of you that have been so helpful and supportive of me through all of this. What a blessing you all have been to me.

Sincerely,

Steve Chappell
3557e_elk_hunt_012.jpg

Thursday- right after the auction
5827e_elk_hunt_015.jpg

Steve Chappell & Charlie Rust
8634img_0616.jpg


Charlie with his Daughter- Is she cute or what?!!!
 
WOW STEVE, NICE BULL !!!!!.....& CONGRATS ON GETTING IT BACK. GOOD TO KNOW THERE ARE GOOD/HONEST PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE HUNTING COMMUNITY LIKE MR. RUST & YOURSELF !!! ......TAKE CARE.......YD.
 
Thank You Steve it was very nice to meet you. Thank God I was just the messenger but very proud to be a part of the story. What a blessing, please post the pics after your taxidermy guy finishes him up.

Take care Charlie Rust
 
Steve, I'm glad you got your rack. Glad that the sportsmen at the event showed enough class not to try to out bid you on the minumum.

Secondly, YES, that little girl is a doll! Charlie, you appear to have proven yourself as an ethical & great sportsman. Apparently blessed with a lovely family to boot! Karma at work! :)

Finally Steve, I think the comments on this thread show that you have tons of class. You went through the process and took it like a man without complaining, instead letting others vent their frustrations & opinions of your situation without wavering and turning to bashing the G&F (as others did on this thread.....). I agree that it was a sad situation, but I'm not going to judge the G&F officers for enforcing the laws that they are sworn to enforce. Those on here who disagree with this law should get involved (like Don and a FEW others do....) to help lobby, influence, and change these laws that don't make sense IMO.

Kudos to you Steve, and Charlie! Again, karma is alive and well here in the world.... ;-)

S.

:)
 
Stanley, real quick. I don't I know you, or you me, but I am involved A LOT with AZ G&F, as some might attest.

There is the letter of the law and then there is the spirit of the law.

Sometimes, when you are in a position of authority, you have to weigh these things out.

In my opinion, and its just my opinion, I think that the Commission, and not the field officer, made a bad call on this one.

I see a guy who tried to do everything by the book, get kicked in the teeth, and that sends out a bad message to others who may face a similar circumstance somewhere down the road.

That's it in a nutshell, and yes, we'll move on and I'm glad Steve got his bull back.

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-11 AT 11:39PM (MST)[p]I think maybe you misunderstood my point Don. (likely, I could have worded it better....) I know you get involved a lot. I've seen you at Commission meetings & function, whether it be ADA, Antelope, etc.... That's why I called your name out as one of the few who actually DO.... ;) I personally met you at a Boquillas ranch clean-up several years ago, and I was trying to call-out your name as one of the few who get involved.

It's kind of like voting IMO. If you don't vote (or get "invovled" in this case....) then you have no right to complain. YOU are entitled! ;)

S.

:)
 
Oops my apology sir!

I'm sorry I kinda flew off the handle. I guess I did misinterpret your post.

And I do think that this very issue is something that we as sportsmen should take up with the department (among other things) to "fix" the rule on matters like this!

Hey I just heard this on Harry's law and it really hit home to me, especially when thinking about this thread.

Harry said," It is a common perception that justice is fair: It is not. It is also held that justice has compassion: that is what I hold on to!"

Sounds good to me!

Don Martin
AWO
 
Congratulations Steve!! I'm sorry you had to pay for a bull that was legally taken! I am so happy you can put this nightmare to rest! I'll talk to you soon!!

Jed
 
Glad the bull is back in the hands of the hunter.

Also am saddend at the lack of common sense applied to this issue.

The law should simply be that the animal cannot be hunted with intent to kill after legal time on the ending date of the tag. Ethical follow up/tracking can happen after legal time expires but no weapons (except where CCW permits allow) could be carried, and no weapon can be used to 'finish' a tracked animal. Many states have the general issue of revovery of game after legal time (in-season) described similarly to the above, it just should be clarifed/expouned on for the last day of said season.

