Best F&G Dept????

C

Califelkslayer

Long Time Member
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Just curious on everybodies thoughts about which state's Game and Fish Department is doing the best job?

My personal opinion is Wyoming is #1 with Nevada a close #2 and Colorado #3. This is based on my perspective of how they manage their resources, their draw system and the interaction I've had with their employees.

Wyoming G&F employees I've dealt with have been highly professional and helpful. Nevada employees not very helpful but I love their draw system and their management. Colorado employees have been professional, friendly and helpful with one exception but their draw system sucks. My opinion.

Oregon's miniscule allotment of NR tags is a joke and although their employees have been good and their license fee is reasonable, I can't get over the 1.5% allotment for NR antelope tags.

We're paying their way, what do you think?
 
I agree Oregon is hands down the worst place out west far as Non Res go. I am not real happy with AZ in the last couple of years with there draw system. As far as the best i think hands down it is NV. They are all about the heards being healthy and trying to keep up good trophys in all units not just 2 or 3. Plus they do have the best draw system out there hands down in my book.
 
I don't see a problem with Oregon, and I hunt there as a non-resident. As a NR, I can hunt mule deer there just about every year if I apply for the right hunt, or at least every other year. Or if I choose, I can simply buy an OTC tag and hunt blacktails. Elk are about the same way, a NR can expect to draw a good tag at least every 3 or 4 years, or buy an OTC tag and hunt Roosevelts in western Oregon. Yes they do limit NR's to only 5% of the deer and elk permits for each hunt, but this is only a factor in the "trophy" units. Now for the antelope, not sure where you get the 1.5 percent, it's 3 percent, and while that is very low, it's understandable when demand is much higher than the supply, and residents ought to have preference when it comes to drawing tags in their own state. It really does make much more sense to hunt Wyoming or Montana if you really want to hunt antelope. I would have to say Nevada is one of the worst states for NR's. Yes their management is great, but for a NR to apply there it is very expensive, and takes many years of building up points to even have a small chance of drawing a good tag. At least in Oregon there is always the option of hunting the general deer and/or elk season with an OTC tag. With Nevada (or Arizona) you're simply throwing away your money when you purchase the hunting license.
 
I'll cast another vote for Nevada. They manage their animals wisely. It has the best draw system. The unit that I hunt, you should draw a rifle tag every 4-5 years. If you bow hunt much sooner. My dealings with the biologists have been very good. They were friendly and helpful. I think that CO is managing their resources very good. I'm not a huge fan of their draw system though. I wish Idaho would get some sort of system similar to Nevada's. I would like a better shot at a tag for the money I have spent there for hunting licenses. Oregon is one of the few states doesn't get my money.

Don Pezer
 
as far as departments (not app serv's)...
Wyoming........
Colo/Nv...
Ca/utah..
rm
 
My picks for the average hunter. If you've got lots of money then Utah moves way up the list.

Nevada
Colorado
Arizona
Wyoming
New Mexico
Montana
Idaho
Utah

I'm not really familiar with California or the northwest.....
 
I'd have to say CO. I personally like their draw system. The people with the most points draw and if you don't draw there are plenty of undersubscribed tags to be had with some good oppurtunity if your willing to work. They have more elk than any state in the union and you can own a statewide bull tag every year. Not the biggest bulls in the west, but at least the oppurtunity is there every year. IMO they mange their game better than any state out there; it is evident in the amount of tags available and the number of quality animals harvested every year. I think NV does a nice job as well. It's crap that they make you buy a lic to get a bonus point, but other than that, I think they do a great job with game management. Utah gets an "F' in the game management arena. Lots of big bull elk with very little oppurtunity to hunt them. A few units with big bucks with very little oppurtunity to hunt them. Worst general season elk and deer hunts anywhere. Wildlife meetings...I have attended several...are a joke. They will table the same issues year after year. Utah DWR philosophy is "how can we maintain the quality in the limited entry units" when it should be "what can we do state wide to improve the quality. Utah DWR has Tunnel vision. Sorry for the rant.

