Are there any left?!

[NMWapiti33]

I know this topic has been around for a long time, and there is a LOT of info on this site regarding the issue, however, I feel over time things change and populations get smaller and smaller. I have read every sentence on this forum regarding the issue. I can't tell you how many days, hours, miles and money I have spent trying to find some Barbary sheep in the OTC units. I live in Albuquerque, so I have been spending most of my time in Unit 9, with still a bit of time along the Canadian, Unit 38 and Unit 34. I am yet to even see a sheep in person!! I don't want to give up, but surely somebody out there has some info on where I may be able to find some....even just see some sheep!! I used to consider myself a decent hunter, but these sheep have me frustrated! I would truly appreciate any help I could get!!

 

[Trad Bow 1979]

This is a long shot but A guy told me that you can find them in the Malpais just below Corona. Actually I have heard that from a few people. I have never tried it.

 

[aranda]

My uncle use to tell me the something and he lived in the area. South east of carona I hear there's some

 

[mozey]

I feel your pain--doing the same thing myself. I did see some fresh tracks in the snow & mud last week in unit 9, but I was never able to get a visual, and I'm not seeing nearly as much sign this year as in the past. I do know of one ewe that was taken near the "ranch" a few months ago.

It's been about five years, but I've hunted the north end of the malpais that the two previous posts are talking about, and can confirm that a least then, there were barbarys in there.

 

[NMBOWHUNTR]

Does anyone know why or can explain why some units are excluded in the OTC hunts. For example, unit 14 and 8? Just curious

 

[NMWapiti33]

Thanks for all the info! I have read a couple posts regarding the Corona area, and the few times I hunted the area I didn't see any sheep. I just got back from spending the day in Unit 9.....lone and behold I got the goose egg again!! I did find a couple areas that looked promising, and ventured into Water Canyon for the 8,735th time! Still fun though! I didn't know there were Barbary in units 8 and 14!!!

 

[ToneafterBone]

There still some out there I seen em. Had a opportunity on Thursday that I'm having a hard time shaking off still. Let's just say I called a pass on the goal line and missed a wide open tackle.. 3 big Ram's all good ones still roaming....

 

[Pnuts]

Tony. Me and your uncle were down there for the bow hunt ran into the sheep. Tag in my pocket rifle home in my safe. Ouch. Still a day to remember

 

[majo22]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-15 AT 09:56PM (MST)[p]I've mad 10 trips so far. spotted one good group but they were too far and I was out of light . Saw 4 2 weeks ago had them at 340 was wating for a bigger one to step out and it didn't happen . Still kicking my self for not just taking the opportunity that I had. Went this weekend place was crawling with hunters.

 

[OCHO]

Everyone and their madre is chasing these suckers now and all the time. And most of the people that get into them or see them take their friends and family and down the line with the domino affect!

They are out there for sure but lots of them getting hammered and poached. They are smart smart animals and tough to find so won't get them al but makes it harder to find them under these circumstances.

I used to hunt coyotes all the time until those damn barbs got in the blood!

 

[ToneafterBone]

OTC. Opportunity That Comes. Gotta be ready and take what's there. We all want that 30 incher. But time and opportunities equal that chance. My 350 bull,180 buck and 30 inch ram will come. Why because I live in New Mexico. Chances are still good if you hunt and put boots on the ground. ...

 

[NMWapiti33]

It does seem like there are more people chasing them now, especially given how many tags they give in the draw areas and a lot of us still cant draw......which puts more pressure in the OTC areas! ToneafterBone is right, we are blessed to be able to hunt in a state that offers such a variety of game, and all on public land!! Just takes time, dedication and work to find them sometimes....but it is hunting after all so it shouldn't seem like work as fun as it is!!

 

[coryb]

I contacted the game and fish sheep biologist about the excluded units last year after hearing from a buddy that he saw one in Tijeras Canyon. He told me they exclude all units that also have bighorns. He also told me they still have confirmed bighorns and barbary in the Sandias. Hard to believe, but that is what he said. I have tried over the counter occasionally for the last three years and saw one in person for the first time yesterday. Unfortunately it was in the Amarillo Zoo.

Cory

 

[mozey]

If you're in Amarillo, it's just a short drive over to Palo Duro Canyon, and you can see some "tame" ones in there...

 

[cantgetdrawn]

They released some RMBHs in the Manzanos, so it would not be too far of a stretch that few made it up north. It seems that the Sandias would actually be better habitat for them.

