ARIZONA BEWARE!

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BuraNut asked me to copy & paste for him since he does not know how to do this yet. It is 5 pages long so will take up space but he is concerned.

Ranching for Wildlife: A Proposal for Arizona

Prepared By: Manuel Nikel-Zueger


Overview

In Arizona, the quantity and quality of wildlife is not optimal. This is the result of many contributing factors, not the least of which is the imbalanced relationship between the rights of private landowners and wildlife, which is managed by the State Game and Fish Department.
Many landowners, hunters, outfitters, and guides believe that a ?Ranching for Wildlife? program similar to those that exist in other western states is a fundamental step towards creating healthier wildlife with better habitat while fully acknowledging and respecting the property rights of private landowners.

Description of the Problem

Landowners, principally ranchers and other agriculturalists, whose livelihoods rely upon the careful management of natural resources, are encumbered in many places by elk, deer (couse deer and mule deer), and/or antelope. For example, an elk consumes a substantial amount of forage, perhaps seventy-five percent the forage a cow consumes. Deer and antelope consume less, but deer, antelope, and elk all eat the same vegetation that cows eat. Therefore each additional big game animal on a ranch reduces (to a varying extent) the number of cattle that can be run on a ranch. In Arizona, this problem has grown considerably because elk populations have grown substantially in the past two decades. Not only have numbers grown, but elk have expanded into more territory.
Consumption of forage is not the only cost wildlife imposes on private property owners. Elk are the most destructive. They often tear down fences, though deer can also, while antelope either go under fences or between the wires. Downed fences have to be repaired, which incurs material and labor costs, and time is spent finding and returning cattle.
Elk and other wildlife also rely on the improvements that ranchers and other landowners provide for their operations, such as water troughs, dirt tanks (which capture run-off rain water), salt, and protein supplements. Wildlife also benefit from the restricted access hunters have on private land, which can encourage the residence of wildlife.
Landowners want to control the access hunters have on their land in order to ensure that the land is respected. Landowners attempt to minimize unnecessary roads, trash, and even the occasional dead cow or calf killing. In addition, landowners are legitimately concerned about preventing any easements by prescription, which limit the landowner?s property rights and ability to be a steward of the land. Stricter access controls on private lands are largely the result of increased human populations in the state, and increased hunting pressure, both of which have increased trespassing.
Unfortunately, the cost that wildlife, especially big game wildlife, imposes on landowners does not create incentives for progressive steps to manage for wildlife, despite the fact that landowners enjoy wildlife. This is because private landowners have little recourse to the benefits that wildlife could otherwise provide. The benefits of seeing big game wildlife or charging access fees is too small relative to the costs wildlife impose. In fact, Arizona is the only western state where landowners do not receive any form of compensation for damages caused by wildlife.
Making matters worse is that the quality of management provided by the State?s Game and Fish Department is less than satisfying. This view is not only held by private landowners but also by many hunters. Landowners complain about working with Game and Fish, noting generally that most efforts are a waste of time. Many landowners are wary about dealing with the agency because most grants for habitat improvements or other infrastructure improvements that would benefit wildlife are contingent on Game and Fish obtaining public access. With respect to big game hunters, they are given only a short time frame during which they can hunt. Short seasons also mean that hunters are out at the same time, and if they have done their scouting, hunter densities in an area can be high, leading to less enjoyable and less successful hunting experiences. High densities of hunters can also lead to a greater negative impact on the natural resources. In all, management of our wildlife and natural resources, as well as hunting experiences, can be improved.
Some argue that private landowners exercise their private property rights by restricting access while offering hunters either access for a fee and/or guided hunts for a fee. While private property owners certainly can (and some do) receive revenues from such measures, landowners are merely trying to capitalize on their resources in order to stay in business. That landowners are due compensation for damages caused by wildlife is an issue distinct from a landowner?s right to charge access fees on or through private lands. Revenues from access or guided hunt fees never outweigh the costs of damages.
At the heart of this issue is the question of the bundle of rights that belong to private property with respect to wildlife. Do landowners have any right to compensation for the losses they incur as a result of damage done and forage consumed by wildlife, principally big game such as elk, deer, and antelope? The State of Arizona receives all revenues from hunting whereas private landowners go empty-handed while paying many of the costs of providing for wildlife by way of land, forage, water, roads, and other infrastructure. Private Landowners should share in the revenues. Understanding that incentives matter, if private property owners were to have a stake in the hunting industry, they would certainly manage their ranches for both cattle and wildlife.

