B Zones....2 tags?

eelgrass · May 11, 2009

Lately I've been trying to figure out why Fish&Game has kept the limit to two deer a year in the B zones. I'm probably going to step on a few toes here but that's OK. I'll try to give my reasons why I think the limit should be one, and you are welcome to tell me why you think I'm wrong.

1.I think deer numbers have fallen over the years, due to many factors. Loss of prime habitat and mountain lions mostly. But regardless of why, numbers are way down. Sure, there are pockets of deer here and there, (but they never seem to last long) and some private ranches have healthy populations. I don't know how F&G counts blacktails, or even if they do, but I doubt if they can justify the two deer limit based on scientific data. It's not like we have concentrated winter grounds to count. Ninety percent of my hunting friends complain about very few deer. Are we all wrong? I doubt it.

2. It encourages party hunting. You know the old scenario, "I killed one opening day, so if I get another one my wife/son/buddy has two tags. Someone else can tag it so I can keep hunting." I know guys who kill 3 or 4 deer a year and never tag out.

I think we could have a higher quality hunt if they dropped the limit to one. Maybe even move the season back a bit to have a chance at some cooler weather. Or even have a longer season.

What would be the down side? If the population climbs back they can always go back to two tags.

One of the reasons I worry is because I have almost zero confidence in our states' management policies.

Eel

silverstatehunter · May 11, 2009

Couldn't agree more!!! Especially with the #2 Senario. I know a group of people that hunt deer like you hunt Pheasants. Line up a huge group of people and shoot anyhting you jump that has horns. Doesn't matter who shoots the deer someone has a tag.

kilowatt · May 11, 2009

Make it a 4 pointer or better....and not EASTERN COUNT EITHER.

Brian

Buckhunter1 · May 11, 2009

Hey Eel its got to be a money thing for the fish and game. One tag would be fine with me. The problem with 4x4 only areas is having to step around all the dead 2x2 and 3x3 bucks that all the trigger happy slobs would leave to rot. Just my thoughts. BH1

Drnaln · May 11, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-11-09 AT 11:02AM (MST)[p]I also think it's time to go to a single B tag & if you want to "step on toes" just mention choose your weapon like Oregon has.I would like the state to only issue 1 tag & pick your hunting method!
David

eelgrass · May 11, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-11-09 AT 11:59AM (MST)[p]Kilo, I understand your thinking about raising the age class but the 4X4 restriction isn't quite as relevant with blacktails. Lots of blacktails never make 4X4 racks. It's a genetic thing I guess. Some coastal bucks never get above 2X2.

Eel

Edit: By the way, I agree Drnaln. I think that's a good idea.

sageadvice · May 11, 2009

Eelgrass +1 You make some great points!

It's all about the money and now that the C zones fill up, B zones offer a lot of tags to those who need public land to hunt and are willing to help our states General Fund.

Joey

Hardway · May 11, 2009

I'd be ok with the one tag especially if it meant better dates or a longer season. As long as you dont take away my second tag all together, its one of the few reasons that keeps me from moving outta state

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

eelgrass · May 11, 2009

Deadred, you need to get off that private ranch and hunt with the poor folks once in awhile. Your vote doesn't count.

Eel

RACKMASTER · May 11, 2009

I never see single bucks in B zone always a group of 2 or more!
kinda nice having 2 tags!! however I feel CA should do away with the 2nd tag altogether and make everything a draw..yes even A zone...

Rackmaster

Deadred7o7 · May 11, 2009

>Deadred, you need to get off
>that private ranch and hunt
>with the poor folks once
>in awhile. Your vote doesn't
>count.
>
>Eel
>
>

Well someone didnt like my vote it got poofed lol

Kyle
"If it moves shoot it again"

califhuntn · May 11, 2009

Talk about reading minds I absolutely agree. It is all about the money. And it is the lack of money that would fund the agency from perform aerial surveys. California is a huge state with lots of public land so it would demand a huge chunk of money.

I am probably going to be blasted for this but I think the state should cut the tags to 1, increase prices and provide more tags to nonresidents. Of course they should pay a much higher fee. We get pissed at other states for not providing nonresidents with enough tags yet Cali is about the worse state when it comes to nonresidents. That's my 2cents.