Mike
 
Bob D. The reason there is only 1.5% chance for lopes is because if there is a unit that has a guide in it he gets 1.5% and the public gets the other half. If it is any kind of unit at all u bet there is a guide in there. The deer is the same way. They give 2.5% of the 5% given to non res to guides. It is the only state i wished someone would sue them for turning there back on non res on public ground. Yea sure u can go hunt every year for forken horns and dink bucks but not this guy. There is no state out there in the west that offers 50 tags for a good unit and there might be 2 tags go to non res hunters and that is a big ? even if the tags go to a non res becuase they are not even a sure thing. They might end up all in the res pool of tags. A few of the top units have had 2to 3 years in a row where there were no non res picked even though there was 20 to 25 tags offered. What a load of crap. OR is for sure the biggest joke in the west and the F&G does not even no what the word trophy means. I live in CA and i can tell u with out a doubt ca has better draw hunts and a way better draw system and i think CA sucks. OR has alot great deer country and they just throw it away with tons of tags and bad season dates. Then in there trophy elk units they put a few million spike tags the week before your hunt or at the same time. If i didnt have so many points i could care less but that is just not the case . After re reading my post i think i just need a beer or something.lol
 
I know all about half of the non-resident deer and elk tags going to outfitters, but I don't believe it's that way with antelope. Check the regulations. You might be surprised.
 
Maybe i am wrong about lopes but i dont think so and even if i am, 3% is a slap in the face for a non res. These lopes are on public ground for the most part and u and i own the public ground so how can anybody with clear thinking think that this is fair. Now that i think about it Ca is the most unfair to non res when it comes to elk and lopes. But they put no limits on the deer. Not that very many guys want to hunt Ca as a non res.
 
For managing Mule Deer I would rank the states as the following:

1) Nevada
2) Colorado
3) Arizona
4) Wyoming
5) New Mexico

.
.
.
47) Florida
48) Rhode Island
49) New York
50) Utah

I may be off by one or two but I think that is very close to an accurate ranking.

Muleydoc
 
I often think that the Indian Rez's do the best job of managing game.

They certainly manage their forests better.

Problem is affording to hunt there.

If you are a Resident, I believe that NM does the best for their residents. Where else can you hunt all of the major big game and also Oryx, Ibex and Barbary sheep??

Also, they have valle Caldera where the residents get 78% of the tags!!!
 
Its a toss up between Colorado and Nevada, with Wyoming in third, although their quality isn't as good as it used to be. Too bad about Utah, they have more data and information on hand than any other state, which the other agencies are very enviuos of, but UDWR doesn't apply it unless it involves elk. Mule deer are too hard to manage here I guess.
TM
 
LAST EDITED ON May-10-07 AT 10:43PM (MST)[p]Bob, thats 3% tags for NR's. 1/2 of those go to the guide/outfitter draw. Its 1.5%!!!! No other way to look @ it. There are units that have 25 deer tags and none go it the non-resident draw because the ONLY NR tag went in the outfitter/guide draw. ALL other states have at least a 10% allotment for non-residents or like Idaho, a cap of only 10% but you go in the draw with residents in Idaho. OREGON SUCKS!!

Rack, I agree with you.

This subject will vary depending on what your expectations are. Some like to paln a hunt a year or more in advance and with most draws, thats not possible. You go when you draw. I agree that Colorado has mega hunting opportunities, just their best units are out of reach for someone just getting into the game.
 
NMPaul, Even though residents get 78% of the tags, NR without a guide get 10%. Thats still 4X's better than Oregon for deer and elk, 7X's better than Oregon for antelope. Draw odds in NM are tough because,
1) They do have quality including good season dates.
2) The cost is minimal to apply.
Whose gonna complain about quality, good season dates and minimal cost???? NOT ME!!!!
 
In Oregon, the outfitters do not get 1/2 of the NR antelope tags, only 1/2 of the deer and elk tags. Unless something has changed that I haven't heard about.
 
