AZ Elk Application?

Joe2Kool · Dec 20, 2016

When does the elk application period start? It's probably on the AZG&F website, but my computing disabilities prevented me from finding it!!

bonecollector777 · Dec 20, 2016

Online usually isn't til mid January. Regs out early January

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 21, 2016

Elk/Pronghorn regs are available on the AZ website.

Different subject but does anybody have access to the 2015 draw data? I'm very interested in a 3A/3C archery elk tag and I'll be going into the draw with 15 NR points. I think I'm good but not positive.

thanks

Robert

Blank · Dec 21, 2016

Go on the website and look up the 2015 and 2016 Hunt Arizona reports for everything you want to know.

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 21, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-16 AT 06:14PM (MST)[p]Thanks but I don't believe the detailed info is available on their website. At least I've never found it in the past. I'm looking for info on last year's applicants and the number of points they had to see if I'd make the bonus pass (assuming it stays similar).

Robert

CouesFanatic · Dec 21, 2016

Look here: https://www.azgfd.com/hunting/draw/BonusPointProcess

bonecollector777 · Dec 21, 2016

I have all the reports. 15 points will get you a tag. Last year guys with 11 points Drew in the bonus pass. Not all but some. Just be careful not to apply for any other choices besides that or you will draw that other hunt if it takes less points.

sagebrush · Dec 21, 2016

Your first choice will be considered before your second choice regardless of the number of points it takes to draw.

"You can fly a helicopter to the top of Everest and say you've been there. The problem with that is you were an a$$hole when you started and you're still an a$$hole when you get back.
Its the climb that makes you a different person". - Yvon Chouinard

creed · Dec 21, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-16 AT 06:02AM (MST)[p]>Your first choice will be considered
>before your second choice regardless
>of the number of points
>it takes to draw.

I am confused. When did that change or did it? I understood it as bonecollector stated.

andygrand · Dec 22, 2016

They have always checked the first choice before the second. The problem is that people don't make the bonus pass on their first choice but they do their second. If he is confident that 15 will get him into the max point pool and that they won't hit the NR cap before he draws, then his second choice shouldn't matter. If you know where you want to hunt, I wouldn't even put a second choice.

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 22, 2016

Really appreciate the link to the draw info and additional clarity. Thank you for weighing in.

Good luck in the draws everyone.

Robert

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 22, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-16 AT 08:34AM (MST)[p]-

bonecollector777 · Dec 22, 2016

The only part I'm not clear on is if with the amount of points you have put you in the bonus pass for both choices. I would assume they would give you your first choice over your second. But what I do know is they will most definitely give you your second choice if your points put you in the bonus pass. If any of your first or second choice hunts are in the bonus pass you're gonna get it so have to be careful. A lot of guys put in a hard to draw first choice and think hey I'll put in a easier choice second choice just in case and never realize they didn't have a chance at their first choice because they got their tag in the bonus pass. Hope that made sense. Bottom line is if you want 3c with 15 points only put in for that hunt or if you do do another choice make sure it's an even harder to draw hunt that the 3c hunt.

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 22, 2016

Very good explanation/example Bonecollector777. There are no other hunts I want that I have any reasonable shot at in the bonus pass so I'll just stick with that one choice.

What I learned from all of you was that there's no reason to even list a "lottery" type hunt like an early season rifle/muzzy tag because I wouldn't make it to the random draw (under the assumption I have enough for the bonus pass). Swinging for the fences is for situations where you are pretty certain you won't draw a tag under the bonus pass.

thanks again

Robert

cmbbulldog · Dec 22, 2016

>Very good explanation/example Bonecollector777. There
>are no other hunts I
>want that I have any
>reasonable shot at in the
>bonus pass so I'll just
>stick with that one choice.
>
>
>What I learned from all of
>you was that there's no
>reason to even list a
>"lottery" type hunt like an
>early season rifle/muzzy tag because
>I wouldn't make it to
>the random draw (under the
>assumption I have enough for
>the bonus pass). Swinging
>for the fences is for
>situations where you are pretty
>certain you won't draw a
>tag under the bonus pass.
>
>
>thanks again
>
>Robert

That's correct. Good luck.

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 22, 2016

Just happened to look at the January E-Mag for Hunting Fool that came out today and they would suggest that it took at least 15 points for a non-resident to be in the Bonus Pass for a 3A/3C archery elk tag last year. Holy cow...that's a 2 point jump in 1 year. I assume the 5% cap in the bonus pass is causing folks to rethink their plans.

You never know how things will shake out from year to year but with the super late dates for archery hunts in 2017....I'm guessing my 15 points are going to be a little short this year.

Can't win if you don't play so we'll see what happens.

