Barnes tmz vs shockwave Bonded for elk in New Mexico
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FrontierGander
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you're comparing a bad ass awesome "Barnes" bullet, to junk. Barnes all the way. Im using the 250gr thor " full bore barnes" for elk and no problems taking a 200 yard shot.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
txhunter58
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I certainly think any kind of Barnes bullet is about the toughest bullet you could choose. I don't think you can go wrong with them.
I haven't shot the shockwaves at anything but before you take the word of someone that they are junk, I would ask them how many elk they have shot or seen shot with them and how many "no problem" shots they have taken at elk at 200 yards.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
I haven't shot the shockwaves at anything but before you take the word of someone that they are junk, I would ask them how many elk they have shot or seen shot with them and how many "no problem" shots they have taken at elk at 200 yards.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
FrontierGander
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sst/shockwaves have history of either fragging or penciling through leaving poor blood trail or no blood trail, JUNK
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
txhunter58
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-12 AT 05:53PM (MST)[p]
Maybe so, but how many have you shot at an animal? Before I would call something junk, I would have to go on more than hearsay. And was it on a deer or elk that you "heard" it penciled through. "I have heard they are junk" would be a different matter.
GOutes: As far as 250 vs. 300, I would personally use 290-300. In someone elses hands, 250 may be enough, but where elk is concerned, I just feel better with 290-300 and it doesn't affect the bullet drop that much. I have heard that the 290 gr barnes is a really good bullet
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Maybe so, but how many have you shot at an animal? Before I would call something junk, I would have to go on more than hearsay. And was it on a deer or elk that you "heard" it penciled through. "I have heard they are junk" would be a different matter.
GOutes: As far as 250 vs. 300, I would personally use 290-300. In someone elses hands, 250 may be enough, but where elk is concerned, I just feel better with 290-300 and it doesn't affect the bullet drop that much. I have heard that the 290 gr barnes is a really good bullet
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
I've seen a couply shockwaves which were recovered from elk. They killed the elk but they didn't hardly expand. I've shot a deer at 200 yards with a barnes and based on the size of the exit wound and internal damage I would say it expanded nicely. I wouldn't hesitate shooting an elk with a 250 grain tmz. You will get a little better penetration with a 290 or 300 grain bullet. I'm sure the elk would know the difference. I vote tmz or tez.
Sorry FG, I do not share the same opinion as you. Yours seem to be based on others reports. I have first hand experience with the SST at BP/Sub as well as smokeless ML velocities on deer sized game and they work great. I will have the 300 gr Bonded SW in my ML in October for NM bulls. This is a 250 gr SST that was being pushed 2600 fps. It did not frag, but it did shed some weight. The deer dropped DRT.
FrontierGander
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2600 FPS is a lot faster than what normal muzzle loaders push them at. Even hornady wants around 1800 fps by the time it impacts the game in order to open properly.
SST/SW are like powerbelts, you either love them or hate them.
Barnes IS the better bullet for elk.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
SST/SW are like powerbelts, you either love them or hate them.
Barnes IS the better bullet for elk.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
>Even hornady
>wants around 1800 fps by
>the time it impacts the
>game in order to open
>properly.
>
>www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
Wow, this is suprising. I shoot these to 300 yards and they have fragged water jugs just fine. I have not seen on their packaging or their web site where they require 1800 fps at impact speed to expand. Your credibility factor is up there with Toby's. Even with the 100 gr charges that gives you 1920 fps the bullet will be sub 1800 fps by 35 yards. Puh-lease
I have nothing against the Barnes bullets but the SST flies better at long range for me, so they will be my choice.
>wants around 1800 fps by
>the time it impacts the
>game in order to open
>properly.
>
>www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
Wow, this is suprising. I shoot these to 300 yards and they have fragged water jugs just fine. I have not seen on their packaging or their web site where they require 1800 fps at impact speed to expand. Your credibility factor is up there with Toby's. Even with the 100 gr charges that gives you 1920 fps the bullet will be sub 1800 fps by 35 yards. Puh-lease
I have nothing against the Barnes bullets but the SST flies better at long range for me, so they will be my choice.
FrontierGander
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give hornady a call.
