AZ Unit-23 Late Season Elk

jack7 · Apr 27, 2012

Hi Guys,

I was lucky enough to draw AZ Elk tag for Unit-23 Late season (Nov 30 to Dec-6th).

My problem is that I have never been to the area and probably won't see it with my own eyes until just before the hunt.

Does anybody know of any maps out there that show the migration routes of elk within this unit. So far I have struck out in my research. Perhaps someone from the area or that has hunted the late season in the past can give me some clues as to which mountain I should be looking at to find migrating bulls.
That is assuming that they will be moving at that time.

Any other info, such as what elevation to find them at at that time of year.

So far all I know is that the Southern part of the unit is a lot rougher and steeper than the Northern half.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,
Jack

sagebrush · Apr 27, 2012

Congratulations on a great tag. Elk in Arizona don't really migrate like they do in Colorado. Our winters are relatively mild. There is rough country throughout 23 and that will be a good place to be looking for a post rut bull. There is some private land mixed throughout the unit and it is illegal to discharge a firearm within 400 yards of any building, so let that be one of the factors you consider. The eastern boundary of the unit is the world famous White Mountain Apache reservation and the northern boundary is the Mogollon Rim. If you choose to hunt north of Highway 260, you can glass down from the rim into 23 to locate a bull. They will be holed up in small areas with food, water and cover all in close proximity. Most of them won't move from these spots for several days at a time, so if you glass one up, he'll likely be there for a while. A lot of the unit has pretty heavy cover and glassing locations are hard to come by south of the rim. There is some good country in the northeast corner of the unit accessible only by foot if you are willing to hike in and it's not a cake walk. You should give the game manager a call. He is very willing to share his knowledge with hunters. I'll PM his name and number.

creed · Apr 27, 2012

It is a good tag but there is some very rough country. I would suggest being in pretty good physical shape and be prepared for extreme weather changes. Last time I hunted 23 we were in short sleeves one day and a blizzard the next.

If you want particulars I can give you some areas to look at but it wouldn't be a bad idea to get as much info as possible from as many sources as you can.

couesmagnet · Apr 28, 2012

I would like to second sagebrush and his reply. I would add that the bulls you can glass of the rim in 23 are usually much smaller bulls than bulls that are south of the rim even by just a couple of miles. Most, if not all the bulls that can be glassed of the rim are bulls that have dropped off the rim from 4A. You drew a tag to hunt the big bulls of 23 , not bulls from 4A which are much smaller on average. There are tons of canyons and points to glass from south of the rim in the unit(to many to count). Also if you are going to hunt of the rim, be prepared for a minimum shot of 450 yards to infinity. Get in those canyons south of christofer mountain and the big canyons that are north and south off young literally leading out of young valley itself.

Gator · Apr 28, 2012

If your Glassing from up high bring the best glass(Bino Tripod Spotting scope) that you can borrow,rent,buy,ect. You will be thankful.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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Snuffy · Apr 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-12 AT 02:19PM (MST)[p]This is my 23 Late bull from last year with Colburn and Scott Outfitters.
Not the biggest bull in the unit.
Knowing the effort put in by all and being the last day with a few hours left in the season this bull is a monster to me.
Very tough country, almost everyplace you can find or kill a bull you can expect a steep pack out.
I was a NR with no time to scout and thinking this might be my last AZ elk hunt hired an outfitter for the 1st time.
In my opinion the best money I ever spent.
Thank You
Rick

TRC · Apr 28, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Apr-28-12 AT 09:05PM (MST)[p]I 2nd Jay Scott, Darr Colburn and Janis P. (my guide).

Cazador · Apr 29, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-12 AT 09:33AM (MST)[p]PM sent

Snuffy · Apr 29, 2012

TRC.
Janis is a great guy and amazing with the optic's.
I passed on a 350 broken bull that the other client shot on opening day and I helped pack out.Ended up with both Darr and Janis as my guides. Great people and had alot of fun with them.
Thank You
Rick

jack7 · Apr 30, 2012

Hi Guys,

Thank you very much for all the insight. I really appreciate it.

So far the main mountain ranges I have identified are Christopher, Turkey, Armer, Reynolds Creek & Hell's Gate Wilderness.

Some of these peaks, like Christopher are 6,700 ft elevation. I hear you guys saying that the elk don't really migrate in these areas. So do they stay up at the peaks or will they come down to about the 5,000 to 4,000 foot elevation when the weather turns nasty?