Barbaries love to travel so no where they end up surprises me. What does is that I had not heard of anyone seeing them in the Manzanos, which would be the likely migration route if they ended up in the Sandias. I would assume that the G&F would encourage people to shoot them if they are sharing the habitat with the RMBHs they released.

 

[NMBOWHUNTR]

The reason I ask is I have a reliable source stating they have come across them in the Manzanos. Its just a hop skip and jump from 38 so it wouldn't surprise me.

I mean how did the Barbary end up in 9? Did they make it down there from the Largo Canyon release or where they introduced on Mt. Taylor?

 

[12ring]

I have a buddy that works on the department of energy security team out at Sandia. Not a rent of cop security guy but like a SWAT team or something. Anyway, they were doing some night training and came across a good sized group of big horns out there. He said there were a few big rams in there too.

 

[ToneafterBone]

Went back out today. Glassed, glassed, hiked glassed some more nothing. Was headed back to the truck pretty much to get in it and head home. But I decided to sit down and take a fiver and pop a top on a Dr.Pepper. Took my pack off dug it out. And as soon as I popped the top and was lifting it to my lips. I caught Sandy Brown movement directly in front of me. I knew exactly what it was. Fumbled the DP going for my gun. Got my gun in shooting position off the knee sitting down.She was stopped buen broadsided.Boom.Seen dust a bit high probably a rock that blew up cuz it was pretty wet from the lil rain the area got. She started running away from me strait away, bolted another round put the crosshairs right on her back squeezed another one off and she dropped like a sheep does, right in the rocks..Bolted another round looked thru the scope she was down. I then raised my BINOS to make sure I wasn't fooling myself. Wasn't the case she laid there no movement at all. This is when i grabbed my range finder and ranged her at 175 in her death bed. Explains why I hit high because my 7mm is zeroed at 300. She was laying on an aspect I couldn't see glassing. And probably watched me sit down and was trying to sneak off unnoticed that didn't work well for her.. I drug her whole .45 of a mile according to my GPS to a road. From there I walked 1.1 to reach my truck. I was done by 1500hrs heading home last tagged punched. OTC. Opportunity That Came and I made it count. This is my 4th Barb in as many years first Ewe also Second biggest out of the 4... Got her hanging now ready for the Butcher tomorrow. ..

 

[dmaxarchr]

Way to go Tony, You sure as hell know how to get it done year after year in your sweet little spot down there! I wish I could've had more time this winter to chase some OTC barbs!

 

[NMWapiti33]

Good job man and congrats on the great success!! 4 for 4 OTC Barbs is a pretty big deal in my book!!!

 

[ToneafterBone]

Thanks guys. I have spent a lot of time down there, put lots of rubber on the ground and on the pavement. And each time I gone down learned something new..

 

[ToneafterBone]

She was an even 17" both sides.

 

[mozey]

Mucho congrats on another OTC. That is impressive.

 

[Gator]

Great end to a long hunt.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[Prime_Beef]

Just a few sheep musings, FWIW......

1. Seriously doubt that there are any bighorns left from the original herd in the Sandias. Don't think there's any Barbary in Tijeras Canyon, either. Bighorn on Kirtland AFB? Maybe, from the Manzano herd. That might be where any bighorn (and Barbary?) sightings in Tijeras Canyon come from. But for a sheep to get north of I-40 would be tough since they constructed the high fences a few years ago. Anything's possible, I guess.

2. As far as the OTC Barbary situation is concerned, they're going to be like finding a needle in a haystack. The Canadian River herd around Roy has been pretty much done for over 20 years. Those sheep dispersed over time down the Canadian towards Tucumcari, plus they were heavily predated by lions. The P-J and oak brush is a LOT denser in the Canadian than it was 25 years ago, too. It's not really good sheep country anymore. I wouldn't waste my time there (and I have!). Unit 9? There's a few sheep on the east and south side of Mt. Taylor, but public access is a problem. Most of the sheep are going to be on the Laguna or one of the big ranches (the Laguna issues two tags, I believe). I've been in the lava flow outside of Carrizozo after sheep. Supposedly they're in there, but it's incredibly difficult to hunt. Pass. There are a few sheep in Unit 38 that move in from the Hondo area. I think that area gets hammered a lot more now than it did in the past. It's probably the easiest OTC area to hunt, though. The west side of Unit 34 seems to be the best bet these days for OTC, but that's going to get overhunted before long, if it isn't already.