I'll get a picture off a friend who shot the 250 version and recovered it, then you can judge real performance vs poor.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
I'll get a picture off a friend who shot the 250 version and recovered it, then you can judge real performance vs poor.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
FrontierGander
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250gr SW from a bull shot at 70 yards.
txhunter58
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Wow, at least we are having an intelligent disscussion now! .
Please tell us where in the body the elk was shot and how far he went and where the bullet was recovered from. Also, your picture is not clear so I can't tell much about the bullet. Looks like it opened up somewhat and retained a good portion of the rear section. Must have been recovered from inside a dead elk. Not quite "penciling through". Did it hit any bones, etc.
Frontier, I know I can give you a hard time when I feel it is justified, but seriously, since I may have to make this same decision on a Utah bull hunt someday, I am now interested. I suspect I will try a barnes bullet first, but if barnes shoots 5 inches at 200 yards and these bullets shoot 2-1/2 inches, it will be good to know more than I do now.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Please tell us where in the body the elk was shot and how far he went and where the bullet was recovered from. Also, your picture is not clear so I can't tell much about the bullet. Looks like it opened up somewhat and retained a good portion of the rear section. Must have been recovered from inside a dead elk. Not quite "penciling through". Did it hit any bones, etc.
Frontier, I know I can give you a hard time when I feel it is justified, but seriously, since I may have to make this same decision on a Utah bull hunt someday, I am now interested. I suspect I will try a barnes bullet first, but if barnes shoots 5 inches at 200 yards and these bullets shoot 2-1/2 inches, it will be good to know more than I do now.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
FrontierGander
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hey im just trying to help and give the best advice possible. I don't care how much the bullet costs, its only going to be used once or twice in the field depending on how many tags you have or if you are a bad shot. Use the best bullet you get and you'll feel a lot more comfortable knowing so after you pull the trigger.
These sst & sw's just do not have a solid record at being good on game. I use a lot of bullets on my hunts and some are just horrible and while they work, you have to provide people that info on such and such bullet. I've tested the SW's in wet sand in the past and even through water jugs, they simply are a very questionable bullet and one that i feel is way down on the list of good bullets to use.
Top 3 bullets for a guaranteed good experience: Barnes - Lehigh - Nosler.
Accuracy was brought up in an earlier post. Sure, accuracy means a lot, but if that bullet performs poorly, you just stuck yourself in the rear end. I can shoot deer with powerbelts and know my accuracy is great but also know they fragment like an egg hitting a wall, or i can spend less and go with Thors and know they are accurate out to 200 yards and that they hold together and open up just under 1" in diameter on simple rib flesh.
Its your elk hunt, its your money which im sure you spent a lot on getting there along with the price of the elk tag.
Do you really want to take a chance just because the others are cheaper and come pre packaged?
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
These sst & sw's just do not have a solid record at being good on game. I use a lot of bullets on my hunts and some are just horrible and while they work, you have to provide people that info on such and such bullet. I've tested the SW's in wet sand in the past and even through water jugs, they simply are a very questionable bullet and one that i feel is way down on the list of good bullets to use.
Top 3 bullets for a guaranteed good experience: Barnes - Lehigh - Nosler.
Accuracy was brought up in an earlier post. Sure, accuracy means a lot, but if that bullet performs poorly, you just stuck yourself in the rear end. I can shoot deer with powerbelts and know my accuracy is great but also know they fragment like an egg hitting a wall, or i can spend less and go with Thors and know they are accurate out to 200 yards and that they hold together and open up just under 1" in diameter on simple rib flesh.
Its your elk hunt, its your money which im sure you spent a lot on getting there along with the price of the elk tag.
Do you really want to take a chance just because the others are cheaper and come pre packaged?
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
txhunter58
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"I can shoot deer with powerbelts and know my accuracy is great but also know they fragment like an egg hitting a wall"
Wow, there is a sentence I never thought I would see you write.
But I digress. I thought we were going to have an intelligent disscussion about the bullet in question, and you didn't answer any of my questions about your "bullet failure".
I have always considered the nosler in the top group too, but didn't they stop making them? I am going on what I have been told there as I don't shoot sabots.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
Wow, there is a sentence I never thought I would see you write.
