Wow guys I do feel a little better now, I do apply for all the west states and all the spieces, lots of apps. lots of cash, I still cant belive that it happen to me two times in a row. I sent my deer and sheep off yesterday , 7.50 each for points . I hope I did it wright this time , Iam setting with one point from max on deer. Unit 10 I know isnt the very best but I had some good insight on the unit from a couple guys that had just hunted it . what would you guys look at with 11 points for a really good elk bow hunt? my deer next year Iam gonna try to draw one of the late 12 aw 12w 12b, anyone no what one has the best chance for nice big buck, I dont care about score , I just like a nice narly buck like the most of us. thanks again you guys and happy hunting this year. shawn