JR

jchisum · May 12, 2009

heck maybe it's where we hunt but you could get 12 tags and it wouldn't matter to me any. amongst the 3-5 regs I hunt with we average 1 in camp each year. maybe less. but we don't spend more than the opener plus a few days and another weekend up there. the second tag lets me hunt D5 near home...

muleyczy · May 13, 2009

The reality of the situation is that California is only after the money. Which isnt all bad........if they re invested so money back into wildlife habitat. I personally think that if it wasnt for a few wildlife orginizations we would be in worse shape than now. California fish and game is ran by folks in San Fransico drinking lattes.

Compare California to other states. California dosent do anthing even close to manage wildlife like other states. Not even remotely close.

How about land owner tags? PLM tags...JOKE!

Late season archery, muzzleloader ect.. JOKE!

Junior hunts! Joke!

predetor controll! Even bigger joke! (Mountain lions)

Habitat restoration! Ya, if it's for the yellow legged frog or Condor's. (lead free biggest crock of s#$%t)

Anyway...........

RACKMASTER · May 13, 2009

WHY THE LATE SEASON HUNTS A JOKE!
WHY ARE THE JR HUNTS A JOKE!
AS FAR AS CONDOR LEAD OR NO CONDORS..then whats next!
California should never be compared with other states as far as hunting and it because of the number of deer, hunters, habitat,and legislation of the non hunters(ever go to a dfg committee meeting(almost all are open to public)!
I like lattes... some are just not educated enough and just want to to be redneckish(getter done, if its brown its down, if it flies it dies).
some want whatever with no effort it all!

Rackmaster

muleyczy · May 19, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-19-09 AT 05:06PM (MST)[p]Rackmaster,
I actually have gone to DFG meetings.

California could be competitive with other states if "they" or we wanted to be. California has good blacktail,bear,turkey, ducks, but California puts nothing back into the wildlife like other states. Take for example the fish projects in California. There is a ton of them why? Why not that much effort in the ever declining Mule deer herds! Idaho is way behind in management compared to other top states (colorado) but at least they are doing soemthing, while California does nothing.

33,000 tags available in D3-D5!!!!!!!!! What!!!!!!!!! Thats California management for you, theres not even that many deer in the whole stinkin state.

Im not a complete geter done redneck and I do strongly believe in good wildlife conservationship. The complete oposite of California's objectives and ideals. Plain and simple California's idea of hunting is.. you get what it is and nothing more! Be happy that we even allow you to still hunt. Where in other states kids take the freaking opener of deer off of school!!! Thats how important it is to them. You do that in California and youd be criminally prosectuted for contributing to the delequencie of a minor!

Mallards_Only · May 20, 2009

muleyczy pretty much nailed it with one caveat--CA sees hunting and hunters as a huge cash-cow to support all its other programs and socialistic organizations which are not self-sufficient. As hunters, we are partially guilty. Until we stand up as a unified front and demand that the millions of dollars we pump into DFG as a result of license/tag/stamp sales are used as intended, Arnie will continue to rape the coffers to support other worthless and inept programs. The Upland Stamp and Striper Stamps are prime examples. The Upland Stamp has reaped >$8 Million in revenue and not one penny has gone into Upland habitat or improvement of upland hunting programs. Same goes for the Striper Stamp although I don't have the dollar figure. As a lobbying force, we as hunters are very unorganized and until we band together and start demanding alternative actions with our $$$$, our F&G program will continue to be the worst in the U.S.

muleyczy · May 20, 2009

Well said Mallards_only. We will be our own dimise. We have the same goals, but different objectives.

$$$ is why they issue two tags in all units, (A,B,D) other than the so called premium zones in California.

nickman · May 20, 2009

Given the current state of our budget, it is very unlikely that the Department of Fish and Game will survive the rest of the year.

DFG employees are to be some of the first laid off, as they are not generally essential to the daily operations of the State.

Parks and Rec also.

tuleelk · May 20, 2009

Fish and Game will not be the first to be laid off because most of their funding does not come from the states general fund so laying them off saves the state nothing. Much like their pay decrease with the other state employees it saved the state practically nothing because the money is not out of the general fund. The state is messed up from the top down.

muleyczy · May 20, 2009

Does anyone actually know how much revenew is generated by license sales, deer tags ect. yearly?

Ive been told (F&G board memebers) that California uses all revenews generated from duck stamps directly to the management for ducks, fishing license go towards managing the fish hatchery's cost's, however; the upland stamp, deer tag, bear tag, hunting license's money's go into to a general fund. Does anyone know the actual numbers?

