AZGFD = retards

S

STF

Guest
What a disaster AZGFD is. How hard is it in todays technological world to hold a drawing without screwing it up. If they would charge up front fees, we wouldnt have issues with the cc companies.

Very sad and goes to show the ineptness of AZGFD.
 
I think it has more to do with the company that does the draw etc. I think it's a private company that does this for azgfd.
Also it may be the cc company that screwed up by not allowing a fraudulent looking charge who knows they are after all mostly run by overseas dorks who know nothing of what a game and fish dept is. Also the results would be mailed out by the 20 th. they have 11 days to send them out.
Now I want to know that I wasn't drawn just like everyone else but I'm not ready to jump on the bash game and fish wagon since that wagon has already left the barn this year with the azsfw in the drivers seat.
It's frustrating to say the least .
 
It is my understanding that AZ state law prevents G&F from charging the fees up front.

You are welcome to visit my Photo Gallery here http://www.plateaulightphotography.com/
The-Wave-9-15-10edited_210.jpg
 
If I remember right there was a thread about this a year or so ago concerning AFGFD charging credit cards up front. It has nothing to do with Game and Fish, but the banking laws in Arizona. You cannot charge for a product before you receive it. Hence no up front charges to CC. Not sure how this applies to mail in apps with checks. At least this was my understanding of what I read
 
anything online can have flaws- not like they can just reset button on any action- we have all dealt with cc companyies - miss charges etc. takes forever to get someone who can solve it. - now concider 50 different companies .

they have had problems with every software company with this online proceess -

i prefer mail in only.
 
All I can say is I'm not too happy with how this years draw was done by azgfd, even if it wasn't all their fault.
 
I don'telieve Wyoming has ever had problems like this mess in AZ and they can also charge upfront, which gives plenty of time before the draw if there are any problems with an account.
 
If you don't like it don't apply. Many of the people who wanted online are now whining because of how it is going. If you can do such a better job and think it is so easy to do, by all means go do it. Otherwise get over it.
 
Well I don't like it and I believe they can do better. I was one who wanted the paper system to remain the only option. I live in AZ and support the AZGFD every way I can. I feel bad for the Game Rangers because they will take the brunt of comments while in the field. They have no control over the debacle. I'm not a whiner and not looking to pick a fight but this is ridicules. They (AZGFD) boast about the number of applications 133,000. I believe this is what they wanted, a way to make more revenue. I believe it is time some high ranking person to come out publicly and explain this mess. He/She can then tell us what they are going to do to insure this doesn't happen again in a few short months. I don't believe that is asking too much. Tim
 
Scremin nothing wrong with wanting something better that I think they can improve on...I'm hoping a quality online system can be achieved, azgfd has had trouble with the online system for five years now. I haven't seen many other States have nearly the difficulties we have here.
 
youill get an increase when everyone can charge today pay later - american lifestyle -

paper only way to go - if they aint got the cash they don't apply and i get better oods!
 
There were 133k applications with the possiblity of 4 per application. Most would have at least two applicants. 266k checking to see if they were drawn.
Highly entusiastic hunters like myself wanted to know if we were drawn. We didn't just crash the azgfd.gov gov system, but the entive az.gov system as well. This may have included the email addresses of the governor's staff.
The Game and fish Department worked for months in order to avoid these issues. the vendor simply was not prepared for the demand.
I'm not prepared to blame anyone yet. I'm sure that this will be a hot topic at future Commission meetings.
Personally, I would like the Commission to go the paper applications only for a very extended period of time.
George
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-09-12 AT 11:36PM (MST)[p]Isn't it a little disingenuous of us to not want others to apply to hunt so that we have better odds of drawing, while at the same time saying we are sportsman that promote our hobby and love for the outdoors, and support the next generation to come afield? Many of the people that were able to apply because of the online system will be first time hunters if/when they draw. Maybe a 12 year old who will be the future govenor or G&F commissioner just drew his first hunt...
 
I've said it all along. "Arizona has the best, worst managed hunting in the world"
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-12 AT 07:02AM (MST)[p]We get to hear the same whining every year. If its not the online process, they take too long with results.. if its not results its the paper apps. I'd like a wamburger and frenchcries.

Did you get drawn or not? If you did, congrats.. if you didn't, better luck next year. Other wise stop complaining.

