A problem with judging mule deer on the hoof.

[schoolhousegrizz]

I have always considered myself a good judge of mule deer. However the last two hunting seasons have got me concerned. I am misjudging under and over depending on the deer.
Not the best picture. But what does this buck score? Then I'll show you him up close after we got him and tell you what he scores.

 

[mevertsen]

Not sure about score. But he looks like a mature 6 plus year old deer.

 

[Buckfever34]

Tag for outcome and seeing better pics. I don’t see much there so I’m guessing he snuck up on ya and is much bigger than the pics show. From first glance I am thinking “not a shooter” but I’m afraid I’m gonna be proven wrong. Body is that of a mature deer, it seems.

Much better to walk up to THAT kind of surprise than ground shrinkage. Ain’t nobody got time for shrinkage! Haha

 

[johnnycake]

Pretty sure his height and mass are excellent, but all the more skewed in appearance by a narrow frame. Throw in a large body and head for him being a mature deer I would be surprised if he were smaller than 175".

 

[1989Cohunter]

I’d guess around 160-170. Hard to tell what his tines look like. Regardless I’d shoot.

 

[buckhorn]

Dink!

 

[ridgetops]

I would guess around 160"

 

[Shadow]

He has the body of a horse and I think his tine length is deceptively long, it wouldn’t shock me if he were in the 180’s.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Very interesting to hear all the feedback. I'll give it a couple more hours and then I'll post the score.

 

[JakeSwensen]

155"

 

[JakeH]

Looks to be about 22-23 outside, forks, and beams are better than they appear from head on view. Really tall. I'm getting 170-175 gross.

 

[Homer]

Join the club of swag'ing mule deer scores.....

 

[roadrunner]

I’d guess around 160-170. Hard to tell what his tines look like. Regardless I’d shoot.

My guess is low 160's.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Here's a better one if his whole body. I'll give it about another hour.

 

[Buckfever34]

I like that pic a lot better. He’s now moved to “shooter!” status with me. I’ll guess 174.

 

[hunt30]

172

 

[JPickett]

That’s honestly a tuff one. I get stuck on bucks in the field when they’re super narrow like that. I watched a 4x3 for like 5 hours last weekend trying to make him grow but just couldn’t get there with him because he was so narrow.be interesting to see how this turned out

 

[notdonhunting]

I like the how tall he is and decent forks from
I would shoot

 

[Sparks Shooter]

I'm a horrible judge but I just don't see that buck getting much past 160". We all know that pictures are a terrible way of judging the size of deer and fish and I'm sure that we will all be shocked when the numbers come out. That being said, all of my best scoring bucks are 24"-26" wide.---SS

 

[NPHunter]

160”ish 16-18” inside spread. 21” beams. Average mass.

 

[oilcan]

Hard to tell with the pictures blurry I’d say mid to low 160’s.

 

[Ridn9high]

I’ll say 170

 

[BradA]

I was thinking in the 160 range

 

[trophyhunter68]

I was going with low 160s but your last pic (blurry) pic made me second guess that. Maybe low 170s

 

[twopointdn]

I’m going to guess 152”. Nice buck in my book.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

I judged him at 140. I almost told my 17 year old nephew he might not want to shoot him.

Well here goes, I can't take it any more. Really good beams at 23 inches. Insight spread was just over 19. He's only 22 .5 wide. Really good Mass with an extra. His bases were 5 in and 5 and 2/8 in. Pretty good g3s I think one was about 11 and one was about nine. The one eye guard was almost 4 in. I scored him twice. One time at 170 and 4/8 and the other time at 169. I'm calling him 170. I misjudged him by 30 inches!!!!!!

@Buckfever34 @JakeH @Shadow @johnnycake @mevertsen
I'm here to learn. Tell me why you said his tine length is deceivingly long. Tell me what you're looking at to say his body is like a horse, tell me what you're looking at to say he's a 6-year-old plus mature mule deer.

Would you guys say he is a deceiving deer? The first time I got a good look at him was that 3rd pic down. I think that image stuck in my mind. I am wondering how often I have missed judged some good deer. I am kind of like @JPickett, it is hard for me to get over that narrowness, and I'm not big on width I know they can score good and be narrow. Here is a couple pics, I will attach them in the next slide.

