Berger vld vs nosler accubond

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justr_86

Long Time Member
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Which bullet is better for long range hunting/shooting? The BC on both are comparable and I shoot Accubond and love them but alot of long range sports prefer Berger. I'm curious to know the pros and cons to both. I'm looking at the 168 Berger for 7 mag, 160 Accubond.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
Im shooting the 168gr vld in my 7mm and have been very happy with the results. Extremely accurate and deadly. I haven't shot the accubonds but they are one of my favorite bullets also. Why not test both of them at long range and see which works better in your rifle. Imo for long range the Berger makes more sense. The design of the bullet and the way it expends its energy into an animal makes for quick kills.
 
One hang up on the Berger is i'm having a hard time finding load data for them.... I will be hand loading for it.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
The bc is really not that close, .617 for the berger and. 531 for the nosler. That difference, well, makes a difference. You can email berger for load data and they will send it to you
 
I heve killed deer out to 600 yards and elk out to 750yards with my 325 wsm 200g accubond. Very acurate and gets the job done!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-12 AT 07:19PM (MST)[p]I dont think the Berger is a better built bullet. It may shoot a little flatter, but either way you still have to know the drop. I am really happy with accubonds.
 
I shoot the berger 168 out of my 7mm and I have had good luck with it. Extremeley accurate and quick kills. Bullet placement is the key with any bullet. Seems like the accubond is more popular. I would shoot either bullet. I would go with the one my gun liked the best.
 
Justr I have shot berger bullets for two years now and have had great success. In response to your difficulty finding load data, here is the load data that Berger sent me when I started loading their bullets. Hope this helps.

Hi,
Load data was generated using Quick Load a 26 inch barrel a COAL over all length of 3.290 inches and your COAL and velocity could be a little different.

AS WITH ALL RELOADING APPROACH THE MAXIMUM LOADS WITH CAUTION AS ALL RIFLES AND RELOADING TECHNIQUES WILL BE DIFFERENT. If YOU CHANGE ANY OF YOUR COMPONENTS; THIS INCLUDES DIFFERENT POWDER LOT NUMBERS; YOU MUST REFIGURE YOUR LOADS BY STARTING WITH THE MINIMUM LOAD.



If we can be of any additional help feel free to contact us.

Thanks for your interest and have a great day.



Walt Berger

Berger Bullets

Technical Adviser



7mm REMINGTON MAGNUM
Bullet Powder Start Load Approximate Start Velocity MAX LOAD Approximate Max Velocity Fill Ratio
168 Grain IMR 7828 SSC 62.0 2855 65.3 3002 95.1%
168 Grain H4831 SC 61.0 2731 64.5 2889 93.4%
168 Grain RE-22 62.0 2832 65.0 2984 96.2%
168 Grain H1000 66.0 2826 69.5 2987 100.1%
168 Grain NORMA MRP2 65.0 2812 68.5 2970 102.4%
168 Grain WIN WXR 62.0 2838 65.3 2982 95.1%
168 Grain AA MAG PRO 65.0 2847 68.0 2984 95.9%
168 Grain Ramshot Magnum 67.0 2845 70.7 3019 98.7%
168 Grain VIHT N165 62.0 2760 65.3 2892 97.5%
168 Grain RETUMBO 66.0 2839 70.4 3022 104.7%
168 Grain RE-19 59.0 2799 62.4 2944 94.3%
168 Grain IMR 4350 55.5 2802 58.3 2920 88.1%
168 Grain IMR 4831 57.5 2772 60.5 2897 90.8%
168 Grain AA XMR 3100 61.0 2743 64.5 2888 96.5%
168 Grain VIHT N560 62.0 2851 65.6 3014 94.0%
168 Grain RE- 25 64.5 2875 67.8 3012 101.9%
168 Grain NORMA MRP 62.5 2868 65.7 3007 95.1%
168 Grain US869 74.5 2795 78.5 2987 113.7%
168 Grain Hybrid 100V 55.5 2730 58.5 2846 93.6%
168 Grain H4350 55.5 2781 58.8 2921 88.6%

Kind of hard to cut and paste this chart. If you would like a copy shoot me a pm and I can email it to you.
 