New Mexico just tiik a GIANT step backward when it comes to managing botht their elk and deer herds. I guess public input had a few too many crybabies who wanted to kill something fairly easily and not have to work for it. Deer went back to a forked antler and they dropped the five point rule on elk. We were just starting to see the results of (three?) years of antler point restrictions! I am NOT happy with them at all.
 
The other rankings are hard to argue with.
I would rank them.
1) Nevada-Best bonus point system(Multiplier). Good to excellent quality in many units elk/deer. Good season dates.
2) Arizona-Good draw system (20% max, 10% non-res). Decent quality to good in all units. Over hunted in some units. Reasonable archery season Res/Non-Res in almost any unit.
3) Colorado-Average draw system (PP). OTC is good or bad. Poor quality elk, Excellent deer.
4) New Mexico-Average or good draw system (No..BP). Decent to good quality, in selected units. Poor quality in many units also.
5) Wyoming-Could rank anywhere I don't know much about Wyoming but they seem to be a good State.
6) Utah-Draw system avg to poor. Almost PP. Excellent quality, but very hard to draw. Overhunted in many areas, while possibly underhunted in others.
7) Oregon, Idaho, Montana-Don't know much about.
 
Cookie2, you are 100% correct. The deer numbers were much better this past year. I have a friend who is a game warden for the G&F and he said he had no idea why the dept gave up on a program that was having positive results..The 5 point rule was going to get the Gila Bulls back up to their mammoth history of being. The NM Dept G&F is very in-effective and it seems that this administration put into play with exempt positions by Governor Richardson(who I NOW DO NOT SUPPORT)is just a pay back to money donors and many of these persons are not qualified to be empoyeed by the Game & Fish.
 
I can't believe anyone would rate Wyoming 1st. They suck! If you went to region G or H over the last 10 years you would not rate them in the top 5. 1) Nv. 2) Az. 3) Colo.
 
Went to a regional NM G&F meeting when discussion about dropping the atler restrictions.

A couple of things were brought up - there were many forked horn bucks left to lay. While it seems that inducing the 3 point rule would be good. It has actually proven to be deteremental in other states that tired very similar restrictions.

So now when the meat hunter kills a forked horn buck they will tag it and there hunt is over - instead of leaving it for the varmits.

They other reason for this is that it had been detremental in other states is because the larger more mature deer were the only ones being sought after - with more beening killed because of this. This left the younger deer to breed - proven to not be as effective as the older bucks. Which proves to have later birth dates for many fawns which caused more fatality rates for the fawns.

???? - I am not sure where i stand as far as the Mule Deer atler restrictions - ???? i can see both sides and it has caused me to think about the subject. This dropping of the atler point restriction was brought to the table by the Mule Deer biologist of the state. I am hoping that he used science and biology to come to these recommendations. Talking with him it seems that he is trying to do what is right to improve the deer heards in NM. I think the statewide draw will have the best effect overall but only time will tell.

The same philosphey with the elk were used. Again I see both sides. I would like to see more and larger bulls to hunt - as would everyone. I would guess that basically it keeps the guy from hunting for the 1st several days for a "Trophy Bull" only to pull the trigger on the last day on a small raghorn. Which I have a problem with. My ethics/attitude is don't kill nothing on the last day that you would not shoot on the first day of the hunt. But that is just me.


Best F&G - well kinda depends on what you are seeking?

opportunity? trophy? mixture?

I am partial to NM. But apply to UT, AZ, CO looks like NV needs to be added for next year.
 
30inchbuck, great points brought up. I too heard of many fork horns left after being killed. I have to be honest as well, I've killed twice as many fork horn muleys as I have 3 or four points though I'd never leave one as I fall in the not a trophy hunter group.Time will tell but I also agree that the draw for deer being implemented state wide will be the best tool to help the deer herds get stronger, but again time will tell. I'm afraid the state may do away with that too for lack of the high revenues lost from over the counter deer tag sales.The only other gripe I have with the NM G&F is for 3 years straight , they have extended the draw dates from the original printed dates , again to increase in coming $$$ since now they only require the $6 app fee.
 