Ranching for Wildlife: The Idea

A certain number of hunting tags for all big game species that are found on a ranch are given to the ranch (landowner) at the price for which the hunter would purchase them from the state if he had drawn a tag. These tags are completely transferable and saleable. This is a form of compensation to the landowner which gives him a definitive stake in managing the ranch in a way that incorporates wildlife as an essential part of the mix. A Ranching for Wildlife program in Arizona must be an explicit recognition of the right a landowner has to compensation for damages, especially since there is no such recognition in Arizona.
In order to make this program acceptable to the public and to the State Game and Fish Department, the landowner must participate in a ?Wildlife Management Plan? that is specific to the ranch. Annual review by a board comprised of the landowner, a representative from the Game and Fish and an independent third party (perhaps by a qualified professional from the University of Arizona Extension Service) will review progress towards the implementation of the management plan and its effectiveness. In addition, a proportion of the tags allocated to the landowner will be allotted as a public access tag on the ranch.


The Pilot Program

Before a wide-scale program is implemented, a pilot program should be adopted in order for the State to familiarize itself with the program and to identify ways in which the program can be improved. A pilot program would comprise several ranches which are identified as prime candidates with respect to certain criteria such as ranch size and elk populations. The duration of the pilot program is negotiable but a three year trial would allow sufficient time to judge the effectiveness of implementing the program, as well as observing initial results. With this approach, changes could be considered and attempted, perhaps even by adding one or two additional ranches to the program. The pilot program could also be extended an additional year or two if it is believed that more time is needed to make the process more effective. The pilot program would not exceed five years before the policies and procedures become final.

Preliminary Policies and Procedures

? A landowner must have at least 5,000 acres of private land in order to participate.

? Landowners that border one another, none of which own 5,000 acres, can submit an application (if their combined private lands are at least 5,000 acres) that their lands be managed together in one management plan.

? A task force comprised of two Game and Fish Department personnel, two eligible landowners or their representatives, and two University of Arizona Extension Service personnel will draw up and agree on norms, by majority vote, for the application procedure and the method of scientific estimation of big game wildlife populations.

? Each aspiring participant must file an application with the State Game and Fish Department that includes legal description of all participating lands and adequate maps that indicate the topography and the borders of the participating lands.


? The application must include scientific estimates of all big game wildlife that resides on the applicant's lands. The method of estimation approved by the task force must be used by all participants in the program.

? Upon approval of the application, a wildlife management plan that specifies the landowner?s short term and long term objectives and the actions that will be taken to achieve those objectives must be submitted.

? State and federal lands to which a landowner has a lease can be included in the landowner?s ?Wildlife Management Plan.? (Those lands, however, cannot be counted towards the 5,000 acres of private land required for participation.)

? Management of state and federal lands in the Ranching for Wildlife program does not in any way prevent the public from accessing those lands to which they have legal access.

? Upon approval of the wildlife management plan, the applicant will receive a license for the area described in the management plan.

? Licenses are valid for five years. Landowners participating in the pilot program will be licensed throughout the term of the pilot program. As the maximum possible length of the pilot program is five years, all pilot program participants must reapply at the conclusion of the pilot program.

? The number of transferable tags allocated to a landowner for each big game species (antelope, deer, and elk) will be calculated with respect to the number of acres of private property and the number of animals that use the private lands. Specific means of calculating tag numbers will be negotiated by the task force and will be subject to alteration during the pilot program. Because of the nature of transferable wildlife tags and each management plan, all participating landowners will have ranch specific harvests. In other words, there should be some measure of flexibility for setting tag numbers, given varying management objectives.

? Licensed landowners will have a one hundred day season window for all hunts on their private lands and the lands they lease. Flexible season dates allow landowners the necessary time to harvest a specific amount of animals while ensuring high quality hunts and decreased hunting pressure.