Regars,
Jack

couesmagnet · Apr 30, 2012

>Hi Guys,
>
>Thank you very much for all
>the insight. I really appreciate
>it.
>
>So far the main mountain ranges
>I have identified are Christopher,
>Turkey, Armer, Reynolds Creek &
>Hell's Gate Wilderness.
>
>Some of these peaks, like Christopher
>are 6,700 ft elevation. I
>hear you guys saying that
>the elk don't really migrate
>in these areas. So do
>they stay up at the
>peaks or will they come
>down to about the 5,000
>to 4,000 foot elevation when
>the weather turns nasty?
>
>Regars,
>Jack
They dont migrate from any of the peaks, hells gate is prime winter range and gets pounded by hunters. It says wilderness but the actual wilderness part is pretty small. Armer mountain is considered pretty low also and the bulls do not come off the top in any numbers. Pm sent

sagebrush · Apr 30, 2012

High temps that time of year can be as warm as 80 or as cold as 30, but more than likely lows in the 30's and highs in the 60's. If a winter storm rolls in, you will have colder temps and snow in the higher elevations. I don't think you'll find too many elk on the tops regardless of temps, but in the canyons leading off the mountains. There is a lot of private around Turkey Peak. The Hell's Gate has very little pine, more oak brush and manzanita, but you could find a bull in just about any canyon that has all three ingredients, food, water, and cover. I've watched bulls eating the bark off pine trees like it was alfalfa that time of year, so you just never know.

couesmagnet · May 17, 2012

Just my opinion, but most of the mountains in 23 are pretty small. Anything with a mountain after it on the map in unit 23 is pretty much a hill when compared to mountains in other states. From christofer mountain all the way south every mountain tops elevation doesnt really derivate much from its base elevation(less than a thousand feet). I agree that most bulls will start in the morning in the canyons below the tops, but alot work their way back up to the top by shooting light. An elk on the bottom of these "hills" can be up to the top in less than 5-10 minutes walking. Thats all i was trying to say by elk not migrating off the tops of mountains in 23. Also most of the elk on top of the rim consider just dropping off the rim and going less than 5 miles their migration, and any mountain top in 23 is considerably lower than the rim. I have seen year after year bulls start at the base of any "hill" in 23 and end up at the top of the hill to bed by first light. The canyons leading of these mountains are the best places to look on average, but dont count out the tops of the mountains and mesas cause there are bulls up there, some of the biggest in my opinion.

tooele · May 18, 2012

This isn't what you are going to want to hear, but this is a tough, tough, tough hunt. There are not elk running around everywhere in this unit. It is steep, nasty, thick and big, unbroken bulls are hard to find. Come to hunt in shape and mentally tough, cause you will need it. If you are not getting good specific inside information from people who have hunted the unit, hire an outfitter or you'll go home very disappointed and you will wonder why it is so hard to draw this tag.

couesmagnet · May 18, 2012

LAST EDITED ON May-18-12 AT 08:12AM (MST)[p]After 20 plus years of pounding 23, i think tooele hit it right on the head, especially the last 3 years. Very, very well said tooele. This has become an extremely tough hunt lately, especially for anything over 340 or so. The slaughter that's taken place in 23 over the last 4 or 5 years has taken the unit down several notches.

jack7 · May 18, 2012

Hi Tooele,

You make it sound pretty ominous. Unfortunately I am not in a position to hire a guide. I will have to make the most of it on my own. When I first started applying for points, I figured, how long could it take. But then the yearly license required to accumulate pts went from $100 to $150 and that adds up every year, just for the purpose of accumulating pts.
Now I know what your thinking, you can apply for more than one animal. And I did. I was also applying for a Mule deer tag in B12, but pts required to draw that unit just keep dragging out. I finally decided I can't afford to play this game anymore and am cashing out. I settled for a 36C Coues deer tag as my 3rd choice with 10 pts last year. I didn't get the biggest buck in the unit, but I had my 11 year old son with me on the hunt and we did get a little buck after 4 days. And we had a great time in some beautiful country. By the way, those Coues deer are about the tastiest wild game i have ever eaten!!!

After this hunt, I will be out of Arizona drawings. Just can't afford it......

Sincerely,
Jack

couesmagnet · May 18, 2012

Jack call me i left you a p.m. with my number.

DonMartin · May 22, 2012

Might want to give Dave Bruns (602-228-1719) a call. I think he knows that unit better than anyone.