From a customer service standpoint - Wyoming

From a game management standpoint - Colorado or New Mexico. Both offer true trophy opportunities for big game species as well as units with high draw/OTC tags allowing for greater participation.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-13-07 AT 02:03PM (MST)[p]U may all laugh at me and im kinda laughing at myself as i say this but Washington is definitely creeping up the list. In the past 10-15 years the trophy potential in WA has increased dramatically all while still having OTC deer and elk seasons. The implementation of the spike only elk and 3 point minimum deer restrictions are helping and if u really want a any bull elk tag u can usually draw one every 7-8 years or so in the right areas, or just hunt the selkirk herd if you are willing to put in the legwork and the time.
 
NM Game & Fish.

Draw Great all the staff is fantasic.Nothing but helpfull.

Good Luck to you and yours

Joe
 
Wy g+f people are the best as far as helping you after you draw and they give great seasons too. Once I stopped a fella to inquire about deer on a logging road and as an afterthought he checked my tag and asked if he'd seen my habitat stamp... Well I didn't have one and he pulled it out from behind the seat and sold me one on the spot- I was clueless not trying to get away with something. I can guarantee you it would have been a ticket in this great state of Co. Made a lasting impression on me and I've seen nothing but similar situations when dealing with them although there was no law breaking going on in my other run-ins with them. But they go out of their way to be helpful.
 
califelkslayer , why dont you just buy that NR elk tag from the outfitter since a resident can not? And is that the Wenaha unit? unless you had at least 12 pref. points you didnt have a snowballs chance in h*ll any way of drawing that tag. The hunt is a hard hunt to draw even for residents.
Oregon isnt all bad but we are tough on a lot of things.
 
I believe Arizona is the best F&G with California being the worst. Arizona manages its herds well, people may say that the mule deer hunting sucks, however, I don't think that is a management issue, but a drought/habitat issue. Also, other non-game animals are doing well. They have great hunter communication, i.e. they utilize the internet well, have concise survey information available, have great draw information, have unit by unit hunting information with best areas to hunt. Additionally, they put out a magazine, and a tv show, with pertinent information in each. They have good hunter recruitment and public hunting areas.
Montana also has great information, probably the best web-site available. You can get public and private land maps right on the web-site. You can get hunter statistics and hunt unit information on the hunt planner.
The worst, by far, California. No push for hunter recruitment, very little hunter opportunity, a web-site so cluttered with BS its hard to navigate, no magazine or other communication. No correspondence with Media, very little political clout. A complete failure to show hunting as a management tool, pandering to the liberal and animal welfare people. Very little control over environmentally sensitive areas i.e. no input into Environmental Impact Reports allowing wholesale slaughter of sensitive areas by developers.
I am surprised to hear people so enamored with Wyoming? They have been very behind the times with the web-site and communications. The draw process is confusing and only this year have they started online applications. The proclamations and maps look like they were drawn with a crayon. I don't get it?
 
1. Nevada
2. Wyoming
3. Colorado
4. Idaho
5. New Mexico
6. Montana
7. Utah
8. Arizona
9. Oregon

"One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
 
1st of all I would like to say that this is "FANTASTIC THREAD!!!". There are lifetimes of experience being handed out here.

As far as my picks I'm partial to NM, CO & WY. Two years ago Shootwice and I never would have dreamed that we both would have a 6x6 & a 6x7, each, tagged in the next two years...all thanks to the great state of NM and a lot of luck pulling decent tags. You CANNOT do that in UT, AZ or CO the first two time you put in...you have to wait a lifetime to draw a tag like this in those three states because of their PP systems. I think CO is doing a good job though with the quality of their deer herd and the quantity of their elk herd. And WY seems to be good as well, especially witht their customer service.

Just my 0.02 cents worth.

Grizzly
 
Didn't plan on hunting Oregon this year so I put us both in for a unit seperately for what I thought was the best elk tag in then state instead of for a Preference Point (same thing). If either of us had drawn, I'd have fallen over. But there was 25 tags in the unit and Ore F&G called and said none were going to NR's in the draw, what did I want to do.

Nothing wrong with that picture????????
 

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