? The landowner will allocate one in ten of his or her transferable wildlife tags per specie for a public access lottery. (For example, if a particular landowner is only allocated five tags a year, in this case, the ranch specific public access tag would be granted every second year.) Ranch specific public access tags, like any other tag from a landowner are usable only on the landowner?s lands, subject to the norms delineated in the management plan.

? The Arizona State Game and Fish Department will be responsible for a lottery sale of ranch specific public access tags for each landowner. The monies collected from the lottery are payable to the landowner, with the exception of the Arizona State Game and Fish Department's administrative costs.

? When a hunter draws a ranch specific public access tag from the lottery, that hunter must wait three years before purchasing another ticket for the same management area.

? Only Arizona residents may participate in drawing ranch specific public access tags. The price per ticket will be $20 and the maximum number of tickets that can be bought per person is 5. Tags that are won are not transferable.

? A hunter that has purchased a transferable tag or won a ranch specific public access tag can hunt with rifles, bows, and muzzleloaders at any time during a landowner?s approved season dates.

? Participating landowners will undergo a performance review annually by a review board, which is comprised of one Game and Fish Department personnel, the landowner or his or her representative and one University of Arizona Extension Service personnel. Landowners whose management plans include state and/or federal lands will invite one official from the respective departments to participate in the review.

? Landowners are solely responsible for the implementation of the objectives enumerated in their specific management plans.

? Failure to comply with the stated objectives in their management plans may result in the loss of the landowner?s transferable wildlife tags.

? The final decision to terminate any landowner?s wildlife management plan will not be given to the review board. The review board may formally declare that a landowner?s plan is suspect to termination, at which time a larger board will make a final decision. This larger board will comprise of participating landowners, two AG&F personnel, two State Land Department personnel, and two UA Extension Service personnel. Decisions are reached by simple majority.

? A landowner may terminate his or her participation in the Ranching for Wildlife program with written notification to the Arizona State Game and Fish Department and the return of his or her license. Transferable tags still held by the landowner must be returned.
 
THAT IS ALL B.S. ALL THERE TRING TO DO IS GET MORE MONEY. THERE NOT HELPING THE WILDLIFE AT ALL,AND ON TOP OF THAT THERE WILL END UP BEING MORE HUNTERS IN EVERY UNIT,BECAUSE ALL THE PRIVATE LAND THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO HUNT ON. I MEANT MORE PEOPLE IN A CERTAIN AREA INSTEAD OF BEING SPREAD OUT MORE. JUST B.S.
 
This is the kind of issue that will hurt hunting for the common man even more since the USO travisty. Tag prices for residents and non residents alike next year will be going north as a result of this USO action. Couple this with the landowners being able to sell tags to outfitters for resale to the highest bidder and more opportunities to hunt are lost to the common man. These tags will be part of the game management numbers factored into the total tag allotment for each unit thereby reducing the number of tags available in the draw to all that apply. DON"T get sucked in to believing this crap about how it will be good for us all. The private landowners in this state usually have grazing leases on public land to supplemnet the forage for their herds. These leases are given to them at below bargain basement rates and as such need to be factored into the equation. MOST of the ranchers in AZ raising livestock for a living utilize this program without these grazing rights on PUBLIC Land most of these concerns would have to reduce their numbers to a point that it would be unprofitable to continue making a living in this fashion. There still are some large ranches that could do without this program and in those cases where all the land is private I would like to see the AZ. Game and fish relocate the game animals to other parts of the state where all hunters could benefit or cut a deal with the ranches to allow hunters to gain access at a reasonable trespass fee not to exceed $200.00 per legal hunter to compensate them for all the so called damage. This money is paid directly to the rancher and not the outfitter to avoid the markup game at the hunters expense. TAULMAN is famous for this little game to help supplement his income not to mention selling permits on the internet to the highest bidder.
THE STATE OWNS THE ANIMALS AND SHOULD MAINTAIN CONTROL OF THEM AND THEIR HUNTING OR RELOCATION TO BENEFIT ALL HUNTERS. IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A LIVING AT RANCHING FINE DO SO AND DON'T ASK US TO SUPPLEMENT YOUR LIVESTYLE BY FURNISHING YOU MORE ANIMALS THAT YOU CAN SELL TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER. You don't own those deer and elk any more than we own your livestock. To really be fair about it why should one guy get the opportunity to hunt these animals without having to go through the drawing process just like everyone else. After all the judge did say that we were to give permits out in less discriminatory fashion and we wouldn't want to go against the judges ruling now would we MR. Taulman. Landowner Tags to the highest bidder doesn't appear to satisfy the judges intent to be fair to all concerned now does it? But then equality wasn't really what you were after with your lawsuit now was it.
 