 

[1989Cohunter]

Sweet post I’ve been checkin in often!

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

 

[1989Cohunter]

He’s a pig of a buck.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

 

[HntHrdr]

Great post, the narrowness gets me as well, but he is really tall, hopefully I’ll be looking over some bucks next weekend and can turn up a nice one!

 

[AZGuy]

Cool post, don’t beat yourself up over it. congratulations to the hunter!

 

[mevertsen]

@mevertsen
,... tell me what you're looking at to say he's a 6-year-old plus mature mule deer.

Would you guys say he is a deceiving deer? The first time I got a good look at him was that 3rd pic down. I think that image stuck in my mind. I am wondering how often I have missed judged some good deer. I am kind of like @JPickett, it is hard for me to get over that narrowness, and I'm not big on width I know they can score good and be narrow. Here is a couple pics, I will attach them in the next slslide.

He just has a "big" look to him. Swayed back, brisket sticking out, even a bit of an "attitude" look to him. Much like looks people get as they age really. I could be off by some, but certainly a very nice buck and one you would not see me passing up.

 

[hogg_65]

Great Buck for your nephew

 

[JakeH]

I judged him at 140. I almost told my 17 year old nephew he might not want to shoot him.

Well here goes, I can't take it any more. Really good beams at 23 inches. Insight spread was just over 19. He's only 22 .5 wide. Really good Mass with an extra. His bases were 5 in and 5 and 2/8 in. Pretty good g3s I think one was about 11 and one was about nine. The one eye guard was almost 4 in. I scored him twice. One time at 170 and 4/8 and the other time at 169. I'm calling him 170. I misjudged him by 30 inches!!!!!!

@Buckfever34 @JakeH @Shadow @johnnycake @mevertsen
I'm here to learn. Tell me why you said his tine length is deceivingly long. Tell me what you're looking at to say his body is like a horse, tell me what you're looking at to say he's a 6-year-old plus mature mule deer.

Would you guys say he is a deceiving deer? The first time I got a good look at him was that 3rd pic down. I think that image stuck in my mind. I am wondering how often I have missed judged some good deer. I am kind of like @JPickett, it is hard for me to get over that narrowness, and I'm not big on width I know they can score good and be narrow. Here is a couple pics, I will attach them in the next slide.

Honestly it's hard for me to explain how I get my numbers, I don't think it's like others.

It might sound odd, but I can visualize my hand from thumb to birdie finger along every point, I've actually loosely scored lots of antlers this way physically so to visualizeit isntmuch of a stretch, I know that when stretched my hand length is 9"s. So I can get rough estimates that way by visualizing my hand along the points, anything longer then my hand I roughly guess each inch past that.

I don't think this is how most people do it, but It works for me lol.

The buck in this post I had at 23" beams, and roughly 9 inch forks, (I didn't break out each point), and 16" g2s. I did 1" brows but I couldn't tell if he had them or not in the pictures. For mass I usually just give a standard 15-19 depending on how heavy the buck looks, i gave that buck 19. And a 19" spread credit. ( so 23+1+16+9+9+19=77. 77x2=154+19=173) I came up with 173 with those numbers, obviously I wasn't dead on with everything, but give a little here, and take a little there the end result is usually pretty close.

With better pictures I will break out each measurement and tine the same way, but for just a generalization like in this post that is what I do.

I've also found that I have more trouble with much larger deer, I've seen so many deer in that 160-190 range that I'm pretty good at those, but when you step it up to those really big 200+ deer my calculations can be off and I'm usually low.

 

[257Tony]

Maybe it's not your judging skills that's the problem, I'm thinking it's your photo taking skills ?.

 

[Uttaxi1]

My kind of buck. Congrats

 

[johnnycake]

Honestly it's hard for me to explain how I get my numbers, I don't think it's like others.

It might sound odd, but I can visualize my hand from thumb to birdie finger along every point, I've actually loosely scored lots of antlers this way physically so to visualizeit isntmuch of a stretch, I know that when stretched my hand length is 9"s. So I can get rough estimates that way by visualizing my hand along the points, anything longer then my hand I roughly guess each inch past that.

I don't think this is how most people do it, but It works for me lol.