But I digress. I thought we were going to have an intelligent disscussion about the bullet in question, and you didn't answer any of my questions about your "bullet failure".
I have always considered the nosler in the top group too, but didn't they stop making them? I am going on what I have been told there as I don't shoot sabots.
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
GOutes
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Guys,
Love seeing all the great info here. Trust me, I am taking all this in and making an informed decision. Love the passion in the posts!
Shot the shockwaves today and they were 1/2 inch groupings at 200 yards. I ordered some Barnes spitfire tez online and will test those out as well.
If I can get close to the same groupings, I'm gonna revisit the info you guys have illustrated above!
I agree with the comment about cost. I will pay more for a bullet if it performs better. Especially if I have one chance at a trophy animal.
Love seeing all the great info here. Trust me, I am taking all this in and making an informed decision. Love the passion in the posts!
Shot the shockwaves today and they were 1/2 inch groupings at 200 yards. I ordered some Barnes spitfire tez online and will test those out as well.
If I can get close to the same groupings, I'm gonna revisit the info you guys have illustrated above!
I agree with the comment about cost. I will pay more for a bullet if it performs better. Especially if I have one chance at a trophy animal.
VTelkchaser
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-28-12 AT 05:32PM (MST)[p]Barnes TMZ hands down. If you can get them in the gun they flat out perform the Shockwaves. I have recovered several Shock waves out of both deer and elk and while they did the job they did not perform any where near as good as the TMZ.
Below is the bullet I recovered from my 6x6 two years ago. He was shot broadside at 150 yards thru BOTH shoulders and the bullet was recovered between the meet and hide on the opposite shoulder. The bullet broke both shoulders completely and he never took a step.
The 250 grain bullet weighed 248 grains after I cleaned it up.
Below is the bullet I recovered from my 6x6 two years ago. He was shot broadside at 150 yards thru BOTH shoulders and the bullet was recovered between the meet and hide on the opposite shoulder. The bullet broke both shoulders completely and he never took a step.
The 250 grain bullet weighed 248 grains after I cleaned it up.
DonVathome
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I shot T/C shockwave, I thought they were grat???? 300 grain. I have taken 1 elk that went 30 yards, pass through so I have no good experiance with bullet performance BUT I would not really want my bullet to expand? For the same reason I shoot smaller broadheads at elk then at deer. I want penetration.
DonVathome
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Also I do not think mine are the bonded? They are older and it does not say bonded on the label #8230 spire point is on label.
txhunter58
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If you can stand the price, looks like you found your bullet!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
FrontierGander
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price of the barnes is cheap compared to the $$$ that goes into the actual hunt.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
FrontierGander
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lol there ya go! Cheaper for a better performing bullet always wins. You'll be happy when you anchor an elk with one too.
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
www.FrontierMuzzleloading.com
txhunter58
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Yep and Cabelas is never the cheapest place to get them:
http://www.natchezshooterssupplies.... cal 250 gr Spit-Fire TEZ 24/box&startRow=176
Didn't realize they came in packs of 24, Cabelas leaves that off the description.
Will definitely take a look at that bullet when my Utah elk tag comes through!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
http://www.natchezshooterssupplies.... cal 250 gr Spit-Fire TEZ 24/box&startRow=176
Didn't realize they came in packs of 24, Cabelas leaves that off the description.
Will definitely take a look at that bullet when my Utah elk tag comes through!
txhunter58
venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
quickdrawkinker
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>Shot the Barnes 300 grain TEZ
>today. They actually went down
>my TC Prohunter Easier than
>the shockwave's!,,,
>
>At 100 yards I had 1/2-1
>inch groupings!,,,, I may be
>onto something here!,,
Which powder and how many grains???
>today. They actually went down
>my TC Prohunter Easier than
>the shockwave's!,,,
>
>At 100 yards I had 1/2-1
>inch groupings!,,,, I may be
>onto something here!,,
Which powder and how many grains???
T
Twopointdn
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290 g tmz looked good on my target friday. Not under an inch but close enough for me. 1 3/16 @ 100 yards some wind.
