It's something I'm looking at more and more. The stock would be rented. I see some unit write ups recommending horses. I normally backpack and spike camp solo. I understand packing in and out big plus. But when your at camp or hunting keeping up with them? What are some things to look out for? Does insurance cover for lost stock? Any thoughts for a beginner? I have rode before just never hunting.
Are horses worth the trouble?
- Thread starter elkwon
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elkassassin
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Be very Careful when Hiking up behind them!
We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!
Horses are great to pack gear in and out and to pack out game, but they do require a lot of care. My dad always used horses and I well remember making trips back to the trail head to retrieve the horses after they got loose. One broke a leg crossing a river and had to be shot and left. My bro. in law lost a horse off a cliff a few years ago. A while back, we listened on the walkie talkies to a guy that had spent three days looking for his horses after the one he was riding tipped over backward and ran off with the pack horse. They had found one piece of a saddle and a piece of a bridle in three days, but so sign of the horses.
My opinion: unless you are too old or too lazy to backpack, you are better off without horses for deer. Elk are another matter if you get very far off the road. You don't have to feed and water your backpack, and it doesn't go anywhere until you move it yourself. Now that I am 65 years old though, I am starting to think a little more seriously about using a horse at times.
My opinion: unless you are too old or too lazy to backpack, you are better off without horses for deer. Elk are another matter if you get very far off the road. You don't have to feed and water your backpack, and it doesn't go anywhere until you move it yourself. Now that I am 65 years old though, I am starting to think a little more seriously about using a horse at times.
DW, BigJohnT said we need to become friends. I understand the smarter not harder idea, but whats second nature to you after twenty years maybe a real problem for me, might have to try back country camping - scouting trip in CO. this summer to see how it goes. DW are you around unit 76? Do you rent stock?
I'm just about as far from 76 as u can b and still b in the state. I hunted 77 half a dozen times, killed my first branch antlered bull down there. Sombrero ranches rents horses over most of the state. They got em on dude strings all summer so they weed out the trouble makers, that'll b an advantage. That's pretty country down there, great place to ride. There's places all over that'll teach ya basic horsemanship, alotta places will trade a little chit shoveling for some free lessons and time around em. I guarantee once you've hunted with em you won't ever hunt without em. I came off my 1st one when I was 4, and came off my last one last October, and several others in between. There's a risk involved no question, but the rewards far out weigh em.
smitty
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Not worth it. If you need help getting an animal out you can pay someone. By taking horses you are adding responsibility and danger. Plus, if you haven't been around horses much, there's alot to learn. I grew up on horses. Won't use them. If someone was going to pack me in and drop me off, and then come back and get me and my gear, then yes. That service you can also get for a fee. That I would do, but to babysit and take care of them while I'm hunting? No thanks.
I grew up hunting with horses, and I prefer to hunt on foot. They sure make packing a camp in and an animal out easier though. I had to drag a lama 8 miles into the unitas one time. That wasn't very fun either. Without em, we wouldn't have been able to pack the goat out all in one trip though.
hounddawgs
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My wife and I hunt with horses and mules it's lots of fun and work. We hi line and use hobbles we use them to get camp in and out and pack game.I would not suggest renting any stock to use asking for problems. They are worth using if you have them already, go with someone that already has the stock and equipment.
Thanks guys, its sounds like its a personal preference issue. Can you do much off trail riding to retrieve game and scout? How steep is to steep for horses? Maybe that's been my problem all these years, when friends ask to go hunting I tell how much hiking is involved, I never hear back from them. It also sounds like if you have trusted stock and they trust you a lot less chance for a train wreck.
foundation
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When you ask about how steep or taking them off trail. A good mountain horse will and can go anywhere you can go as long as its not like technical rock climbing and terrain within reason. One thing you will see though just how gnarly of country you want to take them. Super steep up or down and things can get western in a hurry and it only takes a few wrecks before you get smarter about where you will take them.
Don't have much experience with rented stock but I can tell you from years of experience, its not just a hobby but has to be your lifestyle. I ride a couple times a week and my wife rides every day keeping the horses tuned up. We are probably the exception but you still need to keep them tuned up at least a couple times a month or they are not going to be much use to you.