Here... you want to do something constructive with your time? You want to do something that actually benefits wildlife? You want to do something other than sit back and complain about how game and fish screws things up? They beg all the time for help with projects. Mesquitehunter posted this up in THIS forum and not one response... NOT ONE! This topic had 17 responses prior to my post. Here's the thread:

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID33/1927.html

AZGFD = retards??

How about... I collect my tag and do nothing else for wildlife = retards



"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
If you get drawn you'll love AZG&F if you don't draw you'll hate them....same thing every year.
 
Hey guys, this is 2012 and it does really look bad when a state has the problems AZ has had a number of times with their system. The only problem I've seen in Wyoming is the G&F website gets slow the day of draw results, but they never have problems like AZ seems to continue to have. To say that they should go back to strictly paper applications sounds a little lame in this day and age when many kids are on computers nowadays before they are potty trained, LOL!
 
I wasn't refering to you TOPGUN, I just sit back and look at the whole picture sometimes.

Could things be better? Sure. But 90% of the people that sit and complain about what game and fish screws up, don't do a damn thing other than put in, draw a tag and go hunting. People can sit here and bash the department but when its time to step up and do our part an help on a catchment project... you get ZERO replies.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
The fact remains the Arizona draw process in 2012 was / is unacceptable with too many errors and leaves itself open for harsh comments.

This includes the applications process via on-line and the notification of the results. This is not a whine, but an objective observation.

Applicants are charged $7.50 to apply per species. My household spent over $42 to process applications. This is not chump change.

While the Game and Fish may not own and operate the on-line website, whoever holds the decision making authority to select a company and enter into a contract for the on-line process hopefully was smart enough to have performance standards in the contract. There are plenty of other states that hold on-line draws without the major failures Arizona had this year.

For those that seem to think this is not big deal and those that are complaining are cry babies, would you accept this failure in any other service you pay for?

I am willing to give the AZ Game and Fish an opportunity to correct the issues ONE TIME.... if there are issues like this in the deer / sheep draw.... hummm....
 
Wyoming splits their draw, nonres.first then about 5 months later res. draw. But I agree it could be better in 2012. Once I see I've drawn it's all forgotten anyway.
 
Some of you guys are the retards, "if you dont like it then dont apply". Really? That is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. All I was saying that this years process was a COLASSAL FAILURE. No body should be happy with this type of level of professionalism. I even drew a great tag. It was still a big black eye and proves the ineptness and lack of proactive solutions from AZGFD.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-10-12 AT 09:35AM (MST)[p]>>I'm ok with paper or online, just charge upfront!!! <<

No can do because of AZ's banking laws.

A vendor cannot charge a CC upfront for a product that isn't delivered. In other words, they cannot charge a CC for a "we might just sell this guy a tag a couple months from now" and then issue a refund when it's not sold.

This goes for any purchase of goods or services online or otherwise to someone in AZ. If a person orders multiple items from a seller, and one or more of them are placed on back-order, the vendor legally can charge only for the items shipped. The vendor will then charge for the back-ordered items when they are shipped at a later date.

So the only alternative AZG&FD could use would be an electronic transfer from a personal checking account, which would mirror how payment must be made via the paper app route.


TONY MANDILE
48e63dfa482a34a9.jpg

How To Hunt Coues Deer
 
Every single year there is some kind of complaint... Every year. Game and fish doesn't even care anymore because they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Again.. They end up in the position of managing hunters. If hunters in our fine state volunteered a fraction of the time they spent complaining about game and fish, there wouldn't be anything to complain about. I sit back here and look at all these topics but when a water project comes up and there is not one single reply, iit makes me want to puke. Granted, water projects have nothing to with getting drawn but honestly look at the irony. Hunters are quickly turning into self centered hypocrits. "Game and fish, you'd better not make any mistakes with the draw but I won't lift a crooked finger to help on water or habitat projects."

Cry me a flippin river.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
AZWALKER. with your line of thinking, we may as well just stay home and let Obama have another 4 years in the white house. Don't complain, just allow things to happen and dont try to improve them.

If you truly believe this is the best AZGFD can do, then we will agree to disagree. This procees was horrible.
 
