Arizona sheep question
- Thread starter bschnoor
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C
couesfever
Guest
Of course it worth applying. I believe that the 20% works the same. There is always going to be hunters drawn with less than max. It also depends on what units you want to hunt also. I'm a resident and drew with 4 points. We also guide for bighorns in AZ.
H
huntin100
Guest
Just wondering the same thing. With few permits. Does a non-resident with only afew points have a chance to draw? Even if it's a slim chance. Thanks, Greg
B
bullwidgeon
Guest
Nope,
Dont put in. Just buy the bonus point till you are in the max pool.
Bret M.
Dont put in. Just buy the bonus point till you are in the max pool.
Bret M.
Well, it sure looks like the same deal, the 10% nonresident cap should fill in the max points round, but the cost of applying is the same, so why not give it a try? They have screwed up the draw before, and can do it again. That might be your best hope. Points only should be if you really can not hunt this year for some very good reason. They should come back next year with an additional constraint, like only 1/2 of the nonresident 10% cap can come in the max points draw.
Sorry, I just downloaded and read the regulations. They say that no more than 20%, rounded down per hunt number go to the 20% draw. Plus no more than 10% total can go to nonresidents. There are 93 sheep tags, nonresidents can get 9. Only sheep hunts with 5 or more tags have a tag that goes to this, 6 total. Probabally about 1/2 will go to nonresidents, perhaps leaving 6 sheep tags left for the next round after the 20% max points round.
H
huntin100
Guest
Thanks for the info EF. Good luck in the draws.
RamDreamer
Active Member
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Did you read the "wonderful" news in the regs about the sheep tags next year?
You'll notice on page 8 of the regs that this year the application fee is $5 and the tag fees are $195 for a resident and $1,000 for a non-resident.
Then you go to page 9 and get the bad news for next year. The application fee goes to $7.50 and the tag fees go to $265 for a resident and $1,400 for a non-resident.
Remember, of course, that the legislatively approved ceilings on these tags are $335 for residents and $3,000 for non-residents. So I sure wouldn't expect the increases to stop after next year.
You'll notice on page 8 of the regs that this year the application fee is $5 and the tag fees are $195 for a resident and $1,000 for a non-resident.
Then you go to page 9 and get the bad news for next year. The application fee goes to $7.50 and the tag fees go to $265 for a resident and $1,400 for a non-resident.
Remember, of course, that the legislatively approved ceilings on these tags are $335 for residents and $3,000 for non-residents. So I sure wouldn't expect the increases to stop after next year.
RamDreamer
Active Member
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- 426
MNHunter,
Yep, you're right. I forgot to include that little nugget of joy.
Since I won't be able to apply for Sheep and Goat in Colorado for 5 years now, I guess those $ will get moved over to Arizona to cover the increases.
Yep, you're right. I forgot to include that little nugget of joy.
Since I won't be able to apply for Sheep and Goat in Colorado for 5 years now, I guess those $ will get moved over to Arizona to cover the increases.
Add up the application and license fees for the average number of years to draw a tag, and the NM or UT tags are much cheaper, because of the much lower $5 0r $6 application fee. AZ tags really are not cheap, figuring in the number of licenses you have to buy to draw, on average. You could buy 50 licenses and probabally still will not draw. Most guys will never draw.
RamDreamer
Active Member
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- 426
Yep. I paid that $3K in NM in 2004 and would love to be able to do it again (and maybe will someday with a Rocky).
M
MBool
Guest
Don?t shoot the messenger! Also, I don't want anyone thinking I'm whining, I've already had the good fortune of taking an Arizona desert sheep; these changes don't effect me personally.
Nonresident and residents alike need to review the changes that just went into effect. The sheep draw does NOT work the same as the draw for elk and deer. The 20% of the tags that goes to max bonus point holders is NOT calculated by hunt unit.
There are going to be many folks that effectively do not have any opportunity to draw a sheep tag. If one looks closely at the regulations (these can be downloaded from the AZ Game and Fish website) the rules are clear. On page 62, R12-4-114 can be found. In section C.2.a the rule states ?The Department shall reserve a maximum of 20% of the hunt permit tags for all hunt numbers combined statewide for bighorn sheep and buffalo to issue to individuals that have bonus points.? (These go to folks with the maximum bonus points). Currently there are 452 people that have the maximum bonus points (17 points); many of these are nonresidents. To further complicate the situation, nonresidents can only draw up to 10% of the available permits. This year there are 93 sheep permits in Arizona. That means that before the general draw occurs a special draw will be held for the people with maximum bonus points. 18 permits (or 20% of the 93) will be issued in the ?bonus point pass pool? to the people with max points. It's quite likely that the 10% limit (or 9 permits) for nonresidents will be issued during this part of the draw. It's also safe to assume that the folks with maximum points will most likely be choosing the tags from the best units. Once the ?max bonus point pool? tags have been issued the remaining 80% will be issued through the regular draw.