Nothing better than riding a good horse in good country and I like them for scouting or packing, but for actual hunting I still do most of it on foot. When I finally draw a moose tag I'm sure my tune will change.
Don't have much experience with rented stock but I can tell you from years of experience, its not just a hobby but has to be your lifestyle. I ride a couple times a week and my wife rides every day keeping the horses tuned up. We are probably the exception but you still need to keep them tuned up at least a couple times a month or they are not going to be much use to you.
Nothing better than riding a good horse in good country and I like them for scouting or packing, but for actual hunting I still do most of it on foot. When I finally draw a moose tag I'm sure my tune will change.
Renting 5 - 6 horses for a week is fairly expensive after you factor in equipment, trailering, and rental costs. We used to rent horses to hunt the Thorofare. I think 5 trips in the 90's and early 2000's. Last time we went I think we had approximately $2500 - $2700 in rental costs plus gas and equipment/feed. Given all the work, cost and headaches, decided it was easier to do a guided hunt and let someone else deal with the hassle. If your doing day hunts or aren't that far from the trailhead with just a couple of horses, it wouldn't be too bad...
Gator
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I love hunting off horses and using mules to pack in, It a big part of the hunt. I don't agree it waste hunting time unless you are hunting in the dark, We wake up in the dark and we go to sleep in the dark, during daylight hours we are hunting. We highline and hobble them. Some day we walk out from camp other days we ride to a distance valley or peak to hunt they are hobbled and turned loose and with one tie off to a tree, they pretty much stay together.
My favorite pictures are a pack string with a bunch of horns on the packs.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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My favorite pictures are a pack string with a bunch of horns on the packs.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
tracker12
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We hunted NW Colorado for years and rented horses from Sombrero Ranch. They were great and made the hunt very enjoyable. We were easily able to get back in the mountain before the walking hunters. Plus after 5 or 6 days we weren't worn out like some others. Then when the elk hit the ground we used our saddle panniers to easily pack it out. By the way we got insurance and I highly recommend it. Otherwise a lost horse may cost you $5000.
Phantom Hunter
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If you don't own horses and don't ride often off "bridal paths" or groomed trails you will not really like messing with horses on a hunt. I have horses and ride several times a week. Horses are work but they do ease the burden of packing a camp in several miles and an elk out several miles. If you rent or take your own be sure they are broke to packing, gunfire, tarps, and things that go bump in the night as much as possible. Good luck.
mntnguide
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For anyone not used to or not knowledgable in packing and hunting off stock...they can be a pain.. but for those that know what they are doing..there is no other way!! I will always elk hunt via my horses and mules. I can cover 15 miles a day with ease and find elk, and my back is never tired when packing out bulls. Just depends on where your hunting..I prefer to hunt 12 miles+ from trailheads and usually wilderness, and thus backpacking is not even a thought. Once you hunt with horses and realize how to do it, you wont do it any other way! .. I will say though, it is not something to jump into unless somebody has some sort of experience..you owe it to yourself and the stock you are responsible for, to know how to take care of them when in the backcountry, otherwise things can turn for the worse very easily.
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eelgrass
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I have a tremendous amount of respect for people like DW and mntnguide who use horses and do it successfully, but it's not for me. They scare me and they don't like me and I don't like them.
Eel
It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
Eel
It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
mightyhunter
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I used to do some hunting with horses. About 10 years ago, I said no more. This was based on three different nightmares. The first involved horses wandering off. We wasted days trying to find them. The second involved a hunting companion getting tossed onto a rocky hillside. The final straw was an elk hunt in SW Wyoming. We had 3 horses on a zip line. We had a very timid gelding on his own line. In the middle of the night, that horse was attacked by two horny bull moose. He was gutted and had a leg broken above the hock. We had to shoot the poor horse. This cut the hunt short and we never got where we wanted. I think about getting a mule to pack now and then, but I keep remembering my past experience. If you like horses and have the time to train and work them, they can be a great tool. If you have horses, it really helps to have a designated non-hunting person to wrangle and watch them. I am just a little sour based on past experience.