He is there about 6 months a year, and always looking.

Here is a bull his guy got last year. Guy wanted a non typical bull..I'd say he got it.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/4502randy_hopp_antlers_23n_2011.jpg

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

couesmagnet · May 22, 2012

Awesome bull don, wasnt that bull killed on an early rifle tag though in 23 and not on the late hunt? Thanks for posting the pics.

ducksbucksandbulls · May 22, 2012

PM sent...

DonMartin · May 22, 2012

Yes, you are right. That was a bull Dave guided on last September with Randy Hopp from Newberg Or. who had the most bonus points of anyone who applied for a tag there in 2011 (19). And after speaking to a lot of guides in 23N, he chose Dave Bruns.

Here is a photo that his then 12-year-old son Cole took a couple of years ago on the late 23N hunt.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/user_photos/9328cole_bruns_elk_hunt_23n_2011.jpg

Dave has been involved with a number of hunters in the past on archery, early and late elk hunts in unit 23N, and while he is reluctant to post photos and beat his chest, I'm not, as he has done a heck of job up there in the past with friends, family and clients!

Listen I know there are a number of good guides in AZ that produce big bulls and my post wasn't a slap to any of them. Most I don't know personally, some I do. I respect anyone who gets out there and makes it happen for others through hard work, dedication and perseverance.

And I can say is that Dave Bruns is definitely one of those guys too!

Hope this helps!

Don Martin
Arizona Wildlife Outfitters

jack7 · May 22, 2012

Hi Don,

Thank you for the picture. That's a nice looking bull and a very happy boy!

One thing I can't help but notice is the lack of snow. It appears to be a very nice sunny day. I'm sure things can change fast, but it would be nice if I didn't have to wear a heavy jacket

I also notice it is brushy. Seems it might be tough to spot the elk in their beds. But than again, when is it ever easy?

Thanks again, and if you have more pics, I would love to see them to get an idea of what the terrain looks like and what the representative elk look like.

Regards,
Jack

booter96 · May 22, 2012

Jack...As Don said I spend a great deal of time in unit 23. So here is my take on the unit and hunt. First off myself and my son Cole ( the kid in the pic ) drew the late rifle tag this yr so I will be in the unit from Nov 9th till we are done or the hunt ends. And I have a early bow hunter so I will be there the whole month of Sept. You have been given a lot of very good info so far.. This hunt will be what you make it.. This unit has bulls from the rim down to the low desert.. We have killed bulls all over the unit in just about every terrain you can think of. The whole unit holds trophy bulls on both the early and late hunts. I will agree that overall the unit does not produce the number of trophy class bulls (375 plus) that it once did but there is still a very good chance to take a great bull on any of the early hunts.. And on the late hunt too.. It takes a great deal of hard work and you need a little luck!!..The hunt has been moved back a week this yr and I think it will make for one of the best hunts in a very long time. The first major snow storm of the yr generally hits a day or two before or after the opener with the hunt moved back this yr it should hit the week before opening day. If you know where to look and have the right glass this hunt is unreal after a good snow storm hits. Very long shots and deep canyons are the norm ( Cole shot his bull opening morning at 486 yrds and it took 2 days to get it out ) The yr before we shot a bull at just under 400 yrds ( late hunt). I had a client shoot a bull at 780 on the late hunt a few yrs back. The weather can be a B**** cold as Hell or sunny and cool from one day to the next. Have good boots and dont be afraid to use them. Glass till your eyes hurt so bad you cant hold them open and then glass for a few more hours. I know some very good hunters who have had tag soup on this hunt you can goes days and not see a good bull. The roads will tear you truck apart have lots of spares and a good tow strap. If you have a diesel there is no fuel in the unit. Good rain gear is a must it does not rain much on the late hunt but when it does in really rains. Talk to the WM in the unit his name is Dave and he will give you a lot of info as long as you are willing to do your home work. I dont post pics ( someone always has something to say or wants to argue ) If you like give me a call I will send you pics to your e-mail address. Just FYI Coles bull went 355 and it was his third choice bull. Bull 1 and 2 were over 380 and we had watched all of them for over three weeks they had not moved more then a mile in that time. As it was his first bull tag I told him we were going to shoot the first bull over 350 that we had a good shot at. Dave 602/228-1719

Gator · May 22, 2012

never expect snow, it might come or it might not, Got to be ready for cold and dry or warm and dry.
Me I like snow up above the rim. LOL

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
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