LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-18 AT 09:55PM (MST)[p]>>>
>>>Hey EFA!
>>>
>>>Go Shoot a Rock!
>>>
>>>A Target!
>>>
>>>A Beer Can!
>>>
>>>To BRAGG You Shoot Does &
>>>Then Give the Meat away
>>>is a Joke!
>>>
>>>Being a Doe Shooter Ain't Helping
>>>the Problem with the Deer
>>>Herd!
>>>
>>>I Don't Care Who Justifies it!
>>>
>>>
>>>It's TOTAL BS!
>>>
>>>
>>And shooting a trophy buck and
>>bragging about it and hanging
>>it on some wall is
>>helping the deer herds? How
>>so?
>
>So EFA?
>
>Let's Say somebody shot a Mature
>Buck!
>
>How many Deer did that Person
>Kill?
>
>Let's say You shot a 2
>year old Doe!
>
>How many Deer did you Kill?
>
>
>PLEASE DO SPLAIN!
>
To the readers: I originally posted the text mentioned above, ie; "And shooting a trophy buck........", but soon decided I didn't have the look-up time or interest needed to explain my remark, especially since some posters seemed to have made up their minds, no matter what I wrote. So I started a complete edit including a delete, but shortly was called to dinner by my family and when I got back to the computer to finish writing the new post I didn't realize Muley73 and elkassassin had already responded. In any case, I went ahead with my homework on the original post thus the following:
elk, Let's say we stick with reality and include all statewide harvest numbers instead of just isolating the hypothetical 2 deer killers in the hypothetical scenario you propose which is obviously a set up! (I had to use the 2016 data because the 2017 DWR Annual Big Game Report isn't out yet.) And so,
Let's say I and my fellow antlerless deer killers each kill one antlerless deer. How many deer are killed?
Let's say somebody and his/her fellow buck deer killers each kill one mature buck. How many deer are killed?
The answer to the first question is impossible to answer with any accuracy because of the many variables. It could be one or many. The variables:
1) Is the antlerless deer a buck or doe? I know at least one button-buck that was killed, my daughter's. How many more small bucks were there?
2) If the deer was a doe, was it pregnant? About 3% to 5% of the does each year aren't.
3) If the doe was pregnant, was it carrying a single or twins? Most does carry singles their first pregnancy, but twins thereafter.
4) If pregnant, was/were the fetuses male ore female. It's about 50/50.
5) Were the fetuses delivered? Most are, but not all.
6) Did the fawns survive their first year? As you are aware, there was a very low first year fawn survival rate in Northern Utah this last winter due to winterkill, only 10% to 20%. Even a 60% fawn first year survival rate is high
7) Finally, how many years does a doe live and continue to produce fawns? Wild mule deer life expectancies are about 7 to 9 years at the most, which means that many does quit producing after 5 to 6 years of doing so.
So the answer to question #1 is, we don't know for sure.
And how many antlerless deer were initially killed in 2016?
473 on General Unit DWR hunts
19 on CWMU's
2,000 (about) on depredation/landowner hunts.
That's about 2,492
Does it make a negative difference to the growth of hunted herds. NO! ALL of those deer are removed from areas where growth of the deer herd in those areas is NOT WANTED! The farmers and ranchers don't want more deer in their crops and pasturelands. The cities and communities don't want more deer on their streets, parks, neighborhoods, and cemeteries. The BLM and NFS doesn't want more deer in areas where the forage and cover is depleted and/or degraded. The DWR doesn't want more deer in the above areas or areas that allow them to grow accustomed to people and their surroundings. Hunters are pretty much the only ones who bristle at the thought of killing does, no matter where the are. But, as littlebighorn mentioned in post #7, hunters aren't the only stakeholders in this issue and, frankly, we're not #1 either nor should we be. We're the only ones who want to increase the population in these areas. Everyone else wants to maintain the current level or reduce it. Yes, let's increase the herd, just not in these areas!
On to question #2. How many bucks were killed in 2016? According to the Report,
31,315 on General Unit DWR hunts
1,126 on LE Unit DWR hunts
1,561 on CWMU hunts
That's 34,002
In other words, the buck hunters killed over 13 times more the number of deer than the antlerless hunters killed. And if this keeps up for the next 5 years, antlerless hunters will kill 14,952 deer in areas they aren't needed or wanted, while buck hunters will kill 204,012 deer in areas where we want them.
Now, FWIW, 9 of the current 38 habitat (not hunting) managed units are above population objectives (including 3 where I've shot does, ie; Pine Valley, Zion and Panguith Lake.). Also, in 22 of those units the populations are growing, 4 are stead, while 12 are dropping.