I personally think that this is a good plan, except for allowing the Public Allotments be used in the final permit count.

We have this program in Utah and it does work. Is it perfect? No. But it does allow the public to draw tags and access private lands which many times provide a good experience. I am not fully aware of all Arizona habitat, but here in Utah much of the transitional and winter ranges are privatley held. With the cost of ground rising and the farm income falling, many ranches are being sold and developed. This impacts the game that lives on both public and private lands. The CWMU (RFW) programs have helped to supplement the income necessary to maintian viable ranches which house the state's wildlife. Permits should be given with keeping the welfare of the herds in mind.

I think that the ranchers should be compensated for the public's animal's use of their ranch. This is easily done by giving a few permits to ranchers. I have participated in some great hunts that were drawn on these private ranches.
 
2_point, IMO the idea that ranchers in AZ have not been "compensated" is BS. For years, the Game and Fish has had a program in place which will fund habitat improvement projects, road and water repairs, etc. In return, G&F requires the ranch to allow hunter access. So why would they want landowner tags? Could it be GREED???? No offense, but our elk are going to bring a much higher price than your Utah animals. These ranchers smell money, and I smell something worse.

Ranchers always toss out this crap about compensation, and private property rights. Poor ranchers, they get enormous, somtimes total federal tax relief. Ranchers also get state grazing leases from the taxpayer at the rate of $3.95 per acre PER YEAR? Talk about compensation! Problem is, once they get the lease, they consider it part of their private property and want to lock it all up, ie. X-1, ORO, Wilson's, Blair's, Boquillas. At what point did state trust land stop being a public holding? That's what the state land department says, just look at their website. We've apparently already lost that battle.

AZ hunters better wake up, unite and fight back, or your prime spots will be gone unless you can cough up thousands or tens of thousands for the tag. Ranchers have some very well funded and carefully thought out plans in place to force this through the legislative process.

My suggestions;

1. Research the author of this paper, he has an "interesting" past. He's related to an AZ rancher, what a coincidence!
2. Ask the commission why they haven't addressed this publicly, since we now know they've been aware of this for at least 6 months. Is this going to be another Taulman-like surprise for us right before the next tag draw?
3. Go to campaignmoney.com and see how many ranchers donated large sums of money to various AZ politicians. Very revealing.
4. Start a sportsman's legal fund to fight for access to public land, and start buying up grazing leases in prime areas. Some environmentalists are buying up leases to "protect" riparian areas in the southern part of AZ, so why not "protect" hunter access?

This is all about money, and we had better stop it now or we'll never get this rat back in it's cage.
 