Didn't know there was any other way to hunt elk than by horseback.
If you don't know how to handle a horse you will have your hands full you should have at least one cowboy with you. You need good hunting/mountain trail horses. A horse will get you anywhere you want to go faster with a lot less pain plus many times I have rode right up on elk. Love hunting off horses. Try it, you can always walk them back to camp if it's not working.
If you don't know how to handle a horse you will have your hands full you should have at least one cowboy with you. You need good hunting/mountain trail horses. A horse will get you anywhere you want to go faster with a lot less pain plus many times I have rode right up on elk. Love hunting off horses. Try it, you can always walk them back to camp if it's not working.
Thanks guys, Would one for riding and one for packing be the way to go for elk hunting? or if you take two what is one more ? So, it sounds like a few trips with someone eliminates a lot of headaches.
Jodog, That's what I was thinking worse case I will lead them to the trailhead.
Jodog, That's what I was thinking worse case I will lead them to the trailhead.
mntnguide
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The best way...2 mules/horses per elk...It can be done with one, but I only do that if a mule has really "earned" themself one hell of a day. . It is a heavy load for one, especially if you are taking cape and horns as well. For anyone not very experienced or comfortable with stock, packing it out on two is going to be safer, as there is definitely more possibility of the load rolling with a full elk on one.
If u bone em out and aren't packing bone yer lookin at less than 200 lbs on a 3 or 4 yr old elk. They're expensive to rent, u could put an entire elk on a horse I usually do. If you really wanna save $ you can ride in on 1 with saddle panniers load up yer elk and walk out on foot leadin the horse. It can b done many ways depending on the situation. If yer goin back along ways like mtnguide 12+ miles, I'd agree 3 head would b best.
NopeterlikeaSanpeter
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mntnguide said it best. They are worth their weight in gold if you know what you are doing. I would like to see 2 guys attempt to pack out a Bull Bison 12 miles into the back country on their backs.
"Only thing better than horses is a friend with horses."
Words of wisdom...
I had a mustang mare several years ago that I enjoyed riding in the mountains, but I didn't like hunting with her. Too much of a distraction for me. Some do very well hunting with them.
Words of wisdom...
I had a mustang mare several years ago that I enjoyed riding in the mountains, but I didn't like hunting with her. Too much of a distraction for me. Some do very well hunting with them.
sageadvice
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Are they worth the trouble?
IMO, I don't think so! I grew up on a Ranch with lots of horses, never could get along for a extended length of time with them. We rode pretty much every day for one reason or another. Sometimes we rode just to ride but mostly there was work involved.
When in my teens, my best buddy and i hunted off horseback quite a bit. We used his Dad's old horses and they were good to us. We killed some good blacktails hunting that way but the horses absolutely couldn't do a thing that my pard and i couldn't do on foot. I think it was the novelty of hunting horseback and that hardly any of our friends hunted that way is why we liked doing it.
Fast forward 40 years and i bummed a ride to the top of Region H in Wy to set up a nice camp and 2 weeks later to get a ride back down. Without that stocky mustang pony, i'd have never gotten myself or my part of the camp back in near as far as we did. For me now, on a trip like that, it's either go horseback or stay lower on the mountain but i'll not keep horses for the occasional trip. It's just not worth it to me.
Joey
"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
IMO, I don't think so! I grew up on a Ranch with lots of horses, never could get along for a extended length of time with them. We rode pretty much every day for one reason or another. Sometimes we rode just to ride but mostly there was work involved.
When in my teens, my best buddy and i hunted off horseback quite a bit. We used his Dad's old horses and they were good to us. We killed some good blacktails hunting that way but the horses absolutely couldn't do a thing that my pard and i couldn't do on foot. I think it was the novelty of hunting horseback and that hardly any of our friends hunted that way is why we liked doing it.
