A call to Islamic Prayer..?..

M

manny15

Guest
What a friggin joke, I was just watching T.V and on the news there were American citizens having to fight the local government of Michigan, to put a stop to Muslims broadcasting their call to prayer over a load speaker 5 time?s a day, starting at 6:00 am, one freak (Muslim) called it discrimination, I would bet the idiot wasn?t an American citizen.

I'm friggin pist!!!, this is the same religion that felt it was a good idea to fly a couple planes into the world trade center and kill 3000 Americans, am I missing something here or is our Nation tumbling down a flight of stairs with no one there to stop it???

America better wake up & quick! Now L.A just voted to remove the three cross?s off their seal, and with the same breath allow a similar Muslim group to broadcast their call to prayer also?it seems there really is no separation of church and state, only separation of Christians & state!?seperation of church and state goes for all religions not just Christians.


Can anybody else see where this is going, for you young fellas on MM.com you better pay attention it's your future and your kids future at risk here!?
 
I know this will set off a **** storm, but Manny...how is that any different than say a Catholic church ringing its bells at the Hours?

It is a few religious ZEALOTS that decided killing people in the name of Islam was something grand to do. IT was a few religious ZEALOTS in my home state that massacred 400 some odd men, women and children merely because they were not of the same religion. There are many many ZEALOTS that consider killing a human being just rewards for abortion, for animal rights, for the color of skin, for the color of clothing, or just plain because. They are all Americans, my friend, all of them.

While I disagree regarding removing monuments such as the 10 Commandments from public view, it is because it is my belief the Commandments are sacred and valid. It is not the belief of many others.

Ask yourself this...must we allow all to practice their religion openly, or hide it in our sacred places, out of sight and out of mind? If so, all must hide or all must be allowed to be seen. That is the fairness of the rights guaranteed under our Constitution and Bill of Rights. These freedoms are why we have such a large influx of illegal immigration, why we are both villified and admired around the world. It is because of these freedoms that I do wonder if we are heading into the toilet...and believe you me, I see the bottom of the bowl every single damn day.

I am certainly not sweeping the memory of 9-11 and the anger that still lingers under the carpet (I actually engraved a memorial when I poured my RV pad). I have many friends in Iraq, Afghanistan and other volatile places abroad. They all wonder why the people they are trying to help hate them. They ask daily how a person can wave at them then run out behind their convoy and plant a bomb. But they still do their duty, not because they hate Islam, but because their country asked them to.

This is a good discussion, Manny, let's keep it going. More people across the country should participate ....it really really can make you THINK about what you really believe, not only about yourself, your religion, but about what it is to be an American.

IMHO,
Pred
 
This can really be a good discussion.
Everybody can certainly bring up valid points but I am gonna have kinda take sides with Manny. As an example, why is it in a country founded on the basis of religious freedom a small group can decide for the majority that prayer in school is not appropriate?
The very currency we use to buy goods and services has "In God We Trust" on it. I'll bet we're not long before that comes under fire from some small "offended" group soon, if it hasn't already.
Predator is correct, it is a few......, but why do they always seem to dictate the terms for the many?
Let the ****storm begin!
 
Pred"

Don't you think that when those Muslims pronounce their call to prayer, stating "Allah ac'bar" (God is Great) three consecutive time's, 5 time's a day, which equals 15 total time?s, over a loud speaker that can be heard for blocks is a little like cramming it down the neiborhoods throat..?..

By the way, the gentlemen they interviewed that said it was discrimination, said he prays that all of America will become a Muslim nation, so they have a plan don't they.....

I don't like to see people who aren't U.S citizens forcing their culture on Americans and using our judicial system (Tax dollars ect?) to do so either, I think they know when it's time to gather to pray.

how long do you think Christians would last before the niebours put a stop to the blasting out of a prayer service here in my town, it would be forcing people to listen??..And God forbid they should mention the name of Jesus??
 
Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion. The same guarantee also means, to me, freedom from religion.

Predator, I liked your post, zealots often hide behind religion.

BeanMan
 
WELL

YOU KNOW I'M NOT AS NICE AS Pred!!!

I THINK THEY OUGHT TO HAVE THAT RIGHT SO LONG AS THEIR BACK IN THEIR MUSLEM HOME TOWN!!!