The main problem with this 2-point is that price will be determined by trophy quality just like that little ranch in Utah called the Paunsaugunt where the rancher charges fees most hunters can't afford. Times and ways of life are a changing in this country and ranchers need to find ways to make money just like every other business when the market changes. We don't supplement all the small business men that employ people when their business start to fail and we shouldn't continue to supplement ranching in the same fashion over and above the grazing rights. If they can't make a go of it they can find another line of work just like the rest of us. They can sell their ranches and lose the grazing rights that should revert back to the public and the state can maintain the waterholes and such in their game management plans. Most of this habitat in AZ will not be bought by developers cause the areas are usually more remote but some areas are in desirable locations. And don't tell me I don't understand my grandfather and grandmother drove 60 miles to work each day to work a job in the city just because our crops were damaged by rain to make ends meet on our farm. I was raised on a farm and I know all too well how tight money can be in that type of business. There are thousands of Americans being laid off every month as their jobs are out sourced or their companies fail and they must seek other employment and learn new skills to support themselves. Ranching is a great way of life and a hard way to make a living but it is a business pure and simple. The game animals are not an asset of the ranches in AZ. and as such should not be utilized as a subsidy. This may sound a little harsh and I apologize for that but what makes that rancher any better than that guy working at the super market or that factory worker or that nurse that don't have the right to sell off an elk or a deer annually to help supplement their income since they pay taxes here as well and help subsidize the rancher. These are the same issues that ranchers have faced out here for decades and never seemed to complain about it until recently because in those times nobody would listen. It's just now with outfitters like Taulman dangling $$ signs in front of them has it become such a large issue across the nation. Believe me if we were to change the grazing rights laws to allow hunter access or forgo being able to lease the forage not a peep would be heard from these boys because they really know how good they have it on this issue. It's Taulmans greed and that of a few others that's promoting this issue in this state and many others. One thing I would like to point out that if they think they are going to deny access to win the argument and allow hunting by outfits like Taulmans they may be in for a shock. The AZ G & F sets the boundries on the legal hunting units as outlined by the law and all they would have to do would be to exclude those ranches from the legally huntable areas in the state and that would put an end to this nonsense. If hunting goes on they would be in violation of the law and as such could be prosecuted. Things are never quite as simple as they seem. LANDOWNER TAGS ARE NOT A VIABLE OPTION ...IMO.
 
I don't know how "well" this program works in all of Utah. Why don't you ask the residents of southern Utah how they like the program in regards to the CWMU in the Paunsaugunt hammering the bucks in the velvet during early September.

This has been coming and I have posted it here and on the Bowsite.com AZ board. These guys are motivated and they will not take no for an answer. It's a tragedy if it comes to pass. Why don't we ask these landowners what's going to happen to the guy who "wins the lottery"? Think he or she is going to get to hunt the ranch as they please, unfettered by a ranch guide, and when they want to hunt? No way, as a landowner already told me personally, that lucky winner of the tag is "going to pay, just not as much and will hunt when and with who I say." Think the landowners are going to allow the AZG&F 24/7 access to make sure things are on the up and up on the program ranches? Not according to the landowner I talked to, they want no part of the AZG&F on their property. A lot of this has come about because of an antagonistic relationship between "fee-man mentality landowners" and their new "outfitter buddies" & the AZG&F.

Make no mistake, this has been brought on by greedy outfitters, guides, and wannabe videographers whispering into the ears of their new landowner "buddies" about how much money they could make if they just partner up with them and let them handle the hunting on their properties. It's pathetic, like a scene out of a bad movie where old timer real estate agents are trying to sell swamp lands to senior citizens just to feather their pockets with another cash score.

There are ways to solve this problem that do not include the employment of the outfitter industry and the pimping of trophy bull elk, antelope, and mule deer. You guys that have egged this on ought to stick to your day jobs and quit trying to fatten your wallets at the expense of the general public hunter. Heck, if you put as much passion into your real jobs you wouldn't need to keep seeking market share from the hunting industry you dream of cutting a bigger slice from.
 
My major problem with it is most of the land in arizona that the ranchers are using is lease land blm or az trust land which a lot of ranchers in areas in Norhern AZ think they own it and this is not the case. But they will try to run you off checker borded land. Land that in most cases we have every right to be on. I know a lot of ranchers and most would let you right on if you asked. The ones that will not are usually the ones that are trying to kick you off checker borded land that doesnt belong to them. There are vary few ranchs in Arizona that are owned out right buy a ranch with out leasing the majority of the land from state of arizona or the blm. I can only think of 3 of any size that would matter. there are probably some mexican land grants down south that I dont know of but why pay a rancher for rights on blm or state trust land when its ours to beginn with sounds fishy as hell to me. I think what they ought to do is if someone gets drawn for an area goes in that area and if the ranchers give them any crap take there lease on the spot and then we would not have any more problems in that are.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-14-04 AT 06:31PM (MST)[p]I'll try to address a few points expressed toward me.

-I said most CWMUs (private) do a good job. Not all. I don't believe the Alton (pauns) unit does a good job, but many do.