Fast forward 40 years and i bummed a ride to the top of Region H in Wy to set up a nice camp and 2 weeks later to get a ride back down. Without that stocky mustang pony, i'd have never gotten myself or my part of the camp back in near as far as we did. For me now, on a trip like that, it's either go horseback or stay lower on the mountain but i'll not keep horses for the occasional trip. It's just not worth it to me.
Joey
"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
We have rented horses from Sombrero for the past 12 years. It has worked out great for us. There are usually 4 of us and what we do is rent 1 horse each. We use saddle panniers and pack camp on the horses and lead them in. Then when camp is set up, we are able to ride and hunt off the horses. This keeps the cost down and allows us to hunt further distances from camp. Although we don't own horses, over the years we have gathered all our own gear to the point we just need the horses.
If you are going to do it, in addition to going with someone experienced, I would recommend taking riding lessons and watching videos on highlining, packing and using the proper cinching techniques. It makes all the difference in the world using the right knots.
If you are going to do it, in addition to going with someone experienced, I would recommend taking riding lessons and watching videos on highlining, packing and using the proper cinching techniques. It makes all the difference in the world using the right knots.
Gator
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He's idea is a Good one to look at, try it and see if that work for you, before you buy and FEED those horses for a year.
My nephew's use to buy them just before hunting season then turn around and sell right after, sometime they broke even other times the would lose some money BUT they never fed them over the winter, Spring and summer.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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My nephew's use to buy them just before hunting season then turn around and sell right after, sometime they broke even other times the would lose some money BUT they never fed them over the winter, Spring and summer.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
elkwon, if you can't ride, control a horse , make him go any where you want him to go...up hill, over blow downs and now you have to blaze a new trail to get around it on a hill side, across creeks etc. then having a pack horse with you is going to be twice as hard to do.
Many times unless you can ride like a pro and have good, in shape mountain horses, a horse is going to try you and if that horse senses you aren't in control he is going to do a lot of @%$# that you won't be able to control while trying to pull along another horse. If you have a lot of experience hell yea go for it if you don't you will truly have your hands full. Get some one who knows what's going on hunting with horses , learn this year with him and go kill a big bull. Good luck !!
Many times unless you can ride like a pro and have good, in shape mountain horses, a horse is going to try you and if that horse senses you aren't in control he is going to do a lot of @%$# that you won't be able to control while trying to pull along another horse. If you have a lot of experience hell yea go for it if you don't you will truly have your hands full. Get some one who knows what's going on hunting with horses , learn this year with him and go kill a big bull. Good luck !!
BPKHunter
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You are getting lot's of good advice, but somewhat conflicting messages.
I have and own horses and elk hunt. I wasn't raised with them, but my wife has a passion for trail riding(not hunting), so I use them to pack meat.
I think unless you have a passion for horses, you won't end up owning them for long. They are a huge commitment. If you have a knack for understanding them, that will make all the difference, but as others have said, if you own them you need to keep them in shape, and this means both physically and mentally.
A few things you should know. Horses are lazy. All they want to do is hang out with their friends, of which you are not one, and eat. So you need to get them used to working on a regular basis, so that means riding them a few times a week and doing so in a manner that will prepare them for the work you intend for them while hunting, so a casual 3 mi ride on a flat trail won't cut it. Also, getting them into scary country where noises and smells exist so they and you can get used to handling that stuff. This takes a lot of time and money, and takes away from your own time to condition and scout.
Horses are afraid of everything. The only thing that makes them okay is getting them use to everything. A horse that doesn't mind a pack, doesn't mind the smell of blood/meat, crossing water, or riding in the dark may one day decide that some gray log is bent on killing him. Trust me this is no joke. It clearly helps if you are capable of being calm and cool in all situations as the horses clearly feed off of your confidence or fear. But, no matter how good the horse you will need that confidence at some point as you will have something happen.
I have never rented horses. I will say that it would be good to have a horse that has been worked regularly and packed in the woods often, so a rented horse might benefit from that. The downside I see is that each horse tends to have it's particular strengths and weaknesses, such as blood, water, hopping logs, buddy sour, etc. Obviously when renting it is unlikely you will have the benefit of that kind of understanding.