Yes and not being a part of the process is like complaining about Obama when you didn't vote. I don't know you or your level of involvment so this isn't soley directed at you but I've sat here and watched people complain about AZSFW and HB2072. I see people complain about the draw process. Sportsmen in general do a lot of complaining but do little to nothing to be part of the process. Yes, you should expect that the draw process runs correctly but what level of involvement do you have in the process other than buying a tag and applying. Nothing I hate more than hearing people bad mouth game and fish when they don't get off their butts and go to meetings, help on habitat projects, help on water projects, kill predators and whatever else NEEDS to be done. If the wildlife belongs to the people of this state, they need to take some accountability for it. Buying a license and drawing a tag is NOT conservation, its taking and not giving anything back. Maybe this comes off directed at you and I don't mean for it to but, if you don't go to meetings, if you don't assist game and fish in conservation projects and you aren't doing anything but buying a license... How can you complain? Gmae and fish isn't walmart. They aren't there to serve us. This isn't McDonalds! You don't like what happened? Awesome! Get involved and do something about it. Grab a shovel and meet us out there on the 28th! Hope to see you there!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
I think it is fair to say there needs to be changes because this one is not working.

Where else do you have to pay a service/process charge and get this terrible of service?

Should be interesting to see what G&F response is once all the dust settles.
 
Here's the truth for all the gossip girls.

Folks,



Most if not all of us are getting calls, texts, and e-mails from folks wondering what the heck is going on with yesterday?s draw results release. The false rumor about a security breach also continues to circulate. In an effort to get us all on the same page:

? Bottom line: The passion of our hunters for their sport overwhelmed the system . . . not just ours but, according to ASET (The Arizona Strategic Enterprise Technology office, i.e., Arizona?s IT agency) the demand on the system temporarily affected every ?az.gov? website in the state.

o Unlike our efforts several years ago, the system did not ?crash?, it did not break.

o The results went on line ~1:30pm yesterday and, initially, the system worked as planned. But once the word got out, the load became huge and folks attempting to get into the site ?timed out? before the system could give them their turn. The phone system continued to work, but that was not going to be a substitute for getting your results on-line. Until late in the afternoon, the contractor believed (incorrectly as it turned out) that there was a ?denial of service? attack on the system.

o Neither the contractor nor ASET (the state IT agency) expected the load . . . no other website in the state draws this kind of load. The contrator?s comment was that they had ?never seen anything like it?. While we do not intend to throw the contractor under the bus, we also won't let them off the hook . . . throughout the course of our preparation for a return to the on-line draw, they were told how important it was that the system be able to handle the customer load on deadline day and draw results release day. We were repeatedly assured they had adequately load tested the system for the high demand we expect on the first couple of days of the release of the results. Obviously, their testing was inadequate.

o Our preparations for this draw included:

? More than a year of pre-launch testing and coordination with the contractor.

? Using the Spring draw to shake out remaining ?bugs? . . . we used the same contractor and system for that draw and things went well. As the smallest of our three draws, this was a good test bed, but we knew . . . and made clear to the contractor . . . that this draw would be a different breed of cat when it came to demand on the system. If they didn't believe us before, THEY DO NOW.

o The contractor should have done better, but I do believe they have learned a necessary lesson from this and it will pay off for our customers during future draws. I hate that our customers (including our folks who put in for the draw) are going thru this ? IT IS UNACCEPTABLE -- but the reliability of this system will be better in the future . . . 30 years in the Infantry taught me that the lessons learned best and longest were the ones that were the most painful.



? The Current situation:

o The draw results page currently is up.

o ASET (Arizona?s IT agency)and the contractor continue to use workarounds (they worked literally all night) to get us through the current situation so our hunters can find out if they were drawn.

o A detailed post-mortem is already planned to shake this out for the next draw and beyond.

o Bonus points are being updated throughout the day and they should be fully updated by close of business today.



? The rumor about a compromise of our customer information data base:

o Bottom line: It didn't happen.

o In March, VISA and Mastercard announced a breach of their databases.

o Shortly thereafter we had a few (I think the total so far is 4, but we should expect more once everyone has checked the draw results) folks who used credit cards for the draw that were denied by their banks as a result of the VISA/Mastercard breach.

contact us to the effect that the credit card they used for the draw had been compromised and they had to cancel their cards.

o For these folks, this occurred after the cut-off date for changing their method of payment (we will advertise that date more widely in the future).

o We are researching options for the Commission and Department for dealing the with loss of bonus points that could result from a denied credit card and are going to work on the rules necessary to enable us to deal with identity-theft-driven bonus point issues in the future.

o Having received one of those customer calls, I told staff to be watching the system to see if this was a significant issue or just a problem for an unfortunate few.

o I suspect that our efforts to be prepared for the impact of the VISA/Mastercard security breach became translated into a breach of OUR system. Again, that did not happen.