I SAY THE TIME HAS COME,AMERICAN'S COME HOME AND THE REST OF YOU GO HOME AND DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT TO,THIS IS AMERICA AND WHEN WE START GIVING UP AMERICAN RIGHTS TO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES JUST SO WE WON'T HURT ANY FEELINGS,IT'S A SIGHN OF AMERICA HEADING IN A BAD DIRECTION!!!

SHOULDN'T YOU HAVE TO BE A TRUE AMERICAN TO ENJOY THE AMERICAN PRIVELIDGES???(OOPS!!!)

MAYBE I'M WRONG(NOT PREJUDICE)BUT THERE WOULD BE SOME ONE WAY TICKETS HANDED OUT!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHAT WILL BE NEXT???
 
I agree Manny that hearing it would definitely be annoying, as annoying as if someone did their Hail Mary's over an amplified speaker! It would seem to me that one should have to get a permit for the amplified sound (at least they would here, I dunno when it involves a church, people get wierd).

We have a similar situation here...there is a particular group of Christians that believe it is their sacred duty to yell hateful things and display what are considered sacred objects in front of THE headquarters of a particular faith (of which I am not a member, BTW). Since they stand on public ground and are expressing their First Amendment right to free speech, they are free to keep doing it. Let me tell you what, some of the things they say often make me wish one of the persons targeted beat their butts, because it's just so un-Christian in my mind!

You did not state whether or not the speaker identified himself as a foreign national or a naturalized citizen.

I also think it's crap that illegal aliens can have the same rights as you and I, but guess what? The founding fathers worded those documents with not "U.S. Citizen", but "any person", so unfortunately they have the same rights as you or I.

As for forcing the culture, I believe that it is the conglomerate of cultures in this great country that make it what it is....we have so many differing points of view and beliefs that affect every part of government, friendships and life. I find it refreshing on one hand and really aggravating on the other. It is those mix of cultures that built this country, like it or not.

Why do you think the Iraqi's hate us so badly? Because we are that small minority trying to force our culture, our belief upon an entire nation. Think about that....perhaps a majority of Iraqi's don't want to eat at McDonald's or buy US-made products at a US-built factory, I really don't know, do you? Most of the longest, nastiest wars on this planet involved religion, and some of the most heinous crimes were committed by religion.
 
Good posts pred... religion is the scorge of mankind... ALL RELIGIONS. Christians are farrrr from being any better than the muslims. Chistians have waged more wars in the name of god than any othere faith, and we've been fighting the muslims since the inceptoin of both religions.

Untill the men and women of this world can put religion aside and live a normal life we will always be in this situation. No one religion is better than the other.
 
Don't you think that these terrorists just use the Muslim religion or other religions as something to hide behind, knowing that they can bring others over to their side in the name of that religion? I don't think any religion condemns killing, or does it?
a*r
 
>Don't you think that these terrorists
>just use the Muslim religion
>or other religions as something
>to hide behind, knowing that
>they can bring others over
>to their side in the
>name of that religion?
> I don't think
>any religion condemns killing, or
>does it?
>a*r


Well that's where you're wrong, the Muslim religion is not a peaceful religion, as some believe, it states in their book, when you see an infidel or a pig...(Jew)..I.e.: some one who isn't a Muslim, you are to kill them, it's allot more graphic then I just described but because I can't remember exactly how it state's ect.

Many dambnable things have been done in the name of God, But Jesus Christ himself said and I quote "there will come a time when men will kill you thinking they are doing God a service"...


But this is not about one practicing religion, this is about people forcing another person to have to listen to them broadcasting it over a loud speaker continuously...day after day...that is a tactic that the CIA use's to mess with some one's mind when they want to interrogate them it is also a form of brain wash...?..Think along these line and tell me what you think...you have free will still here today...yes...
 
Predator,

I agree with alot of what you are saying, but why should we ask ourselves "Why do they hate us?". There is no point. Those who hate us do so because we breathe, because we allow our women to speak, because we question leadership, because we allow choice of religion, because we are not them. I, for one , don't care why they hate us. They want us to die. I know this post wasn't about this, but every time I hear an american pose the question of why they hate us, I get frustrated. WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS! There will always be evil and you can't rationalize it if you try.

When we kick god out of this country, we can't complain when we end up like everyone else! Yes I mean the god of our founding fathers.
 
