BGF about to lose its secrecy?

How Many Years Did This Take Niller?

PEAYDAY Has Got A Little Pull!

It's Already Been Proven!





Vanilla said:
They already lost at the court of appeals. I guess they can go to the Utah Supreme Court, and I’m guessing they’ll try. I don’t foresee a different outcome.
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I'm s bit torn on this one.

Obviously I'm all for BGF just going away, along with DP.

Having said that, BGF does have a point,. We all see the wolf worshippers and how they are. If the "subcontractors" are legit(doubtful considering who hired them), they shouldn't be subject to the harassment the wolf worshippers will
bring their way.

I'm going to have to research the journalism project I guess, but since the journalism project hasn't filed suit against $fw for it's use of public funds, my Spidey sense tells me they are less concerned with public funds, and more concerned with wolf introduction.
 
BGF, here's $5+million to help delist wolves.

BGF, what did you do with the money? We hired some subcontractors. Who are they and what did they do?
We're protecting their identity for safety reasons and what they do is trade secret.

Oh, okay. Let us know if you need some more money.
 
Hey Hossy?

Was It BGF You Initially Supported?

Or Was Is A Different Organization?

hossblur said:
I'm s bit torn on this one.

Obviously I'm all for BGF just going away, along with DP.

Having said that, BGF does have a point,. We all see the wolf worshippers and how they are. If the "subcontractors" are legit(doubtful considering who hired them), they shouldn't be subject to the harassment the wolf worshippers will
bring their way.

I'm going to have to research the journalism project I guess, but since the journalism project hasn't filed suit against $fw for it's use of public funds, my Spidey sense tells me they are less concerned with public funds, and more concerned with wolf introduction.
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No, Bess, I didn't.

.Here's where I possibly differ, and, not strongly.

"Subcontractor"

I'm assuming lobbyist.

But, it could also be a myriad of other buisnesses. Print shops, digital creators, IT professionals, etc, who have no skin in the game one way or the other on wolves, but who undoubtedly would be harassed or worse if their identity was public.

I don't care if BGF and it's ilk disappear, but the radicals on the other side of the wolf issue play scorched earth, and we all know there would be no protection for innocents in their wake.

That's my hesitation. In the vast majority of cases, this is a slam dunk right to know issue. With wolves (cats and bears as well) you are dealing with an unhinged element.
 
Nothing you say is unreasonable, Hoss. However, if one is worried about that, then don’t accept the public money.

The rules with public money are transparency and public accountability. Period. When organizations don’t do it, and our public officials allow them remain under a cloak of secrecy, that’s a problem. There can be no public confidence in that system.
 
Vanilla said:
Nothing you say is unreasonable, Hoss. However, if one is worried about that, then don’t accept the public money.

The rules with public money are transparency and public accountability. Period. When organizations don’t do it, and our public officials allow them remain under a cloak of secrecy, that’s a problem. There can be no public confidence in that system.
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But that's the threat, right?

If you do buisness with a group or person the radicals don't like, the radicals come for you? Regardless of how the buisness is related.

We all know it's just a short time until the wolf war starts here. Putting out a marker for the future has been the wolf warriors game plan.

I looked into the Writer who filed suit. The group he is part of for sure is pretty left wing. I still find it "interesting" they are worried about BGF but haven't been $fw, the monies aren't even close. Maybe it's coincidence, but I don't believe in coincidence.
 
You’ll get no argument from me supporting SFW’s lack of transparency with public funds or the DWR and state that allowed it for so long. You’ll certainly get no argument from me on that!

But this appellate case was only about BGF. And it’s time a little light is shined on their collective a$$ these days. Maybe once the corruption I suspect is involved is brought to light, then certain other individuals will go away as well.
 
I'm pretty sure lots of taxpayer money gets distributed with no public scrutiny. Parts of the military, CIA, FBI, and who knows what other "secret" spending we're involved in. Oversite doesn't always include the public for obvious reasons, as Hoss points out.
 
eelgrass said:
I'm pretty sure lots of taxpayer money gets distributed with no public scrutiny. Parts of the military, CIA, FBI, and who knows what other "secret" spending we're involved in. Oversite doesn't always include the public for obvious reasons, as Hoss points out.
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Yes but this isnt tax money. It’s donations and tag auctions. We can dry their money up, unlike the government.