The biggest hassles in having your horses around while hunting is having to feed and water them. They require a lot of food daily, particularly if they are working hard. So much that they can eat their body weight in a week's hunt. As mentioned earlier, they need to water regularly, though often won't want to drink at all the first day which can subject them to Colic and kill them. What this means is that you will have to be very particular on where you camp and how to manage to get feed for them. Remember this when hoping to get 20 mi from the trailhead, especially if hoping to get near the top of the mtn.
Horses weigh 1000-1200lbs. Ounce for ounce they are 2x as strong. This means they are easily 10x stronger than most men. Horses are PREY animals, so like an elk when confronted with danger they will turn and run NO matter what is in the way(you, cliff, etc.) and mind what I say here, are the most likely way you will die or be crippled while hunting.
So, what I do is take as much of the risk out of the equation that I can. I don't camp with them, I don't ride them while hunting. If I kill an elk, I go get them and pack it out. See hiring packer as alternative here!
Good luck.
I have and own horses and elk hunt. I wasn't raised with them, but my wife has a passion for trail riding(not hunting), so I use them to pack meat.
I think unless you have a passion for horses, you won't end up owning them for long. They are a huge commitment. If you have a knack for understanding them, that will make all the difference, but as others have said, if you own them you need to keep them in shape, and this means both physically and mentally.
A few things you should know. Horses are lazy. All they want to do is hang out with their friends, of which you are not one, and eat. So you need to get them used to working on a regular basis, so that means riding them a few times a week and doing so in a manner that will prepare them for the work you intend for them while hunting, so a casual 3 mi ride on a flat trail won't cut it. Also, getting them into scary country where noises and smells exist so they and you can get used to handling that stuff. This takes a lot of time and money, and takes away from your own time to condition and scout.
Horses are afraid of everything. The only thing that makes them okay is getting them use to everything. A horse that doesn't mind a pack, doesn't mind the smell of blood/meat, crossing water, or riding in the dark may one day decide that some gray log is bent on killing him. Trust me this is no joke. It clearly helps if you are capable of being calm and cool in all situations as the horses clearly feed off of your confidence or fear. But, no matter how good the horse you will need that confidence at some point as you will have something happen.
I have never rented horses. I will say that it would be good to have a horse that has been worked regularly and packed in the woods often, so a rented horse might benefit from that. The downside I see is that each horse tends to have it's particular strengths and weaknesses, such as blood, water, hopping logs, buddy sour, etc. Obviously when renting it is unlikely you will have the benefit of that kind of understanding.
The biggest hassles in having your horses around while hunting is having to feed and water them. They require a lot of food daily, particularly if they are working hard. So much that they can eat their body weight in a week's hunt. As mentioned earlier, they need to water regularly, though often won't want to drink at all the first day which can subject them to Colic and kill them. What this means is that you will have to be very particular on where you camp and how to manage to get feed for them. Remember this when hoping to get 20 mi from the trailhead, especially if hoping to get near the top of the mtn.
Horses weigh 1000-1200lbs. Ounce for ounce they are 2x as strong. This means they are easily 10x stronger than most men. Horses are PREY animals, so like an elk when confronted with danger they will turn and run NO matter what is in the way(you, cliff, etc.) and mind what I say here, are the most likely way you will die or be crippled while hunting.
So, what I do is take as much of the risk out of the equation that I can. I don't camp with them, I don't ride them while hunting. If I kill an elk, I go get them and pack it out. See hiring packer as alternative here!
Good luck.
I was set in stone on getting horses. Went on lots of rides with friends and got comfortable around them. The more I went, the more I wanted some. Drew a mountain goat tag and packed in 11 miles. Everything went good. Shot and killed my goat and used the horses to retrieve my goat back to base camp. Everything still good and on cloud nine, hunt of a lifetime. Packed up the horses to come out, and didn't make it 50 yards from camp and the rodeo started. It happened so fast that one horse slammed into the lead horse and I lost the lead rope out of my hand. The horse that created the problem started to loose the whole pack and all of the gear. Got that horse calmed down and went to get the other horse ( the one with my goat on him). After searching the hillside for 8 hours looking for the horse or anything falling off of the horse, with no luck, we headed for the truck to get help. ( we were on foot, only used the horses to pack in and out). Saddled up the horse that created the problem and started back. Made it about 500 yards and "BAM" rodeo #2. This time he broke the saddle. Now we had a big decision to make, stay there with the supplies and spend the night, or leave everything behind and head for the truck. It was 4 p.m. And almost 11 miles left to go. I had already hiked all day looking for a horse, but made the decision to head back. With a pack on my back loaded down with expensive items I didn't dare leave behind ,I lead a horse out with nothing on him.