-Whoever beleives that Utah's elk herd is much inferior to Arizona's is poorly mistaken. Both states produce great bull, mainly off PUBLIC lands.

-Ranchers should be compensated by more than a guzzler or a bulldozer down a road. Elk eat grasses on lands owned by a private citizen. The State owns the elk. The rancher owns the grass. Both should be able to profit from the Renewable Resource (elk, game).

-The notion that a rancher needs to find other ways to make money is exactly what we are discussing. There are only a few ways for a rancher to profit from his land. 1-raise crops, 2-raise livestock, 3-Sell the land to developers. The first 2 options are effected by wildlife consuming the resource. The 3rd option is what you see outside Pheonix, and your other AZ cities which are growing and consuming the land and THUS the wildlife which resides there. Maybe that rancher wouldn't have sold that habitat if he could have received a few tags to sell to pay the bills.

-USO sucks. But that doesn't mean the 4th generation rancher who is trying to keep his ranch should be penalized.

-The notion that private land owners should be obligated to allow hunters on to hunt is absurd as someone opening the gate to your backyard and making themselves at home to view the dove roosting in your palm tree.

I knew I'd get some flack from my post, but sometimes it is good to see all sides of the issue.

One more question: How is giving ranchers a part of what they produce more Greedy than the proposed NonRes fess of $1-2,000 for tags????
 
Most of the ranchers do not own the property its least even 4th generation ranchers lease the property from AZ trust and BLM which is public property. What is the reason you would pay someone to hunt on what is already publicly owned land. I will take donations if you want to send them to hunt some of the national forest that I think of as my area and I will take as many tags as you will talk them into giving me. The game and fish will work with those poor ranchers giveing extra tags to thin the herd out but this will not work if they lock the gates to the areas they want thinned out. The game and fish in Az as far as I know do not want pay for trophys in AZ. that you can do on a Indian res if they want less elk on there property let them work with the game and fish. I think yes you will get flack on pay for tags ideas here in arizona I would prefer to see the livestock guys handing out more violations for overgrazing areas even private property there is a rancher in my area of Arizona that we call the dune maker and for good reason when he is done grazing the land you could play golf on his property and never lose a golf ball no grass no brush nothing but sand. on your third point you have you listed sell the property well you cannot sell what you dont own its leased.
 
JT,
Go back and read the first line of my first post. I DO NOT agree that public allotments (land) should be used in determining the number of tags given. Only the 5,000+ acre privatley held land should qualify, as is stated in proposal.

I don't know how AZ leases their State lands, but here in Utah the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources PAYS for the hunting rights on state owned lands. Sportsman For Fish and Wildlife also help in funding the $$$$ to lease the right for the public to hunt on State Owned Trust Lands. I have NO idea if the same procedures are followed in AZ, but maybe the AZGFD should stick up for hunters a little more. Where I am from there are serious penalties for posting public ground as private.

Just some things to think about.
 
>-The notion that private land owners
>should be obligated to allow
>hunters on to hunt is
>absurd as someone opening the
>gate to your backyard and
>making themselves at home to
>view the dove roosting in
>your palm tree.

This is the same argument some ranchers try to use. We're not talking about private land. The vast majority of ranches in Northern AZ are a checkerboard of private and public state trust or BLM land. The problem with this argument is that they only own a portion of the land, but they want the ability to lock the whole thing up and charge whatever they can get for a tag. Can you imagine how much a unit 9 or 10 landowner elk tag will cost? There are always guys willing to pay 6 figures or more for the auction tag each year, and these ranchers know it.
 