I shoot both justr. Both are good bullets and it all depends on what shoots better in that hot rod of yours. I wouldn't be afraid to shoot either one. I have heard that the Accubonds retain their weight a little better but I can't verify that.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Either Slug will do justr!

Tamp the Powder tight!

When the Neck cracks or when the Primer blows out, back the Powder off by half a Grain!:D

Least that's what REDDOG & Snort told me!:D




[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Justr,

I've shot both the 160gr Accubonds and the 168 Berger VLD's in my 7mm Mag. The Bergers shot much more accurate and the velocities were more consistent through the chronograph.

I was a little worried about the VLD's performance on game but I have some friends shooting them and they say they are devastating at any range, so I'm gonna try them on a deer or elk hopefully this fall.
 
For years the goal of the bullet makers was to produce a bullet which would penetrate (hold together) AND expand at lower velocities (longer ranges). They've finally done it with the bonding process (aka Accubond and others).
The VLD, while it usually shoots well and has a higher BC, does not meet the above criteria BUT lots of guys shoot them at game with success. Fragile bullets are nothing new.
If you're going to "hold over" or "dial" to make a long rage kill, I suspect a few additional inches of drop will not be a negative if you're getting the advantage of a more advanced bullet construction.
Shooting vs hunting, design vs construction of bullets will always be a topic for discussion.
Shoot whichever one you like best for deer, use more caution on elk.
As usual just my 2 cents.
Zeke
 
I shoot the Accubond out of my 300wm and love it! Boom thump dead! Well a160 Accubond pack enough punch at say 600 for elk?

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
Yes! With the right bullet, in the right spot, it will be a real slayer.
My thought has always been that the lighter the bullet, and the bigger the game, the more you need to be concerned about the bullet construction.
Zeke
 
On elk the bergers are dumping all the energy inside the body cavity of elk at long distances. (600+) We have found that it usually makes it through the front shoulder and really destroys the inside with minimal/ to no meat loss. I do shoot a 210 grain out of my 300 RUM at around 3100 fps.
 
I have found the berger to work very well on game at longer ranges. I really like the fact it penetrates 2-3" and then fragments. I have witnessed this first hand and love the results. DRT game with massive internal trauma. I have also had a large piece of the jacket pass thru and exit. As with any bullet shot placement is the most critical part and I trust the accuracy of the berger bullet. I have also witnessed some very close shots with the berger bullet and they did the job also.
 
The Bergers are a simple jacketed bullet that expands easily. People prefer them for long range hunting because they expand reliably at the lower velocities. Accubonds and other controlled-expansion bullets are designed specifically to expand slower. I prefer regular bullets for deer and long-range stuff, and controlled-expansion bullets for bigger game at moderate ranges. So I guess I'm recommending the Bergers.
 
>Mine likes retumbo 90 gr.
>Most factory barrels are shooting
>real well with 92 gr.
>
>>What powder and amount?


ABSOLUTELY do not follow this load for a 7mm Mag on the Berger or Accubond. Maybe a 7mm Rum.

Follow the loads listed in the chart above, they seem right for the Berger. I have two 7mmRM's and shoot Retumbo at 71.0 gr in one at ~3025 and R19 at 63.0 grains at 2875 in the other. These are what's accurate in each gun, with the latter being half moa to 700 yards.

I have killed two elk and two muley with the 168 bergers and 4 deer and 1 elk with the accubond. Bergers shred down about 80%, but ALWAYS penetrate including shoulders. Not one of these shot with the bergers has gone more than 10 yards, with most not taking 1 step. I prefer these bullets because I have worked very hard over 6 years to get comfortable to shoot now as far as 650 yards on game. I killed my deer at 575 with a lot of confidence. The better bc does help significantly, but only after 400 yards.

I also love the accubond, which is where I started. I also shoot a 25-06 and went from bergers back to accubonds with it as I did have two bad experiences with the bullets not expanding at all. Don't know if it was a bad lot of bullets or just the larger diameter allows for more reliable performance on the the bigger caliber. Anyway, my accubond kills, including the 25-06 and my son's .270 and .280 all seem to end up with 65% retention and the bullet laying against the hide on the opposite side even after passing both shoulders.