Seriously, if we take this to the letter of the law and you are on the track of a fataly shot animal and legal time expires on the last day, you are obligated to turn around and go to your truck?! C'mon people....

Even with the law reading as it does, the Commision was not "just" in their application of it.

Bill in MI
 
Man, what a story. Pretty chicken sh!t of the F and G to go that route with you. They oughta be ashamed of themselves...beauracratic bullsh!t if you ask me. I'm so glad it all worked out in the end. That's a great bull. When I draw an AZ bull tag can you guide me for free in leu of all the nice things I've said? LOL!

Steve
Derkha derkha Muhammed jihad hakha sherpha sherpha abakhala- Gary of Team America World Police
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-11 AT 07:16PM (MST)[p]Congratulations on getting your bull back, very cool that you got them for the minnimum bid.
 
Glad the owner of the Bull got it back. Nice that it worked out that way for ya.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Congrats Steve! Glad to hear you finally got your bull back! And don't be hard on yourself about the shot. It happens to everyone and you certainly paid your dues in honesty and effort! Way to stick it out tell the end!

Lance Crowther
 
Steve,

Congratulations, I would be happy to shoulder mount your bull for cost. I have a salted bull cape in stock from a unit 10 380+ bull. If you are intersted please give us a shout.

Tina
Triple T Taxidermy
(928) 727-8072
 
Tina,

Wow, that is a very kind and generous offer! I appreciate it.
One of my guides is also a taxidermist and so we visited and he is going to shoulder mount my bull.
We are in need of a good cape from a mature bull like you have. I don't know if that would be a possibility? If not, I will understand.

If I had not already arranged to have the mount done I would take you up on this in a heartbeat! Thanks again.

Steve Chappell

P.S. Lance, thanks for your post. I wish you the best in the draw this year and good luck with your hunters!
 
Steve cograts on the antlers!
Your honesty goes along way with me. I have 8 elk points going into this years draw and if I happen to get lucky consider my hunt booked with you.
 
Glad you got your rack back, clearly your one of the good guys.

Steve, check your PMs regarding Colorado.

Dan
 
Steve :Congrats on getting your bull back, what a story.I know big bulls are hard to get but this was ridiculous.You might have the makings for a TV movie.I am glad things worked out.Take care Jeff
 
Thanks Jeff!

You are probably right. What a story this has been! Your chance at redemption on a big bull is coming soon.

I also want everyone to know that Tina and Tim at Triple T Taxidermy in Lake Havasu contacted me and gave me that cape for my mount- absolutely no cost! What an unbelievable, and valuable gift. Thanks again guys!

My friend Colton Bagnoli of Bagnoli Wildlife Taxidermy in Mesa is going to shoulder mount my bull. I can't wait to see the end result!

At many times during the past 5 months, prior to getting my bull back, I thought that it just wasn't meant to be and that maybe I never would. Now I feel so blessed because of everyone's encouragement, help and generosity.

Steve Chappell
 
Great to hear that you got it back but really, should this saga even have taken place. Wow, what a lack of sovereignty. What good is the leadership if they don't reserve the right in their position to make executive decisions, even in the face of and inclusive of irrefutable evidence. That's the whole point of presiding. That is why not everyone is capable of leading because it takes a person who can make a judgement notwithstanding the rule as written. As others have said, the spirit of the law was not honored. Usually if the letter of the law is pushed as the "only way" it can be, it shows a lack of understanding of the principle or reason the law was written in the first place. Additionally, their reason that it is to prevent shooting a "keeper" in attempt to hunt one bigger shows their lack of trust and really empowers no one to use their own good judgement. It also says that they are already assuming this is the case and is what people do so even if you prove otherwise you are already assumed guilty.

Sorry for the rant, its just poor PR and management. The more involvement I have with the GFD the less impressed I am.
 
Steve greta to see you found a cape man it sure all did come together congrats. Nice to seel peoples selfless acts.

Charlie
 

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