A3 charges

Doesn’t surprise me. My son was on an audad free range public land archery hunt near Demming New Mexico. Their guides/hunter purposely spooked a herd he was set up on. I was in position to see and hear the communications between the spotters and guides. It’s my only run in with them, but not my only experience with over zealous “guides” interfering with public land DIY hunters. Unfortunately it’s becoming pretty common. BacDoc🤠
 
This didn’t age well 😂
9898CAA5-9DC8-441D-AA3C-74D814911D9E.jpeg
 
Kiabab early hunt had its issues also. One night we went into town for fuel. We met a guide who said he had 2 clients. He also said he had 5 trucks driving around all night spot lighting for bucks. Anyone care to guess how many outfitters were on the unit doing that? The burn was an absolute joke with spotters and wannabe instagram famers on every point.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Kiabab early hunt had its issues also. One night we went into town for fuel. We met a guide who said he had 2 clients. He also said he had 5 trucks driving around all night spot lighting for bucks. Anyone care to guess how many outfitters were on the unit doing that? The burn was an absolute joke with spotters and wannabe instagram famers on every point.
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Again, as I’ve said before… This is exactly what is wrong with modern day hunting anymore…
What a sh!t show!
 
The unfortunate part is as populations rise and tags get harder to get they will also get more valuable to fill. Areas like the Kaibab right now are suffering from the marketing of big deer which will only amplify the issue .

I for one have started helping on more hunts due to the fact of not being able to draw tags. Unfortunately I don’t see the pressure and number of people going away anytime soon.
 
Bluehair said:
I don’t believe it is a) during a season, and b) while possessing a weapon. I sure hope I’m not wrong.

The last time I was at the Kiabab a couple of years ago it was unbelievable to the point of being comical. The Jacob Lake 500. :oops:
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Pretty sad isn’t it… I remember archery hunting there in the late 80’s to early 90’s… Boy how things have changed…
 
Yes it is legal to spotlight during season in AZ without a firearm. That does not make it right. The bucks are being pressured day and night.
Had way more fun on my daughter’s 4th season Colorado hunt than my friend’s early Kiabab hunt. Was hoping the last few years to burn my AZ points on the archery Kiabab hunt, but now I want to find another unit.
 
Yup legal in AZ without firearm in vehicle. This is why they stash the guns, spotlight all night, find big buck, go get guns or radio helper to bring guns when it gets light. Many big AZ bucks have met their demise via this method. Been going on a long time but with trail cameras gone the "hunters" move to the next best or maybe even better "legal" method. People tried to stop this nonsense at least during the hunting season, but more than one G&F commissioner enjoyed taking their "family" out to look at critters at night.
 
I saw quite a bit of spot lighters. Even on the highway from Jacob lake to the park. There were side by sides with lights shinning every direction. That is why I chose to not hunt the burn. There were some monsters killed in the burn this year. We saw the same rigs on the same roads for several mornings before the season glassing the same spots. I was sure they were watching certain bucks. I did not feel I could compete with that, nor did I want to. I chose to hunt the less crowded areas and with patience I was able to kill a great buck. The guides did not ruin my hunt and I would love to have that tag again
 
I witnessed the spotlighting in the burns on the kiabab a couple years ago...I was given a heads up before the the hunt so was expecting a few. It was so UNBELIEVABLE I went out in the middle of the night a few times just to watch from a high point. I don't know how many were guides, but I did talk to one that was assisting a guide, his take on it was simple...5 trucks in the burn spotlighting, when a shooter is found they shut down the truck/lights and radio to have the client brought in to shoot when it breaks daylight.
Who says hunting is tough?? 🤦
 
pauns08 said:
And they think scopes on muzzleloaders is the problem SMH. Hell ban every outfitter in the western states and that'll take care of 90% of the problems we have.
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This right here - who do you think caused all the problems with trail cams? It certainly wasn't the Average Joe with 2-3 cameras. It was all the damn outfitters and guides with 100 cams in every top tier unit.

The spotlighting is also ridiculous and many other shady tactics that guides and outfitters use to kill at any cost. Money and "inches" is killing hunting.
 
elkhunterUT said:
This right here - who do you think caused all the problems with trail cams? It certainly wasn't the Average Joe with 2-3 cameras. It was all the damn outfitters and guides with 100 cams in every top tier unit.

