N
Nim
Guest
Well has anyone heard what is going on about the Boquillas Ranch & area 10, and the what if they don't sign anything this year?
Nim
Nim
AZBuckSnort
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,075
Have been on both the north and south.end of ranch in recent weeks on hunts with no restrictions. Area has been pounded with monsoon rains lately, avoid saturated areas. The tanks needed the rains so it is all good.
In two recent trips saw few antelope, far fewer than on typical scouting forays.
In two recent trips saw few antelope, far fewer than on typical scouting forays.
ClarkW
Active Member
- Messages
- 202
Might check this out, looks like the cowboys found a way to make money off hunters again...
www.huntbigboranch.com
www.huntbigboranch.com
A
athya
Guest
My daughter drew a youth deer tag in Unit 10. There are only 51 tags in the entire unit. Any suggestions to make her hunt successful?
Thanks
Thanks
muleymaniac
Active Member
- Messages
- 385
hunt closer to Williams - lots of deer just outside the suburbs and north of the golf course.
take the road heading out of Williams to the north/west usually see deer along the pipeline road too.
take the road heading out of Williams to the north/west usually see deer along the pipeline road too.
DonMartin
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,077
My question is where is the AZ G&F on this? I thought they were in the middle of negotiations with the Navajo Nation and the cowboys?
I asked the I&E guy in Region III about this last week and the response was, "We haven't heard a thing, guess it is still status quo."
Well now I wonder, surely SOMEBODY in Phx knew this was about to happen and yet did anyone see anything from Department letting sportsmen know about it? I sure didn't...
Personally I'm kinda behind the eight ball here with this news. I got two hunters with October antlerless elk tags already booked and I sure didn't count on having to pony up $400 in guide fees, $60 for each hunter ($120), $60 for my cook and $60 for my friend Jay to go up with me. I try to make these hunts affordable for folks and then this happens. Can't ask them (hunters) to pay for all of this. Guess I'll eat it and reconsider my prices next year when dealing with the Boquillas.
Oh well, we'll see what happens...
Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
I asked the I&E guy in Region III about this last week and the response was, "We haven't heard a thing, guess it is still status quo."
Well now I wonder, surely SOMEBODY in Phx knew this was about to happen and yet did anyone see anything from Department letting sportsmen know about it? I sure didn't...
Personally I'm kinda behind the eight ball here with this news. I got two hunters with October antlerless elk tags already booked and I sure didn't count on having to pony up $400 in guide fees, $60 for each hunter ($120), $60 for my cook and $60 for my friend Jay to go up with me. I try to make these hunts affordable for folks and then this happens. Can't ask them (hunters) to pay for all of this. Guess I'll eat it and reconsider my prices next year when dealing with the Boquillas.
Oh well, we'll see what happens...
Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
I would say don't hunt them on the Bo, just a cow hunt. Unless they want to pay the trespass fee. Also in your contract you may want to add a disclaimer for those fees, that the hunter will be responsible. Of course let them know that up front, but I believe we may start to see this more and more unfortunately.
DonMartin
Very Active Member
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- 2,077
To answer your questions. No the Boquillas is NOT the only place to hunt in Unit 10, but it is by far the BEST IMO. That being said there are other places to hunt that are off the ranch, so that is a consideration.
I will not at this late date, try and pass of these new fees to my hunters. I don't think that is right. However, in the future when it comes to hunting on the Boquillas-- I will have to advise potential clients of the "extra" expenses associated with a hunt there.
This (fee program) doesn't surprise me at all--I new this would happen--sooner or later, and I suspect when all the grumbling is done, sportsmen will "pony up" whatever it costs to hunt there.
I am just wondering about the role that AZ G&F has in this...I know they have some "leverage" even though the ranch is 2/3 private.
Sure has been quiet in Phoenix about this latest development...
I guess I'm going to call and find out what "fees" I am going to pay.
Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
I will not at this late date, try and pass of these new fees to my hunters. I don't think that is right. However, in the future when it comes to hunting on the Boquillas-- I will have to advise potential clients of the "extra" expenses associated with a hunt there.
This (fee program) doesn't surprise me at all--I new this would happen--sooner or later, and I suspect when all the grumbling is done, sportsmen will "pony up" whatever it costs to hunt there.
I am just wondering about the role that AZ G&F has in this...I know they have some "leverage" even though the ranch is 2/3 private.