At this point in my journey I was ready to shoot a horse. I passed a few hikers on my way out and was asked " why are you packing and the horse is not" my reply was......simply put "I hate horses". I went from wanting horses to wanting to shoot horses in a matter of one day.
We had almost made it back to the truck (about a mile away) when I cam over a small hill to see the horse I had been looking for. For a moment I was so excited to see that horse, but then realized, there was no saddle and no mountain goat strapped to him. I almost hit the ground. Emotional roller coaster day. As I walked up to the horse in disbelief, I noticed that he was tied to a tree, and that the saddle and packs where all there. He had made it 10 miles on his own, and only lost my coffee pot. We saddled up and headed for the truck. By then it was pitch dark, my 10 year old son was exhausted and needed some fresh batteries out of his pack. In the process of doing so he pulled out my knife set and left it in the trail (if anybody found a knife set on the north slope it was mine). As we made it to the truck (I have never been so happy to see a vehicle) we ran into the nice horsemen that tied up my horse. They were waiting for us and had sent someone down the mountain to possibly get search and rescue. We told them our story and thanked them. They asked what we were even doing, I told them hunting mountain goats. The first comment from them was " looks like you didn't get one". At first I thought that this comment was odd, after all they took the goat off of the horse. But then realized that they were just good guys and didn't go through my stuff.
We loaded up and headed for home, only to return with more horses and go back in for my camp. We even used the horse that made it all the way out on his own. On this trip we had no problems other then being saddle sore at the end of the day.
Moral of my story................I am not so sure I want horses anymore. When things go good they are great, it makes me want some. But I still have flash backs when on a horse. Remember they have a mind of their own and things change in a second. My son and I did get a memory that we will never forget, both good and bad. Sorry for the long post.
At this point in my journey I was ready to shoot a horse. I passed a few hikers on my way out and was asked " why are you packing and the horse is not" my reply was......simply put "I hate horses". I went from wanting horses to wanting to shoot horses in a matter of one day.
We had almost made it back to the truck (about a mile away) when I cam over a small hill to see the horse I had been looking for. For a moment I was so excited to see that horse, but then realized, there was no saddle and no mountain goat strapped to him. I almost hit the ground. Emotional roller coaster day. As I walked up to the horse in disbelief, I noticed that he was tied to a tree, and that the saddle and packs where all there. He had made it 10 miles on his own, and only lost my coffee pot. We saddled up and headed for the truck. By then it was pitch dark, my 10 year old son was exhausted and needed some fresh batteries out of his pack. In the process of doing so he pulled out my knife set and left it in the trail (if anybody found a knife set on the north slope it was mine). As we made it to the truck (I have never been so happy to see a vehicle) we ran into the nice horsemen that tied up my horse. They were waiting for us and had sent someone down the mountain to possibly get search and rescue. We told them our story and thanked them. They asked what we were even doing, I told them hunting mountain goats. The first comment from them was " looks like you didn't get one". At first I thought that this comment was odd, after all they took the goat off of the horse. But then realized that they were just good guys and didn't go through my stuff.
We loaded up and headed for home, only to return with more horses and go back in for my camp. We even used the horse that made it all the way out on his own. On this trip we had no problems other then being saddle sore at the end of the day.
Moral of my story................I am not so sure I want horses anymore. When things go good they are great, it makes me want some. But I still have flash backs when on a horse. Remember they have a mind of their own and things change in a second. My son and I did get a memory that we will never forget, both good and bad. Sorry for the long post.