The buck in this post I had at 23" beams, and roughly 9 inch forks, (I didn't break out each point), and 16" g2s. I did 1" brows but I couldn't tell if he had them or not in the pictures. For mass I usually just give a standard 15-19 depending on how heavy the buck looks, i gave that buck 19. And a 19" spread credit. ( so 23+1+16+9+9+19=77. 77x2=154+19=173) I came up with 173 with those numbers, obviously I wasn't dead on with everything, but give a little here, and take a little there the end result is usually pretty close.

With better pictures I will break out each measurement and tine the same way, but for just a generalization like in this post that is what I do.

I've also found that I have more trouble with much larger deer, I've seen so many deer in that 160-190 range that I'm pretty good at those, but when you step it up to those really big 200+ deer my calculations can be off and I'm usually low.

That was/is pretty close to my approach. But I use the width of my hand at 4" and go from there.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

That was/is pretty close to my approach. But I use the width of my hand at 4" and go from there.

I do similar things but he just looked so small to me.

 

[johnnycake]

I do similar things but he just looked so small to me.

Compare the distance from his bases to his first forking to that of a buck with a more normal frame layout and it's quickly apparent that he has very good beams. That then gives a reference point for how tall he really is and after that it's just math

 

[Mallardsx2]

I’m glad I don’t think about a score when I shoot a deer. Lol there’s enough things in the world to stress me out.

 

[Buckfever34]

As I stated that last pic you posted did it for me.

Swayed back, sunk forehead, thick brisket, roman nose, pot belly—click, BANG!

I’ve never had a deer officially scored and the few times when I’ve tried doing it myself I’ve probably messed it up. I will say that wide deer are great to look at but you don’t gain many inches in width. It’s height, length, extras, hidden mass, respectable brows that create good gross scoring bucks, IMO. Having said that, I love airplane wide ones, skyscraper tall and narrow ones, and everything in between.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Compare the distance from his bases to his first forking to that of a buck with a more normal frame layout and it's quickly apparent that he has very good beams. That then gives a reference point for how tall he really is and after that it's just math

Love that advice, I was thinking about that. Good to hear someone confirm!

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

As I stated that last pic you posted did it for me.

Swayed back, sunk forehead, thick brisket, roman nose, pot belly—click, BANG!

I’ve never had a deer officially scored and the few times when I’ve tried doing it myself I’ve probably messed it up. I will say that wide deer are great to look at but you don’t gain many inches in width. It’s height, length, extras, hidden mass, respectable brows that create good gross scoring bucks, IMO. Having said that, I love airplane wide ones, skyscraper tall and narrow ones, and everything in between.

I always hear the term roman nose. Not sure what that even means, just a wide long nose? Also, thanks for the advice on the sunken forehead. Once I see the antlers up close I can usually get within 5 or 6 inches. I have been pretty good at judging but this last couple years I have been off. Thanks again!

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Also I seem to notice on these big mature bucks their body appears extremely long. Would you guys say that's a feature of a mature buck?

It almost looks like their head is too small for their body.

 

[johnnycake]

Also I seem to notice on these big mature bucks their body appears extremely long. Would you guys say that's a feature of a mature buck?

It almost looks like their head is too small for their body.

Yes. A mature buck, bull, bear, etc. will have a lot of real estate between his rump and shoulders compared to others that aren't as old

 

[bighamr]

I’m with ya, had him at 150 with the pics. That’s a tough one with a build like that. Cool buck

 

[Buckfever34]

This is a pic I found that I shared with a new whitetail hunter that I’ve helped get into hunting. Same applies to mulies.

 

[ridgetops]

I've noticed that most live photos of deer make the buck look a little smaller than what they really are. I usually will add 10-15" onto a score for that reason but I didn't do that this time when making my guess. To me the live pictures look like a 160" class buck but the dead pictures definitely look more like a 170" class.

 

[pauns08]

Honestly it's hard for me to explain how I get my numbers, I don't think it's like others.

It might sound odd, but I can visualize my hand from thumb to birdie finger along every point, I've actually loosely scored lots of antlers this way physically so to visualizeit isntmuch of a stretch, I know that when stretched my hand length is 9"s. So I can get rough estimates that way by visualizing my hand along the points, anything longer then my hand I roughly guess each inch past that.

