B&C Positions webpage

BrowningRage

BrowningRage

Long Time Member
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Found this on the Boone & Crockett website recently. Thought it was worth referring y'all over there to see what their thoughts and positions are regarding things like Trophy Hunting, Technology, Fair Chase, etc... This is why I still have respect for the club.

B&C Position Statements — Big Game Records and Hunting

TROPHIES AND TROPHY HUNTING What constitutes a trophy is a matter of personal choice and experience,
www.boone-crockett.org www.boone-crockett.org
 
I agree I was happy to see there stance with some of the electronic devices available today. At some point you have to draw a line because everyone’s personal ethics are different and have seemed to decline over time with the desire for instant gratification from posting trophy photos online.
 
I was not a real fan of BC, for a long time. Their scoring system, I believe has done unmeasurable harm to hunting, second only to social media.

However, I heard the leadership of BC on a podcast, and gained some respect and better understanding of what they try to accomplish as a source of data and reference on big game animals.

I appreciate that they did say something. In an age where IG likes and sponsorships corrupt nearly every public org, famous hunter, etc, it was nice to see a renown group buck the trend
 
FACT; Most outfitters generally do everything but pull the trigger!

I think it’s great that B&C stands up to the ever increasing borderline nonethical and non-fair chase stuff!
 
roadrunner said:
Dude, if you want to go on a fact finding mission, I'm your "huckleberry"...
Click to expand...
More like a dingleberry.

Other than wiping my own, I generally ignore assholes. I'm making an exception in your case, dude.

You're the one who said cameras don't kill. The same goes for outfitters.

Roadrunner:
"The trail cam doesn't do the killing.


FACT!"
 
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OutdoorWriter said:
More like a dingleberry.

Other than wiping my own, I generally ignore assholes. I'm making an exception in your case, dude.

You're the one who said cameras don't kill. The same goes for outfitters.

Roadrunner:
"The trail cam doesn't do the killing.


FACT!"
Click to expand...

Use your words, I know you can do it.

Hunters hire outfitters, not cameras. Outfitters bring the hunter to the animal, not cameras. Outfitters have been taking hunters to animals way before cameras were even a thing.

Fact.

Fact.

Fact.

Cameras can't always pattern early fall big mule deer bucks, but outfitters can. They do it all the time.

Fact.

Stop pretending to be the smartest one in the room 'cause you aren't.

Fact.
 
roadrunner said:
Use your words, I know you can do it.

Hunters hire outfitters, not cameras. Outfitters bring the hunter to the animal, not cameras. Outfitters have been taking hunters to animals way before cameras were even a thing.

Fact.

Fact.

Fact.

Stop pretending to be the smartest one in the room 'cause you aren't...
Click to expand...
You were the one that originally stated that cameras do not kill things. I countered -- somewhat sarcastically-- that outfitters do not kill things any more than cameras kill things. Both are true.

HUNTERS, whether using outfitters or cameras to locate their targets, do the killing.

Now, surprise me & tell me something I don't already know.
 
I would say this- outfitters literally call their clients "shooters"- I've heard it directly (no, I've never used one, just met them in the backcountry). Ya, the outfitters don't kill the animal anymore than a camera does. But the outfitter/guide does the "hunting" in my opinion. The client pulls the trigger.
 
Cameras bring the animal to the outfitter/guide. In many instances if not most of the time... outfitter/guide would have no idea that the animal ever existed without the camera. AZ eventually got it right, but it took them far too long.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
I would say this- outfitters literally call their clients "shooters"- I've heard it directly (no, I've never used one, just met them in the backcountry). Ya, the outfitters don't kill the animal anymore than a camera does. But the outfitter/guide does the "hunting" in my opinion. The client pulls the trigger.
Click to expand...


Exactly. I've heard them call clients "triggers" also.

Reality is, the outfitter only needs a signed check.

The client needs everything else.

Always fun listening to dudes, who hire the scouting, guiding, cooking, lodging, cleaning, hauling, processing, transportation, try to pretend the outfitter isn't a big deal.
 
The fact to the matter is that the "client" or "trigger finger" would likely never have a chance at the same trophy critter without the help of the outfitter. In some outfitter's cases, no chance for the same trophy animal for their "trigger fingered 'client" without the aid of all the fancy cameras and other modernized equipment. As you noticed, I didn't even call the client a hunter!
 
hossblur said:
Technically neither do rifles or bows.

By themselves they are hunks of steel and plastic

But they sure are use usefully for the killer(the human).

Similar to cameras
Click to expand...
Taaaddaaa. My point exactly. And anyone who claims cameras do not aid individual hunters as well is being disingenuous.
 
wetmule said:
Cameras bring the animal to the outfitter/guide. In many instances if not most of the time... outfitter/guide would have no idea that the animal ever existed without the camera. AZ eventually got it right, but it took them far too long.
Click to expand...

Don't you mean cameras bring the outfitter/guide to the animal? Cameras make finding the animal more "efficient". The camera, at that point is done. The rest depends on the outfitter/guide to place the hunter in position up to and including saying "shoot 'em", or "there's your shot, take it".