The spotlighting is also ridiculous and many other shady tactics that guides and outfitters use to kill at any cost. Money and "inches" is killing hunting.
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The problem is they cater to these outfitters because of the money they bring in, remember it's not about wildlife conservation it's about money and the money they bring in isn't going to conservation.
 
pauns08 said:
The problem is they cater to these outfitters because of the money they bring in, remember it's not about wildlife conservation it's about money and the money they bring in isn't going to conservation.
Click to expand...


Do they really?

The tags bring in a bunch of money.

The guides just profit
 
pauns08 said:
The problem is they cater to these outfitters because of the money they bring in, remember it's not about wildlife conservation it's about money and the money they bring in isn't going to conservation.
Click to expand...
Care to elaborate how conservation tag dollars don't go to conservation?

I don't want to read about theories and hypothesis either, show me facts.

And when you're done, I'll destroy your arguments with data, audit reports and other accredited information.

My popcorn is ready 🍿
 
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slamdunk said:
Care to elaborate how conservation tag dollars don't go to conservation?

I don't want to read about theories and hypothesis either, show me facts.

And when you're done, I'll destroy your arguments with data, audit reports and other accredited information.

My popcorn is ready 🍿
Click to expand...
I don't want an argument I truly want you to enlighten me I don't know how to text without sounding sarcastic but I'm truly serious. I understand that the conservation tag dollars go to conservation. (Wish i had the money to buy those tags). But I would love to know your opinion on what the outfitters bring to the table? They have to be bringing money somehow or at least buying certain agency's off or something? Hell how many times does WLH have to get caught breaking laws before they ban him from guiding? Why are they so soft on these big name outfitters? I honestly believe you get rid of all outfitters it solves 90% of our problems that we're dealing with today in hunting.
 
They bring zero to the resource. In fact they are a negative on it. You can't have 90-100% success rates killing animals. Look at the units getting shot out both deer and elk. They reap a profit, create non stop issues. The tags sell themselves.

Let them compete for VERY limited areas. In fact, let's auction off those areas, and give the proceeds to habitat.
 
hossblur said:
They bring zero to the resource. In fact they are a negative on it. You can't have 90-100% success rates killing animals. Look at the units getting shot out both deer and elk. They reap a profit, create non stop issues. The tags sell themselves.

Let them compete for VERY limited areas. In fact, let's auction off those areas, and give the proceeds to habitat.
Click to expand...
I like that idea, all I can figure is half the guys that buy these tags which I'm grateful they do but them but I don't think they could kill a trophy animal without a guide taking them to one.
 
mc68 said:
AZG&F dept has filed charges against A3 in Az for using helicopter during late bull hunts. Seems like a lot of outfitters are having a hard time staying within the limits of the law…
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When you’ve exploited and depleted the resources to the point that it is currently, you have to get creative to keep those numbers up.
 
pauns08 said:
I don't want an argument I truly want you to enlighten me I don't know how to text without sounding sarcastic but I'm truly serious. I understand that the conservation tag dollars go to conservation. (Wish i had the money to buy those tags). But I would love to know your opinion on what the outfitters bring to the table? They have to be bringing money somehow or at least buying certain agency's off or something? Hell how many times does WLH have to get caught breaking laws before they ban him from guiding? Why are they so soft on these big name outfitters? I honestly believe you get rid of all outfitters it solves 90% of our problems that we're dealing with today in hunting.
Click to expand...
What the outfitter brings to the table is simple. Outfitters are the PIMP that brings the JOHN/HUNTER WITH THE MONEY to the PROSTITUTE (which would be the state) so she can get paid. The JOHN then pays the pimp for his hand holding services throughout the adventure who then posts photos for advertisement and bragging rights to hopefully win the "Pimp of the year" award.

As long as the prostitute gets paid the pimp and john can break all the rules they want.
IN THEY END THEY ARE ALL A BUNCH OF: RHYMES WITH DOORS :eek:
 
hossblur said:
They bring zero to the resource. In fact they are a negative on it. You can't have 90-100% success rates killing animals. Look at the units getting shot out both deer and elk. They reap a profit, create non stop issues. The tags sell themselves.