I don't think this is how most people do it, but It works for me lol.

The buck in this post I had at 23" beams, and roughly 9 inch forks, (I didn't break out each point), and 16" g2s. I did 1" brows but I couldn't tell if he had them or not in the pictures. For mass I usually just give a standard 15-19 depending on how heavy the buck looks, i gave that buck 19. And a 19" spread credit. ( so 23+1+16+9+9+19=77. 77x2=154+19=173) I came up with 173 with those numbers, obviously I wasn't dead on with everything, but give a little here, and take a little there the end result is usually pretty close.

With better pictures I will break out each measurement and tine the same way, but for just a generalization like in this post that is what I do.

I've also found that I have more trouble with much larger deer, I've seen so many deer in that 160-190 range that I'm pretty good at those, but when you step it up to those really big 200+ deer my calculations can be off and I'm usually low.

Holy crap I thought I was the only one who did this except i go from thumb to tip of pinky which is 9"

 

[gundog2]

You can see the saggy belly in the last photo, which would have triggered my full attention .

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

You can see the saggy belly in the last photo, which would have triggered my full attention .

Great, thanks for that. I think I'm pretty good at judging antlers, my problem might have been knowing when it's a mature deer or not. That makes a huge difference. I will definitely be paying closer attention to the body of the deer.

 

[2lumpy]

Super looking buck. For me, that buck is a great example of what happens to mule deer bucks when they reach maturity. Such a pity we are not able to allow more of them to display their potential.

 

[ridgetops]

It

Super looking buck. For me, that buck is a great example of what happens to mule deer bucks when they reach maturity. Such a pity we are not able to allow more of them to display their potential.

It's a pitty that a lot of the bigger bucks are outsmarting most hunters. A person needs to think outside the box in many cases to find those mature bucks now days. Doing the same old, same old doesn't cut it now days. The bucks are getting smarter on how to avoid hunters to stay alive.

 

[2lumpy]

It
It's a pitty that a lot of the bigger bucks are outsmarting most hunters. A person needs to think outside the box in many cases to find those mature bucks now days. Doing the same old, same old doesn't cut it now days. The bucks are getting smarter on how to avoid hunters to stay alive.

Maybe they are using AI………. evolution be damned.

 

[american_jackal]

Very nice buck. I did the same this year. I harvested a deer I judged at around 170" but he had a huge body, and ridiculously large ears. He ended up 184". Not as big of a swing, as yours, but I was surprised.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Very nice buck. I did the same this year. I harvested a deer I judged at around 170" but he had a huge body, and ridiculously large ears. He ended up 184". Not as big of a swing, as yours, but I was surprised.

Colorado? Last year I judged mine at 175 and he was 187. I'm not complaining about that one

 

[lif]

It definitely helps judging antlers when you can determine body size.

 

[Chump]

Congrats to begin, beautiful buck!

I could never attempt to guess this as I grew up hunting nothing within that universe as far as the rack...we did learn body and he looks old.

Looked at all the replies and may have missed it...what did you range him(distance) before taking the pictures?

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Ridge!

You Might Be Good!

But You're Not That Good!

The Outfitters Can Add Alot More Than What You're Boasting With Just Their Pics!

I've noticed that most live photos of deer make the buck look a little smaller than what they really are. I usually will add 10-15" onto a score for that reason but I didn't do that this time when making my guess. To me the live pictures look like a 160" class buck but the dead pictures definitely look more like a 170" class.

 

[ridgetops]

Hey Ridge!

You Might Be Good!

But You're Not That Good!

The Outfitters Can Add Alot More Than What You're Boasting With Just Their Pics!

Have been drinking again?

 

[lif]

Have been drinking again?

I agree with you. Especially phone scope pics. Some big bucks can be very deceiving in those pics.

 

[Bullzer]

For me, the pictures don't show the eyeguards or the cheater. Those and the extra mass is enough to up the score from my initial gut take.

 

[overkill]

168-176

 

[Joe2Kool]

I can't judge either, but his live pics make the rack seem disproportionately tall compared to the width. The dead pics make him seem more proportional.

That big swaying belly is a giveaway. Big enough! SHOOT!

Congrats to the young man.