Acceptable Accuracy

[Sendero]

I was wondering in your opinions how do you judge acceptable accuracy when you are sighting in your rifle at the range? I read the posts about 1" groups or sub-1" groups, and while I practice to get better I shoot groups between 1.6" and 2" (5 shot group). I want to hit a deer out to 300 yds. I feel anything past that is stretching my ability right now. So I wanted to hear what is great accuracy, what is good accuracy, Mediocre accuracy, and "Son, you need to practice more accuracy.

Sendero

 

[RANGERCON]

Sendero, you can't get too much trigger time.

We owe it to the animals we hunt to be able to put them down as quickly, cleanly and efficiently as possible.

Shooting performance is a perishable skill. Meaning that it diminishes very quickly without practice.

I don't care if you or someone else is a currently active or ex SEAL, Delta, Force Recon, or Scout/Sniper, you have to keep shooting to stay on top of your game.

Typically, shooting "MOA" is the accuracy standard. Meaning 1" group @ 100 yards, 2" group @ 200 yards, etc. I always like to shoot a 5 shot group to get my results. Others prefer a 3 shot group.

If you want to shoot out to 300 yards, then you might want to think about shooting at least a 3 shot group 3" or less at 300 yards. And I like to shoot at the range like I'm going to shoot out in the bush. Usually off my Harris Ultra Light, backpack, etc. You won't have the luxury of having a nice bench to hunker down on when it's time to shoot.

Know your rifle/caliber!!!!! Check ballistic charts, get all your dope on your scope figured out. If you use a rangefinder, take it with you when you shoot. Try it out in fog too. Some RF read in fog and some don't.

300 yards is not a huge distance. But, and 35 mph wind going left to right of you can move that bullet a lot. Good luck!!!

 

[Sendero]

Thanks for the feedback. I shoot a 25-06 that I consistently get 1" to 1.5" groups, but I am not as accurate with my 7mm and I want to be. I guess I am just a wuss and the 7mm kicks more hehe.

 

[Phantom Hunter]

Sendero.

Some rifles/loads will be more accurate than others. My Rem. 700 7mag delivers 1/2" three shot groups IF I do my part. Small groups from the bench do two things, one-let you know what you and your rifle/load are capable of, two-give you confidence (if you shoot small groups) in you shooting ability. With the 25-06 and the 7mm I would strive for "1 or less groups. Both are flat shooting rounds which will deliver the good at long range if you have the right combination of rifle/load/skill. Good shootin.

Phantom Hunter

 

[RANGERCON]

I personally could not live with myself or a hunting rifle that would not shoot 1" or less at 100 yards with hand loads.

Do we need to be that anal about accuracy?? NO.... But, that's me!!LOL

I guess part of the reason I'm so rigid about accuracy, is that I go to a range where several "wanna be big game hunters" hang out. I almost vomit to see them say "Yeah, she's dialed in for huntin' season, boys!!" (With beer breath, no less.)

I look at their targets, and see they hit a 8" pie plate at the 100 yard line twice and shot about 5-6 rounds. (Maybe if they had less than a twelve pack and put the cigarette down while they shot, might have tightened that group up.) Then again....We are dealing with people that have an IQ of a house plant.

That's my read, friends. Your milage may vary...

 

[RELH]

Sendero;
Rangercon gave you good advice. I also am very anal about the accuracy of my rifles and want under 1 min. of angle at the range I am shooting. But to answer your question, you have set a far distance of 300 yards with a rifle that gives your 1.6 to 2 inches on a 5 shot group. That is more then you need at the range of 300 yards. your rifle should be shooting 4.5 to 6 inch groups at 300, and the kill zone on a deer is about 10-14 inches depending on the size of the deer.
I use 3 shot groups to test hunting rifles, and the first 3 shots tend to group much tighter then a 5 shot group due to barrel heat in some hunting rifles. Start measuring your 3 shot groups and see if they are much tighter in grouping. Some guys rant and rave about 5 shot groups only and a bench rest shooter rant and raves about 10 shot groups as being the true test of the accuracy of a rifle. I say, show me a game animal that will stick around for you to shoot 5 or 10 shots and your groups might be valid. THE FIRST SHOT IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS!
As you go along, you will improve on your shooting, and you will learn tricks to make your rifle more accurate and that is part of the fun of shooting. By your statement, you are ahead of the game then most hunters, you have shown you are concerned about having very good accuracy, and you have set a reasonable distance limit for yourself. That shows maturity on your part, and respect for the game animal you are shooting at.
That little senario given by Rangercon on the "beer breath" 2 hits on a paper plate happens to be too damn true alot of times. I have seen it many times also, but the target was the beer can and if they hit once, the gun was considered to be "dead on". I will not hunt with A.H.'s like that, they are the type to belive in "sound shots" also.
RELH

 

[Sendero]

Thanks Fellas. RELH, I do measure my 3 shot groups as well and you are right they are tighter. I also agree with what you said about being unable to get 5-10 shots off at a deer in the field. I guess I was just trying to get tighter 5 shot groups because I want to know my gun and know how to make it/me perform better. Answer: Practice, Practice, Practice.