Sure has been quiet in Phoenix about this latest development...
I guess I'm going to call and find out what "fees" I am going to pay.
Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters
javihammer
Active Member
- Messages
- 135
I am also surprised there was no communication sent from AZGFD before the ranch published the information on the web. I thought this was a partnership. After looking at the web info I had the following thoughts.
? Why does an access management program require a hunt manager? The only service provided by the ranch is access and the maintenance of the roads that provide it. Toll booth qualifications would suffice, a hunt manager is overkill and a waste of the hard earned money the public has to pay to access the ranch.
? Are the Big Bo hunt manager and the other employees of the ranch allowed to receive compensation (cash or otherwise) for information about wildlife on the ranch? I can see a data black market considering no game cams allowed and very limited scouting windows. I think data brokering should be specifically forbidden as part of the access agreement. I am hoping game cams are banned all year long on the ranch and that a third party will be running spot check patrols to ensure this rule is being followed.
? I don't like that the pass needed to access the property is called a ?permit?. I know, it is a minor detail but the less informed may be inclined to think the ranch has control or ownership of the wildlife since hunting tags are also referred to as permits. The current access pass is called a ranch pass, it would be nice if the new thing used the same description.
? I don't like how they claim control and ownership of landlocked State Trust Lands and any improvements made to them. State trust land is owned by the state, just like the wildlife is.
? Will the ranch be open to receive conservation fund monies and what will be the role of AZGFD officers on the property. Does the Boquillas expect the publicly funded AZGFD to enforce restricting access to the publicly owned wildlife (on what may even be publicly owned state trust land)?
? I was under the impression that this wasn?t setup to provide an income stream to private interests, it was meant to defer costs associated with wear and maintenance of hunting on the ranch. Will there be some report published annually that shows how the money collected was actually used for such purposes and details about the vendors and the process for selecting those vendors?
? How are they going to ensure every pass holder has the same unfettered access to the ranch as everyone else? Who at AZGFD will be the point of contact for complaints if the public finds that access is not being provided equally to all pass holders? What are the consequences to the ranch if there is an issue?
If the Boquillas isnt going to be a GREAT partner, the Arizona Game and Fish department should just cut the tags or redefine the boundaries of unit ten. I would even say that they have an obligation to the Arizona hunters to do so.
Ryan
? Why does an access management program require a hunt manager? The only service provided by the ranch is access and the maintenance of the roads that provide it. Toll booth qualifications would suffice, a hunt manager is overkill and a waste of the hard earned money the public has to pay to access the ranch.
? Are the Big Bo hunt manager and the other employees of the ranch allowed to receive compensation (cash or otherwise) for information about wildlife on the ranch? I can see a data black market considering no game cams allowed and very limited scouting windows. I think data brokering should be specifically forbidden as part of the access agreement. I am hoping game cams are banned all year long on the ranch and that a third party will be running spot check patrols to ensure this rule is being followed.
? I don't like that the pass needed to access the property is called a ?permit?. I know, it is a minor detail but the less informed may be inclined to think the ranch has control or ownership of the wildlife since hunting tags are also referred to as permits. The current access pass is called a ranch pass, it would be nice if the new thing used the same description.
? I don't like how they claim control and ownership of landlocked State Trust Lands and any improvements made to them. State trust land is owned by the state, just like the wildlife is.
? Will the ranch be open to receive conservation fund monies and what will be the role of AZGFD officers on the property. Does the Boquillas expect the publicly funded AZGFD to enforce restricting access to the publicly owned wildlife (on what may even be publicly owned state trust land)?
? I was under the impression that this wasn?t setup to provide an income stream to private interests, it was meant to defer costs associated with wear and maintenance of hunting on the ranch. Will there be some report published annually that shows how the money collected was actually used for such purposes and details about the vendors and the process for selecting those vendors?
? How are they going to ensure every pass holder has the same unfettered access to the ranch as everyone else? Who at AZGFD will be the point of contact for complaints if the public finds that access is not being provided equally to all pass holders? What are the consequences to the ranch if there is an issue?
If the Boquillas isnt going to be a GREAT partner, the Arizona Game and Fish department should just cut the tags or redefine the boundaries of unit ten. I would even say that they have an obligation to the Arizona hunters to do so.