Manny, That is interesting what you were saying about what is in there book, but pretty sad. I'm not into other religions so I wasn't aware of that. Either way, I suppose no matter what we do, or where we go, someone will hate us or want to get rid of our existence just because of who we are...
It really makes you appreciate the freedoms we have and the people who have given their lives to preserve the great lifestyle we enjoy..
a*r

A bad day hunting is better than a Good Day at Work!!
 
What about that noise ordinance the old people get passed because kids party or turn up the volume of their car stereos. Sometimes local government is a damn religion in itself. Call the high priest and his helpers (mayor/councilors.)
-Raptor
 
>What about that noise ordinance the
>old people get passed because
>kids party or turn up
>the volume of their car
>stereos. Sometimes local government
>is a damn religion in
>itself. Call the high
>priest and his helpers (mayor/councilors.)
>
>-Raptor


they're the one's who gave 'em a permitt to broadcast it..LOL...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-09-04 AT 06:25AM (MST)[p]One of the things this country was founded on was freedom of religion. I stand behind that and believe freedom of religion should be granted to all those who seek refuge in our country. That is just one of the many things that make this country so great. Yes I am a Christian and believe Jesus died for our sins and the only way to heaven is through Him. I have no problem with other religions that are 180 degrees out of sinc with mine including Musslims.
BUT, there is always a BUT. I think it should be kept in the closet. In other words, dont try ramming your religion down my throat or through my ears. I will be your friend and we can have get togethers and hunt together and fish together and work together and be tollerant of one another. But as soon as you subject me to your faith with out my consent I have no more use for you. That is just plain wrong. And that goes for any and all religions weather it is Christianity or Budism or Muslim. Just my .02



"We must HUNT"
 
I turned away a couple of young men at my front door the other night trying to sell me on their religion. I don't appreciate it when someone, anyone, Muslim , Christian or whatever trie to cram their beliefs down my throat.

Freedom From Religion,

BeanMan
 
I am so damn sick and tired of being politically correct!
It was Muslims that killed 3000 people on our ground!
Not Jews,not Christians,not Bhuddists,not Branch Dividians.
MUSLIMS!!!!!!!!!
If we need to incovience them for the safety of this nation...
B-F-D!
I'ts just a shame we have to worry about international relations and where we get our oil,or we could really get rough with those greasy bastards that killed our loved ones!
HH
 
I think Pred is right on with her posts. Some of you others are walking a very fine line of being exactly like the ones you are complaining about. Remember racism can go both ways. You can not lump the actions of a few fanactics and paint everyone with the same brush. There may be many that hate you but if you are the "good" that you claim to be, then take the higher ground and choose not to hate. Something about loving those that hate you comes to mind. LOL!
069729.gif
 
Anything over loud speakers 5 times a day seven days a week would be kind of hard to live by, whether it was about religion or not.
 
Lisa' I know you must see allot of crap out there on the streets, hypocrisy and all, but you've seemed to have retained your general care for freedom & equality...
 
Manny, thank you, I like to think I have. A very large misconception about peace officers is that we get into this job for the 'power trip' or to kill people, or just in general be a pain in the ass. Most of us do this job because we really do care for the freedoms in our country and it burns our hide when the sick and twisted prey on the innocent. You cannot do this job without trying very hard to be equal, for it's the equality for all that we fight for every day. I took an oath for this job, one in which I swore to uphold and defend our Constitution. I try to do just that every day; I may not like all those protected and served by the sacred papers on which our nation was founded, but it's those freedoms granted everyone that makes us the envy of the world.

By the way, I found myself very moved by the funeral for Pres. Reagan. I had forgotten what a wonderful man and leader he was; and I came away with the remembrance of his idealogy for our country- that our best days are ahead. What stunning changes occurred during his presidency and since, it really does give one pause to reflect on humanity and our place here.
 
Having lost a niece and a brother in law in less than 30 days, I am a little raw around the edges.
A few weeks ago,I cleanned up my brother in law's blood and guts as a gesture of my love for him.
I am just now able to talk about it.
I KNOW LOSS.
I KNOW GRIEF.
Multiply those loses by 1500 and you start to understand the pain and agony of the 9-11 tragedy/Murders.