I don’t give a cent to organizations that are not transparent with their money.
 
txhunter58 said:
Yes but this isnt tax money. It’s donations and tag auctions. We can dry their money up, unlike the government.

I don’t give a cent to organizations that are not transparent with their money.
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If that was the case, I agree but the linked article above states..

"The State of Utah has supported Big Game’s efforts to delist the Canadian Gray Wolf as a protected species by awarding it a grant of $100,000 in 2011 and by entering into two contracts with Big Game through the Department in 2012 and 2017 that collectively totaled $5.1 million."

I assumed that was taxpayer money.
 
txhunter58 said:
Yes but this isnt tax money. It’s donations and tag auctions. We can dry their money up, unlike the government.

I don’t give a cent to organizations that are not transparent with their money.
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I try to base my donations on personal likes and values. I’ve donated to BFG because in the beginning they claimed they were going to keep as many wolves as possible from being moved into Utah and to help get any wolves that wander into Utah on their own removed as quickly as possible. I liked that mission and it fit with my values.

There was criticism in the beginning, and apparently still is, from some individuals. They thought it foolish and even corrupt to pay someone to keep wolves out of Utah…. when there weren’t any even here, except for a wanderer, now and again.

Now….. some 20 years later (give or take a few years)……… Utah still doesn’t have any wolves, accept a wanderer ever now and again.

Based on surround States, such as Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Washington, Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming…….. I believe my and your donations have been very successful, in comparison. I credit BGF and like minded individuals and groups.

I don’t give a rate’s ass about transparency if I’m getting what I want out of the program. And…. As far as I’m concern, I am. They are being paid to keep wolves out of Utah and they have……….

Good enough for me.
 
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It’s absolutely tax dollars the legislature apportions to BGF.

And what the federal laws say about the FBI and federal tax dollars doesn’t really have anything to do with what happens or should happen in Utah under Utah law with Utah tax dollars.
 
2lumpy said:
I don’t give a rate’s ass about transparency if I’m getting what I want out of the program. And…. As far as I’m concern, I am. They are being paid to keep wolves out of Utah and they have……….

Good enough for me.
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I think we might be surprised if we peel back the onion to see if their efforts have made a lick of difference or not.

There was a very interesting exchange between Don Peay and Casey Snider in an appropriations committee hearing that got cut way too short!

Don made some claims about what they’d done and Casey said “Actually, I was there…”

i wish that could have continued before Mr Peay got saved and bailed out by the committee chair.
 
Can We do Anything Anymore Without A F'N COMMITTEE?

Vanilla said:
I think we might be surprised if we peel back the onion to see if their efforts have made a lick of difference or not.

There was a very interesting exchange between Don Peay and Casey Snider in an appropriations committee hearing that got cut way too short!

Don made some claims about what they’d done and Casey said “Actually, I was there…”

i wish that could have continued before Mr Peay got saved and bailed out by the committee chair.
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eelgrass said:
If that was the case, I agree but the linked article above states..

"The State of Utah has supported Big Game’s efforts to delist the Canadian Gray Wolf as a protected species by awarding it a grant of $100,000 in 2011 and by entering into two contracts with Big Game through the Department in 2012 and 2017 that collectively totaled $5.1 million."

I assumed that was taxpayer money.
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I am not so sure. The Utah game and fish seems like they like taking their/our funds, obtained from tag money and other income, and giving it to these organizations. So someone who knows knows more than me speak up. Was this general tax revenue?

With game and fish funds, unlike general taxes, I think we have a shot at getting things changed if enough people get involved. Not necessarily NRs, but it still comes back to donations. If they dry up, they prob can’t continue long term.
 
Vanilla said:
I think we might be surprised if we peel back the onion to see if their efforts have made a lick of difference or not.

There was a very interesting exchange between Don Peay and Casey Snider in an appropriations committee hearing that got cut way too short!

Don made some claims about what they’d done and Casey said “Actually, I was there…”

i wish that could have continued before Mr Peay got saved and bailed out by the committee chair.
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I hear you. Peel all you want, it’s fine with me. All I know is BGF has been funded to keep wolves out of Utah, as much as possible.

Are there wolves in Utah, other than random, transient wolves?