 

[mtmuley]

Hey RANGERCON, what you said is true, only a lot of guys around here don't even bother going to the range. Then they can throw the beer cans out in the woods. In am anal also. I have read that inch and a half groups serve well for a hunting rifle for the average joe. Get up over 400 yards or so, and I think half inch or less should be minimum. mtmuley

 

[muzz]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-10-04 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]
Sendero, What is your trigger pull set at? I like mine right at 2 or 2.5 pounds. Trigger pull can make or break a good group. Letting your barrel cool down a couple of minutes after each shot also helps. Although in the field you don't have time to let the barrel cool down you know what it will do with a cool barrel. If you can consistantl get a 1" group then you will be fine out to 300 yards. My 300wsm was shooting 5/8" groups with 5 shots out to 100 yards.

 

[fisrtcoueswas80inches]

i shoot a 30-06, the best group i ever shot was 3 shots all touching at 100 yards. if ther enot toucing, they are always within 1/2" overall. now, when i shoot my dads 7mmum, that is a different story. on my 06 i am used to the recoil and take it well and can shoot that gun. my dads gun on the other hand kicks like a mule and there is some flinch in there for sure which we need to work on for him and i because that developes bad habits.
casey

 

[Sendero]

Okay I feel better. I went home last night and pulled out my targets from last year. I was shooting .75 in. groups at 100 with my 25-06 consistently. Whew!! I am still not that accurate with my 7mm mag yet. I shot the mag for the first time in about a year last week. I am going to try some different loads and see where that get's me.

Has anybody ever shot the Black Hills ammo with Barnes-X bullet? I've been reading alot of good things about it lately.

 

[RANGERCON]

Barnes is a funny bullet. Some rifles like them, and some don't.
And when I say "don't'", I mean don't!!!!

I have had a rather charmed life concerning Barnes. They have shot very well in all my stuff. I'm not sure why that is either.

I do tend to load them farther from the lands than other bullets, but not sure. But, you are referring to BH factory ammo.

Black Hills is superb ammo. Try them out and see if your rifle likes them. You will know very fast if they do or not.

Does BH make a Barnes round for a 7 mag?? I know they do for a .300 Win mag.

 

[Sendero]

Yeah, they make a 140 grain 7mm mag called Black Hills Gold with the Barnes-X bullet. Velcoity-3150 FPS, Energy-3084 Ft. Lbs.. I want to try to shoot that barnes-x coated bullet and see how that works. I have a friend who went on safari and killed some big critters with a 30-378 Weatherby and that's what he shot and the bullet really stayed together. It was pretty impressive.

 

[RANGERCON]

Theres the X, XLC(coated), and the new Triple Shock. I like the Triple Shock the best, but all the Barnes have performed well for me. 3260fps out of a .300 Wim mag. 168gr. Triple Shock...Not bad at all..hehehe

 

[RELH]

Black Hills ammo Co. has a very good rep about loading very accurate ammo. I know of several SWAT units using their ammo because of the consistant accuracy. When it comes to factory ammo, Black Hills and Federal has been my choice for years, but I still love loading my own.

RELH

 

[Sendero]

I hear ya RELH. I have been shooting Federal Premium lately but I wanted to try the Black Hill's Gold. I just can't find anybody that carries it where I live. And I don't think I can order it because of the Federal Laws. I guess I could have the local gun shop order it for me. I'm sure one of you fellas know the answer to that one.

I haven't started reloading yet, but I got some of of my Grandpa's old equipment and i'm cleaning it up. Reading a book from Barnes Bullets right now about it.

 

[OSOK]

We shoot the Black Hills 52 grain ammo in our AR-15's. The rifles are supposed to deliver the best accuracy w/ the 68 grain match stuff. The 52 grainers give the splat factor I'm looking for on varmits, and have delivered incredibly on paper.

Do they make a 7 mag ammo w/ other bullet selections than the Barnes? I'm going to have to look to see if I can find a website or something.

Thanks

 

[RELH]

Sendero;

You can still order the ammo, I have always gotten though a wholesaler and I do not know if you can get it direct from Blackhills. Check for a website for Blackhills and you should be able to ascertain if you can order direct from them or if you have to contact a wholesaler such as Midway.

RELH

 

[RANGERCON]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-12-04 AT 06:18AM (MST)[p]Sendero, the Barnes is a great bullet. I'm not so sure it's a good bullet to start reloading with. I can be a little hinky to get right.

I would start with a match bullet, specifically the Seirra Match King. These bullets are fairly easy to reload, and most rifles seem to shoot them well. MK's are cheaper to reload too.
You can buy 2 boxes of MK's or one box of Barnes X's.

I have a saying that, "If a rifle won't shoot a Match King, I won't shoot anything." There is also a fair chance that your particular rifle won't shoot the Barnes. Some do, some don't.

I have heard of indentical rifles, makes, caliber, barrel length, etc. One will shoot sub moa, the other won't shoot less than a 3" group @ 100 yards. I don't understand all I know about that.

I would try the BH ammo like REHL suggested, and see if your rifle digs Barnes.
Reloading is a sport all it's own, and I would highly encourage you to get into it.

 

[Sendero]

Osok,
They make the 140 grain 7mm mag with a Nosler Ballistic Tip, I'm pretty sure about that one. They have a sight that has some info about it. It's the Black Hill's Gold ammo, I think it's their ammo that caters to hunters.