3. There's a few other isolated pockets of OTC Barbary in NM. Mostly hunted by locals, they aren't talked about much.

 

[muley505]

Here are a few that are still left. I managed to take the one on the top right, and I was more than happy with it as it was my first year hunting barbary. It was a little over 15". The 30-incher will come eventually with enough time, and was more than happy to just take one. Out of the 13 that I spotted in three different groups, all of them were ewes, so that's what I shot as this was my first go at this. Next time I'll be able to be more picky.

I did want to thank the PNM employee who rode up to me on a horse while I was glassing and gave me some useful advice (I don't know if he reads this or not, but he knows who he is, and I just thought I'd thank him for the advice he shared).

Good luck to all in the draw.

 

[Gator]

Great picture.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[stoney]

It looks like the extermination is getting closer every year. The hunting pressue is so great on the public lands the Barbs don't have a chance and the private lands may be able to propagate a few numbers, but won't make up the ability of the few remaining Barbs to survive. Go shoot those babies and females boys.

Even on the draw areas they shoot all the babies and females!

This kill any Barbary that walks mentality makes me sick to my stomach! Go getem boys.?

 

[muley505]

stoney, I think you may have missed the part about this being my first Barbary. When I'm giving a new species a try, I'm not terribly picky for the first one. And I very much doubt most people's first of any species was an old, mature giant of a creature. Now, I can see some irritation ("nausea") being caused if this was my tenth sheep and I had never adjusted my standard for a "shootable" animal accordingly. I worked very hard (and when I say hard, I don't mean I drove around in my truck five extra miles this time) for this sheep, and I am very pleased with it, and any successive Barbarys I take will, by my own adjusted standards, have to be bigger and more mature than this one.

With that said, I wouldn't have an issue with them putting it all back on the draw system just to see it made a little harder to get a tag. I don't want the species exterminated any more than anyone else does, and just because one guy works really hard and is only able to harvest a ewe doesn't mean he is somehow being unethical and trying to destroy the species.

Oh, and if you wanted to let me know specifically where I can go to find my 30" ram, I would be more than happy to pursue it there so I don't contribute to the killing off of all the babies.

 

[stoney]

muley505,

I wasn't pointing out you specifically or anyone whom is working hard to obtain a first Barbary.

I am speaking in general terms and see such a good resource not being taken care of by the NMDGF. It has so much possibility and opportunity throughout the state to see well managed public lands herds.

It takes a much bigger movement than individual restraint in the case of Barbaries as they are prolific and are survivors if given half a chance. Right now they don't have near half a chance in New Mexico.

The Barbary Sheep fervor only keeps ramping up as our hunting public numbers burgeon and the extreme killer instinct desire to kill an animal and to be able to do our age old genetic makeup as hunters to succeed. When ample opportunity to hunt, and in this case, not many animals left to be hunted, the ramping up far exceeds the resource.

As you well know managing wildlife numbers requires for many species, protection of the female population. If we don't have enough females to keep the herd viable then it is time to stop the senseless killing of the Barbary females. Take a young ram if you feel the extreme desire to kill a Barbary. Let the ladies walk.

 

[muley505]

Stoney, I definitely agree with the sentiment that they are getting pounded way too hard. I also disagree with the fact that NMDGF is trying to kill off more of them for the sake of bighorns. Bighorns, in my opinion, are a frail species that requires a huge amount of management and babying just to survive, and on top of that, you and I will likely never see a tag for one. I think we should let the Barbary's thrive and not try to displace them for the sake of BHS.

I had a blast hunting Barbs, and I would love to be able to hunt them more widely throughout the state, and I don't want them killed off any more than any other hunter who enjoys the experience of pursuing them. I wouldn't mind them making it so I can only draw a tag every 2-3 years if it meant the hunt experience would be better (more animals sighted) and the opportunity for a trophy would be higher.

As a side note, it's probably just my lack of experience looking at barbs, but I thought the one I shot was a young ram when I took the shot. It seemed to have beard/chaps that were exceptionally long for a ewe, but this was only the 13th of these animals I've ever laid eyes on, so my judging skills are still quite green. As I said in my preceding post, now that I've taken the first one, the standard for the second one will be much higher.