If not……. agreement made and agreement kept. How or why…… not a concern of mine…….BGF could have spent it all on whiskey and Porn Stars, I could care less……. the job has been successful…. we don’t have wolves, the others do.

Maybe they should have hired BGF too.
 
elkassassin said:
Can We do Anything Anymore Without A F'N COMMITTEE?
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Committees is how legislation goes through the public process. If you’d prefer your legislators make policy behind closed doors, I might suggest Moscow or Beijing as a possible new place for your residence.
 
Kinda Like The Committee's We See In The Hunting World!

1 Or 2 Of Them Might Be Hunters!



Vanilla said:
Committees is how legislation goes through the public process. If you’d prefer your legislators make policy behind closed doors, I might suggest Moscow or Beijing as a possible new place for your residence.
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It Won't Be Long & We'll Need A Committee To Decide If We Can Take A Whizz?

Where We Can Take A Whizz!

And How We Can take That Whizz!



Vanilla said:
Committees is how legislation goes through the public process. If you’d prefer your legislators make policy behind closed doors, I might suggest Moscow or Beijing as a possible new place for your residence.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Kinda Like The Committee's We See In The Hunting World!

1 Or 2 Of Them Might Be Hunters!
Click to expand...

You ought to try and get involved for once in your life and learn how all the process works.

It can be really frustrating, but at least you won’t be ignorant about the process anymore. PM me. I’ll connect you to some folks!

Probably the Dems looking to regulate the shiz out of us. I think they’ll be more up your alley.
 
Made Muzzys,Muzzys Again?

You Sure About That?



hossblur said:
It has.

Got rid of bait, thermal, trail cams. Made muzzys, muzzys again

When the right people get on committees then good things happen.

Seems scratching a check to support a special interest group, just meant the interest group prospered
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Did They Make Bows,Bows Again?

Did They Make Standard Rifles,Standard Rifles Again?

I Get It!

Now We Will Study,Maybe Get A Committee Going & Study Taking The Scopes Off Of SmokePoles For 5-10 Years To See If The Deer Herd Comes Back!

After That Fails We Can Move On To The Next Thing/Item That Won't Fix The Herd!
 
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Wait, wasn’t taking scopes off muzzys part of the infamous HELL-RIGHT manifesto?

Now you’re saying it won’t work to fix the mule deer.

Bessy, I can’t keep your contradictions straight! You ought to go work for BGF!
 
I wasn't Against taking High Powered Scopes Off Of SmokePoles If They Had Taken Equally From ALL Weapon Types!

You're Having A Hard Time Comprehending That Aren't You?

But We'll Study This For Several Years & See What Improvements Are Made To The Deer Herd While The Herd Continues To Decline!

Then We'll Go on To BRAIN STORM # 2!





Vanilla said:
Wait, wasn’t taking scopes off muzzys part of the infamous HELL-RIGHT manifesto?

Now you’re saying it won’t work to fix the mule deer.

Bessy, I can’t keep your contradictions straight! You ought to go work for BGF!
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2lumpy said:
I hear you. Peel all you want, it’s fine with me. All I know is BGF has been funded to keep wolves out of Utah, as much as possible.

Are there wolves in Utah, other than random, transient wolves?

If not……. agreement made and agreement kept. How or why…… not a concern of mine…….BGF could have spent it all on whiskey and Porn Stars, I could care less……. the job has been successful…. we don’t have wolves, the others do.

Maybe they should have hired BGF too.
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I hear you too, but if $1M was spent to stop wolves and $4M was spent on porn stars, they will never get my money. And we don’t even have a way to know they actually did anything. Just because wolves aren’t in Utah YET doesn’t mean they are responsible.

We need to see. Don’t know how anyone can argue with that.
 
There's Been A Few Wolves In Utah For Almost Ever!

If They Were Gonna Expand They'd Have Already Done It!

That Wolf That Ventured Down Through The NE Corner Of DRATville Lucked Out & Made It In To Colorado!

It Wasn't As Lucky When It Tried Venturing Back Through!
 
Homer said:
....and the wolf proponent groups are flush with Dark money and I bet a pile of federal money and no one cares to look at their books.....
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Cuz they are giving them what they want. Funny how that works. Mad dogs bite the hand that feeds them…….. someone way smarter than me offered that concept.
 

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