Cameras don't kill animals. A paying hunter doesn't kill the animal until the outfitter/guide does their job based on their intel whatever that amounts to...
 
There’s been a lot of great animals harvested over the years that likely would have lived through hunting seasons if it weren’t for finders fees, game cameras, drones, radios, and an army of guides keeping track of them until a client pulls the trigger.

If it weren’t for game cams these bucks or bulls likely never would have been found in the the first place!
 
There’s been a lot of great animals harvested over the years that likely would have lived through hunting seasons if it weren’t for finders fees, game cameras, drones, radios, and an army of guides keeping track of them until a client pulls the trigger.

If it weren’t for game cams these bucks or bulls likely never would have been found in the the first place!
 
There's a bunch of discussion here about what outfitters supposedly call the person with the tag: "shooter," "trigger," etc...

That is somehow supposed to be proof that the outfitter is therefore the real "hunter" in the group.

I think the outfitter's personal nomenclature is a weak argument to make since I doubt they refer to themselves as the "hunter" either.

This seems like an odd tangent to be on in a discussion about trail cams and technology in hunting.
 
I constantly hear "Game cameras were a game changer" by many. It's no secret to many that they have been. Cell linked cameras are even more concerning transmitting a pic real time. The quality of Glass, scopes, cell phones etc. all have played a part. Sometimes I wonder how some Big Game make it past 3 years old.
 
In this day and age is there really ethics or fair chase going on in the hunting community, pretty sure it all about the mighty dollar. The things going on are really pretty pathetic. Latest things I’ve heard, WLH busted again, Hornandy partners with convicted poacher and then said poacher makes YouTube video of his hunt on some of hornadys property. And in person on our 3rd season deer hunt in Colorado driving up a main highway headed to a different areas we see some elk out in a private field and we watch a bull fall well up in front of us see 2 guys standing pretty much on the highway putting up there shooting sticks and scurry off to side of highway and start waking towards a pickup parked up the road aways . Well that pickup had the ranches name on it . Pretty sad.
 
roadrunner said:
Use your words, I know you can do it.

Hunters hire outfitters, not cameras. Outfitters bring the hunter to the animal, not cameras. Outfitters have been taking hunters to animals way before cameras were even a thing.

Fact.

Fact.

Fact.

Cameras can't always pattern early fall big mule deer bucks, but outfitters can. They do it all the time.

Fact.

Stop pretending to be the smartest one in the room 'cause you aren't.

Fact.
Click to expand...

Screenshot_20220202-110616__01.jpg
 
grizzly said:
There's a bunch of discussion here about what outfitters supposedly call the person with the tag: "shooter," "trigger," etc...

That is somehow supposed to be proof that the outfitter is therefore the real "hunter" in the group.

I think the outfitter's personal nomenclature is a weak argument to make since I doubt they refer to themselves as the "hunter" either.

This seems like an odd tangent to be on in a discussion about trail cams and technology in hunting.
Click to expand...


Specifically you may be correct.


HOWEVER.

More and more we are seeing a divide between "average" hunters and outfitters. The current trail cam revote being just the latest in an ever growing list of actions the corporate class is involved in, at the detriment to the rest of us, the silent majority.

When the cam ban hits, suddenly outfitters such as WLH(he called us all knuckleheads not long ago) suddenly wants to be some leader of hunters rights. He's the most assinine considering the last decade or so, but he's not alone.

Outfitters ate increasingly at odds with the hunting majority in their drive for $$ and game. They lobby for policies that benefit them, at our expense. The newer CWMU models, for example,in which an outfitter pays small ranches to combine with other small ranches, wasn't what the CWMU was sold. It's great for outfitters, who get repeat yearly buisness. Bad for everyone else.

So yeah, what the outfitter calls himself is silly.

But words are important. The sooner the vast majority of "average" hunters come to realize it's not the 90's, where guides were few, outfitters fewer. It's 2022. They are corporations whose only goal is to kill faster, bigger, longer. And which views all of us, as competition, whom they have no issue with irradicating.

We are all still "knuckleheads". Time has come for us to not let the rats scurry back on the ship, whenever they need protection from rough waters. Call them what you want, but they aren't our friends, and the "we are all in the same boat", hasn't been true for a while. Not because of us, we are all still in the boat. But because they blew holes in it, then took off on a yacht.

When $fw is supporting the ban, with all of $fw conflicts of interest, and deep pocket support, yet the outfitters are tossing them under the bus as well, if dudes couldn't see the issue, they are willfully blind.

Call them hunter, or outfitter.

We need to call them what they are, a PROBLEM
 
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roadrunner said:
Use your words, I know you can do it.

Hunters hire outfitters, not cameras. Outfitters bring the hunter to the animal, not cameras. Outfitters have been taking hunters to animals way before cameras were even a thing.

Fact.

Fact.

Fact.

Cameras can't always pattern early fall big mule deer bucks, but outfitters can. They do it all the time.

Fact.

Stop pretending to be the smartest one in the room 'cause you aren't.

Fact.
Click to expand...
Don’t argue with the Roadrunner….

He fancies HIMSELF as the smartest one in the room…. About everything…
 

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