Let them compete for VERY limited areas. In fact, let's auction off those areas, and give the proceeds to habitat.
Click to expand...
I like your ideas…
 
About 25 years Ago!

I Knew There Was Something Going On,On SJ!

Lights Kept Hitting The Trailer!

I Get Up & Sure Enough,Spot-lighters!

The Next Night I Stayed Up Till 3 AM!

13 Spot-lighters Came By That Night!

Locating A Big Buck Or Bull Is A Big Advantage!

I'm Sure Since The Trail-Cam Season Rolled Around The Spot-Lighters Have Quadrupled!

Hey Hossy?

You Want The Day Shift Or The Night Shift?
 
I'm all in on shutting down the corporate dudes.

We keep chilling on the edges. They not only haven't caught the hint, look how many have cases on them. They are more blatant
 
hossblur said:
They bring zero to the resource. In fact they are a negative on it. You can't have 90-100% success rates killing animals. Look at the units getting shot out both deer and elk. They reap a profit, create non stop issues. The tags sell themselves.

Let them compete for VERY limited areas. In fact, let's auction off those areas, and give the proceeds to habitat.
Click to expand...
Neat idea.....I'd like to ponder this deeper.
 
I'm still stuck on this spotlighting thing. THAT is an easy law/rule to make- and it shouldn't be controversial at all.

I know- all these laws are hard to enforce. But people spotlighting is pretty obvious...

And scopes/monos that allow for night vision during any big game hunting season should also be illegal, if not already.

If you take away all the "easy-button" methods for locating game, and limit it to good old-fashioned scouting, the guide game becomes more reasonable.
 
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HikeHunt61 said:
I'm still stuck on this spotlighting thing. THAT is an easy law/rule to make- and it shouldn't be controversial at all.

I know- all these laws are hard to enforce. But people spotlighting is pretty obvious...

And scopes/monos that allow for night vision during any big game hunting season should also be illegal, if not already.

If you take away all the "easy-button" methods for locating game, and limit it to good old-fashioned scouting, the guide game becomes more reasonable.
Click to expand...
Totally agree!
@slamdunk - was spotlighting discussed with the Technology Committee? Seems like a no-brainer that should be banned immediately.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Totally agree!
@slamdunk - was spotlighting discussed with the Technology Committee? Seems like a no-brainer that should be banned immediately.
Click to expand...
Yeah let's put the hunt back in hunting as they say, no freaking spotlights at night lol seems crazy is hasn't been addressed up to this point but I can't leave a trail camera up during the hunting season. The last few years have felt like I'm taking CRAZY PILLS
 
slamdunk said:
It wasn't, and I'm not sure that is within our topic range, but I will dig into it.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing that will have to be a legislative change, not a wildlife board change. If I don't have a hunting tag, how will the wildlife board get to tell me anything? (Just like trail cams...it took the legislature banning them entirely because the wildlife board could only do it for hunting purposes.)
 
Vanilla said:
I'm guessing that will have to be a legislative change, not a wildlife board change. If I don't have a hunting tag, how will the wildlife board get to tell me anything? (Just like trail cams...it took the legislature banning them entirely because the wildlife board could only do it for hunting purposes.)
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Make sense. Casey Snider should be able to help with that.

Hope he is reading this - Spotlighting should have been banned along with infrared technologies and other devices, especially if we are really trying to put the "hunt" back into hunting as they say!
 
What about A3 using helicopters to find bulls? If they are found guilty guys on here will still recommend em and use em. Only way things change is if folks quit using the unapologetic cheaters. Follow the money. Chit, guys on here still watch the NFL, even after they chit on our flag and anthem. Nobody got any heart in this country no more.
 
Hossblur said:

Let them compete for VERY limited areas. In fact, let's auction off those areas, and give the proceeds to habitat.

That’s a great idea let’s auction off the Paunsaugunt, San Juan, Henries, Books ect. Only one outfitter per area and start the bidding at $100,000. Should raise a lot of money.
 
This was one of my thoughts on curtailing outfitting shenanigans.

There are a ton of outdoor activities on public lands that are limited how many outfitters can work commercially on. There are only so many permits given on certain rivers for guided fishing trips, as an example. And once you obtain one, it becomes VERY beneficial to keep it.