A couple of things are clear to me. First, if a nonresident isn't in the max bonus point pool they effectively have no chance to draw a permit. For the sake of argument, if all things remain the same and an average of 9 permits are issued to nonresidents each year, and, say half of the 452 max point holders are nonresidents (I don't know what the exact make up is), it will take 25 years to get through the top pool. Clearly anyone that is not in the top couple of bonus point pools will never draw in their lifetime.
Second, the residents that are not in the max bonus point pool may have an opportunity to draw one of the remaining 80% tags. However, they will never have a chance to draw a tag in one of the better units. Clearly the people in the max pool will consume the better tags with the 20% pool. Effectively any kids, new hunters, new residents, or all of the people that have been applying for many years but are not in the top bonus point pools will never have a chance at the tags in the better units.
I'm not sure what the best answer is to this problem. I firmly believe that the guys that have been putting in for a long time deserve some kind of preference. However, I also believe that everyone else should not be effectively excluded from the draw, or in the case of residents, never even have a chance to draw the better units.
Nonresident and residents alike need to review the changes that just went into effect. The sheep draw does NOT work the same as the draw for elk and deer. The 20% of the tags that goes to max bonus point holders is NOT calculated by hunt unit.
There are going to be many folks that effectively do not have any opportunity to draw a sheep tag. If one looks closely at the regulations (these can be downloaded from the AZ Game and Fish website) the rules are clear. On page 62, R12-4-114 can be found. In section C.2.a the rule states ?The Department shall reserve a maximum of 20% of the hunt permit tags for all hunt numbers combined statewide for bighorn sheep and buffalo to issue to individuals that have bonus points.? (These go to folks with the maximum bonus points). Currently there are 452 people that have the maximum bonus points (17 points); many of these are nonresidents. To further complicate the situation, nonresidents can only draw up to 10% of the available permits. This year there are 93 sheep permits in Arizona. That means that before the general draw occurs a special draw will be held for the people with maximum bonus points. 18 permits (or 20% of the 93) will be issued in the ?bonus point pass pool? to the people with max points. It's quite likely that the 10% limit (or 9 permits) for nonresidents will be issued during this part of the draw. It's also safe to assume that the folks with maximum points will most likely be choosing the tags from the best units. Once the ?max bonus point pool? tags have been issued the remaining 80% will be issued through the regular draw.
A couple of things are clear to me. First, if a nonresident isn't in the max bonus point pool they effectively have no chance to draw a permit. For the sake of argument, if all things remain the same and an average of 9 permits are issued to nonresidents each year, and, say half of the 452 max point holders are nonresidents (I don't know what the exact make up is), it will take 25 years to get through the top pool. Clearly anyone that is not in the top couple of bonus point pools will never draw in their lifetime.
Second, the residents that are not in the max bonus point pool may have an opportunity to draw one of the remaining 80% tags. However, they will never have a chance to draw a tag in one of the better units. Clearly the people in the max pool will consume the better tags with the 20% pool. Effectively any kids, new hunters, new residents, or all of the people that have been applying for many years but are not in the top bonus point pools will never have a chance at the tags in the better units.
I'm not sure what the best answer is to this problem. I firmly believe that the guys that have been putting in for a long time deserve some kind of preference. However, I also believe that everyone else should not be effectively excluded from the draw, or in the case of residents, never even have a chance to draw the better units.
Thanks. Like I said, the thing I hate worst about points is that systems change yearly, yet points are a long time deal. I bet they will change the system, at least put an additional constraint that no more than 1/2 of the 10% nonresident quota can come from the top pool draw. Dropout rates will be higher than the tag draw rates. People get too old, die, miss draws, etc. What do you do? I still have to apply. I am in the top deer pool, and lucked out on an early bull tag. I still figure on 30+ years before I get too old. Likely I will not get the sheep tag, but if I do not stay in, I might regret it.
I
IAhunter
Guest
I guarantee you only one thing in regards to Arizona's draw. If you don't put in, you ain't going. Strange things have happened, and will probably continue to happen. I know someone who has drawn bull elk tags the last three years!
