A question for Garth Carter

[ramshorn]

Garth, what's your position on this Arizona fiasco. I mean, aren't you a part of the story with your message of APPLY, APPLY, APPLY!!!

I've got to tell you, it causes me to do a slow boil whenever I read articles such as your latest in Sports Afield that claim that the "common man" can achieve a slam... all he has to do is draw a desert bighorn permit in one of our western states... such as Utah. Yea, right! If you're a resident of Utah, maybe, but elsewhere... forget it. And the boil picks up when I read about all the new "slammers" coming out of Utah.

Most all of the bighorns in Utah are found on federal land. Now tell me again... how is it justified, and in the best interests of these bighorn herds, that 90%+ of the permits to hunt these sheep, on federal land, is reserved for Utah residents? Utah needs to adopt a less discriminatory permitting process.

All hunters need to hang together. But for that to be more than just a hollow slogan, there must be a more equitable means of sharing the bounty on our federal lands. 90%+ is not equitable.

I would greatly appreciate knowing your position on the above issues. BTW, I have been a subscriber to your newsletter from the beginning and enjoy your work.

 

[NUNYA]

Does any other state give more than 10% of there sheep tags to NR? Garth put in his time to draw his Ut. & Az. sheep tags.
I'm a Ut. res. still waiting for mine.........

 

[txrightwinger]

No cap on NM sheep tags if I recall correctly.

 

[dwalton]

Wyoming gives 25% of the moose and sheep quotas to non-residents (Thank you, WYO!!). If you look at the draw odds, non-residents enjoy better odds than the residents. Then again, the prices of the non-resident tags are very steep!

 

[TheHunt]

Humor on!!!

Here is a great solution to all of this crap. Open all hunting to over the counter. Slotter most of the animals and make them endagered species no one hunts any more we just take pictures.

Humor off!!!

USO does have some aspects of our native americans in Washington State...

 

[MrBaitnFish]

What's that? USO offers tags for native americans in Washington State?

 

[NVBighorn]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-03-04 AT 02:41PM (MST)[p]Ramshorn,

I'm curious why you are upset about "all the new slammers" coming out of Utah. You have a slam + don't you? Or am I thinking of someone else? I know several people who, as NONRESIDENTS, have completed their slams with a desert rams from Nevada in the last few years by playing the "apply and pray" game. I can think of more NRs that have done it lately than residents.

 

[ramshorn]

RE: Look at Utah's Numbers

NVBighorn,

It's pretty simple. In distributing its sheep permits, Utah has discrimated severly against non-residents. For example, over the past three years, the average distribution of bighorn sheep permits has broken approximately 93% resident/7% non-resident. In my book, that's not a fair distribution, and its hard to imagine anyone thinking its fair unless they are on the 93% end of the equation (or enjoy a comparable break in another state).

Looked at another way, over the two year period 2002-2003, the odds of a Utah resident being drawn for a desert bighorn tag was approximately 55 to 1. While that's not great, for a non-resident the odds were approximately 875 to 1. How can this be fair? These are the kind of disparities that got New Mexico into trouble in the past, and are involved, I believe, in Arizona's current situation (I know, I know... Arizona's case is strictly over a technicality regarding commerce in hides and horns... right).

And yes, I'm aware of the great contributions of Utah FNAWS and other local Utah groups to the restoration of bighorns in Utah. I have contributed annually to Utah FNAWS and know personally several of the leaders of that group. I applaud their success. And I believe now, as always, that Utah residents should have a preference in the drawing of permits in their home state (so don't anyone... I'm not saying you, NVBighorn... start claiming that I want "all the permits"). But it's still my view, all things considered, that 93% to 7% is not an appropriate middle ground.

After starting this thread, I had actually hoped it would fade quietly away. Garth seems to be a good guy, and he can't like having his name brought into the middle of this issue. But of all those making money off the western states application process, Garth with his newsletter has to be near the top. It does seem unreasonable that he should not be heard from on these matters, given that he expends a lot of energy each year encouraging non-residents to apply for these scarce permits.

It seems to me that all of the above makes sense, unless one is of the view (as many on this board apparently are) that the western states are under no obligation to provide permit opportunities to non-residents, and do so only at their pleasure. Well that may be, but the practice of any of us hunting animals on federal land anywhere is at the pleasure of the people of the United States of America. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has a constitutional right to hunt animals on federal land. And considering the political nature of these matters, it just seems to be extremely poor politics to drive away and antagonize a large segment of the hunting community that might one day contribute to the preservation of our privilege to hunt on federal lands in the west, or anywhere else in the USA.

And regarding whether I have a slam or not, as I've already said on that other board of contention, I'm pretty much done with my hunting. Believe it or not, I'm also concerned with future opportunities for my kids, grandchildren, nieces and nephews and other young hunters, who may, someday, hope to share in a western hunting experience. It is my belief that the opportunity to hunt on federal lands, where open, should be reasonably available, on a equitable basis, to all of the citizens of our country, not just a few.

NVBighorn... I am interested in knowing what you believe is a fair distribution of Utah's sheep permits, and would appreciate your thoughts.

ramshorn

 

[Someburro]

RE: Look at Utah's Numbers

Well, since Utah and Colorado are not in the 9th circuit, AZ's recent case does not effect them until someone takes them to court on it. I suggest they take this opportunity to get their case together and build up a defense fund.

Nevada and Idaho are going to be bent over by the "Griz" though.