RACKMASTER · May 20, 2009

LAST EDITED ON May-20-09 AT 09:22PM (MST)[p]http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/h_items_10yr.pdf

http://www.wcb.ca.gov/pdf/Reports/ProtectingCalifornia2007.pdf

you guys really believe the take money from DFG to fund non DFG projects.....DOES NOT HAPPEND!!
DFG IS SELF AND FEDERAL FUNDED ONLY.... NOT PART OF THE STATE BUDGET!!

Rackmaster

nickman · May 20, 2009

Salaries, benefits, vehicles and maint. are all paid from the General fund.

Wardens, projects and programs, come from license, tag and fine revenues.

muleyczy · May 21, 2009

Rackmaster,
Not sure if your being sarcastic, but thanks for the links. You must work for FG?

Mallards_Only · May 21, 2009

>LAST EDITED ON May-20-09
>AT 09:22?PM (MST)
>
>http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/h_items_10yr.pdf
>
>http://www.wcb.ca.gov/pdf/Reports/ProtectingCalifornia2007.pdf
>
>
>
>you guys really believe the take
>money from DFG to fund
>non DFG projects.....DOES NOT HAPPEND!!
>
>DFG IS SELF AND FEDERAL FUNDED
>ONLY.... NOT PART OF THE
>STATE BUDGET!!
>

>
>Rackmaster

And this is why we, as hunters, will never see change. Unless this was meant to be sarcastic (and I suspect it wasn't), it's ignorance like this that perpetuates this myth. Either you work for DFG (and I suspect you don't as most DFG employees I've spoken with have confirmed just the opposite) or you've been brainwashed by the political propoganda. Many DFG employees are frustrated by the raping of the coffers by other gov. programs but fear speaking out for risk of losing their jobs. NOTHING in Arnie's administration is "Self-funded." He!!, now he's going to tap into the county property tax coffers to support his programs and you think he doesn't tap into DFG? The DFG makes money. But instead of using that money to improve hunting in CA, Arnie cuts DFG jobs (particularly the important ones like wardens and leaves upper level deadweight who do little other than collect a paycheck) so that there's more surplus funds to support other ridiculous socialistic programs with little benefit and no ability to fund themselves.

RACKMASTER · May 21, 2009

Like dem der fancy words, You must be edumacated!!

I LOVE ARNOLD..HES DONE MORE FOR THIS STATE THEN MANY ADMIT..TIMES ARE TOUGH ALL OVER FOR EVERYTHING SO PLEASE STOP SAYING.....THAT CRAP ...GET USED TO IT! IT WILL BE MANY YEARS BEFORE TIMES GET BETTER AND MONEY IS ROLLING IN AND WE ALL ARE WORKING..AND SHOOTING GREENS ONLY!

HECK THING ARE GOOD FOR ME RIGHT NOW...........SO NEVER MINE!

Rackmaster

muleyczy · May 21, 2009

Rackmaster,
two words, for ya..."arogant" and "ignorant" People like you are the ones running California fish and game. Why change its great!! Thanks

If you hunt california you should change your name to "Forkmaster" vs. Rackmaster.

Mallards_Only · May 24, 2009

Here's a link for you, Rackmaster.

http://www.dof.ca.gov/budget/histor...y_Revision_2009-10_General_Fund_Proposals.pdf

Now, get educated. In particular, I would refer you to page 13 where Arnold intends to take $30 Million from the Fish and Game Preservation Fund and shift it to the General Fund. Still think the DFG is self-funded?

RACKMASTER · May 24, 2009

i love arnie had his name one 1 ca elk tag and 2 ca antelope tags....!

Rackmaster

sageadvice · May 25, 2009

"i love arnie had his name one 1 ca elk tag and 2 ca antelope tags....!"

Rack, i hope you weren't driving last night. Your above statement would not have passed a sobriety test

Just exactly how "ALL" the F&G programs and expenses are funded, either by the revenue generated or otherwise remains a mystery to me and would be the subject of a great thread in itself. I've recently talked to two fairly high ranking retired employees and read a good deal on the subject. I've come to the conclusion that it's a well kept secret cause nobody seems to know for sure or we're not hearing the full truth. There is simply too many different versions told and i can't understand this as it's a public agency, no?

Joey

RACKMASTER · May 25, 2009

no I was not drinking...Just saying I love ARNIE and that when I drew the Marble Mountians any Elk Tag a few Years ago he signed the tag! same with my antelope tag and sons too! ARNIES doing the best he can given the times so what he take from here to pay for that .....would you rather loose teachers, cops, firefighters, health care...AGAIN LOOK AT THE TIMES!!!!!!! GET A CLUE.... THE TIMES ARE THE WORST ...and once in a life time!
GREEN...WHO AND HOW COULD YOU MAKE IT BETTER??
Green what would you do?? the dems are going to raise taxes and thats ok, seems the only answer!