I have a brother that is a Deputy Sherrif,a brother that is a Highway patrollman,a sister-in-law that is a Highway patrol,a best freind that is a correctional officer in a prison.
I have a little insight into officers of the law.
When it isn't your own that are bleeding and dying, you are able to disconnect from the pain and agony of reality,therefore you really aren't in touch with the victims,it is a natural defense system.
Pred,I admire your sincerety and you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I.
In my opinion many (north)Americans assume that the rest of the world thinks like we do.
We are dealing with savages from the stone age with no fear or compassion for westerners.
You may want to turn the other cheek, but I don't.
I do however think we need to finish up buisiness in Iraq ASAP and get the hell out!
HH
 
Great stuff!!!. It's refreshing to see adults carry on a civil conversation with out taking it personnally....However, People have used religion for an excuse to kill people for centuries...It's not "religion" that is at fault, it's the abuse of religion and people blaming religious beliefs for their murdering...God does not murder, rape, Hate, bomb, fly airplanes into buildings and does not ask anyone to!!!. God is about forgiveness,love,understanding,peace,. Man has and will basterdize almost anything in the name of religion...It doesn't make it so....It's like Opera blaming the spoon for her weight problems...Religion is beautifull.

I challenge anyone to read the bible and show me where religion tells people to do such hideous things to each other....There where horrible acts done in the bible but not because the bible told these people to do so.

If anyone is interested in reading a great book, It's titled "A PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE" WHAT AM I HERE FOR ANYWAY..??

Read it, It will give you perspective.....
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-13-04 AT 02:10PM (MST)[p]Kingfish

Those who wrote the bible did not have the bible, so your challenge is pointless.
God has killed plenty of people and commanded entire cities to be destroyed by his people, men women children and even animals massacared. If you want refrences, let me know.
(assuming that we are talking about the bible)
 
Those who wrote the bible did so from the teachings of Christ. Cities were destroyed as a consequence of their own actions...Lets do this so everybody can follow that wants to...Just so you don't misquote anything give me chapter and verse that way all anyone has to do is look it up....
 
HH- I have held the hands of many while they died, many of them my own brothers. I remember every single one of them, men, women and little children. I hate every single one of the people responsible for their deaths, including the ones whose flag draped caskets I've saluted upon their return from the ITO. I don't envy you having to pick up the pieces when one you know and love is gone.

I didn't say turn the other cheek, I merely was emphasizing my opinion that castigating an entire religion and its followers here based on the actions of a few abeit highly publicized zealots is calling the kettle black.

I have had the unique opportunity to receive e-mails from two friends serving in Irag. One is in a transportation battalion, the ones driving the convoys that are attacked every day. The other is in an engineering battalion, the ones that are rebuilding Irag every day. Talk about different poles of opinion! It really puts a perspective on the totality of war. One hates every Iraqi, the other is welcomed by most Iraqi's he meets.

And yes, Kingfish, this is quite refreshing. This is the campfire I've missed; where we can still gather as hunters and friends but still stomp our feet a bit and share our own perspectives...without swearing, without yelling, but with the knowing that we really are listening to each other.

Throw another log on, boys, this is one of the most important issues ever mulled on the campfire.
 
I must say that I've had to re-think some of my opinions since this was started...I was mad when I posted this but due to some of the posts I've taken other opinons into consideration, and to look at the whole picture.

Due to the facts that I know about the Muslim religion I don't believe they are a peacful religion in the first place, and the sad part is that most muslims don't know what their own book state's, such as "when you see an unbeliever or an infidel you must kill them"...but Catholics don't know the Bible any better...anyways...

Life must go on and we must learn to tolerate different peoples beliefs, never will I allow any one to force their opinions on me.....
 
kingfish

You seem to be referring exclusively to the new testament. Only the first 4 books of the new testament were an account of christ's life and teachings. the rest was communication between the apostles and the saints. The old testament , on the other hand, covered much more time and is the account of the world from it's creation until shortly before the birth of christ. I believe anyone will agree that the old testament is full of instances of the "wrath of god" being poured out on man. The flood, where all inhabitants of the earth were killed save eight; the destruction of soddom and gommorah, the cities wiped out by the children of israel.(don't have a bible with me for exact refrences) . If you are saying that god does not murder the innocent, than you are right, but don't think that he never killed anybody.
 

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