Let’s start doing this on our limited entry units. We can do a draw for permits each year. Outfitters must pay to enter the draw, and this will NOT be cheap! Put clear regulations in place for what they are allowed to do and not allowed to do.

If your outfit is caught doing anything illegal, you lose the permit to guide on that unit. That is punishment #1. It’s mandatory revocation of outfitting permit for unit X. And once you lose it, it’s gone. This isn’t the DOPL license that is easy to get around, this is a permit to allow you to guide on a specific unit. You think if your outfit wasn’t going to be able to get the permit for the Pauns next year if you did any shady stuff that your crew would be doing shady stuff? Once that permit is gone, you can’t just change ownership to your son, brother, wife, etc. The permit is gone. It goes back to the draw and you’re out.

I like this idea personally. I’m speaking for Utah here since this would have to be done state by state, but I promise an outfitter in Arizona will think more than twice about illegally flying a unit even to find the biggest elk in the state that year if their permit to guide on that unit was in danger of being stripped.
 
Why would wanting people exploiting public resources already for private gain to follow the law mean I don’t spend enough time outdoors?

This I gotta hear!
 
Vanilla said:
Why would wanting people exploiting public resources already for private gain to follow the law mean I don’t spend enough time outdoors?

This I gotta hear!
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Really? You have a group of guys bitching about one user group? It’s obvious if one would just spent some more time outdoors they wouldn’t let something so little bother them. Outfitter user group likely has less fines & convictions vs resident randy diy. Hell look at mossback in Utah. Biggest in the state. How many convictions?

You guys just spent a little bit more time outdoors maybe you’ll see clearly that there’s bad users in all groups. At least outfitters pay license fees where the YouTube/instagrammers pay nothing.

Some wolves I saw yesterday. We were both hunting the same moose. I don’t hate them for that. Get outside. Stop your crying :

IMG_0085.jpeg
IMG_0086.jpeg


Hope those A3 clowns get the book thrown at them. But I’m not asking for any restrictions based off these clowns.

Carry on. I’m getting my gear ready for a Sunday traverse.
 
"conviction"

Yeah, cuz tiny rural DA vs hundred millionaires.

The actual problem is so many of us are outside, we are seeing this ****.

You don't hate the wolf, because the wolf ain't flying in choppers, lighting fires under bears, baiting, using cams, FLIR, or spot lighting all night.
 
slamdunk said:
Care to elaborate how conservation tag dollars don't go to conservation?

I don't want to read about theories and hypothesis either, show me facts.

And when you're done, I'll destroy your arguments with data, audit reports and other accredited information.

My popcorn is ready 🍿
Click to expand...
Sorry slam but the money these tags bring in for conservation is the problem. That’s why all the spotlighting,trail cameras and all the guides cronies out and about all year looking for the high money rollers. If everybody had to draw like us low life’s that would mostly go away. Would you agree.
 
Horsecorn said:
Sorry slam but the money these tags bring in for conservation is the problem. That’s why all the spotlighting,trail cameras and all the guides cronies out and about all year looking for the high money rollers. If everybody had to draw like us low life’s that would mostly go away. Would you agree.
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No.

If there was only one option, hunt it yourself, it would go away. The tag, or the value of it, is what it is.

The **** that surrounds it, is the issue.

Outfitting has become totally unregulated. DOPL is useless. DWR management is bought off(bear hunt).

You'd think after FLIR, bait, trail cams, the industry would limit themselves. Instead, they just find another avenue.

It's out of control, we all know it.

And frankly, it's something the majority of us agree on
 
Horsecorn said:
Sorry slam but the money these tags bring in for conservation is the problem. That’s why all the spotlighting,trail cameras and all the guides cronies out and about all year looking for the high money rollers. If everybody had to draw like us low life’s that would mostly go away. Would you agree.
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I definitely won't deny it's a major factor, yes.

Having said that, you take away conservation tags and you still have literally hundreds of premium tags that will still force outfitters to compete with each other, which is where the real problem is.
Success brings the high dollars, regardless of how the actual tag originated from.
 