Rackmaster

sageadvice · May 25, 2009

"no I was not drinking"

Just kidding with you Rack. I'm usually the last guy to point out a spelling or typo error but couldn't put heads nor tails on that one.

I am curious though about your obvious liking of Gov. Arnie. I'm not saying that he's doing a bad job or that he's a bad Governor as he's been dealt a not so good a hand of cards but i'm thinking that it has been more the generations of license buying dedicated Sportsmen of this State, among others, that we can thank for any tags that we may draw. I know that i've been putting in for sheep since day 1, long before our present Gov. came to live in Sacramento.

Like the economy, things could be much better with our F&G dept. and with it too, change needs to be trimmed at the top levels as well as the obvious Joe Blows who are out there doing a needed job.

Joey

tylercreek2 · May 25, 2009

>>>>the dems are going to raise taxes and thats ok, seems the only answer!<<<<

omg rack , u really believe giving the people in sacto MORE money is the answer? they are already spending like drunken sailors,,,,, how in gods name can you possibly justify giving the very people who got the state into the sorry shape its in by spending more money than they had MORE money,,,, give them more of my money? tell u what you give them yours,,,, holy crap you just arguing with those guys to argue? that makes more sense than giving more money to the guys in sacto ,,,,,,

eelgrass · May 25, 2009

Poor Arnie has been dealt some pretty bad cards IMO. Like a 7,2 off suit. LOL! I like Arnie though.

When he was elected I had high hopes that he could work both sides of the isle. And I think he tried. But being heavy liberal thinking in this State, I think he got shot down a lot.

Not saying all of this is terrible bad but, we have the most strict environmental regulations in the nation, making it very unattractive to a lot of businesses. Top that with some of the highest taxes, and not only are businesses not comming to Kali, many are pulling out. Add to that, we have a very high rate of non-producers, because of our year around mild weather and high welfare pay. And a high rate of illegals too.

We're $42 billion in the hole, and Arnie is trying to raise taxes as much as he can. He raised the sales tax and the vehicle registration recently.

If you'll notice all the heavy "liberal" States are usually in a constant state of financial emergency. Hummmmmm......

Eel

RACKMASTER · May 25, 2009

I will take my 2 tag and hunt....California sucks ...everything is so expensive, our roads suck. Insurance is screwed! gas is the highest along with properties, rents! its the price you pay to live here.....I wish it was different and the Giants Rich Aurilia whos batting .177 breaks his leg and get va real slugger! (Thats another story)!
Seems we all are a bit frusterated just need to hang in there!

Rackmaster

muleyczy · May 26, 2009

Rack,
Sounds like you live in a different California than the rest of us. Let me know where it is and ill move in next door.

With your last comment about roads, insurance, gas ect.. what is the benifit of living here? You can where teva's, eat granola and tofu and save the yellow legged frog?

RACKMASTER · May 26, 2009

see "HUNTER HARRY" POST IN CAMPFIRE FORUM...........
(about why live in ca)

Rackmaster

Hardway · May 27, 2009

>see "HUNTER HARRY" POST IN
>CAMPFIRE FORUM...........
>(about why live in ca)
>

>
>Rackmaster

Ya but you live in San Jose Rack

lol

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

RACKMASTER · May 27, 2009

I don't get it Hardway what's wrong with san jose other than the mexicans....home values are great, jobs are great, wild boar hog roaming the streets on garage day, close to fishing!

Rackmaster

eelgrass · May 28, 2009

The best thing about San Jose is you can ride the train directly to AT&T Park!

Eel

Hardway · May 28, 2009

>I don't get it Hardway what's
>wrong with san jose other
>than the mexicans....home values are
>great, jobs are great, wild
>boar hog roaming the streets
>on garage day, close to
>fishing!
>
>

>
>Rackmaster

Too many people, along with the rest of the bay area. Hell I live in Ceres/Modesto and there's too many people over here! I'm glad we have a mt range in between us.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

RACKMASTER · May 28, 2009

still do not understand you Hardway..CERES in not part of Modesto!!! "Ceres" heck its like the Battle Mt of the Central Valley! I know what am talking about I own a house on Gagos dr in Modesto over buy costco off Palendale! what trailer park you live in over there?

Rackmaster