Again, both are great, if you shoot over 400 yards in the 7mm give the bergers a try. Start with H1000 and/or Retumbo and/or IMR7828 if you have it, with F215 primers about 2.0gr below max and work up from there. Play with the seating, starting with them kissing the lands. Watcht he pressure if you have a hot load and then try seating farther out. These bullets can be sensitive, but if you find the right combo, they work great.

Good luck.
 
IMO the Berger is a better long range bullet-depending on the caliber, but let's say 700 yards plus.

I believe the accubond is a better all around hunting bullet, especially on big critters up close.

Let's put it this way. If I had a mature bull at 200 yards I'd rather have an accubond. If the same bull was at 800 I'd rather have a Berger.

Both are great bullets and will do their part if you do yours.
 
This is my first year shooting the berger vlds. Prior to the bergers I have shot the accubonds and prior to the accubonds all I shot was the partition. This year my 7mm dakota killed 2 bull elk and one oryx with 180grn berger vlds at 400yds/500yds/275yds. from my limited experience with the berger vld I just think they are a little soft. I did have a pass thru on the 400 yd bull and he didn't even take a step. Just fell over slow motion 3 seconds after the shot. The other two animals dropped in their tracks. I would love if berger would come out with a bonded vld type bullet. That would be awesome!
 
I shoot both in different rifles. I like them both.

I have a friend that is a serious custom rifle builder that also is a serious competition shooter, and we just had this conversation. His answer to the question is; shoot Noslers if you don't plan to shoot further than 700 yards. If you are planning to shoot 700 on out to 1500 then shoot Bergers. He says that the accuracy of the Bergers is far superior to the Noslers at the longer ranges. At short ranges, it's identical.


I've killed game with both, and they perform totally differently when they impact, but both kill very efficiently if they hit the kill zone.

Hope that helps a bit.
DeerBeDead
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-12 AT 08:47PM (MST)[p]I don't have any intention to kill an animal past 600. I'll shoot at targets well past that but not animals.. Just my own preference... I think I will stick with the Accubond for hunting and probably use Berger when i'm shooting targets. Just have to get 2 turrets.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-12
>AT 08:47?PM (MST)
>
>I don't have any intention to
>kill an animal past 600.
>I'll shoot at targets well
>past that but not animals..
>Just my own preference... I
>think I will stick with
>the Accubond for hunting and
>probably use Berger when i'm
>shooting targets. Just have to
>get 2 turrets.
>
>
>
4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg



I think that is very logical, but your decision should be made after shooting them. If your gun shoots 2.0MOA on the accubonds, then you will be looking for a plan b.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-02-12 AT 08:53AM (MST)[p]>This is my first year shooting
>the berger vlds. Prior to
>the bergers I have shot
>the accubonds and prior to
>the accubonds all I shot
>was the partition. This year
>my 7mm dakota killed 2
>bull elk and one oryx
>with 180grn berger vlds at
>400yds/500yds/275yds. from my limited experience
>with the berger vld I
>just think they are a
>little soft. I did have
>a pass thru on the
>400 yd bull and he
>didn't even take a step.
>Just fell over slow motion
>3 seconds after the shot.
>The other two animals dropped
>in their tracks. I would
>love if berger would come
>out with a bonded vld
>type bullet. That would be
>awesome!


I appreciate your post but question your logic. You killed three elk sized animals in one year at ranges out to 500 yards and none even took a step and you are critical of the bullet? Based on what?
 
My 7mm Rem Mag would shoot the 160 Accubonds at MOA, so far it has been shooting the 168 VLD's better than MOA. I feel like if I could shoot worth a crap it would consistently be 1/2 MOA with the VLD's.
 