Ryan
I stopped hunting unit 10 in 2004 so I really don't have a dog in this fight. I am mostly interested in this because of the precedence it may set around the entire state.
Rule #14 is kind of interesting. They are banning airial scouting? I did not know they controlled the airspace above their ranch? I do not airial scout but I know unit 10 has people that do. I'm afraid to think how they might enforce this rule.
As time goes by, I predict big outfitters like USO outfitters will pay for special treatment. Things such atv/utv usage, blinds, hunting from water holes, shed hunting, blocks of land closed to the public and even airial scouting among other things will be available to a select few who pay for it.
For now, I will sit back listen and watch because after this falls hunts there will probably be some interesting stories.
Good luck to those of you who have unit 10 tags this year.
Rule #14 is kind of interesting. They are banning airial scouting? I did not know they controlled the airspace above their ranch? I do not airial scout but I know unit 10 has people that do. I'm afraid to think how they might enforce this rule.
As time goes by, I predict big outfitters like USO outfitters will pay for special treatment. Things such atv/utv usage, blinds, hunting from water holes, shed hunting, blocks of land closed to the public and even airial scouting among other things will be available to a select few who pay for it.
For now, I will sit back listen and watch because after this falls hunts there will probably be some interesting stories.
Good luck to those of you who have unit 10 tags this year.
Gator
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 18,140
1st step to hell in a basket, The some outfitter will take over running it before long and all public hunters will have to go thru them as I see it. Pay to play will be the rule of the day.
So Will there be any more cleanup days on the ranch.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
So Will there be any more cleanup days on the ranch.
"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
DonMartin
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,077
First all Ryan you made some GREAT POINTS!
Gator, you might remember that about 22 years ago while I was the President of the Mohave Sportsman Club, that I started the annual Boquillas Ranch cleanup.
The agreement made then with the tribe and AZ G&F was that for an annual clean up the ranch by sportsmen the ranch would remain open to hunters--and others-- for access.
Well over the years the numbers of sportsmen and others attending went down, while the permit numbers went up!
One didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see that with such poor attendance by sportsmen to this program that sooner or later the Navajo Nation and/or Cholla would look at that agreement and figure that sportsmen had not lived up to it and would decide to terminate it.
Over the years I pleaded with sportsmen to help us live up to our agreement ( I attended every clean up!) but like I said participation by sportsmen fell off the table.
Everyone had time to hunt when they drew a tag in Unit 10, and with over 2,500 big game tags and unlimited small game and prairie dog hunting, to see 30-50 sportsmen and women show up each year was laughable.
I predicted that this kind of situation we are going to have this year would come. And here it is.
Now do I think that this is the ONLY reason why this has happened? Heck no, lots more things have occurred that have brought us to where we are today.
But you asked about the clean up project so I even though I am no longer on the Board of Directors of the Mohave Sportsman Club, I have been told no way, no how is the club going to do that.
Matter-of-fact last year I was told by now Region III Supervisor Tom Finley that in the future "they" and I guess he meant the tribe or the Cholla guys, wanted to see things like elk jumps installed on fences rather than a clean up.
So the sportsman clean up project is dead--gone forever, and no one has to worry about coming out for those. We all know the Boquillas is the cleanest ranch in northern Arizona, and its not just because of the annual project where we picked up trash, but due to the habits of MOST of those who hunted there and respected the land and those who own.manage it.
So now just buckle down, pull out your wallets and pay for the privilege to hunt there, even though a third of the ranch is State Trust lands.
Don Martin
Past President and Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
Gator, you might remember that about 22 years ago while I was the President of the Mohave Sportsman Club, that I started the annual Boquillas Ranch cleanup.
The agreement made then with the tribe and AZ G&F was that for an annual clean up the ranch by sportsmen the ranch would remain open to hunters--and others-- for access.
Well over the years the numbers of sportsmen and others attending went down, while the permit numbers went up!
One didn't need to be a rocket scientist to see that with such poor attendance by sportsmen to this program that sooner or later the Navajo Nation and/or Cholla would look at that agreement and figure that sportsmen had not lived up to it and would decide to terminate it.
Over the years I pleaded with sportsmen to help us live up to our agreement ( I attended every clean up!) but like I said participation by sportsmen fell off the table.
Everyone had time to hunt when they drew a tag in Unit 10, and with over 2,500 big game tags and unlimited small game and prairie dog hunting, to see 30-50 sportsmen and women show up each year was laughable.