Robert

bonecollector777 · Dec 22, 2016

You'll pull it with 15. Unless some crazy amount of people with 15+ points decides to try for 3c. I don't think it will be much different from last year.

WapitiBob · Dec 22, 2016

Your odds of pulling 3a/3c with 15 are decent but it's not a lock because of the guys that applied in 2016 with 14 that may re apply and some higher point guys may drop in. Only 6 NR tags can be drawn in the Bonus Pass, and all were drawn in 2016.
If 3a/3c is all you want, list it as your 2nd choice as well, don't list a lesser unit. Your points are used in the 1-2 pass so with near max you'll have a weighted advantage in that draw and may pull the tag there.

JDECK · Dec 23, 2016

Where is the bonus point pass data broken down for nonresidents? When looking at the bonus pass by hunt number data I don't see it broken down by residency.

JDECK · Dec 23, 2016

Edit: I found the nonresident info by scrolling to the bottom of the data.

WapitiBob · Dec 23, 2016

I've been asking the Dept for that info since 2009 and they have told me it doesn't exist. The Data Branch Chief told me that again month. Thanks for the heads up. Looks like they added it to the 2016 report.

I owe you.

JDECK · Dec 23, 2016

I am not able to find the residency info for the 1-2 pass though.

WapitiBob · Dec 23, 2016

I may have a way to glean the info from another report I get. I'll let you know either way.

Horniac · Dec 23, 2016

>I am not able to find
>the residency info for the
>1-2 pass though.

Me either....

? for hunt #3133 Unit 9 archery NR for you draw experts;

100 total tags so no more than 10 NR tags and no more than 5 NR issued in the bonus point pass. NR Report shows 1 app with 19 points drew and 4 for 21 drew (1st and 2nd choice apps) so that accounts for the 5 NR bonus tags. Then it shows 1 NR drew with 16 points and another with 13 so a total of 7 NR tags drawn on this report (NR bonus point analysis by hunt).

Since the two NR tags drawn at the 13 and 16 point levels cannot be bonus tags by rule then it appears that these are tags that were drawn in the 1-2 pass meaning that NR lost 3 potential tags to residents as a result of the bonus pass rule change (7 total NR tags out of 10 possible). Am I interpreting the drawing rules and reports correctly?

Thanks,

Horniac

WapitiBob · Dec 23, 2016

LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-16 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]There is an unpublished report that you use to determine the nr tags drawn in the bonus pass and 1-2 pass on a per hunt basis. I haven't looked at the in months but don't recall 9 not filling the full allotment.

edit; the other report shows 5 nr in the Bonus Pass and 5 in the 1-2 Pass being drawn.

toprut · Dec 23, 2016

FYI we've compiled and made available the data from the unpublished report that I believe Bob is referring to. It basically splits out the # of successful applicants that were drawn in the bonus & 1/2 passes respectively.

Example:
http://www.toprut.com/hunt/arizona-elk-units-minimum-bonus-points-early-archery/nr/um/14/?view=list

Live4MtnHunts · Dec 23, 2016

Was turned on to your website today. LOVE it! Thank you for providing such a good tool.

WapitiBob · Dec 23, 2016

Horniac, the report only shows the Bonus Pass so those extra tags shouldn't be from the 1-2 Pass. I suspect they're fill ins from bumped applicants but I have a call in to the person in charge of these reports. I drew on a fill in tag when a guy was bumped from the Bonus Pass and I was given his tag number.

Perhaps someone on here knows where they're from?

toprut · Dec 23, 2016

We also noticed that sometimes the total # of NR tags drawn from the bonus point report didn't match the total from the summary report that specifies bonus and 1/2 pass totals. We believe that this discrepancy could be at least partially explained by lifetime AZ license holders who had moved out of state and get counted as NR's on the bonus point report. According to the AZ regs, lifetime AZ hunting license holders who have moved out of state are not subject to the 10% NR cap. We are looking to verify with AZ Game & Fish.

WapitiBob · Dec 23, 2016

Good explanation.
Question, will TopRut be doing predictive odds for 2017? ie; will you use the point pool totals after the 2016 draw to predict 2017 odds, understanding that it's a best guess scenario?

Horniac · Dec 24, 2016

Thanks for the responses WapitiBob and Toprut.

It seems to me that the discrepancy must be due to the AZ lifetime license hunters pulling a tag as you explained Toprut. It will be interesting to see what AZ Game & Fish says about this anomaly in the report.

Toprut, thanks for the link to your site and for the draw/points breakdown. The information is presented in a clear and concise manner. Just having the unit number listed along with the hunt number so you don't have to go back to the regulations to figure out what unit goes with the hunt # like you do when perusing the AZ Game & Fish draw report is a huge help in and of itself.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Horniac