I definitely agree with the sentiment of not killing off all of the females. I read an article about a guy who was trying to regenerate his whitetail herd because of EHD, and he didn't shoot any does because he said each time he killed a doe, he was killing three deer instead of just one, and I think that's a good way to look at killing females; you're killing off way more than just that one.

Thanks for the insight, stoney.

 

[muley505]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-15 AT 08:40AM (MST)[p]Double post.

 

[TightLines]

Spotted near Golden on NM14 Can anyone tell what these are?

 

[huntingfoolbg]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-15 AT 06:02PM (MST)[p]Those look to be bighorns to me and what a monster... When you say "Golden" do you mean Golden Open Space off of NM 14 near San Padro Creek?

 

[vinihunt]

Mouflon sheep

 

[TightLines]

So they probably wondered off someones ranch .

 

[mozey]

I was going to say mouflon too, but those look a little different to me than any google images. I've heard there are some feral mouflons running around NM, but I'm not sure I'd recognize one if I saw it...

Way cool pic, whatever they are.

 

[TightLines]

Yes, near that area

 

[Prime_Beef]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-15 AT 03:07PM (MST)[p]Some of you guys really crack me up. Look, the NMDGF is managing Barbary sheep far more effectively now than they EVER have in the last 25 years. They have (finally) accepted the fact that the Barbary aren't going anywhere, and wisely reinstituted the draw in areas with the highest concentration of animals. The animals are hardly being overhunted these days. The 600 sheep permits in Units 29/30, for example, is really nothing. That's a huge area. But the year before the draw started back, there were upwards of 2500 sheep hunters in that area. It was like that for many years. No wonder the numbers were way down!

Quality Barbary hunting opportunities are going to continue to exist in the SE corner of the state, and the NMDGF will continue to reduce (or eliminate) the sheep numbers everywhere else to the greatest extent possible. That's the plan. It's a reasonable one. And that's better than in years past, when the NMDGF didn't want anything to do with Barbary management, and wished they didn't have to deal with it, or the animals.

 

[jmgraham1986]

IM not a expert, but it looks like something ferrel. The horn structure isn't right for those to be big horns. The curve back and down too soon.

I think it might be a black Hawaiian ram, or some other crazy sheep that you can pay to kill in Texas.

So now the question is.... Since its a non game species, can someone pole-ax it?

 

[mozey]

Based on google images I think Hawaiian Black is good guess. It's hard to tell from the pic whether there is any white patches on them, but another possibility might be corsicans.

 

[stoney]

Prime_Beef,

You are pretty much correct in your above assessment except the fact that units 29/30 is not a trophy quality hunt by any stretch of the imagination. 600 hunters is at least twice as many needed to control the few sheep that exist there. There are huge swaths of that area that is prime habitat and used to have a few Barbs abut not today. Many old time hunters we talked to as well as the local ranchers, said their used to be a few in those areas but not now, with only a stray few coming through on rare occasions.

I have hunted a lot of Barbs, mostly in west Texas and I know Barbs and their habitat, and I think it behooves the Game Dept. to take a hard look at only hunting rams and no females and that will help keep the 600 hunters in the field but they should cut the hunt in half for a couple of years and then start over, killing only males, until such time as they need to start reducing the herds and then they can either get more hunters or shoot everything again.

That's what I would do if I was a NMDGF biologist.

 

[Prime_Beef]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-15 AT 08:34AM (MST)[p]Stoney, your points are well taken. It would be nice if they managed 29/30 more for trophy quality. But I doubt that the DGF is going to either reduce the number of permits or restrict the hunt to rams-only. They already took a hit from license revenue when they went to the draw system, and there's a significant percentage of hunters who don't care whether they shoot a ram or a ewe (a big ewe is excellent table fare, after all!). What we have now is probably as good as it's going to get.

I'm ok with the 600 permits. 29/30 is BIG country, it's a long season, and not every permit holder is going to be in the field at the same time. I've hunted deer several times in either 29 or 30; they used to issue 1,000 tags per hunt in 30, but it was no big trick to get away from the crowds, even opening weekend. I found the same to be true when hunting sheep in 29/30, even before they reinstituted the draw. Most hunters drive around glassing and don't do much hiking!

 

[coryb]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-15 AT 08:05PM (MST)[p]Those sheep are likely on the Rancho de Los Chavez. They are running exotic hunts there consisting mainly of buffalo and yak. Was it on the long straightaway just north of golden before you climb the hill to Madrid? Their ranch is on both sides of the road for most of that stretch.