The problem is not the posting of public land it is that the outfitters tell public hunters the land is private when it ain't. I ran into this in New Mexico and it will happen here. I wrote the lobbyist at AZ game and fish and put it straight. If they don't think hunters will become a voting block just keep letting this outfitter/landowner crap go. We need to push the political power buttons. We can start by voting Napolitano out and making it clear that we will do the same if the next Gov doesn't force Game and Fish to manage for the citizens of this state. If it comes down to a political war between outfitters and landowners vs the masses I bet the ranchers will not like the outcome. We have supported them in the past.
 
duane shroufe and the azgfd commissioner need to just quit and turn game management over to taulman. oh wait, they already have. the bigger pieces of private land in Az. are all part of the ol' checkerboard railroad land. one section public, one section private. the public land gets landlocked by the private, so the private landowner controls the public land. vast tracts of land this way. you utah boys can say what you want, this ain't a good deal. it ain't about game management. it's about rich guys with all kindsa money wanting more. thses huge land tracts ain't owned by cowboys or ol' time ranchers. they're owned by billionares and big coorporations. you guys need to wake up and look at the whole picture. and the whole picture years down the road. once you give up anything, you ain't gettin' it back. it's time to fight and fight hard. it's about control and money. not game management. with Arizona's open range laws, if a ranchers cow get in my garden, it's up to me to fence it out. the way i look at it, if "my" elk get in their pasture, it's up to them to fence them out. i was raised on a ranch. cowpunching has always been a part of my life. so has hunting. this makes me sick. more money for taulman, less permits for the residents of Az. all you guys out chasing elk in the late hunts this weekend need to keep this in mind when you run across a uso guide.
 
If the elk problem was SO bad for some of these fella's there would be big ass neon signs and welcome mats rather than locked gates and "No Hunting" signs. So there is no doubt this is all about money. I don't think Jimmmy's 5,000ac Cattle Emporium would be pushing so hard if the cost of their land leases went up to pay for the damage those pesky little bovines are doing to BLM and state trust lands.
 
In my opinion, it will be a sad day for Arizona sportsmen when any program remotely similar to Utah's "Cooperative Wildlife Management" program goes into effect. Though a sound idea, politics and greed eventually put wildlife management in the back seat.
During "the pitch" lobbyists will try and convince Arizona legislators/residents that such a program will be good for wildlife. Unfortunately, easy paychecks will become the priority.
If an Arizona resident, I would dig in my heels and do everything in my power to put a stop to this. It's nothing but a wad of troubles . . .
I don't hold George T. and company in the highest regards, but I assure you he is not the only player in the coup. I suggest you do some serious research as to whom seriously supports such an idea and cut off any financial support you might be indirectly and unknowingly supplying. Some "bigwigs" want a larger portion of the pie. If your paying for their products, your supporting the effort . . .
 
IM thinking the Boquillas probably has some thoughts on this .. As far as Im concerned they can HAVE THE DAM PLACE. I havn't hunted the Ranch since i was 17 went there this past weekend to help a buddy and I promised it would be another very long stretch before I go back. Like someone said its checkerboard land and they should be thanking us for allowing them to graze on it since they have attitudes. Im all for the rancher dont get me wrong but they own the cows we own the land as a collective whole except the deeded acreage and the state owns the wildlife. I dont care too much because the way I look at it when they privatize my state Im gonna forgo the applying for a tag and just hunt when i feel like it.
Bugler
 
Remember prop 200? All the politicians and lawyers fought it and said the sky would fall. Well, it passed big time. I bet if we got a ballot initiative written and positioned it against the sale and financial gain from game animals it would pass by a huge margin. The non-hunting community would be made aware that deer and elk were being sold to the highest bidders. Not your traditional image of the family hunter. It would step on Game&Fish, landowners and outfitters. If you earn a living guiding and outfitting that is just too bad. Go talk to Taulman and kick his butt for starting this. I am for the public forcing the solution which would mandate that the state defend the initiative in all courts. JMO.
 
Bring it on Glen! Unfortunately the guide and outfitters lobby hold the most power with G&F because they are the most vocal. Its time for the people to take back their rights to hunting opportunities away from these clowns!
 
I'll tell you what. I agree with alot of the posts above. CWMU's here in Utah have, in my opinion, helped no one but the landowners and the rich. The average hunter has or never will be fully included in the whole scheme of the CWMU system. I hate to see this crap happening in other states especially Arizona. Arizona residents dig in your heels as stated above and stop this before it happens. If any of you know any websites besides the azgfd.com in which to make comments please post them and I will hound them to death too. Just a non-resident hating to see this crap spread to Arizona. That's all.
 

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