I predicted that this kind of situation we are going to have this year would come. And here it is.
Now do I think that this is the ONLY reason why this has happened? Heck no, lots more things have occurred that have brought us to where we are today.
But you asked about the clean up project so I even though I am no longer on the Board of Directors of the Mohave Sportsman Club, I have been told no way, no how is the club going to do that.
Matter-of-fact last year I was told by now Region III Supervisor Tom Finley that in the future "they" and I guess he meant the tribe or the Cholla guys, wanted to see things like elk jumps installed on fences rather than a clean up.
So the sportsman clean up project is dead--gone forever, and no one has to worry about coming out for those. We all know the Boquillas is the cleanest ranch in northern Arizona, and its not just because of the annual project where we picked up trash, but due to the habits of MOST of those who hunted there and respected the land and those who own.manage it.
So now just buckle down, pull out your wallets and pay for the privilege to hunt there, even though a third of the ranch is State Trust lands.
Don Martin
Past President and Govt Liaison
Mohave Sportsman Club
OutdoorWriter
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 8,340
Big Boquillas Ranch access will include fee
Aug. 6, 2013
Ranch Rules will go into effect on Aug. 15
SELIGMAN, Ariz. -- The Arizona Game and Fish Commission and Department are advising hunters, particularly Unit 10 hunt permit-tag holders, of some decisions made by the Big Boquillas Ranch regarding access to the ranch for the upcoming 2013 fall hunting season. These changes include implementation by the ranch operator of new "Ranch Rules" that charge a $60 recreational impact fee for most adults and govern allowable hunter activities.
The Department has been working diligently to maintain hunting access to private lands on the Big Boquillas Ranch since concerns expressed by the ranch operator and landowner about behavior exhibited by some users of land managed by the ranch led to their questioning continued access in 2012.
At this point there is no formal agreement between the Department, Cholla Livestock LLC, and the Navajo Nation. Cholla Livestock LLC has made the decision to exercise its right to implement Ranch Rules that include a recreational impact fee of $60 per adult for the upcoming hunt season, beginning with the August archery-only pronghorn and deer hunts. The Ranch Rules also address vehicular access, use of blinds, hunting in the vicinity of livestock waters, and other practices related to facilitating hunting on a working ranch. Everyone entering the ranch will be under the same rules and have the same opportunity for access. For more information on the fee and the Ranch Rules, including FAQs and contact information, visit www.huntbigboranch.com.
The Department, Cholla Livestock LLC, and the Navajo Nation -- which is the private landowner for the area -- will continue to work toward a signed agreement into the future that will ensure access is available and that the Ranch Rules remain reasonable for our constituents.
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
Aug. 6, 2013
Ranch Rules will go into effect on Aug. 15
SELIGMAN, Ariz. -- The Arizona Game and Fish Commission and Department are advising hunters, particularly Unit 10 hunt permit-tag holders, of some decisions made by the Big Boquillas Ranch regarding access to the ranch for the upcoming 2013 fall hunting season. These changes include implementation by the ranch operator of new "Ranch Rules" that charge a $60 recreational impact fee for most adults and govern allowable hunter activities.
The Department has been working diligently to maintain hunting access to private lands on the Big Boquillas Ranch since concerns expressed by the ranch operator and landowner about behavior exhibited by some users of land managed by the ranch led to their questioning continued access in 2012.
At this point there is no formal agreement between the Department, Cholla Livestock LLC, and the Navajo Nation. Cholla Livestock LLC has made the decision to exercise its right to implement Ranch Rules that include a recreational impact fee of $60 per adult for the upcoming hunt season, beginning with the August archery-only pronghorn and deer hunts. The Ranch Rules also address vehicular access, use of blinds, hunting in the vicinity of livestock waters, and other practices related to facilitating hunting on a working ranch. Everyone entering the ranch will be under the same rules and have the same opportunity for access. For more information on the fee and the Ranch Rules, including FAQs and contact information, visit www.huntbigboranch.com.
The Department, Cholla Livestock LLC, and the Navajo Nation -- which is the private landowner for the area -- will continue to work toward a signed agreement into the future that will ensure access is available and that the Ranch Rules remain reasonable for our constituents.
TONY MANDILE
How To Hunt Coues Deer
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