Vanilla said:
Hey SS, why don’t you tell us you don’t get it without saying “I don’t get it.”
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Keep crying because the big bad guides are ruining your experience! Stop crying. If it’s so important to you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

But you’re just going to sit there and *****. Typical resident Randy
 
SS! said:
one thing is for sure, you guys sure don’t spend enough time outdoors 😂
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There are bears and chit out there :oops:

Oh, and can we please differentiate between outfitters and guides. They are NOT the same in most cases.
 
Not really slam. The money boys buy the tags every year and so the guides mostly know who there clientele is. If the money boys only drew tags every few years like the rest of us then in my opinion it wouldn’t be so bad. But that being said i wonder what percentage of Joe blows hire guides when they draw. All this started going down hill when don Peary started all this. Just my opinion
 
hossblur said:
No.

If there was only one option, hunt it yourself, it would go away. The tag, or the value of it, is what it is.

The **** that surrounds it, is the issue.

Outfitting has become totally unregulated. DOPL is useless. DWR management is bought off(bear hunt).

You'd think after FLIR, bait, trail cams, the industry would limit themselves. Instead, they just find another avenue.

It's out of control, we all know it.

And frankly, it's something the majority of us agree on
Click to expand...
you seem well versed in this topic. I’m a little lazy tonight because I have to go to Christmas parties. What does it take to become an outfitter in Utah? And to a lesser extent a guide? Is there a difference? Some states guides have to work for outfitters, is this the case in UT?

If you don’t know that’s fine, my curiosity has been triggered so I’ll look into it.

If there was a restriction on number of outfitting permits and some more standards in place do you think that would help?

In AK one must do at least 60 days in the field working for an established outfitter (called registered guide) before they can get the license of assistant guide. An assistant guide has to work for a registered guide for 3 years and do X amount of hunts a year to qualify to take their registered guide test. Also to qualify for the test one must have a certain number of notarized letters of recommendation. The test covers not only hunting regulations, but first aid, business insurance questions, topography etc. Out of the professional licenses offered in AK it has one of the highest failure rates. And if one has any wildlife violation prior or during any of the process they have to appeal to a board to even take the test. Simply put, it’s a commitment like a skilled trade apprenticeship, I’m doubting UT or AZ has such a program? It would weed out a lot of those clowns.

thanks if you can get me the cliff notes requirements of guide/outfitter in either state that would be sweet, but if not I’ll find them. Maybe @berrysblaster could provide a quick write up?
 
Horsecorn said:
Not really slam. The money boys buy the tags every year and so the guides mostly know who there clientele is. If the money boys only drew tags every few years like the rest of us then in my opinion it wouldn’t be so bad. But that being said i wonder what percentage of Joe blows hire guides when they draw. All this started going down hill when don Peary started all this. Just my opinion
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I politely semi disagree.

Yes high dollar tags breed high expectations, but the percentage of high end tags are only a fraction of what these top outfitters accommodate.

But perhaps you are correct in saying "maybe it wouldn't be so bad"
 
Bluehair said:
There are bears and chit out there :oops:

Oh, and can we please differentiate between outfitters and guides. They are NOT the same in most cases.
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Outfitters are the company, the guide is the employee.

In Utah, it is illegal to just be a guide, you have to be licensed under an outfitter to get guide status.
 
slamdunk said:
Outfitters are the company, the guide is the employee.

In Utah, it is illegal to just be a guide, you have to be licensed under an outfitter to get guide status.
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I know…but you know what I meant. One is an entity whose primary purpose is to generate a profit. The other is a dude working for a paycheck by doing what he’s told.

If you are a famous “owner-operator”, you’re probably a a corp dude with a chopper on speed dial.

I know thats a pretty broad brush, but you can’t deny that corporate outfitting has caused significant - sometimes negative - changes in the hunting industry.
 
SS! said:
you seem well versed in this topic. I’m a little lazy tonight because I have to go to Christmas parties. What does it take to become an outfitter in Utah? And to a lesser extent a guide? Is there a difference? Some states guides have to work for outfitters, is this the case in UT?

If you don’t know that’s fine, my curiosity has been triggered so I’ll look into it.

If there was a restriction on number of outfitting permits and some more standards in place do you think that would help?