That's it for now,



--Gary

Gary R. Hovatter

Deputy Director

AZGFD


There you go. There's the deptpartments answer and the dust hasn't evem settled.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
They are still retarded


Yours truly,
HumbledHunter (stinkystomper's alter ego)
Mormons are Christians too
 
lmao... well there you go.

Oh wait.. how about "I know you are but what am I?"

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
"It was still a big black eye and proves the ineptness and lack of proactive solutions from AZGFD."

STF,

Your comments prove who is really retarded. The statement above and the one in your first post. Game and Fish does not sit there in the office and run the computer system. You act like they are supposed to know every flaw or glitch that may present itself before hand.

Also, where is it guaranteed that G&F will release ANY results before the posted MAILING date of the tags? The releasing of results is a convenience. Get off your high and mighty horse and if you can do such a better job then go run G&F's computer system.

Oh wait, I guess only retards can do that, huh? Typical Monday morning quarterbacking from whiners.....I'm just sayin!
 
I applaud the AZGFD for getting the information out quickly as to what happened. AZWALKER thanks for posting up the column from the Deputy Director. I did not see this release and the one on their website is different. May I ask where you located this one? I don't believe the name calling is helpful on either side of this issue. Let's all hope it is corrected before the next draw. We might have more people apply for 13A then we had for this entire draw (humor). Tim
 
Who cares what anyone thinks. If you got drawn-good, if you didn't like me-bad. STF, you forgot the last letter on your handle. STFU.
 
That email was sent to one of the owners of TheArizonaHunter.com for the sole purpose of being posted and letting the online public know what transpired. Pretty fair group over there and there not alot of nonsense on that site. Game and Fish has been fairly open and willing to post there. We have several WM's and other employees from game and fish that frequent the site.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Its so easy to pop up here and ramble off comments and armchair quarterback. If more people were involved in the conservation process, actually talked with employees of the Dept and took an active roll in partnering with Game and Fish, there would be a different opinion of the dept. I used to be one that sat back and cussed the dept about how they did things but as soon as I involved myself and saw all the challenges they are faced with, my opinion took a 180. Now that I am involved, I am rapidly seeing that the vast majority of sportsmen in this fine state really don't give a rip about conservation. They want what they can get out of it. We can blame ourselves for every problem in this state except for maybe the drought. Game and Fish does a fine job of trying to collect public input. They tell us what their plans are, they ask us to comment on theri plans... Shoot we even had a WM ask us if we wanted to meet him to discuss the placement of future water catchments. That right there solidifies my opinion that we have a great dept.so the server got bogged down... And they are retards because of it?? That's rediculous. There are plenty of projects coming up that we can step up and take part in. Or... We can sit on MM or CW and spew our opinion while others do the work. I'll borrow this little quote from a great friend... When all is said and done, more is said than done.

Oh and yes, those of you thinking that I'm not talking about you.... I'm talking directly to you!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-11-12 AT 07:10PM (MST)[p]The Game and Fish in AZ is a good organization facing many challenges. I appreciate what they do... but I would love to have the $7.50 fee per person to process a draw...

then I could get a tag LOL
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-11-12 AT 07:08PM (MST)[p]Just for the record...At $7.50 an application and 133,000 applications I am sure I could do better with $1,000,000 in revenue per draw or $2,000,000 per year.

I could write up a great business plan and become very rich on the AZ draw..I would like to know what AZ Game and Fish actually PAID the contract and what went towards the coffers..if I got the $7.50 per applicant the results would be 100 fold better (even knowing what CC charge for transactions).

Being critical of the draw process and the Game and Fish are two different topics...

The Game and Fish are not retards.... they are a good organization facing many challenges.
 
How people freak out and call for heads because a server got bogged down and their connection timed out is beyond me. We got a quick response from the department. They spelled out what the problem was and that they would fix it. What else do you want? For Gods sakes, you got a bull tag with plenty of time to plan for your hunt. You know, we could lobby to go back to the days when you found out you got draw by getting your tag in the mail. I want what I want when I want it!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
I've gotta agree. Sure, the new system had some flaws and wasn't as smooth as everyone would have liked. But the results are posted and the deadline isn't even here yet. Historically, AZGFD gets the results out before the CO deadline and that can be helpful. It didn't happen this year. They still held up their end of the deal. I've had limited, but good, dealings with AZGFD so far. Hopefully, some things were learned and improvements will be made. But overall I don't see it being the catastrophe that some are making it out to be.

Don P
 

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