I shoot the bergers because of the high BC. They shoot sub MOA in my 7mm dakota. I have only shot them on paper out to 750 yds and had a 5 inch group with two of the three holes almost touching dead center. I have shot walnuts out of trees with them at 400 yds with a safe back stop. Very impressed with how they shoot and placement is the most important factor in killing game cleanly in my opinion. However, I personally would feel more comfortable if the berger vld was bonded. Thats just what I would like. I have killed lots of big game with accubonds out to 500 yds and never had a problem and like that bullet also. If berger had a bonded vld thats all I would shoot. 88MAN
 
"when if's and but's are candy and nuts we'll sit down and have a party" LOL

Facts:
The VLD isn't bonded but has a higher BC.
The Accubond is bonded and has a high BC.
Both bullets have their loyal followers.
Both bullets have killed elk and deer etc.
Either bullets might shoot best in YOUR rifle.
Either bullet must be placed in the vitals to kill.

Opnion:
I'll take a bullet with better construction over a bullet that shoots 2" flatter at 600 yards. Either bullet might work but for game animals I'll use a premium hunting bullet over target bullet.
Remember, "bullet placement is KING but penetration is QUEEN!"

Zeke
 
I used to shoot accubonds. They did the job. Switched to Bergers and have noticed a big difference in how fast the berger puts animals down.
When I first started using Berger I was a little worried because of those that dont like them, say its not a hunting bullet. Well my worry quickly went away when I killed deer after deer, elk after elk, bear ect. And I realized that those that dont like them usually have very little experience shooting game with them. In my experiences the berger bullet does a ton more damage to internal organs, puts animals down faster with less tracking and it does not matter the distance! Ive had many exit holes with the berger from 200-934 yards so something is staying together. Shot my Bighorn Sheep this year at 330 yards and had a big exit hole behind the shoulder. Shot a deer @ 25 yards and it looked like you stuck a bomb in its chest.
Ya a bonded bullet sounds nice but I'll take a bullet that does more damage anyday. And on those not so perfect shots you have a much better chance or recovering the animal from the way the Berger performs instead of penciling through.
I dont just favor Berger becase I shoot them. I favor them because I have shot 10+ animals with both and have seen the difference, and there is no comparison.
 
Boot, My last five bucks or so taken were stoned with what i would consider "outstanding" performance in Accubond bullets.

Pencil through? Not sure what you mean here. You could run a broomstick thru the wound channel of those bucks. Nothing against Bergers, have just found a very accurate and deadly bullet in the Accubond.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Accubonds a great bullet, does a good job. Pencil through occurs more with the barnes. The farther you shoot the more it pencils with less expansion. If it works for you great.
 
Boot, i'm hearing rumors that Berger is coming out with a .277 VLD. Someone said it'll have a B.C. of near .7

As much as i like the Accubond, i'd just have to try some of those baby's out in my WSM.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Sage, so far the 150 gr Match Grade VLD .277 bullet's BC is 0.531. Im no expert but I dont see the .277 nearing .7 unless its a 200+ gr slug. But if it does happen I will put them to use.
 
It's not Nosler or Berger but I have some Matrix Ballistics 165 .277 Match VLDs with a BC of .738. I have not shot many but they seem to be great so far? For my hunting load I currently use 140 Accubonds in .277 but would be interested in berger in a .7 bc.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-12 AT 07:51PM (MST)[p]"Sage, so far the 150 gr Match Grade VLD .277 bullet's BC is 0.531."

I'm just repeating what, i think it was Reddog, said on a thread in the guns and shooting Forum. Still, .53 is not a bad BC at all, wasn't even aware that the Berger .277 bullet is already out, just not a high enough BC to make it worth it for me to change from the nice success i've had with the Accubond. I'm only a 500yd, maybe 600 yd guy at most anyway and that's if the stars all line up properly... :)

Thanks for the heads up Boot!!

Edit, Utah400, Thanks for that info. Maybe that's what Dog was talking about.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
If you get too much of a longer, higher BC you'll need to think about the barrel twist to stabilize them. It's not a problem, you just might need a new barrel to shoot them.
I had to go to a 1 in 8" twist with a 6mm WSM to use the long 95-115 gr high BC bullets. They are cool and shoot well but I don't need to use it on big game... so I won't.
Zeke
 
Berger .270 Hybrid out in April

1.52" long
170 grains
Recommended twist 1:8.5"
Estimated G1 BC: 0.703
Estimated G7 BC: 0.360
 
That would be an awesome bullet providing you reach adequate velocities and have the proper twist. It should ding the gong with regularity!