In AK one must do at least 60 days in the field working for an established outfitter (called registered guide) before they can get the license of assistant guide. An assistant guide has to work for a registered guide for 3 years and do X amount of hunts a year to qualify to take their registered guide test. Also to qualify for the test one must have a certain number of notarized letters of recommendation. The test covers not only hunting regulations, but first aid, business insurance questions, topography etc. Out of the professional licenses offered in AK it has one of the highest failure rates. And if one has any wildlife violation prior or during any of the process they have to appeal to a board to even take the test. Simply put, it’s a commitment like a skilled trade apprenticeship, I’m doubting UT or AZ has such a program? It would weed out a lot of those clowns.

thanks if you can get me the cliff notes requirements of guide/outfitter in either state that would be sweet, but if not I’ll find them. Maybe @berrysblaster could provide a quick write up?
Click to expand...
I guess one difference between being a guide in Alaska and being a guide in Utah is in Utah you might have to work the graveyard shift as a spot lighter.
 
Bluehair said:
I know…but you know what I meant. One is an entity whose primary purpose is to generate a profit. The other is a dude working for a paycheck by doing what he’s told.

If you are a famous “owner-operator”, you’re probably a a corp dude with a chopper on speed dial.

I know thats a pretty broad brush, but you can’t deny that corporate outfitting has caused significant - sometimes negative - changes in the hunting industry.
Click to expand...
100%
 
SS! said:
Keep crying because the big bad guides are ruining your experience! Stop crying. If it’s so important to you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

But you’re just going to sit there and *****. Typical resident Randy
Click to expand...

I’m sorry I kicked your dog, but you don’t have to be such a baby all the time! Goodness, let those balls drop and be a man just once for a change. I challenge you to find a post I’ve ever put on this or any other website about a guide ruining an experience for me. Find just one. I’d wait for your response, but you couldn’t do it. Here is some free advise: try just once reading/listening to understand instead of to respond as a doooosh canoe. Just once. Try it! You might be amazed how much smarter your next post might be.
 
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SS! said:
you seem well versed in this topic. I’m a little lazy tonight because I have to go to Christmas parties. What does it take to become an outfitter in Utah? And to a lesser extent a guide? Is there a difference? Some states guides have to work for outfitters, is this the case in UT?

If you don’t know that’s fine, my curiosity has been triggered so I’ll look into it.

If there was a restriction on number of outfitting permits and some more standards in place do you think that would help?

In AK one must do at least 60 days in the field working for an established outfitter (called registered guide) before they can get the license of assistant guide. An assistant guide has to work for a registered guide for 3 years and do X amount of hunts a year to qualify to take their registered guide test. Also to qualify for the test one must have a certain number of notarized letters of recommendation. The test covers not only hunting regulations, but first aid, business insurance questions, topography etc. Out of the professional licenses offered in AK it has one of the highest failure rates. And if one has any wildlife violation prior or during any of the process they have to appeal to a board to even take the test. Simply put, it’s a commitment like a skilled trade apprenticeship, I’m doubting UT or AZ has such a program? It would weed out a lot of those clowns.

thanks if you can get me the cliff notes requirements of guide/outfitter in either state that would be sweet, but if not I’ll find them. Maybe @berrysblaster could provide a quick write up?
Click to expand...

Off top of my head

DOPL license, dba(doing business as), liability insurance/bond, cpr certified, about $500.

Reality, not much
 
Bluehair said:
I know…but you know what I meant. One is an entity whose primary purpose is to generate a profit. The other is a dude working for a paycheck by doing what he’s told.

If you are a famous “owner-operator”, you’re probably a a corp dude with a chopper on speed dial.

I know thats a pretty broad brush, but you can’t deny that corporate outfitting has caused significant - sometimes negative - changes in the hunting industry.
Click to expand...


If your a licensed sparky, in the end it's in you
 
The big dogs in the industry lobbied and made it tougher for a little guy to obtain a guide license by themselves.
Now they have to either register as an outfitter or umbrella under a licensed outfitter to get legally licensed.
Monopoly
 
@SS! becoming a licensed guide doesn’t take much. Be a competent outdoorsman/hunter, work with an established outfitter as a pseudo intern and they’ll fast track the process. Can be done in less than a week if a guy has that avenue.

Outfitter is harder, but still not challenging.

Obtaining a forest permit? Now that takes some doing.
 
berrysblaster said:
@SS! becoming a licensed guide doesn’t take much. Be a competent outdoorsman/hunter, work with an established outfitter as a pseudo intern and they’ll fast track the process. Can be done in less than a week if a guy has that avenue.