Krieger barrel... $350, custom installation.... $350, dinging the gong... priceless!

Zeke
 
The 270 and 7mm hybrid hunting bullets will be a great bullet from Berger. Only problem is they are heavy for caliber requiring a faster twist. Most factory guns wont be fast enough to stabilize them.

Erick at berger has said they are also working on a bonded hunting vld. They have tried them in the past but the bullet wouldnt meet their standard of accuracy which is 1/4moa. The new bullet wont have to pass such a strict test as 1/2moa is more than acceptable.
 
>Berger .270 Hybrid out in April
>
>
>1.52" long
>170 grains
>Recommended twist 1:8.5"
>Estimated G1 BC: 0.703
>Estimated G7 BC: 0.360


The problem with that is the required twist... Not sure of any factory rifles with a twist faster than 10"... That means a custom tube and one would be chasing his tail ordering a custom tube for a 270 Win... May as well start with a 7mm..

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Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
In my case, getting another barrel installed would neither be much of a problem nor much of an expense. I bought my control round feed mod 70 270WSM from my neighbor who i have referred to here before as the shootist. He literally loads and shoots at one range or another every day and has for many years.

When i first had the opportunity to buy this rifle, he assured me that there was still barrel life left but i was uncertain. My bench skills are only fair but my loads have been shooting right at 3/4", occasionally better, but i know that there are several thousand rounds already down that bore.

I have a gunsmith that works at a very reasonable price and have had great success with reasonably priced PacNor match grade barrels who generally kicks out what you need without the long wait some barrel Co's mandate.

My problem again though is that i'm not a bell dinger type of guy being more of a hunter that enjoys the occasional range time that i do get in. Do i need a 1000yd rifle? I purposely limit my shots on game to 500 yds and have been successful out to that range several times. I do though believe 500 yds to be one hell of a long ways to be shooting at game. My 140 Accubond hand loads do wonderful out there at my limit and i suspect that they would perform great even farther if i had the certain skills or desire to do so.

I'm really glad to see Berger putting out the .7 B.C. Bullet though as the .264 and .284 guys ill no longer be able to hold their nose up above the cases like my 270WSM, 270 Win, and the 270 Weatherby only because the bullets they could get were of higher B.C. and those of .277 were not made or purely a custom item. To me anyway, swapping out a barrel to one with a 8.5 or 9-1 twist, if i choose to, is no big deal.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I'm supposing you've all looked into the differences in "drop" and "drift" that we're talking about!
It take lots of yardage for a slower yet higher BC bullet to overtake a faster bullet.
Wind drift is a function of BC and TOF etc.
I think we're splitting hairs ( or since we're hunters "splitting hares! LMAO)

PS: Just because a bullet CAN shoot .25 MOA does NOT mean it WILL shoot .25 MOA in any given rifle. The bullet is only one fraction of overall accuracy.

Good information is...well... revealing!


Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-06-12 AT 10:18AM (MST)[p]you may be right on the 277. My Factory Remington 7MM STW, 1-9 x 26" so I may try them.
 
Been using the 169 Berger VLD in my Kimber Montana 7mm WSM for a few years now. Cant complain at all about them. Have taken 2 mule deer, two antelope, one elk, and one whitetail. As others have said they tend to fragment inside and do tons of damage to organs, literally dropping most animals. I was skeptical at first but not after seeing their performance first hand.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-07-12 AT 04:11PM (MST)[p]The bergers have better accuracy at ranges beyong 600 yards. I took a Big alaskan bull moose at 639 yards with a 180 berger out of a 7wsm. My longest kill (790 yards)was with an accubond.I have never lost an animal yet with a berger. Both animals went right down. Ridgeline is right though......bergers are hard on capes inside 100 yards. Both kill animals dead though. I like the accubond a little better in my 25 06 the berger better in my 7wsm.
 

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