Outfitter is harder, but still not challenging.

Obtaining a forest permit? Now that takes some doing.
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Seems like the process could be made a little more difficult, which would weed out some of the bad ones and put more value on having the license.
 
SS! said:
Seems like the process could be made a little more difficult, which would weed out some of the bad ones and put more value on having the license.
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It 100% could and probably should. Personally think the issues run a little deeper though.

Hunters and Guides are by nature different. I think a lot of the issues are rooted in that personality.
 
SS! said:
Seems like the process could be made a little more difficult, which would weed out some of the bad ones and put more value on having the license.
Click to expand...

That's what we're talking about. Fewer licenses available would mean bad ones weeded out.

But that won't happen under DOPL, they rarely if ever shut down anyone, and in the rare occasion they do, the person just changes names, or has their wife hold the license and they are right back in buisness.
 
Hey SS?

Can You Post Some AS THEY LAY Pics?




SS! said:
Really? You have a group of guys bitching about one user group? It’s obvious if one would just spent some more time outdoors they wouldn’t let something so little bother them. Outfitter user group likely has less fines & convictions vs resident randy diy. Hell look at mossback in Utah. Biggest in the state. How many convictions?

You guys just spent a little bit more time outdoors maybe you’ll see clearly that there’s bad users in all groups. At least outfitters pay license fees where the YouTube/instagrammers pay nothing.

Some wolves I saw yesterday. We were both hunting the same moose. I don’t hate them for that. Get outside. Stop your crying :

View attachment 128213View attachment 128214

Hope those A3 clowns get the book thrown at them. But I’m not asking for any restrictions based off these clowns.

Carry on. I’m getting my gear ready for a Sunday traverse.
Click to expand...
 
What if we limited guides and outfitters to private lands and banned them on public lands? Let them ruin hunting on the CWMUs and LOAs but ban guiding on public lands.

I don’t see this happening given the way Utah has commercialized hunting, but it would go a long way to solving the problem.

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
What if we limited guides and outfitters to private lands and banned them on public lands? Let them ruin hunting on the CWMUs and LOAs but ban guiding on public lands.

I don’t see this happening given the way Utah has commercialized hunting, but it would go a long way to solving the problem.

Hawkeye
Click to expand...
I guided 20+ years for Bucks and Bulls Guides and Outfitters, everything they did was (is) on private land, CWMU's or Tribal Lands.
It is night and day opposite of public land hunting.
One on One hunting, no spotters, bait, cams, flying ever needed. The animals are in their natural elements and not pressured by human activity.
It was fun and the experiences, memories and portfolio I have are pretty amazing.
 
slamdunk said:
I guided 20+ years for Bucks and Bulls Guides and Outfitters, everything they did was (is) on private land, CWMU's or Tribal Lands.
It is night and day opposite of public land hunting.
One on One hunting, no spotters, bait, cams, flying ever needed. The animals are in their natural elements and not pressured by human activity.
It was fun and the experiences, memories and portfolio I have are pretty amazing.
Click to expand...


Um, Deseret spends a bit of time in the chopper looking "for stray cows😉)
 
hossblur said:
Um, Deseret spends a bit of time in the chopper looking "for stray cows😉)
Click to expand...
I'm sure they do.

I've guided probably 25 hunts on DLL and have never once seen a chopper, heard a chopper or heard chatter about using a bird to find elk.
There are so many bulls on that ranch, air surveillance isn't even remotely needed.
1:1 ratio.
 
slamdunk said:
I'm sure they do.

I've guided probably 25 hunts on DLL and have never once seen a chopper, heard a chopper or heard chatter about using a bird to find elk.
There are so many bulls on that ranch, air surveillance isn't even remotely needed.
1:1 ratio.
Click to expand...

Not to find them, to "remind" them where home is
 
hossblur said:
Not to find them, to "remind" them where home is
Click to expand...
I've heard those rumors, but personally never saw it or even heard chatter about it.
There's really no need to keep them inside because there's no need for them to wander outside.
It's the absolute perfect Elk ecosystem.

I haven't been on that ranch since about 2014, so I have no interest in defending it 😁
 

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